Bane one shots him,why are Harley and Ivy and Freeze put higher? none of them gave Batman half as much trouble as Bane even put together. There's a reason why there were only 2 Batman vs Bane fights in that universe. Bats and Bane have a 1-1 record,even Babs in her dream saw him kill Bruce.
entropy_aegis's forum posts
I also find it amusing that for all the crap it gets from comic fans The Dark Knight Rises has gone to become quite influential. Arrow S2 and this were clearly inspired by that film.
What makes you say this? As far as I can see, TDKR was about an aged, veteran Bruce Wayne coming out of retirement to face his most grueling challenge yet and establish Batman as a beacon of hope for Gotham City which can be passed on to the next generation while Bruce Wayne finally enjoys his well deserved peace. Arrow S2 was about the personal feud between Oliver Queen and Slade Wilson as Slade goes from a brother to a nemesis, while Oliver struggles to let go of his past experiences and become a hero. In that respect, they're actually polar opposites. TDKR is about Batman's legacy concluding, while Arrow S2 ends with Oliver finally becoming a hero. And while the conflict of Arrow S2 revolves around past relationships, Bane is shown to be a brand new threat in TDKR.
Should've made it more specific,Slade's entire villain plot was a ripoff of Bane's villains plot both from Rises and from Bane comics. Slade has never done anything like that,much less in a GA story.
@entropy_aegis: Okay, I think we just got confused debating, I was lead to believe you were defending the movies in their entirety, and now I do recall Nightwing being beaten quite badly, although I'm still annoyed with the mock battle, and their fight in SOB where Nightwing is badly wounded afterwards.
My main annoyance is just how characters are presented, which isn't Damians fault. I haven't seen Bad Blood, so will check that out soon, but couldn't stand BvR.
Nope lol,I was merely countering the assertion that these movies made out Damian to be superior to Dick,Bruce and Talon that's all.
Villain decay. Seriously Savage actually did better against Rip Hunter during their fight in egypt, before he was super old.
More like the CW effect,I stopped taking fights seriously a long time ago no matter how pleasing the choreography.
@entropy_aegis: The thing is that Jason's claim to fame is being killed by the Joker. That was who he was for two decades. That was his importance to the Bat mythos. Then Loeb came up with the idea of a resurrected Jason confronting Batman, an idea that Winick ran with, and eventually got right with the animated movie. And ever since then, no writer outside of Morrison has been able to do anything meaningful with the character. Even Lobdell, the so-called greatest Jason writer of all time, keeps defining Jason as the Robin who died, and even retconned his origin story to involve the Joker. And all of Lobdell's supposed development with Jason is relegated to exposition rather than being shown. It's hard to say that Jason has made peace with the Batfamily when he's still narrating about they make want to throw up. Hell, Kelly/Lanzing "showed" more character progression in their Eternal issues than Lobdell ever did.
Yeah I was stunned it took them this long to address all that. Even Tomasi in his AK Annual had those plot points addressed so that he could move on with his story,it's basic story telling. What I dislike is that all these supposedly great Jason writers like Winick and Lobdell are hell bent on creating their own character in Jason Todd instead of going with the established character and the end result is obviously a new character who looks at what other Robins did some time ago and does it himself to show that he's totally as cool and relevant.
@aahz: Damian was killed by Heretic whereas Jason was killed by the Joker. Since 9/10 writers are Joker fans they'll always use Jason as a prop in his dynamic with Batman. That's why he's struggling to escape his death. I think his association with the Joker CAN be given more of a positive twist that allows him to operate on his own while still being connected to the clown as Tomasi just showed in Genesis.
You could Damians death in the same way to prop up his dynamic with Talia, ...
And reading about a traumatized character isn't that great on the long run. Lobdell choice to go in to a different direction was imo the right one. But the writers from the Batman office also need to move on and finally find a better role for him in the cross overs and push him (and Tim) a little bit more, they need this at moment far more than Dick and Damian.
Except not all writers look at Talia like she's a fiend. Gleason just buried Morrison era Talia in SOB so they wont be using Damian's death as a prop or at least not in a way that the character becomes secondary to the event.
@entropy_aegis: Yeah, that was when I was literally on the ground laughing at you, and couldn't reach my keyboard. Did you actually watch these movies, you've completely described them wrong.
Laughing at what ? that laughable response that you promptly deleted? still I'll commend you for trying the second time.
@entropy_aegis:His fight against Slade was them both landing hits, Slade had his shoulder penetrated, and had multiple cuts on him as well, in a fight against Slade Damian should be on complete defense, but got away with so much crap that the fight, while visual pleasing, took me away from it at almost every point.
Nightwing in his sparring match with Damian was completely bested at the end, and if you don't think that is enough all you have to do is see how Nightwing is beaten by a another one of the damian trains victims. IT doesn't matter if he was injured, he was taken down in two moves, and Talon didn't focus any injured area.
Talon was hit, and then disarmed in one motion by Damian, the fact he took down Nightwing in two hits, but Damian can disarm him and hurt him, is beyond ridiculous.
In the end it isn't Damian that brings these movies down, but the entire movie itself. They're boring and misrepresent characters to the point where it makes any advent comic reader want to vomit. Slades role is so minimum they could have used Black Spider, or Cheshire. Talon had the worse backstory of any of the Talons from the actual story arc, and Nightwing, while personality is intact, is made out to be so weak and inexperience that he looked completely wrecked in the fight won against Damian. These movies are extremely awful.
Yeah they both landed hits,but Slade landed the more dangerous hits. Damian's worst attacks were a slash to his abdomen and a batarang to his temple,Slade slit his wrists and broke his arm. Beyond that they each landed a few kicks. Btw I hated Son of Batman too,it was awful so if you think I'm defending that then dont. I didn't even find it visually pleasing either.
Key word being SPAR,the actual fight in SOB was won by Dick.
Both his arms and legs were badly penetrated...you know the body parts used in a fight. Also by two moves you mean two knives to his shoulders right?
And he defeated Damian easily a few seconds previously which you seem hell bent on ignoring. His superiority over Damian was established by that point, so yeah after multiple losses he disarmed him because "never give up" or "I love my loved one" established hero cliches. So yes it was cliched and convenient, but using it to prove that Damian>Talon,Nightwing and Batman is ridiculous.
As for my opinion on these movies:
SOB sucked hard
BvR was passable
Bad Blood was good
They are improving but that's the only compliment they're getting even from me.
I honestly dont care about any Talon or their backstory,they're all insignificant fodder,whether it's Cobb or Ballard,it's not their film. This one though was at least a billion times more sensible character than Lincoln 'HOO,HOO,HOO HOO HOO HOO HOO HOO" March. I didn't have to suffer through his speech on brotherhood and hooting.
Slade was butchered yeah.
Nightwing found love in Bad Blood so there's that I guess but it's not the first time either,UTRH had his knee tweaked after an explosion everyone dodged but he couldn't(despite being the most agile character there).
Isn't it because the villain has a personal connection to Felicity? Wasn't there a rumor/speculation/whatever that he's her father?
It's the tweet,could've just said team Arrow and be done with it. Calling them friends either implies that he was trolling the anti-Felicity crowd or that he really does believe Felicity to be the star of the show.
@theexile285: then clearly you haven't been watching. She's become a pure fan service character
You might find it surprising but that's actually not true. They aren't servicing any fan with all this crap,Olcity/Felicity fans dont like that Arrow writers constantly tease a potential break up,they dont like her being constantly affiliated with Palmer, I have yet to see anyone who likes Donna or gothcity. Olcity fans just want a nice romance and smooching, fan fic crowds are notoriously easy to satisfy so Felicity doesn't have to be extra special or involved if they just want to service the shippers. It's just Guggenheim and the other show runners trying to make Felicity a thing in the DCU.
Sorry for the late response but for me her fan service goes beyond that. Guggeheim recently said that Arrow wasn't Arrow until Felicity came in and I'm like the show is called Arrow first and foremost and if you guys had just focused on the story the show would still be as great. Felicity has become a fan service character in the aspect that they make her way more important than she needs to be and the story has suffered as a major result. Add that to the fact that the writers keep having characters in the show feel the need to say she's badass only furthers the point. Hell for reasons unknown they have Ra's say that "she has a great fire in her belly" like wtf. Then let's not forget all of the plot convenience she keeps getting. For example, Laurel despite her training and self defense background was getting her face beat in throughout season 3, yet Felicity goes with the gang to Nanada Parbat goes up against a few of it's members but somehow doesn't get killed and manages to accidentally throw her tablet with perfect accuracy to knock one of the members out. Then in Season 4 after being caught by Damien Darhk, she manages to grab a pole(that magically appears out of nowhere I might add) and takes out some of them. These are trained Ghost that were giving the group a hard time yet she takes them out with ease and I'm like Ok. Then there's her increased amount of screen time whereas Laurel, who is supposed to be the Female lead has had her time cut significantly. It's just annoying and I need her to die. I'll give EBR one thing her acting as Felicity is convincing because now I can't stand to even look at her
No problem man and did he really say that? LMAO. I was thinking of dismissing his tweet as mere trolling but he really is delusional. Agreed on all counts,they cant even spare the Flash from this BS. We just had to be reminded that Felicity is the worlds best hacker there,as if they all tested every single hacker before they came to that conclusion. If they keep this up I'm gonna ditch Flash as well,the show is already slacking big time as far as I'm concerned.
@orangebat: Yeah but Damian actually tried to attack him once the cage was opened,if he was as spectacular as everyone believes he wouldn't have just been tossed aside after a failed tackle. He also got owned by Talon in the cave,like just a punch and a kick,he could have killed him there and then instead he turned his attention towards Bruce.
They were both injured,Nightwing in particular rather bad. When they fought next to the cave entrance Bruce owned him easily. The final fight I just attribute to Talon finally getting lucky as Bruce had already established himself as a considerably superior fighter in both their fights,Talon just got one hit. Did Damian save the day? yes absolutely but that's different from beating these guys in a fight or being their superior in combat.
@entropy_aegis: Sorry, but you are absolutley wrong. LOL (its too funny, can't stop laughing) Robin fights in, Teen Titans, were always him loosing; most of the time Slade was holding back. As for Nightwing, he did beat him in Batman v Robin, and then that was even more confirmed with how Talon beat Nightwing so quickly compared to Damian, and his fight against Talon was what his fight vs Slade should've been, and what fight were you watching, winning in two moves, how delusional can one get, he attacked when Damian wasn't looking and got a slight advantage, and was then quickly outmaneuvered by Damian. Literally every fight he's been in was him beating opponents he shouldn't of been able to beat. It doesn't matter what the company is trying to do, if people don't like it; they don't, then people are going to complain.
Damian was losing to Slade buddy,Damian was the one with a broken arm and slit wrists not Slade. The only difference between the 2 fights was the amount of gore.TT Robin got far more hits on Slade in their fight than Damian did in SOB. Go watch them again instead of laughing and also start remembering that this Slade was a sucky character and fighter overall,Damian didn't beat someone particularly special. If we're gonna use the holding back argument then Damian's fights against Nightwing,Batman and Talon are all void because each one of them was holding back.
Nightwing was injured in his fight with Talon,his only actual fight with Damian took place in SOB and Damian lost that one. Still, injured Nightwing did fight Talon for a short period(mostly off screen),Damian on the other hand was flattened with a punch followed by a kick.
So what exactly is your argument? on hand you're saying his fight against Slade should've been like his fight with Talon,on the other hand you're crying about him beating Talon anyway,what gives?
Opponents like Tusk,Electrocutioner and Hellhound? did Damian beat them? he never beat Talon,Batman and Nghtwing and he defeated a useless Deathstroke after the fight of his life.
He may have been the hero of the day but he was not the better fighter of the day.