Veshark's forum posts

#1 Edited by Veshark (9189 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm, interesting battle. A definitive answer is tricky considering both characters are somewhat limited in their combat showings, but I'm leaning towards Georges Batroc for this matchup.

I'm largely banking on Batroc's obvious skill/experience edge. Granted, it is a little bit of conjecture, but as Crossbones puts it, Batroc is a top international mercenary with a reputation for maximum casualties. Military training, years (presumably) of actual H2H combat under his belt, and a decent display of MA prowess against Captain America means he holds this advantage over Kingpin. Wilson Fisk is, at best, a street brawler. And while Fisk does possess remarkable strength and durability, personal combat is not really his realm.

Plus, Batroc's not exactly a slouch in the physicals department. He showed enough reaction time to dodge Cap's shield and engage him in combat, and enough strength/durability to both take and respond to Cap's (enhanced) punches. Also, before anyone tries to argue that Batroc's MA weren't a match for Cap's superior physicals; note that in addition to being stronger and more durable - Cap has actual fighting skills, and that the gap between Steve and Batroc is far greater than Batroc and Fisk.

Compare both villains' respective encounters. Kingpin's final fight with Daredevil, while impressive, has to be put into context. Kingpin was extremely bloodlusted in that encounter. He was enraged that Matt had ruined his plans, and was going all-out to destroy his enemy. Secondly, note that Fisk's first instinct upon exiting the van was to flee. It was only because he was cornered into that alley that he resorted to fighting. Trapped with no means of escape meant that Kingpin was arguably fighting harder out of desperation. His rage was able to momentarily trump Matt's skill, but he still folded in the end. And in this battle, Kingpin doesn't have the bloodlust advantage.

Now look at Batroc vs. Cap - yes, Batroc did lose. But his skill still enabled him to put up a very good fight against a highly-trained superhuman who throws bikes and crashes Quinjets. I mean Cap did a spinning drop kick to his face, tackled the Algerian through a freakin' door, socked his jaw, and the guy was still able to recover within 20-ish seconds.

Thoughts @risingbean? I think this would be a pretty interesting fight to consider.

#2 Posted by Veshark (9189 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Posted by Veshark (9189 posts) - - Show Bio

Ha! Finally watched a link before it went down.

The tone of the trailer is a little unsettling - doesn't exactly scream 'World's Finest'. And the trope of the all-powerful godlike Superman cast in the light of international mistrust is pretty well-worn by this point. That said, the concept's never been done to this degree in a live-action film before (exceptions like Watchmen aside), so hopefully the execution is fresh. And perhaps this is the initial dark night (see what I did there) of Bats and Supes clashing, before the eventual dawn (see what I did there) of the two heroes becoming allies, and the formation of the Justice League.

Overall, it's all still too early to say much, but being someone who actually enjoyed Man of Steel a fair deal, I'm pretty hyped for this. If anything, having the World's Finest share the same screen alone merits purchasing a ticket.

#5 Posted by Veshark (9189 posts) - - Show Bio

No Truth?

If you're referring to Isaiah Bradley, he's not really an Anti-Cap character, seeing as how he's not a villain/or ever fought Steve.

Thoughts on this, my legume legionnaire? @risingbean

#6 Posted by Veshark (9189 posts) - - Show Bio


Nah, to be honest I don't really have the time to participate in any these days. Between work and college finals, I just can't post as often as I used to. And don't worry, it wasn't presumptuous at all, just humbling ;)

#7 Posted by Veshark (9189 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

Conditions are a little vague. No clarification on the armor models in question, or if we're talking about Earth-2 Kendra or Prime-Earth Shayera.

If it's Pre-52 Hawks though, the Iron Men have this pretty handily. New-52 I'm not entirely sure, but I'd bank on the armors more than not.

omigod it's the legendary veshark

I don't know you but your debates are legendary; in particular many users (including me) regard this as one of the best CaVs EVER

Ha, well thanks, appreciate the love. Yeah that was a really fun debate for all involved; I'm glad that other Viners enjoyed it too.

#8 Posted by Veshark (9189 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman, The Dark Knight

Bruce Wayne

R1: 1950s Captain America, Grand Director

William Burnside
  • Captain America's replacement in the 1950s; driven insane by the Super-Soldier Serum
  • Described as x2 faster and stronger than Steve Rogers
  • Fought Bucky Barnes twice evenly and defeated Falcon, threw his shield with enough strength to cause a car's engine to explode
  • Armed with a duplicate shield

R2: Anti-Cap, Super-Sailor

Identity Unknown
  • Anti-Cap is a Navy SEAL with two years of covert operations under his belt
  • Powered by a spinal processor that grants increased reflexes, healing, and muscle tissue density
  • Fought Cap twice in H2H combat evenly, beat Falcon in H2H, recovered from a handgun bullet to the head within seconds, his punch was strong enough to send Cap flying
  • Armed with a duplicate shield, a M16 rifle, a sidearm, and assorted grenades

R3: U.S. Agent, Super-Patriot

John Walker
  • Replaced Steve Rogers during the 'Captain' era; a violent anti-hero who has served in the West Coast and Dark Avengers
  • Enhancements grant him 10-ton strength and superhuman physicals; trained in combat by the Taskmaster
  • Fought Cap evenly multiple times, defeated Hawkeye in H2H, briefly stood up to an Ego-powered Ronan the Accuser
  • Armed with Black Panther's vibranium shield

R4: Protocide, Prototype Captain

Clinton McIntyre
  • Subject to the same Serum as Steve Rogers; but driven insane by it and turned into a ruthless savage
  • Described as being stronger than Captain America
  • Fought Cap evenly twice, defeated U.S. Agent, strong enough to flip a truck over with a single kick
  • Armed with shield

R5: John Steele, the First Super-Soldier

John Steele
  • The original super-soldier; fought in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, and became a member of the Shadow Council
  • Possesses superhuman strength and bulletproof skin; described as stronger and faster than Cap by Steve himself
  • Defeated Cap in H2H combat, bent the barrel of a German tank, threw a German jeep into the air
  • Armed with a Thompson submachine gun

R6: Nuke, Weapon VII

Frank Simpson
  • Subject of the Weapon Plus program; a Vietnam War veteran
  • Has been given cybernetic implants and artificial fireproof skin
  • Has tanked small-arms fire and grenades, has fought Captain America and Daredevil both very evenly, nearly as fast as Murdock, immune to nerve strikes
  • Armed with Betsy the rifle

R7: Ameridroid, Nazi Android

Lyle Dekker
  • The essence of a Nazi scientist implanted into the body of a 18-foot tall android dressed in a Captain America uniform. No, really.
  • Possesses all the powers of Captain America, proportional to his 18-foot tall android body
  • Easily stomped Captain America; described by Steve Rogers himself as being "as fast as me".


  • Pre-52 showings for Batman only
  • In-character for everyone
  • Win by KO, Incap, or Death
  • Location: Gotham City rooftops
  • Batman has dossiers on each villain and has video records of their encounters with Captain America. Batman also has 20 minutes between each villain to strategize, but only has access to standard gear
  • Batman's health/physical condition carries over from each round

How far does the Dark Knight get?

#9 Edited by Veshark (9189 posts) - - Show Bio

Conditions are a little vague. No clarification on the armor models in question, or if we're talking about Earth-2 Kendra or Prime-Earth Shayera.

If it's Pre-52 Hawks though, the Iron Men have this pretty handily. New-52 I'm not entirely sure, but I'd bank on the armors more than not.

#10 Posted by Veshark (9189 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Welcome back mighty Veshark!

Well I've been on-and-off the Vine for the past few months, but thanks ;)