Veshark

Justice League is slightly more tolerable. None of them are that great.

@mrnoital

So you're just gonna ignore everything I brought up about Captain Boomerang? Okay.

Wait, that panel's your defense for Rick Flag? What's the color of his armor on that page? Here's another page from that same issue, and if you don't think that it's yellow, a callback to Flag's trademark color, I don't know what to tell you.

You want to talk recent Rick Flag? Here's Justice League vs. Suicide Squad from last year:

What's the color of his shirt there? Three guesses.

Rick Flag has a distinctive yellow shirt. You take that away, and all you're left with is generic action hero. If you've ever read a single issue of Suicide Squad in your life, you would know this.

And his appearance in Secret Six was hardly a "cameo", I don't think you know what that word means. He was a major character in a crossover that lasted five issues, so don't twist it and make it seem like his yellow shirt there was just a once-off. Also, one of the issues in this crossover was Suicide Squad #67 so please don't try that argument either.

This is all you've been doing this entire debate. Twisting facts or deliberately ignoring them to support your flimsy argument that Suicide Squad's costumes are somehow justified. You want to talk double standards? Arguing that the shape of Widow's belt is somewhat equal to Boomerang's toque and scarf in terms of costume design? That's a double standard.

Sigh. You still don't understand my point about Slipknot. It's not that his original costume was so iconic or the best-designed costume in comics. It's that he had a costume that showed he was a supervillain. When you take that away, all you're left with is a generic badguy in body armor.

I don't have to agree to disagree for a single thing when you're clearly wrong. "Vision's polo shirt" is the highlight of your argument here.

"'Nam. The greatest American fck-up of all time. Lose 60,000 of our own killing 3 million of the locals. Let the Khmer Rouge in next door, that's another million right there. Make the guy in the G.I. lid, everyone's savior from WWII, make him into a rapist and butcher in the eyes of the world...and still lose."

- Nick Fury

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642

I'm okay with Yu's art, not the biggest fan, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see!

I don't know, I love Kirby on Fantastic Four but his work on Captain America never really did it for me, even during his later Madbomb era. I think it's because he uses a more superheroic high-energy explosive style of art, whereas I think Colan's naturalistic take suits the more melancholic Cap stories of the 1960s (where Cap was always depressed about Bucky, or Sharon, or having no friends haha).

As for other Cap artists I adore, it would be Steranko (obviously), Epting, and Buscema. Also Hitch, though he's probably better known for the Ultimate version of the character.

@mrnoital

None of what you've said counters anything I've said.

Captain Boomerang: He still has a scarf there. Also, that scan comes from Batman Arkham Knight #22, which is, y'know not in continuity.

Rick Flag: Still wrong. The panel you listed is from Suicide Squad Vol. 3, which came out in 2007. He wore tactical gear for this one specific story. This is a panel from Secret Six from 2010. Tell me, what's the color of Flag's shirt?

Slipknot: Don't be disingenuous. You can still design a costume that retains elements from the comics without being a direct lift; it's what superhero films have been doing for years. Just because you think it's a terrible costume doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

You're listing isolated instances and outliers as examples here. Has Boomerang had appearances where he wasn't wearing a toque? Sure. But does he wear it in the overwhelming majority of his appearances and is it a distinctive aspect of his costume? Also yes.

@mrnoital

You're still missing my point. This isn't a debate about MCU vs. DCEU...you started a debate arguing against my point that the Suicide Squad's costumes aren't very good costumes. Even if what you're saying about the MCU is true, it really doesn't change my original statement.

As for the following Squad members:

- I don't see how you can argue that the toque (arguably the most defining feature of Captain Boomerang's costume, along with his scarf) is equitable to the shape of Black Widow's belt? It's not a double standard. You're just comparing an iconic part of one character's costume (Boomerang) to the most random nit-picking about Widow's. If you see the hourglass symbol on her belt, you immediately know it's Widow, even sans the discs, correct? If you took the toque and scarf away from Boomerang, how would you identify the character? Honestly:

How exactly does this say "Captain Boomerang, the Flash villain" to you? It looks more like "drunk homeless guy in a trenchcoat."

- Rick Flag is not a generic Army guy. If you've ever read any Squad issue, you would know this. He is as iconic and central to the team as Deadshot. And he has a very distinct bright yellow shirt in the comics, and when you take that away, what you're basically left with is discount Steve Trevor.

- We're not talking about cameo fanboy service costumes that appear for one tenth of a second in the film. We're talking about Quinn's finalized costume in the film. And no, it's not comics-accurate, or distinctive, and very much looks like average civilian clothes.

- You can be snarky all you want, but I can literally draw both those characters from scratch without reference if you'd like. I'm not arguing that they're the most iconic villains of the DCU, but Slipknot definitely has a very distinct costume that tells you he's a supervillain. El Diablo, I can be a bit more relaxed on, but that generic jacket really just makes him look like your token Hispanic gangbanger in my opinion.

Again, the Squad's costumes just aren't that great. And for all your claims that the MCU's costumes have the same fault, there were only three that I agreed on (Hawkeye, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch, all of whom I've mentioned earlier), and that's hardly representative of the countless other costumes the MCU's gotten right. I've also debunked all your other claims about:

• Widow's Belt
• Vision in the polo (Really?)
• Captain America's Infinity War costume (Really?)
• Falcon
• The entire Guardians of the Galaxy

So I'm genuinely confused why you're still pedantically sticking to your premise?

@originalcaptain Thanks!

@mrnoital

Now you're just splitting hairs here. I don't think the "round disks" really matter when it has, y'know, the actual logo of a black widow spider. That's like saying Cap's costume isn't comics-accurate because he doesn't have wings on the side of his helmet, or DCEU Batman's costume for not having white eye-lenses. And if you really want to be pedantic, it's not as though Nat hasn't worn belts without the discs in the comics before. Like multiple times.

None of your posts have pointed out that the Squad's costumes are "more accurate". When I made rebuttals to your claims about Boomerang etc., you straight up ignored them and dragged the MCU into this debate, listing inane examples like Vision wearing a polo shirt.

It's not a double standard, and it's not as though I didn't acknowledge in my original post that not all of the MCU's costumes are perfect (again, Hawkeye, for the umpteenth time). But for the most part, when you look at the MCU's characters, you think "superheroes in costumes". I don't even get the sense that the Squad's villains are wearing costumes. With a few exceptions like Croc, Deadshot, and Katana (even barely)...the overwhelming majority of them just look like civilians wearing generic clothes or body armor (So, Quinn, Flag, Boomerang, Diablo, Slipknot, Diablo etc.). I think their designs in the film honestly take away a lot of the personality and style of these characters.

@mrnoital

Um, yes.

You're making it sound like she's just wearing a generic belt in the movies. It's very clearly the same logo.

The only two you could argue for are Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch (both of whom I've already mentioned earlier). Falcon's costume is based on his Ultimate look. At least Falcon's justified by having a basis in comics, what's the argument for Slipknot's costume in the movie?

And again, none of what you're saying even defends your original point. Even if the MCU's costumes aren't comics-accurate....it doesn't magically counter my argument that Suicide Squad's costumes are not distinctive or accurate.

@mrnoital

You can't really say "Cap's Civil War team looks like well-done cosplay" without really justifying your argument. Not to mention you've mostly ignored the other counter-points I brought up in my last post. And even if Civil War's costumes look like cosplay.....how does that change the fact that Suicide Squad's does too?

Guardians of the Galaxy is definitely a superhero film. It features superhero characters in a superhero universe, I don't really think that's debatable.

Also, Black Widow doesn't have her belt? Look at the following picture and tell me how many belts you count. Black Widow has had her iconic logo belt in all of her appearances, what you're claiming is patently false. Add the gauntlets to that and tell me, how isn't this exactly like comic-book Black Widow?

Did it pay well at least