Lucifer (Supernatural) vs Morgoth (Lotr)

@hermankeson said:

@kingkronos said:

@xan84 said:

@kingkronos Just because nobody killed him in that universe it does not mean it can't be done. It just means he never had to fight nobody strong enough to do it. @stonerthps You have other ways to kill Michael then Archangel baldes. Also of coruse God could kill him. That black goo from Levy can kill angels, Death can kill them, God Castiel can snap his fingers and they go boom.

I swear these supernatural wankers drive me crazy. Just look at the above posts, lucifer can't be killed with a galaxt bust attack, god can't kill lucifer, pagan gods are powerful,............... God what next?

An Omniuniversal attack can't kill Lucifer as he is not from this part of creation, he only appears on earth using a vessel, his true form is beyond comprehension by anything that wasn't created in heaven.

Buddy can't you read? I told you thousands of times that Morgoth also has an essence that could not be destroyed even by GOD.

Lucifer can be killed permenantly by the archangels blade which can be used by A MORTAL. Same way like dean kills Zach.

@kingkronos "And what can archangels do?" Create entire dimensions with suns, moons, planets, stars and what not. Gabriel demonstrated that more then once... Even Castiel who is just a Angel is the size of a skyscraper in reality.

@hermankeson said:

@kingkronos said:

@xan84 said:

@kingkronos A galaxy busting attack can't kill Lucifer as that is a physical explosion. His vessel would be anihilated but his "soul" (or whatever you whant to call it) would not be harmed as it is imaterial. Then he can just recreate the vessel. It would be like trying to shoot the wind. It just does not work.

Don't you listen? Morgoth has also as essence that can never die. There is literally no way of killing him, to defeat him the Valar imprisoned him.

On the other hand lucifer can be killed permenantly by the arch-blade.

Also you seem to ignore morgoth's feat that he destroys the sun and the moon. Tell me, does lucifer has something even close to that?

He doesn't in the series as he has been imprisoned in hell for a very long time, and just as he got powerful enough to rule the universe, he got imprisoned again. But honestly don't you notice the similarities Morgoth was even based on Lucifer.. And there is no proof that the archangel blade could even kill Lucifer, but It could probably kill Morgoth.

Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of the Nightout of the Timeless Void; and he shall destroy the Sun and the Moon. But Eärendil shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day, Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eonwe, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, coming from the halls of Mandos; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Húrin and all Men be avenged.

Yeah trying to low ball melkor, wouldn't work.

The archangel blade can kill any angel so there is proof, while there is no proof it can kill Morgoth. Stop doing that just stop........

Also Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Archangels.

Varda can create constellations (thousands of stars).

Aule can create the sun.

And what can archangels do?

Lucifer stomps, please lock this thread.

@kingkronos said:

@xan84 said:

@kingkronos A galaxy busting attack can't kill Lucifer as that is a physical explosion. His vessel would be anihilated but his "soul" (or whatever you whant to call it) would not be harmed as it is imaterial. Then he can just recreate the vessel. It would be like trying to shoot the wind. It just does not work.

Don't you listen? Morgoth has also as essence that can never die. There is literally no way of killing him, to defeat him the Valar imprisoned him.

On the other hand lucifer can be killed permenantly by the arch-blade.

Also you seem to ignore morgoth's feat that he destroys the sun and the moon. Tell me, does lucifer has something even close to that?

Snapping his neck is more than enough.

@xan84 said:

@kingkronos "And what can archangels do?" Create entire dimensions with suns, moons, planets, stars and what not. Gabriel demonstrated that more then once... Even Castiel who is just a Angel is the size of a skyscraper in reality.

Proof to me that it was a dimension with suns, moonns stars..... But I know better your just wanking. So stop trolling and don't reply to me after you give me concrete proof

@stonerthps said:

@kingkronos said:

@hermankeson said:

@kingkronos said:

@xan84 said:

@kingkronos A galaxy busting attack can't kill Lucifer as that is a physical explosion. His vessel would be anihilated but his "soul" (or whatever you whant to call it) would not be harmed as it is imaterial. Then he can just recreate the vessel. It would be like trying to shoot the wind. It just does not work.

Don't you listen? Morgoth has also as essence that can never die. There is literally no way of killing him, to defeat him the Valar imprisoned him.

On the other hand lucifer can be killed permenantly by the arch-blade.

Also you seem to ignore morgoth's feat that he destroys the sun and the moon. Tell me, does lucifer has something even close to that?

He doesn't in the series as he has been imprisoned in hell for a very long time, and just as he got powerful enough to rule the universe, he got imprisoned again. But honestly don't you notice the similarities Morgoth was even based on Lucifer.. And there is no proof that the archangel blade could even kill Lucifer, but It could probably kill Morgoth.

Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of the Nightout of the Timeless Void; and he shall destroy the Sun and the Moon. But Eärendil shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day, Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eonwe, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, coming from the halls of Mandos; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Húrin and all Men be avenged.

Yeah trying to low ball melkor, wouldn't work.

The archangel blade can kill any angel so there is proof, while there is no proof it can kill Morgoth. Stop doing that just stop........

Also Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Archangels.

Varda can create constellations (thousands of stars).

Aule can create the sun.

And what can archangels do?

Create anything they want? Talk to God. God's voice kills everything in their universe. Control time. Create alternate realities. Just the tip of the ice burg. So what you are trying to argue is that because in that universe there are many gods that create everything and this guy can kill off some of them that he is greater than Lucifer who in his Universe has one god that created everything and he is 3rd powerful in ranks. Without the archangel blade morgoth isn't winning this fight.

Eru= God. You see you don't know anything about Lotr and you come barging here and say lucifer wins. Yet you don't know that morgoth is only below God himself, he who created everything.

God in supernatural is even weak, he will die. And you call him GOD.

Eru can also kill everyone in the univers and control time and create realities.

@kingkronos said:

@stonerthps said:

@kingkronos said:

@hermankeson said:

@kingkronos said:

@xan84 said:

@kingkronos A galaxy busting attack can't kill Lucifer as that is a physical explosion. His vessel would be anihilated but his "soul" (or whatever you whant to call it) would not be harmed as it is imaterial. Then he can just recreate the vessel. It would be like trying to shoot the wind. It just does not work.

Don't you listen? Morgoth has also as essence that can never die. There is literally no way of killing him, to defeat him the Valar imprisoned him.

On the other hand lucifer can be killed permenantly by the arch-blade.

Also you seem to ignore morgoth's feat that he destroys the sun and the moon. Tell me, does lucifer has something even close to that?

He doesn't in the series as he has been imprisoned in hell for a very long time, and just as he got powerful enough to rule the universe, he got imprisoned again. But honestly don't you notice the similarities Morgoth was even based on Lucifer.. And there is no proof that the archangel blade could even kill Lucifer, but It could probably kill Morgoth.

Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of the Nightout of the Timeless Void; and he shall destroy the Sun and the Moon. But Eärendil shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day, Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eonwe, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, coming from the halls of Mandos; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Húrin and all Men be avenged.

Yeah trying to low ball melkor, wouldn't work.

The archangel blade can kill any angel so there is proof, while there is no proof it can kill Morgoth. Stop doing that just stop........

Also Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Archangels.

Varda can create constellations (thousands of stars).

Aule can create the sun.

And what can archangels do?

Create anything they want? Talk to God. God's voice kills everything in their universe. Control time. Create alternate realities. Just the tip of the ice burg. So what you are trying to argue is that because in that universe there are many gods that create everything and this guy can kill off some of them that he is greater than Lucifer who in his Universe has one god that created everything and he is 3rd powerful in ranks. Without the archangel blade morgoth isn't winning this fight.

Eru= God. You see you don't know anything about Lotr and you come barging here and say lucifer wins. Yet you don't know that morgoth is only below God himself, he who created everything.

God in supernatural is even weak, he will die. And you call him GOD.

Eru can also kill everyone in the univers and control time and create realities.

He wont die, and we don't even know what death means for him, the series hasn't ended yet so we wont know what will happen. God in supernatural is same God as in the bible, he created creation. Everything in existence he made.

@hermankeson said:

@kingkronos said:

@stonerthps said:

@kingkronos said:

@hermankeson said:

@kingkronos said:

@xan84 said:

@kingkronos A galaxy busting attack can't kill Lucifer as that is a physical explosion. His vessel would be anihilated but his "soul" (or whatever you whant to call it) would not be harmed as it is imaterial. Then he can just recreate the vessel. It would be like trying to shoot the wind. It just does not work.

Don't you listen? Morgoth has also as essence that can never die. There is literally no way of killing him, to defeat him the Valar imprisoned him.

On the other hand lucifer can be killed permenantly by the arch-blade.

Also you seem to ignore morgoth's feat that he destroys the sun and the moon. Tell me, does lucifer has something even close to that?

He doesn't in the series as he has been imprisoned in hell for a very long time, and just as he got powerful enough to rule the universe, he got imprisoned again. But honestly don't you notice the similarities Morgoth was even based on Lucifer.. And there is no proof that the archangel blade could even kill Lucifer, but It could probably kill Morgoth.

Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of the Nightout of the Timeless Void; and he shall destroy the Sun and the Moon. But Eärendil shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day, Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eonwe, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, coming from the halls of Mandos; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Húrin and all Men be avenged.

Yeah trying to low ball melkor, wouldn't work.

The archangel blade can kill any angel so there is proof, while there is no proof it can kill Morgoth. Stop doing that just stop........

Also Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Archangels.

Varda can create constellations (thousands of stars).

Aule can create the sun.

And what can archangels do?

Create anything they want? Talk to God. God's voice kills everything in their universe. Control time. Create alternate realities. Just the tip of the ice burg. So what you are trying to argue is that because in that universe there are many gods that create everything and this guy can kill off some of them that he is greater than Lucifer who in his Universe has one god that created everything and he is 3rd powerful in ranks. Without the archangel blade morgoth isn't winning this fight.

Eru= God. You see you don't know anything about Lotr and you come barging here and say lucifer wins. Yet you don't know that morgoth is only below God himself, he who created everything.

God in supernatural is even weak, he will die. And you call him GOD.

Eru can also kill everyone in the univers and control time and create realities.

He wont die, and we don't even know what death means for him, the series hasn't ended yet so we wont know what will happen. God in supernatural is same God as in the bible, he created creation. Everything in existence he made.

And Eru=God. And morgoth is only below GOD. And he is from a race that are more powerful than archangels, he will devour the sun and moon, his hammer can shatter the earth. Just please give me one thing lucifer is superior at......

The Supernatural Pagan Gods being killed so easily by Lucifer is only a testament to his power. Normally, those gods can only be killed by certain objects, like when Sam and Dean had to use the special branch to kill the Christmas couple. Lucifer simply bypassed that and killed them. And, these gods arent as weak as you keep sprouting off. The Christmas couple could manipulate the weather, Hermes could move faster than the eye could see, Chronos could manipulate time, Tricksters can warp reality, and so on. Stop lowballing. 

@buttersdaman000 said:

The Supernatural Pagan Gods being killed so easily by Lucifer is only a testament to his power. Normally, those gods can only be killed by certain objects, like when Sam and Dean had to use the special branch to kill the Christmas couple. Lucifer simply bypassed that and killed them. And, these gods arent as weak as you keep sprouting off. The Christmas couple could manipulate the weather, Hermes could move faster than the eye could see, Chronos could manipulate time, Tricksters can warp reality, and so on. Stop lowballing.

And lucifer killed them them by sticking his hand in thier bodies. Gods are on a very different level from that. First they can't be killed. Kali was throwing lamps. They didn't even have range attacks to start with. If they had even a puny little range attack they would have used it, but they are weak as hell. So stop making them sound like they are something more than a bunch of mortals.

And since you are in this thread, tell me does lucifer has a better feat than destroying the sun. I know lucifer and michael's battle will destroy the earth, and lucifer would die. But morgoth would escape from the TIMELESS VOID AND DESTROY THE SUN AND MOON.

I don't know anything about the supernatural series? Does anyone have some things that lucifier did in it?

@xan84 said:

Even if he has a weapon to blow up the planet only Lucifer's vessel would be harmed, then Lucifer would just reform it... Hell go with Galaxy busting levels... Only the vessel would be effected and Lucifer can reform that... Also Michael would kill Lucifer as Michael has an Archangel blade obviously.

You can't kill Morgoth even by blowing up the galaxy lol

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos: Lowballing.....again Lucifer would never purposely destroy any of Gods creation. So no, he doesnt have a 'better' feat. But tell me, did Morgoth actually do this or is he just 'destined' to?? And how does even doing so effect the outcome of a battle with a being that resides on a much higher plane of existence??

Tell me did lucifer actually destroyed eath or is he "destined" to do that........

Just please stop, you are not making any sense hear. I will ask you one last time does lucifer has a better feat? Don't deny the answer

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos: Lowballing.....again Lucifer would never purposely destroy any of Gods creation. So no, he doesnt have a 'better' feat. But tell me, did Morgoth actually do this or is he just 'destined' to?? And how does even doing so effect the outcome of a battle with a being that resides on a much higher plane of existence??

WTF???

morgoth seems more powerful than lucifer, morgoth was going to destroy the sun and the moon while lucifer was going to be killed in a battle that will destroy the earth so i dont see how you can compare these two, and really i rewatched that fight lucifer vs pagan gods it was completely unimpressive i mean really lets speak the truth here these pagan gods do we have any prove that they are powerful? just ask yourself that and you will answer it yourself. the most impressive feat was kali(the so called universal destroyer) conjuring some random pyrokinesis and so what? the way i see it lucifer walked into a bar and killed some low level magic users (though some didnt even show any magic) not some gods. gods usually do not fight in hotels you see they fight worldwide or more unlike in supernatural

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos: Lowballing.....again Lucifer would never purposely destroy any of Gods creation. So no, he doesnt have a 'better' feat. But tell me, did Morgoth actually do this or is he just 'destined' to?? And how does even doing so effect the outcome of a battle with a being that resides on a much higher plane of existence??

WTF???

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos: Lowballing.....again Lucifer would never purposely destroy any of Gods creation. So no, he doesnt have a 'better' feat. But tell me, did Morgoth actually do this or is he just 'destined' to?? And how does even doing so effect the outcome of a battle with a being that resides on a much higher plane of existence??

Tell me did lucifer actually destroyed eath or is he "destined" to do that........

Just please stop, you are not making any sense hear. I will ask you one last time does lucifer has a better feat? Don't deny the answer

@buttersdaman000: well if you are not bringing up lucifer's feat of destroying the earth then im sorry to say that he is featless

@buttersdaman000 said:

@bluepride1234: All angels/archangels have similar powers. IIRC, in the show, Lucifer has displayed:

- Telekenisis can he crush mountains and raise them just by thinking with telekinesis just like morgoth?

- Super Strength Morgoth stepped on Finfolfin with the wieght of a falling hill......... You call lucifer has super strength.

- Teleportation Morgoth can do that. He even can summon his entire army within seconds.

- Regeneration yeah................ morgoth has that

- Dream Manipulation very impressive...................... except morgoth can corrupt Maia(race of demigods and turn them to Balrogs.)

- Weather Manipulation Yeah................... Morgoth's mere presence changes weather

His Archangel/Angel brethren have shown:

- Time Travel/ Time Manipulation- can't comment

Ressurection - Morgoth has necromancy

Pyrokenisis/ Terrakenisis/Electrokenisis- Well, morgoth's mace has lightning powers and can shatter the earth...........

Reality Warping - Can alter the physical substance of the world with mere effort of his will (crushes mountains, creates them and creates fortresses within seconds)

Telepathy - Corrupts Maia gods

Invisibility - Morgoth can shapeshift

And more

As you can see morgoth bests lucifer in every way.. He can create dragons, balrogs, terrifying creatures not some random demons.......... So you now tell me who bests who?

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos said:

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos: Lowballing.....again Lucifer would never purposely destroy any of Gods creation. So no, he doesnt have a 'better' feat. But tell me, did Morgoth actually do this or is he just 'destined' to?? And how does even doing so effect the outcome of a battle with a being that resides on a much higher plane of existence??

WTF???

What? Do I have to spell it out for you? Heaven is a higher plane of existence, not bound by the physical limits of our existence. That is where Angels reside. In the show it was hinted that Archangels reside in an even higher plane.
smdh.......
@kingkronos said:

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos: Lowballing.....again Lucifer would never purposely destroy any of Gods creation. So no, he doesnt have a 'better' feat. But tell me, did Morgoth actually do this or is he just 'destined' to?? And how does even doing so effect the outcome of a battle with a being that resides on a much higher plane of existence??

Tell me did lucifer actually destroyed eath or is he "destined" to do that........

Just please stop, you are not making any sense hear. I will ask you one last time does lucifer has a better feat? Don't deny the answer

You completely missed my point......I never even used the 'destruction of the earth' as a feat. You brought that up. Ill explain what I meant for you: Did Morgoth ever destroy the Sun or Moon in the books, or is it just written that he will? If he never did then it isnt a feat.....because well....he never did it.

And valar can reside in the timeless halls beyond existence and time and space.................... Mortals go to heavens in supernatural where even they can reality warp.

Stating that morgoth will escape the timeless void and destroy the sun and moon (on his way) and seek revenge, he is capable of that. It was stated by tolkien himself.... Nice try to low ball morgoth

@buttersdaman000 said:

@bluepride1234: All angels/archangels have similar powers. IIRC, in the show, Lucifer has displayed:

- Telekenisis can he crush mountains and raise them just by thinking with telekinesis just like morgoth?

- Super Strength Morgoth stepped on Finfolfin with the wieght of a falling hill......... You call lucifer has super strength.

- Teleportation Morgoth can do that. He even can summon his entire army within seconds.

- Regeneration yeah................ morgoth has that

- Dream Manipulation very impressive...................... except morgoth can corrupt Maia(race of demigods and turn them to Balrogs.)

- Weather Manipulation Yeah................... Morgoth's mere presence changes weather

His Archangel/Angel brethren have shown:

- Time Travel/ Time Manipulation- can't comment

Ressurection - Morgoth has necromancy

Pyrokenisis/ Terrakenisis/Electrokenisis- Well, morgoth's mace has lightning powers and can shatter the earth...........

Reality Warping - Can alter the physical substance of the world with mere effort of his will (crushes mountains, creates them and creates fortresses within seconds)

Telepathy - Corrupts Maia gods

Invisibility - Morgoth can shapeshift

And more

As you can see morgoth bests lucifer in every way.. He can create dragons, balrogs, terrifying creatures not some random demons.......... So you now tell me who bests who?

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos said:

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos: Lowballing.....again Lucifer would never purposely destroy any of Gods creation. So no, he doesnt have a 'better' feat. But tell me, did Morgoth actually do this or is he just 'destined' to?? And how does even doing so effect the outcome of a battle with a being that resides on a much higher plane of existence??

WTF???

What? Do I have to spell it out for you? Heaven is a higher plane of existence, not bound by the physical limits of our existence. That is where Angels reside. In the show it was hinted that Archangels reside in an even higher plane.
smdh.......
@kingkronos said:

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos: Lowballing.....again Lucifer would never purposely destroy any of Gods creation. So no, he doesnt have a 'better' feat. But tell me, did Morgoth actually do this or is he just 'destined' to?? And how does even doing so effect the outcome of a battle with a being that resides on a much higher plane of existence??

Tell me did lucifer actually destroyed eath or is he "destined" to do that........

Just please stop, you are not making any sense hear. I will ask you one last time does lucifer has a better feat? Don't deny the answer

You completely missed my point......I never even used the 'destruction of the earth' as a feat. You brought that up. Ill explain what I meant for you: Did Morgoth ever destroy the Sun or Moon in the books, or is it just written that he will? If he never did then it isnt a feat.....because well....he never did it.

And valar can reside in the timeless halls beyond existence and time and space.................... Mortals go to heavens in supernatural where even they can reality warp.

Stating that morgoth will escape the timeless void and destroy the sun and moon (on his way) and seek revenge, he is capable of that. It was stated by tolkien himself.... Nice try to low ball morgoth

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos said:

@buttersdaman000 said:

@bluepride1234: All angels/archangels have similar powers. IIRC, in the show, Lucifer has displayed:

- Telekenisis can he crush mountains and raise them just by thinking with telekinesis just like morgoth?

- Super Strength Morgoth stepped on Finfolfin with the wieght of a falling hill......... You call lucifer has super strength.

- Teleportation Morgoth can do that. He even can summon his entire army within seconds.

- Regeneration yeah................ morgoth has that

- Dream Manipulation very impressive...................... except morgoth can corrupt Maia(race of demigods and turn them to Balrogs.)

- Weather Manipulation Yeah................... Morgoth's mere presence changes weather

His Archangel/Angel brethren have shown:

- Time Travel/ Time Manipulation- can't comment

Ressurection - Morgoth has necromancy

Pyrokenisis/ Terrakenisis/Electrokenisis- Well, morgoth's mace has lightning powers and can shatter the earth...........

Reality Warping - Can alter the physical substance of the world with mere effort of his will (crushes mountains, creates them and creates fortresses within seconds)

Telepathy - Corrupts Maia gods

Invisibility - Morgoth can shapeshift

And more

As you can see morgoth bests lucifer in every way.. He can create dragons, balrogs, terrifying creatures not some random demons.......... So you now tell me who bests who?

What? Im pretty sure these are all the same feats you used in your last hate battle? So, whats the deal? You gotta be lying about one of these characters....or what?
But anyways....I like how youre giving me physical feats. As was said before many times, they dont matter. SO great, he has better physical feats.
- If it takes seconds, the teleportation really isnt that great......
- Lucifer created demons
- Lucifers presence does the same: Brings on massive earthquakes, hurricanes and more
- yeah
- Lucifer can bind death itself (and please dont bring up sam and dean again)
- What? I thought Sauron had the mace?
- Really doesnt seem like reality warping and im pretty sure you used that for teleportation in the last battle....and again, isnt that saurons feat?
- Not telepathy
- So can Lucifer@kingkronos said:

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos said:

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos: Lowballing.....again Lucifer would never purposely destroy any of Gods creation. So no, he doesnt have a 'better' feat. But tell me, did Morgoth actually do this or is he just 'destined' to?? And how does even doing so effect the outcome of a battle with a being that resides on a much higher plane of existence??

WTF???

What? Do I have to spell it out for you? Heaven is a higher plane of existence, not bound by the physical limits of our existence. That is where Angels reside. In the show it was hinted that Archangels reside in an even higher plane.
smdh.......
@kingkronos said:

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos: Lowballing.....again Lucifer would never purposely destroy any of Gods creation. So no, he doesnt have a 'better' feat. But tell me, did Morgoth actually do this or is he just 'destined' to?? And how does even doing so effect the outcome of a battle with a being that resides on a much higher plane of existence??

Tell me did lucifer actually destroyed eath or is he "destined" to do that........

Just please stop, you are not making any sense hear. I will ask you one last time does lucifer has a better feat? Don't deny the answer

You completely missed my point......I never even used the 'destruction of the earth' as a feat. You brought that up. Ill explain what I meant for you: Did Morgoth ever destroy the Sun or Moon in the books, or is it just written that he will? If he never did then it isnt a feat.....because well....he never did it.

And valar can reside in the timeless halls beyond existence and time and space.................... Mortals go to heavens in supernatural where even they can reality warp.

Stating that morgoth will escape the timeless void and destroy the sun and moon (on his way) and seek revenge, he is capable of that. It was stated by tolkien himself.... Nice try to low ball morgoth

I have no clue what youre trying to prove here..... Still wasnt done now was it?

Yeah now you really seem to know nothing about LOTR.

First it all began with a song that were singing the valar with Eru. But morgoth was so powerful that he could resist the valar all together. The valar would raise mountains yet morgoth would destroy them, the valar would destroy the mountains and morgoth would raise them. Really buddy go read the creation of the world.

Morgoth had the warhammer called the grond which could not only kill armies but shatter the earth itself..........................

Yeah talk about lucifer's demons

Yeah tell me more about lucifer's demons...............

Morgoth's reality warping:The extent, nature, and specifics of Sauron's power are largely left to the imagination. Like his master Morgoth, he is capable of altering the physical substance of the world around him by mere effort of will (albeit to a far lesser extent). Yeah google that and see that for yourself.............

@justleader said:

@buttersdaman000: well if you are not bringing up lucifer's feat of destroying the earth then im sorry to say that he is featless

Get out... >_> feat less, really?

The guy tanked a gun said to kill anything in all of existence. Then after tanking said gun, casually explained that, "No it doesn't kill everything. There are about 5 things in the universe it's incapable of killing. Oh and you're talking to one of those."

He's exploded a man with a snap of his fingers.

It's verified by multiple sources that he can resurrect the dead. Heck Raphael though it perfectly reasonable that he resurrected a fellow angel from the grave.

He's shown tk.

In the fight with Gabriel he saw through Gabriel's reality warp created double or at least anticipated it.

He's shown super strength.

He's shown spell casting. Both of the mundane verbal variety, ritual variety, and while he hasn't shown angelic spellcasting it would be a bit obvious that he should be versed in it being one of the most powerful angels in existence..

And of course it would make absolutely no sense for him not to have capabilities similar to lesser angels in the series because angels as a whole seem to have a pretty universal powerset and things only get to be more drastic versions of other things as you go up the power scale. Here's an example, Cas has shown time travel ability and so has Michael. Cas was useless after sending Dean back and then even worst off with Sam and Dean, he also previously explained that without heaven's backing everything was harder for him when it came to time. Michael showed up, destroyed an angel to ash, completely fixed the house without any physical interaction with it, altered the memories of two people, and restored both Sam and Dean back to their time without much display of effort at all..

So yeah, your feat less claim is down right preposterous. I'll admit that with Lucifer a lot of his power is implied, but seriously let's get real and come up with arguments instead of low balling characters. If you think he loses, then explain why his opponent is superior.

Edit: I'm not sure if I'm coming off as hostile, but that is not my intent. The point of the above statement is about low balling, which is something that tends to annoy me in the Battles Forum.

@Soulstealer said:

@justleader said:

@buttersdaman000: well if you are not bringing up lucifer's feat of destroying the earth then im sorry to say that he is featless

Get out... >_> feat less, really?

The guy tanked a gun said to kill anything in all of existence. Then after tanking said gun, casually explained that, "No it doesn't kill everything. There are about 5 things in the universe it's incapable of killing. Oh and you're talking to one of those."

He's exploded a man with a snap of his fingers.

It's verified by multiple sources that he can resurrect the dead. Heck Raphael though it perfectly reasonable that he resurrected a fellow angel from the grave.

He's shown tk.

In the fight with Gabriel he saw through Gabriel's reality warp created double or at least anticipated it.

He's shown super strength.

He's shown spell casting. Both of the mundane verbal variety, ritual variety, and while he hasn't shown angelic spellcasting it would be a bit obvious that he should be versed in it being one of the most powerful angels in existence..

And of course it would make absolutely no sense for him not to have capabilities similar to lesser angels in the series because angels as a whole seem to have a pretty universal powerset and things only get to be more drastic versions of other things as you go up the power scale. Here's an example, Cas has shown time travel ability and so has Michael. Cas was useless after sending Dean back and then even worst off with Sam and Dean, he also previously explained that without heaven's backing everything was harder for him when it came to time. Michael showed up, destroyed an angel to ash, completely fixed the house without any physical interaction with it, altered the memories of two people, and restored both Sam and Dean back to their time without much display of effort at all..

So yeah, your feat less claim is down right preposterous. I'll admit that with Lucifer a lot of his power is implied, but seriously let's get real and come up with arguments instead of low balling characters. If you think he loses, then explain why his opponent is superior.

Edit: I'm not sure if I'm coming off as hostile, but that is not my intent. The point of the above statement is about low balling, which is something that tends to annoy me in the Battles Forum.

Calm down buddy, the guy was just stating his opinion, and I agree that he was wrong.

But now let's compare:

Morgoth's strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer

Morgoth destroying the sun and moon and escaping a timeless and outside reality dimension>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>destroying the earth and dying

Morgoth's creation and destruction>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer

Morgoth's essence can't be killed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's essence can be killed by archangel blade.

Morgoth's grond can shatter earth>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pick lucifer's feat.

Morgoth's reality warping>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's reality warping(although never demonstrated)

Morgoth corrupting Maia and turning them to balrogs and creating Dragons>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's demons

Comes from the race of Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Archangels

Only second to GOD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fourth to GOD (death, michael)

So tell me how this works?

@Soulstealer: yeah angels do have a universal powerset espescially the fight castiel and uriel vs alaistar now that was impressive they seemed really to show their true potential(which is boxing btw) and really you're giving me feats like turning to ash, alteing memories so what you expect from me wow how did he do that! if you want to powerscale morgoth then ill tell you a simple fact he escaped the void and he was far more powerful than his fellow gods who can create galaxies while lucifer can create ehhhh demons yeah i think there is a difference here what do you think is there a difference

Yeah now you really seem to know nothing about LOTR.

First it all began with a song that were singing the valar with Eru. But morgoth was so powerful that he could resist the valar all together. The valar would raise mountains yet morgoth would destroy them, the valar would destroy the mountains and morgoth would raise them. Really buddy go read the creation of the world.

Morgoth had the warhammer called the grond which could not only kill armies but shatter the earth itself..........................

I think it's important to note that not only did Lucifer destroy Castiel's vessel with snap of his fingers, he also destroyed Castiel's essence. Without any sort of Angelic blade that's an extremely high feat. Also to say that Lucy is less powerful than Michael is erroneous. They are supposed to be equals. Michael just won the last fight. The only two beings who are legitimately more powerful than him are God and Death (Death being debatable).

That being said I agree that Morgoth would win this fight. I think that just due to the nature of television vs. books Morgoth's feats are more significant and epic in scale. And even though Morgoth can't kill Lucifer he can incapacitate him temporarily. That's enough to give him the win in my book.

@kingkronos said:

@Soulstealer said:

@justleader said:

@buttersdaman000: well if you are not bringing up lucifer's feat of destroying the earth then im sorry to say that he is featless

Get out... >_> feat less, really?

The guy tanked a gun said to kill anything in all of existence. Then after tanking said gun, casually explained that, "No it doesn't kill everything. There are about 5 things in the universe it's incapable of killing. Oh and you're talking to one of those."

He's exploded a man with a snap of his fingers.

It's verified by multiple sources that he can resurrect the dead. Heck Raphael though it perfectly reasonable that he resurrected a fellow angel from the grave.

He's shown tk.

In the fight with Gabriel he saw through Gabriel's reality warp created double or at least anticipated it.

He's shown super strength.

He's shown spell casting. Both of the mundane verbal variety, ritual variety, and while he hasn't shown angelic spellcasting it would be a bit obvious that he should be versed in it being one of the most powerful angels in existence..

And of course it would make absolutely no sense for him not to have capabilities similar to lesser angels in the series because angels as a whole seem to have a pretty universal powerset and things only get to be more drastic versions of other things as you go up the power scale. Here's an example, Cas has shown time travel ability and so has Michael. Cas was useless after sending Dean back and then even worst off with Sam and Dean, he also previously explained that without heaven's backing everything was harder for him when it came to time. Michael showed up, destroyed an angel to ash, completely fixed the house without any physical interaction with it, altered the memories of two people, and restored both Sam and Dean back to their time without much display of effort at all..

So yeah, your feat less claim is down right preposterous. I'll admit that with Lucifer a lot of his power is implied, but seriously let's get real and come up with arguments instead of low balling characters. If you think he loses, then explain why his opponent is superior.

Edit: I'm not sure if I'm coming off as hostile, but that is not my intent. The point of the above statement is about low balling, which is something that tends to annoy me in the Battles Forum.

Calm down buddy, the guy was just stating his opinion, and I agree that he was wrong.

But now let's compare:

Morgoth's strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer

Morgoth destroying the sun and moon and escaping a timeless and outside reality dimension>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>destroying the earth and dying

Morgoth's creation and destruction>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer

Morgoth's essence can't be killed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's essence can be killed by archangel blade.

Morgoth's grond can shatter earth>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pick lucifer's feat.

Morgoth's reality warping>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's reality warping(although never demonstrated)

Morgoth corrupting Maia and turning them to balrogs and creating Dragons>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's demons

Comes from the race of Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Archangels

Only second to GOD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fourth to GOD (death, michael)

So tell me how this works?

Completely incorrect statements are still completely incorrect. And his statement wasn't "In my opinion, he doesn't have any feats.." So moving on.

I know nothing of Morgoth nor really am I willing to get involved with this battle beyond reading it. However, I'd point out to you that a few of the above are completely and utterly pointless statements.

Morgoth's strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer Doesn't matter, a physical battle this isn't going to be.

Morgoth destroying the sun and moon and escaping a timeless and outside reality dimension>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>destroying the earth and dying Neither the destroying earth nor the dying happened as it was prophesy and nothing more (it gives you a measure of the clashing powers, but that's about it). And indeed I pointed out in the other thread, it was never said that Lucifer was going to destroy the earth, the statement was about a large portion of the population being killed by the battle. And Lucifer himself says that he doesn't want to destroy earth, that humanity is his only enemy and he wants them gone.

Morgoth's essence can't be killed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's essence can be killed by archangel blade. Irrelevant seeing as Morgoth doesn't possess an Archangel blade.

Comes from the race of Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Archangels Irrelevant.

Only second to GOD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fourth to GOD (death, michael) Depends on the feats of said God. I'd assume the creator of the LOTR universe isn't the judeo-christian God

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos:
So, youre admitting that you distorted and misrepresented Sauron in the previous thread? Thats what it seems like.

Yeah now you really seem to know nothing about LOTR.

First it all began with a song that were singing the valar with Eru. But morgoth was so powerful that he could resist the valar all together. The valar would raise mountains yet morgoth would destroy them, the valar would destroy the mountains and morgoth would raise them. Really buddy go read the creation of the world.

Morgoth had the warhammer called the grond which could not only kill armies but shatter the earth itself..........................

I never claimed to know anything about LoTR.......lol..... Cool? So he can raise and destroy mountains. I'm failing to see how this would harm Lucifer...whom, by your own battle is in his true form, meaning, he is not trapped in the body of a 6 foot man. Castiel, and angel who Lucifer killed with a snap, described his own true form as being larger than the crysler building. Now, assuming that Archangels are even bigger, how big do you think Lucifer would be?? Again, I dont even see how this matters....

Buddy are stupid or what? I'm sorry to say that but you are not understanding anything.

Sauron and Morgoth both have shown these abilities, only morgoth on a much greater scale. Destroying mountains and raising them is just one feat to show that he was able to challenge the Valar.

Also doesn't matter lucifer's size, since like you can see in that above picture that dragon who makes mountains look like toys and who would make lucifer look like a child, is another bitch of morgoth who was created by him.

And Wow now I'm amazed in lucifer's size. Tell me: Can archangels create constellations? It would be hard to imagine that archangels can create anything much less hundreds of stars. And that was done by Varda a less Valar than morgoth.

@Soulstealer: that settles it then you know nothing about morgoth then you get out

I think it's important to note that not only did Lucifer destroy Castiel's vessel with snap of his fingers, he also destroyed Castiel's essence. Without any sort of Angelic blade that's an extremely high feat. Also to say that Lucy is less powerful than Michael is erroneous. They are supposed to be equals. Michael just won the last fight. The only two beings who are legitimately more powerful than him are God and Death (Death being debatable).

That being said I agree that Morgoth would win this fight. I think that just due to the nature of television vs. books Morgoth's feats are more significant and epic in scale. And even though Morgoth can't kill Lucifer he can incapacitate him temporarily. That's enough to give him the win in my book.

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos:
So, youre admitting that you distorted and misrepresented Sauron in the previous thread? Thats what it seems like.

Yeah now you really seem to know nothing about LOTR.

First it all began with a song that were singing the valar with Eru. But morgoth was so powerful that he could resist the valar all together. The valar would raise mountains yet morgoth would destroy them, the valar would destroy the mountains and morgoth would raise them. Really buddy go read the creation of the world.

Morgoth had the warhammer called the grond which could not only kill armies but shatter the earth itself..........................

I never claimed to know anything about LoTR.......lol..... Cool? So he can raise and destroy mountains. I'm failing to see how this would harm Lucifer...whom, by your own battle is in his true form, meaning, he is not trapped in the body of a 6 foot man. Castiel, and angel who Lucifer killed with a snap, described his own true form as being larger than the crysler building. Now, assuming that Archangels are even bigger, how big do you think Lucifer would be?? Again, I dont even see how this matters....

Buddy are stupid or what? I'm sorry to say that but you are not understanding anything.

Sauron and Morgoth both have shown these abilities, only morgoth on a much greater scale. Destroying mountains and raising them is just one feat to show that he was able to challenge the Valar.

Also doesn't matter lucifer's size, since like you can see in that above picture that dragon who makes mountains look like toys and who would make lucifer look like a child, is another bitch of morgoth who was created by him.

And Wow now I'm amazed in lucifer's size. Tell me: Can archangels create constellations? It would be hard to imagine that archangels can create anything much less hundreds of stars. And that was done by Varda a less Valar than morgoth.

@Soulstealer said:

@kingkronos said:

@Soulstealer said:

@justleader said:

@buttersdaman000: well if you are not bringing up lucifer's feat of destroying the earth then im sorry to say that he is featless

Get out... >_> feat less, really?

The guy tanked a gun said to kill anything in all of existence. Then after tanking said gun, casually explained that, "No it doesn't kill everything. There are about 5 things in the universe it's incapable of killing. Oh and you're talking to one of those."

He's exploded a man with a snap of his fingers.

It's verified by multiple sources that he can resurrect the dead. Heck Raphael though it perfectly reasonable that he resurrected a fellow angel from the grave.

He's shown tk.

In the fight with Gabriel he saw through Gabriel's reality warp created double or at least anticipated it.

He's shown super strength.

He's shown spell casting. Both of the mundane verbal variety, ritual variety, and while he hasn't shown angelic spellcasting it would be a bit obvious that he should be versed in it being one of the most powerful angels in existence..

And of course it would make absolutely no sense for him not to have capabilities similar to lesser angels in the series because angels as a whole seem to have a pretty universal powerset and things only get to be more drastic versions of other things as you go up the power scale. Here's an example, Cas has shown time travel ability and so has Michael. Cas was useless after sending Dean back and then even worst off with Sam and Dean, he also previously explained that without heaven's backing everything was harder for him when it came to time. Michael showed up, destroyed an angel to ash, completely fixed the house without any physical interaction with it, altered the memories of two people, and restored both Sam and Dean back to their time without much display of effort at all..

So yeah, your feat less claim is down right preposterous. I'll admit that with Lucifer a lot of his power is implied, but seriously let's get real and come up with arguments instead of low balling characters. If you think he loses, then explain why his opponent is superior.

Edit: I'm not sure if I'm coming off as hostile, but that is not my intent. The point of the above statement is about low balling, which is something that tends to annoy me in the Battles Forum.

Calm down buddy, the guy was just stating his opinion, and I agree that he was wrong.

But now let's compare:

Morgoth's strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer

Morgoth destroying the sun and moon and escaping a timeless and outside reality dimension>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>destroying the earth and dying

Morgoth's creation and destruction>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer

Morgoth's essence can't be killed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's essence can be killed by archangel blade.

Morgoth's grond can shatter earth>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pick lucifer's feat.

Morgoth's reality warping>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's reality warping(although never demonstrated)

Morgoth corrupting Maia and turning them to balrogs and creating Dragons>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's demons

Comes from the race of Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Archangels

Only second to GOD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fourth to GOD (death, michael)

So tell me how this works?

Completely incorrect statements are still completely incorrect. And his statement wasn't "In my opinion, he doesn't have any feats.." So moving on.

I know nothing of Morgoth nor really am I willing to get involved with this battle beyond reading it. However, I'd point out to you that a few of the above are completely and utterly pointless statements.

Morgoth's strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer Doesn't matter, a physical battle this isn't going to be.

Morgoth destroying the sun and moon and escaping a timeless and outside reality dimension>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>destroying the earth and dying Neither the destroying earth nor the dying happened as it was prophesy and nothing more (it gives you a measure of the clashing powers, but that's about it). And indeed I pointed out in the other thread, it was never said that Lucifer was going to destroy the earth, the statement was about a large portion of the population being killed by the battle. And Lucifer himself says that he doesn't want to destroy earth, that humanity is his only enemy and he wants them gone.

Morgoth's essence can't be killed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's essence can be killed by archangel blade. Irrelevant seeing as Morgoth doesn't possess an Archangel blade.

Comes from the race of Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Archangels Irrelevant.

Only second to GOD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fourth to GOD (death, michael) Depends on the feats of said God. I'd assume the creator of the LOTR universe isn't the judeo-christian God

Yet a physical battle was gonna kill lucifer...........

Doesn't change the fact

Morgoth destroying the sun and moon and escaping a timeless and outside reality dimension>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>destroying the earth and dying STOP IGNORING THE FEAT.......

Archangel blades are not the only means to destroy archs as seen by castiel and liviathians.

Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>archangels. Yes it is true as they can create constellations and the sun, etc...................archangels didn't show even nearthat level of power

Eru is Godhttp://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Eru_Il%C3%BAvatar

And I could argue that Eru>God in supernatural since he will die..............

@buttersdaman000 said:

@TheWitchingHour said:

I think it's important to note that not only did Lucifer destroy Castiel's vessel with snap of his fingers, he also destroyed Castiel's essence. Without any sort of Angelic blade that's an extremely high feat. Also to say that Lucy is less powerful than Michael is erroneous. They are supposed to be equals. Michael just won the last fight. The only two beings who are legitimately more powerful than him are God and Death (Death being debatable).

That being said I agree that Morgoth would win this fight. I think that just due to the nature of television vs. books Morgoth's feats are more significant and epic in scale. And even though Morgoth can't kill Lucifer he can incapacitate him temporarily. That's enough to give him the win in my book.

Finally, somebody with some sense. I think this is fair enough. The different mediums allow Morgoth to be portrayed more impressively seeing as how Supernatural is limited to budget. So, while, I dont think he can truly beat Lucifer, Morgoth has the upper hand.

I agree. I was looking around at the last thread Lucifer vs. Sauron and was pretty shocked by kingkronos hostility. He needs to prove a point I guess.

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos said:

@buttersdaman000 said:

@kingkronos:
So, youre admitting that you distorted and misrepresented Sauron in the previous thread? Thats what it seems like.

Yeah now you really seem to know nothing about LOTR.

First it all began with a song that were singing the valar with Eru. But morgoth was so powerful that he could resist the valar all together. The valar would raise mountains yet morgoth would destroy them, the valar would destroy the mountains and morgoth would raise them. Really buddy go read the creation of the world.

Morgoth had the warhammer called the grond which could not only kill armies but shatter the earth itself..........................

I never claimed to know anything about LoTR.......lol..... Cool? So he can raise and destroy mountains. I'm failing to see how this would harm Lucifer...whom, by your own battle is in his true form, meaning, he is not trapped in the body of a 6 foot man. Castiel, and angel who Lucifer killed with a snap, described his own true form as being larger than the crysler building. Now, assuming that Archangels are even bigger, how big do you think Lucifer would be?? Again, I dont even see how this matters....

Buddy are stupid or what? I'm sorry to say that but you are not understanding anything.

Sauron and Morgoth both have shown these abilities, only morgoth on a much greater scale. Destroying mountains and raising them is just one feat to show that he was able to challenge the Valar.

Also doesn't matter lucifer's size, since like you can see in that above picture that dragon who makes mountains look like toys and who would make lucifer look like a child, is another bitch of morgoth who was created by him.

And Wow now I'm amazed in lucifer's size. Tell me: Can archangels create constellations? It would be hard to imagine that archangels can create anything much less hundreds of stars. And that was done by Varda a less Valar than morgoth.

Before you call somebody stupid, u shuld lern ur grammerz derp. However, you are, without a doubt, the most entertaining and persistent troll to grace comicvine in.....about 2 weeks. And for that, I salute you. I look forward to your next LoTR battle.

Yeah good try at calling me a troll and denying the question because you know that lucifer wins and you just can't except the fact...................

Grow up really.................

Before you call somebody stupid, u shuld lern ur grammerz derp. However, you are, without a doubt, the most entertaining and persistent troll to grace comicvine in.....about 2 weeks. And for that, I salute you. I look forward to your next LoTR battle.

Yeah good try at calling me a troll and denying the questionbecause you know that lucifer wins and you just can't except the fact...................

Grow up really.................

@buttersdaman000 said:

@TheWitchingHour: Yeah, I think he just hates Supernatural. And, he pretty much admitted that he distorted facts in the previous thread smh.....

Never I like supernatural, I only have the last two episodes about Dick Roman in season 7. It could have ended in a good way you know, it's just you come here knowing nothing about Lotr and you say that he stomps Morgoth... So how am I supposed to react to that. I'm really sorry if I insulted you in any way, it's just that you really haven't shown me anything that lucifer has better than morgoth.....

@buttersdaman000: So this whole debate for what then?

@justleader said:

@Soulstealer: that settles it then you know nothing about morgoth then you get out

I never made any statement about him, nor did I ever fail to openly say I know nothing about him. However unlike you I didn't lie about a character's feats. So as I said before, moving on...

@kingkronos said:

@Soulstealer said:

@kingkronos said:

@Soulstealer said:

@justleader said:

@buttersdaman000: well if you are not bringing up lucifer's feat of destroying the earth then im sorry to say that he is featless

Get out... >_> feat less, really?

The guy tanked a gun said to kill anything in all of existence. Then after tanking said gun, casually explained that, "No it doesn't kill everything. There are about 5 things in the universe it's incapable of killing. Oh and you're talking to one of those."

He's exploded a man with a snap of his fingers.

It's verified by multiple sources that he can resurrect the dead. Heck Raphael though it perfectly reasonable that he resurrected a fellow angel from the grave.

He's shown tk.

In the fight with Gabriel he saw through Gabriel's reality warp created double or at least anticipated it.

He's shown super strength.

He's shown spell casting. Both of the mundane verbal variety, ritual variety, and while he hasn't shown angelic spellcasting it would be a bit obvious that he should be versed in it being one of the most powerful angels in existence..

And of course it would make absolutely no sense for him not to have capabilities similar to lesser angels in the series because angels as a whole seem to have a pretty universal powerset and things only get to be more drastic versions of other things as you go up the power scale. Here's an example, Cas has shown time travel ability and so has Michael. Cas was useless after sending Dean back and then even worst off with Sam and Dean, he also previously explained that without heaven's backing everything was harder for him when it came to time. Michael showed up, destroyed an angel to ash, completely fixed the house without any physical interaction with it, altered the memories of two people, and restored both Sam and Dean back to their time without much display of effort at all..

So yeah, your feat less claim is down right preposterous. I'll admit that with Lucifer a lot of his power is implied, but seriously let's get real and come up with arguments instead of low balling characters. If you think he loses, then explain why his opponent is superior.

Edit: I'm not sure if I'm coming off as hostile, but that is not my intent. The point of the above statement is about low balling, which is something that tends to annoy me in the Battles Forum.

Calm down buddy, the guy was just stating his opinion, and I agree that he was wrong.

But now let's compare:

Morgoth's strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer

Morgoth destroying the sun and moon and escaping a timeless and outside reality dimension>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>destroying the earth and dying

Morgoth's creation and destruction>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer

Morgoth's essence can't be killed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's essence can be killed by archangel blade.

Morgoth's grond can shatter earth>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pick lucifer's feat.

Morgoth's reality warping>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's reality warping(although never demonstrated)

Morgoth corrupting Maia and turning them to balrogs and creating Dragons>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's demons

Comes from the race of Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Archangels

Only second to GOD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fourth to GOD (death, michael)

So tell me how this works?

Completely incorrect statements are still completely incorrect. And his statement wasn't "In my opinion, he doesn't have any feats.." So moving on.

I know nothing of Morgoth nor really am I willing to get involved with this battle beyond reading it. However, I'd point out to you that a few of the above are completely and utterly pointless statements.

Morgoth's strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer Doesn't matter, a physical battle this isn't going to be.

Morgoth destroying the sun and moon and escaping a timeless and outside reality dimension>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>destroying the earth and dying Neither the destroying earth nor the dying happened as it was prophesy and nothing more (it gives you a measure of the clashing powers, but that's about it). And indeed I pointed out in the other thread, it was never said that Lucifer was going to destroy the earth, the statement was about a large portion of the population being killed by the battle. And Lucifer himself says that he doesn't want to destroy earth, that humanity is his only enemy and he wants them gone.

Morgoth's essence can't be killed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lucifer's essence can be killed by archangel blade. Irrelevant seeing as Morgoth doesn't possess an Archangel blade.

Comes from the race of Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Archangels Irrelevant.

Only second to GOD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fourth to GOD (death, michael) Depends on the feats of said God. I'd assume the creator of the LOTR universe isn't the judeo-christian God

Yet a physical battle was gonna kill lucifer...........

Doesn't change the fact

Morgoth destroying the sun and moon and escaping a timeless and outside reality dimension>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>destroying the earth and dying STOP IGNORING THE FEAT.......

Archangel blades are not the only means to destroy archs as seen by castiel and liviathians.

Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>archangels. Yes it is true as they can create constellations and the sun, etc...................archangels didn't show even nearthat level of power

Eru is Godhttp://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Eru_Il%C3%BAvatar

And I could argue that Eru>God in supernatural since he will die..............

No physical battle was going to kill Lucifer, ever. The only things that can kill him have a physical component sure, but they aren't things inherent to our reality. Or in the case of the oil, they are, but have been altered spiritually in such a way as to be effective.

There is no fact. First prophesy is just that prophesy, secondly I told you that there was going to be no earth destruction because that is the exact opposite of what either side wants. Earth is the spoils of their battle, who gets in a fight and then destroys the prize?

I didn't ignore anything. I explained that the Lucifer part of this is incorrect and I said at the very beginning of my statement that I know nothing about Morgoth or the context in which the feat you've posted for him happens.

Cas was amped and amped in such a way that said feat isn't able to be replicated. It's explained that each soul is like a nuclear reactor spiritually for an angel and Cas had taken in all the souls of Purgatory which means the souls of every monster in the supernatural verse since the very beginning of time plus the Leviathans I've pointed this out too, also Leviathans have never killed an Archangel to my knowledge. Basic angels are not Archangels. Also considering there are only four of them and two are dead, I'm going to say you knew this.

Valar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>archangels. Yes it is true as they can create constellations and the sun, etc...................archangels didn't show even nearthat level of power Racial comparison is pretty much irrelevant first off, and secondly considering the Supernatural verse runs on the premise that judeo-christian God created the universe and all things in it (with perhaps the exception of Death or at least that's the way death remembers it) I'm going to go out on a limb and say no, the Archangels don't have creationist cosmic feats seeing as they are not the creators of said universe.

And I could argue that Eru>God in supernatural since he will die.............. First off this is conjecture on your part which isn't in and of itself bad, especially dealing with the types of characters were are. However I would point out that the only proof we have of God's supposed eventual death is Death himself whom is obviously biased and no corroboration except for maybe Raphael's whole "God is dead" speech which again is biased seeing as it was his rationale for Michael's course of action.

@buttersdaman000 said:

@TheWitchingHour: Yeah, I think he just hates Supernatural. And, he pretty much admitted that he distorted facts in the previous thread smh.....

All I said in the previous was true, morgoth's and sauron's feats were not the same I was using. Morgoth is far above Sauron in every way.

Morgoth should take Lucifer. Lucifer was pretty powerful, considered one of the strongest being in the Supernatural Universe, but he wasn't on Morgoth's level in my opinion. I think he would last a little while, and through cunning and tactics would be able to make this a prolonged fight. But in the end I just don't think he has what it takes.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

@kingkronos: Be more respectful with how you address people. This is a warning.

@Floopay said:

Morgoth should take Lucifer. Lucifer was pretty powerful, considered one of the strongest being in the Supernatural Universe, but he wasn't on Morgoth's level in my opinion. I think he would last a little while, and through cunning and tactics would be able to make this a prolonged fight. But in the end I just don't think he has what it takes.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Morgoth will be crushed under Lucifers hove. Morgoth sure is powerful, but he has nothing on this Arch Angel.

@hermankeson: The next Dark Lord was so scared and dedicated to him that he created an army loyally devoted to Morgoth even though Melkor had already perished....