I would agree that the rivalry is more interesting and the fight while big in scale wasn't that cool IMO, Doc Green trained with IF yet he only did 2 moves a kick and a Karate chop to the neck, something any of us can do without any training... Well unless Banner get's saved or turns back into the Hulk he dies lol, which wont happen so he will probably get saved is my guess.

I wouldn't call his dialogue as hilarious as just a hipster spouting half-witted quips.

Well see there in lies the biggest problem. I wouldn't have mind at all if Doc Green was even the weakest Hulk incarnation and that this was established from the start. But Gerry in both the comic and his interviews keeps repeating how this is the most dangerous Hulk, how he is the most powerful Hulk and being on the planet, how he is the most intelligent being on the planet. And where is any of that? I hate when writers lie for obvious marketing purpose and make no mistake Duggan has made promises he hasn't delivered.

The whole thing is also obviously quite rushed because of the whole Secret Wars event, Duggan has 2 issues left and he has to tie all the lose ends and cram in Gammon, Leader, She-Hulk, Avengers, DP and Cap, Doc Greens extremis failing, Lyra and Ross(because we still haven't finished with him obviously) so it's become quite the clusterf@ck.

@thedailybagel Yea i have read it.

@atheistknowledge: my guess is maybe bruce banner will turn to savage hulk or gravage hulk while falling. definitely hulk will save him but the hulk that might save him could be savage hulk. remember the extremis is going off little by little. just saying. lol

@medulaoblaganda: Yea it's certainly a possibility i don't trust solicitations much but we did see Doc Green and Savage Hulk getting pinned down by Maestro in one of the covers. So we will see.

True, the scale of the fight was what I was referring to. Other than that I do agree, it was a very rushed issue and seeing as most of the issue is their fight, it could have been written a lot better. His training with iron fist didn't mean very much also.

In this particular issue his dialogue wasn't great, but overall since his conception I think I find it pretty funny Hulk being so articulate.

I tend not to focus on what writers say, as oppose to what they show in the comics. From reading the comics you can easily tell he isn't on the upper scale compared to his other incarnations. And it makes sense to me, Banner and Hulk aren't in sync, Banner is being blocked out against his will. That sort of psychologic dynamic certainly means he won't be as tough as Gravage or WWH who don't overpower and shut Banner out against his will. Sure Duggan may have said what he said (I don't personally know myself), because he had to hype the issue, he's not a veteran Hulk writer, so as far as he knows Doc Green may be a pretty devastating incarnation. Now the part I agree with you is that his intelligence did get significantly underplayed leading up to this fight, and it was disappointing.

@atheistknowledge: we all need to give red hulk too a credit. he is a power house too, made of both gamma and cosmic radiation. he is a match for hulk you know? but in the end, hulk would win the battle. is this not the same incarnation that effortlessly rip ultron's arm made of pure adamatium? this writer is not consistent with the hulk. over all, i love the fight between both of them. their fight is not over at all. bruce banner cannot die at all, its impossible, because hulk will save is ass. we don't know its gonna be savage hulk or gravage hulk. lets see.

Yea the whole Iron Fist thing was literally a waste of 4 pages, it had no bearing on the outcome nor did it have any cool moves in the fight itself.

I actually like Doc Green as a character it's the other parts of the comic that make it hard for me to continue liking him.

Yea i understand but you see this was at the start of the ark as Gerry Duggan was starting on Hulk as a fresh new writer who is also pretty new to comics in general. So of course i searched everything about him and i wanted to know which direction he was gonna take on the Hulk as well as his background. I still remember many of the things he said like how he loves the Hulk character so much it hurts and that he is almost always his favorite character in any ensemble. And it's also not the interviews or twitter or other blogs but literally in his first issue of Hulk which is issue 5 overall he has Doc Green say how he is the most powerful being on the planet... i hate teasers and hype material like that if it fails to not just deliver but have you think how it might actually be true. Yet you look at couple of Doc Greens showings and you think to yourself what the hell is this guy smoking to say that? Actually an argument can be made how now that he is not being held back by Banner as his "control switch" he can let loose more then ever, but that's neither here nor there. Well like i said he did mention how much he likes Hulk and he did mention he read a lot of his issue, not to mention that it's a part of his job to do research on the character so i really can't see that as an excuse. All in all Doc Green is pretty much a weakling when it comes to Hulk incarnations.

@medulaoblaganda Yea sure except Hulk beat him twice before already and btw he doesn't have cosmic power in him he only had that when he absorbed SS powers and Cosmic Hulk powers. Also the breaking of Ultrons arm is questionable seeing as primary adamantium is indestructible(especially by physical force alone).

So Doc Green presumably has no power amp as he gets angry? Otherwise surely he would have overcome Rulk eventually as Hulk did in previous battles.

Well I for one I gave up on Hulk after issue 2 of the relaunch. Its a sad reflection of the times that so few of us buy the one monthly title which features our favourite character.

Guys, I should stay away from the battle boards for a bit if Hulk is involved, I think it could get a bit messy!!!

@atheistknowledge: hulk even said he was playing possum haha.

@bezza: It's possibly it doesn't seem like Doc Green can get angry much... he says he is full of hatred not anger... though the 2 emotions are so tied together i don't see how it matters but i guess Duggan has other views on it.

It's always messy when Hulk is involved, however no one is really using Doc Green in the battle forums. There are a few threads of him but he almost always loses and nobody makes a case to defend him so people just don't care lol.

@medulaoblaganda yea in their previous fight but in this one he got knocked out.

@atheistknowledge: he got knocked out cold with just one freaking shot from red hulk. savage hulk or gravage hulk won't be knocked out like that.

Get ready Hulk fans. I have a feeling Marvel plans to nerf Hulk into the ground with the relaunch. I hope he doesn't lose to HB in the new movie. If he does take that as a sign of the times. Marvel is trying to shape the comic book world around the movies now.

@bonifidehustla: @atheistknowledge: Well, this issue proves it. We need a new writer on the Hulk series. It seems like the last 5 years every writer since Pak's departure has done everything they can to emasculate the Hulk character and destroy/ignore everything that Greg Pak & Peter David ever done for him. It's like all the comics that have come, and some in particular, have been a slap in the face of Hulk fans.

@atheistknowledge: Yeah, but at least when he was decapitated he began to regrow his entire head back in that very same preview page in the next issue. That's pretty damn impressive. What's not impressive and very insulting is how it happened with Cap's shield. I mean, WTF?! Even Maestro stated that Cap's shield was never a threat to them solely because it would take someone of truly immense power to do any actual damage.

Yeah I know about this but Hulk was a monster in the movies and apparently his tv is getting good ratings. So maybe the movies will do him better justice than this POS writers for Hulk.

@greenscar1990:

Yeah I think Duggan and Waid are best friends. He worships everything Waids did always said Waid's Hulk was fantastic. So he copied him make Doc Green look nice at first then ruined everything.

what preview is this ? Link please!

@mr_winchester:

@greenscar1990 Yea but the decapitation itself shouldn't have happened in the first place... I remember when Hulk and Maestro where fighting with Caps shield and Maestro noted how the shield was never a danger to them because it was wielded by someone like Cap who lacked the strength to harm them with it. And then even when they picked up the shield it took a lot of strength from them just to cut each other. Here it is wielded by a Black Widow stand in, so it's just ridiculous... i mean the same Hulk that is shown here is only the Hulk from his first 6 issues of his book and this same Hulk was no selling Monguls axe...

@atheistknowledge: Yep the decap shouldn't happen to begin with. Marvel writers are terrible at power portrayal. Much worst than DC at it. Guys like Cap and Spidey shouldn't even be able to register any damage on guys like Hulk. Heck Spidey and Cap shouldn't even be able to damage Ironman. For some reason whenever Marvel has multiple heroes in a story, they find the need to bring everybody to the same tier. They can't have the teams segregated into doing different missions to suit their strengths. Instead we have Cap punching and throwing his shield at guys like Thanos and hurting them. It pisses me off and can take me right out of a story.

DC has the same issue but it's not as bad. Though we do have Batgod doing Batkicks and Batpunches on guys like Grodd/DS/Spectre and them actually registering the damage.

@nomar: That is true, mostly because DC is full of heavy hitters in their teams while on Marvel side you have plenty of street level characters with 1-2 powerhouses... so in order for the weaker guys not to be useless the powerhouses either job or they use plot devices and fight weaker enemies.

For instance this is the newest line up for Marvel Avengers.

the only 2 that can be seen as powerhouses here are Thor and Nova, the rest are street level to mid tier... Now i wouldn't mind this if it where new Avengers or west-east coast Avengers or Uncanny Avengers or young Avengers, or whatever but this is the main roster... These are suppose to be Earths mightiest heroes and guys that are suppose to defend Earth from the greatest of cosmic threats... it's just stupid IMO.

@atheistknowledge said:

@mr_winchester:

@greenscar1990 Yea but the decapitation itself shouldn't have happened in the first place... I remember when Hulk and Maestro where fighting with Caps shield and Maestro noted how the shield was never a danger to them because it was wielded by someone like Cap who lacked the strength to harm them with it. And then even when they picked up the shield it took a lot of strength from them just to cut each other. Here it is wielded by a Black Widow stand in, so it's just ridiculous... i mean the same Hulk that is shown here is only the Hulk from his first 6 issues of his book and this same Hulk was no selling Monguls axe...

Agreed. This is just plain F'ing ridiculous! It's getting to the point that I'm really starting to hate Marvel Comics. Honestly, I'm so sick of these gimmicks and misrepresentation of of elite heroes like Hulk & Thor. They should not be treated like this. At all.

Not the best time to be a Hulk fan.

I'm not going to go in on how f*cking ridiculous the whole decapitation ordeal is, I mean, whoever wrote that is a complete dolt and has no understand of the character.

As for the current issue, while I enjoyed the fight, the conclusion made no sense whatsoever. Doc Green was clearly dominating the fight , and yet a few snarky comments got him the boot? How the hell that does that even happen? Albite yes, the fight isn't concluded, since Ross is still at large and Banner is still conscious but seriously...

I honestly can't wait for Peter Davids Future Imperfect. If his writing in Spider-man 2099 served as an example for anything, it's that he can write one fantastic and mean Maestro/Hulk. I mean, the man has still got it. The dialogue, the fighting, the characterization, and the humor are all woven together perfectly. He managed to do so much more in two issues than a lot of writers today can even think about doing in five or more.

@theacidskull: that's what I was confused about. Doc green had the fight under control the whole time but decided to make ross angry? DAFUQ.

Im genuinely worried about what they're gonna do with hulk after the reboot. he just gets so many low showings from dopey writers that don't know a thing about him.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with most of the posters and thought Hulk 14 was fantastic. Had a great fight with decent feats (punching into another state, fight in AZ felt in NY), good dialogue, funny parts with Deadpool (breaking 4th wall again), confirmation of previous fight being thrown, and Banner is back.

Rulk has always been a Hulk equal, so I was not surprised him not getting stomped to holy hell, rather putting up a good fight, especially since Doc Green seemed to want to draw the fight out to lecture him. I don't think for a minute Rulk "won", Doc wasn't KO'd, that last punch just jostled Banner free, that’s why he changed.

@green_skaar: I agree with you in all honesty, on most things anyway. I regularly say in the battle forums that rulk is near enough hulks equal, and he proved that once again. Sure, he was stomped by greenscar by that guy was ridiculously overpowered.

But I did think it was odd how he literally punched the hulk out of banner, I mean doc green seemed in control of the fight and I don't think I've ever seen that happen before (the banner thing I mean).

Im just pumped for the next issue.

How are your thoughts on duggans run so far?

@green_skaar: I see your point of view. And all of us have opinions on this and doesn't mean any of us are any more wrong or right with our opinions, so i agree i can see why you liked the issue. With that said you can't say that the training with Iron Fist went anywhere... i mean you can say he can still do more of it but if his best moves are doing a simple kick and Karate chopping someone in the neck things my 4 year old nephew can do i don't think i care to see more. Also Ross definitely won, he knocked Doc Green out and he reverted to Banner. Doc Green can come back but it doesn't change the fact that he was temporarily KO'd.

What comic did the decap occur in? I haven't been reading many current titles recently..... unbelievable crimes against Hulk are occurring at the moment. Marvel Comics must really hate the character. At least the films are doing him justice.

@bezza: I hope that statement can remain true come AoU.

Over all I"m entertained. Doc Green hasn't really had any "high showings" however that's to be expected considering he's only been angry once, and briefly at that. His cunning/intelligence has certainly been showcased but I still don't think we've seen the full extent of what he's planning/scheming towards so withholding judgement until this arc is completed. I love the idea of Doc Green, but I"m not sure if we just saw the end of him?!?!?

Of course it's all opinions, no one is right or wrong, and didn't mean to suggest that. Doc Green did showcase some of the Iron Fist training as you indicated, however I wouldn't expect him to be a ninja after presumably one training session. Maybe with time we will see a more focused Hulk, similar to Green Scar with the Shadow Priest training. I disagree Ross won, I don't think Doc Green was KO'd, he was making noise and eyes open, he reverted to Banner because his brain was jostled so violently Banner was finally "released".

@green_skaar: you sir are a bad ass. you just nailed it. lol

@green_skaar:Of course it's all opinions, no one is right or wrong, and didn't mean to suggest that. Doc Green did showcase some of the Iron Fist training as you indicated, however I wouldn't expect him to be a ninja after presumably one training session. Maybe with time we will see a more focused Hulk, similar to Green Scar with the Shadow Priest training. I disagree Ross won, I don't think Doc Green was KO'd, he was making noise and eyes open, he reverted to Banner because his brain was jostled so violently Banner was finally "released".

why the hell are you so smart? i freaking agree with what you said. good job bro!! am with you on this one. lol

Yes i was just agreeing. Well a kick and a Karate chop to the neck are hardly anything Hulk couldn't have done so before if he wanted to. No i wasn't expecting him to do back flips and roundhouse kicks either, but more of the standard controlling his opponent and using their weight against them to throw them around or just throw them off their balance. Well that's what a KO is... i mean if Hulk was angry he can't forcefully revert to Banner unless someone KO's the Hulk himself and i don't know where you see Hulks eyes are open we can't even see his face we just see his thought bubble "hehn." which is a sound you usually hear when someone is KO'd. You are kinda going at a backwards route here Banner isn't the one that get's released through violence, it's kinda the opposite so him coming out now as Doc Green is having the biggest fight of his existence makes no sense unless Ross forced Banner out of him.

Fair enough, we obviously interpret the events differently, no biggie. I still think it's a great individual issue. I agree that I'd like to see Doc Green exhibit his strength AND intelligence in a more definitive manner.

Off topic a little, but has anyone been keeping up with the current avengers comic? During the war with the builders, does hulk actually do anything?

@green_skaar: Yep, personally i had too many problems with it to find the issue to be great. The location made no sense because both Hulk and Rulk can absorb gamma not just Rulk, the bullet was also not needed it just adds to the fact that Doc Green can't beat Rulk on his own, the fight was kinda meh... i mean i was expecting more than what i saw and shaking America as they fight is not gonna knock me out of my chair considering the kinds of quakes Hulk has caused on his own and Docs training went nowhere. I am just telling you all this so you know that Doc Green losing was not my only problem with the issue... i mean if it was just that it could have still been a good issue but i had too much problems with everything. The only thing i can honestly say i enjoyed was DP breaking the 4th wall and the banter between Doc and Ross.

Not really. I pull anything with Hulk in it, most excited about Spiderman 2099 where Maestro is present, however he wasn't in last issue :(

Keep in mind Doc Green wasn't angry, in fact he's only gotten angry once. He wasn't letting lose, I'd love to see him go "all out" and show what's he's fully capable of.

@green_skaar: I heard somewhere that he destroyed a builder ship.

And that's what I keep waiting for, I just want to see doc green cut loose for once.

@green_skaar: @thedailybagel: He does nothing in the Avengers comic which is one of the gripes i mentioned i had with Marvel, them not utilizing their characters properly. Hickman doesn't give a damn about the Doc Green persona which is a shame because you have a guy that is smarter then Banner. Also Maestro is no longer in Spiderman 2099 because he went through the portal Doom made and is now currently on Marvel 616 Earth if i am not mistaken.

@green_skaarYea he said he was full of hate, which i don't understand how it's much different then anger, but i guess Duggan thinks differently. That's kinda the running theme throughout the entire Omega story... Doc Green holds back and is way too calm for a Hulk... it's so strange watching Hulk without his rage.

@atheistknowledge: Like I've said before, Marvel & writers need to exploit the Hulk/Doc Green's rage and savagery. Intellect in battle alone is useless. That's why we need a version of the Hulk who is a warrior, both in mind and body. A being who is superior in intellect & power, who can make villains like Dr. Doom & Thanos uneasy and feel very threatened. A kind of being who can take on the biggest foes/threats in the Marvel Universe/Multiverse/Omniverse. A powerful, cunning, intelligent, incredible, indestructible, raging, gamma-powered titan warrior.

Could you imagine a version of Hulk who is not only one of the most intelligent beings in the Marvel Universe, but also one of the most powerful? That's the potential that Doc Green had. Keyword being: had.

Unfortunately, Duggan & Marvel have thus far greatly wasted it. We could have had a Hulk who had all the power of the Green Scar persona and an intellect to rival the greatest minds in the Marvel Universe. Instead, what we got is more or less Merged/Professor Hulk lite... without the coolness and charismatic attitude that that particular incarnation has. That pretty much sums up Doc Green.

We need the Hulk to become a warrior again. He needs the mind of a warrior. Let Banner have the mind of a scientist. And let Hulk be a warrior hero... let him be the Strongest One there is.

Well Doc Green had potential at the beginning of this arc most of us thought Doc Green would turn into Maestro. Hell thats why he grew a beard. So unless he turns into Maestro or something i will be happy.

@theacidskull: BTW Acid no plans for a Hulk #14 review?

I will get to it tomorrow or the day after :)

Been a bit Busy.

@theacidskull: Alright mate take your time... it's kind of a sad time for Hulk comics when i am more looking forward to your reviews than the actual issues...

Thanks for the compliment bud :)

And the blame goes to Marvel and its current writers. It would seem like they can't get enough of tarnishing the Hulk and his history. It just seems that some people in Marvel, including certain writers, are hellbent on ruining everything that great writers like Greg Pak & Peter David have done with Hulk/Banner. Not to mention the attempt to get rid of the few Hulks who are actually unique and possess infinite potential that differentiates them from Hulk/Banner like: Skaar, She-Hulk, and Lyra (Red She-Hulk & A-Bomb I can take or leave, but Red Hulk needs to disappear forever).

Take the upcoming Secret Wars: Planet Hulk series.

It could have been something truly great. Imagine if in some alternate universe, Hulk & Caiera returned to Earth and conquered it. Then, once that was accomplished, they begin to set out and conquer/unite all the races in their universe under their rule. An galactic/universal empire in which Hulk & Caiera reign as benevolent rulers until the end of time, raising their sons Hiro & Skaar while maintaining peace. Then, they suddenly find themselves to be apart of Battleworld.

Now, that would have been a lot more faithful and respectful to Greg Pak's incredible saga.

Instead, what we're getting is basically a landmass that was part of a world inhabited by Hulks of all different kinds. No real connection to Greg Pak's saga whatsoever. And the biggest slap in the face? Hulk isn't even the main character! It's freaking Captain Rogers & Devil Dinosaur!

So much potential wasted.

I swear, if it wasn't for PAD's Secret Wars: Future Imperfect series, we wouldn't have any decent Hulk series to read.

@atheistknowledge: You know I was re-reading the latest issue this morning and I realized that there is not enough material to review it. Most of what I will say, or was going to say would or may be contradicted in the following issue. The fight is technically still on, since we all know Banner has to Hulk out right before he lands to his death. The only thing we know for certain is that Doc Green lost for a temporary time, and I don't want to be making assumptions before something happens.

So I'll wait for the latest issue and then ponder on the whole package.

@bezza: @atheistknowledge: @theacidskull: Remember this little gem?

A short story.

Fear Itself: The Worthy #5

Written by none other than Greg Pak.

Ah, I miss when Hulk comics were this good.

@theacidskull: You know i agree with that entirely. There is not much to talk about and the fight is far from over even though Hulk was temporarily KO'd so things could change massively in the next issue and rectify the problems we have.

@greenscar1990: Yea it's a shame honestly... Planet Hulk with main characters Steve Rogers and Devil Dinosaur.... Doc Green is basically the supporting cast there and he is the worst Hulk you can pick for this....

Thx for sharing that video though, it's awesome to see anything from Greg Pak.. he understands the character so much.

For my sins, I hadn't previously read "fear itself" - but Grek Pak was such a great Hulk writer....Planet Hulk is just an awesome book. It was the first graphic novel I bought after 28 years away from buying comics and It left a huge impression on me, how someone could write such a heart rendering tale involving a green monster and only the briefest appearance by Banner.

WWH wasn't as good IMO, but still a smashing story and one that finally proved to any doubters that Hulk could take it to the DC powerhouses if ever they were to meet!

Current state of Hulk comics is the worst I can remember it. I wasn't buying in the early naughties under Bruce Jones so only some of you guys can tell me if those stories were as bad!

I have read a LOT of hulk content and without a doubt this run or this age of Hulk is really the worst. I mean, indestructible Hulk wasn't that bad compared to the weak Doc Green. The character is boring, the jokes fall very flat and Doc Green is just weak. He whines after every punches he gets. It is really heart breaking to see such a popular and strong character looking like an idiot in the recent comics. He acts like a jerk and gets thrown around like garbage. It is really the WORST I have seen in Hulk comics in a LONG time. Even Aaron's Hulk kept me interested. It was a bit stupid but we had a psycholigical conflict that made it a bit interesting. The current Hulk is not that smart (or at least we haven't seen an exemple of a really smart hulk), not that strong (he gets thrown around or whines at every punches) I mean in the last 14 issues if I asked you to sum it up what would you say. All I have to say is he depowered the other Hulks in mediocre fights. That is ALL there was in the last 14 issues. filler and boring fights. Everything in the whole run falls flat. Take Skaar's depowering, he just sends him off as a kid and it's over. Look at the doc green AI... meh boring fight. The iron fist training, good idea ! Uses it agaisn't Red Hulk... another let down. The whole series is just boring. Everything that happens is weak just like doc green.