Binder_full_of_Women

@Picard said:

@SlimJ87D said:

Captain America is NOT just a peak human. He is what humans will be one day when we evolve and he is at the peak of that.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

From the words of Ed Brubaker himself. The man who wrote Captain America for 8 years.

"I agree with parts of a lot of people's comments here and elsewhere. But I think it's a bit funny to see people get so bent out of shape when a guy who's given something called the "Super Soldier Serum" turns out to be a bit more than the average human. He's been leaping out of the windows of eight story buildings and across city streets in NYC, dodging bullets, doing amazing feats of speed and strength, since I started reading the book in the early 70s.

My take has always been that Cap is the peak of human POTENTIAL. What humans might someday be able to do, physically, he already can. If it was just about having an olypic-level athlete, do you really think all these groups and scientists would have been wasting 50plus years trying to replicate the SSS?

All I've done is have him say outloud what's always been pretty clear to me as a fan of the character. He's always been a lot stronger and faster than the average well-trained athlete. And I've always hated the Batman comparisons. Batman trained himself, Cap got given a miracle serum. I'm not making that up or changing anything.

Daredevil is more like Batman, physically, and yet in Born Again, Cap races by him so fast he's a breeze. As for Cap running 60mph. In the comic, I think he says he can run a mile in a little over a minute when he HAS to. It's not even implied that he can keep that up all day. It's a full-on burst of speed, when he has to."

"Daredevil is more like Batman, physically, and yet in Born Again, Cap races by him so fast he's a breeze. As for Cap running 60mph."

Here, this is what Brubaker was talking about.

And finally this is Ed Brubakers writing here where he clearly puts it out there in his own dialogue, no artist is determining an obscure feat here. Cap is clearly running 5 miles in 5 minutes.

Again, what Ed Brubaker is saying is that Steve is not just the peak of man, but evolution wise he is the absolute peak of what a human can be physically in evolution. Whatever physical potential we have in evolution, he already is.

"My take has always been that Cap is the peak of human POTENTIAL. What humans might someday be able to do, physically, he already can."

Again, what Ed Brubaker is saying is that Steve is not just the peak of man, but evolution wise he is the absolute peak of what a human can be physically in evolution. Whatever physical potential we have in evolution, he already is.

This is stupid statement for one simple reason: evolution doesn't have direction! It is simply an adaptation to very the specific type of environment

I don't know how someone can understand that? So telling that humans will somday be just like Cap America is today, is flat out wrong.

According to the Evoltionaries, Mutants were the next and last step in the homo sapien evolutionary ladder. After mutants Humans were supposed to become extinct. I don't understand the thought process in putting so much stock in one writers words about a character who has had and many writers.

@Jayfournines said:

@Binder_full_of_Women said:

I read some early 52 Superman and Action Comics and gave up on them. Last I checked he was getting taken out by trains; now he's bench pressing planets. That's a crazy leap of power for such a short amount of time.

Action was supposed to take place about 10 years ago (Clark is young and his powers are developing). It's been mentioned through the New52 verse that Superman's powers are growing every day with sun exposure.

@CitizenBane: So now that Lobdell's taking the reigns of Superman, I guess that's what we're going to see, an uber-powered Superman...which I guess can be interesting depending on how his writing turns out. Eh, at least I enjoy Rocafort's pencils.

I read some early 52 Superman and Action Comics and gave up on them. Last I checked he was getting taken out by trains; now he's bench pressing planets. That's a crazy leap of power for such a short amount of time.

@Jayfournines said:

@Binder_full_of_Women said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Binder_full_of_Women said:

@SlimJ87D said:

I've been meaning to do this thread for a long long time, then I saw someone else do it and got excited but it wasn't done right. It actually was upsetting as no one was "allowed" to discuss, share or debate with one another.

It was done how i felt it should be done. I didn't have a problem with people discussing the feats mentioned. I had a problem with people using faulty physics and logic to try and wank their way into saying a feat is valid. People were debating on whether a moon could be considered a planet, just to say Superman could destroy a planet. Some users lied about feats and people were discussing things that never happened in the first place. One guy argued that picoseconds aren't sued to measure distance, another argued it did, and somehow they both thought they were agreeing with each other. Not exactly the type of productive debating you're trying to imply was happening. Which is why I asked for it to be locked. I wish your thread the best of luck.

You've got a great idea, but You can't limit people in this way in debate thread. When I've said that You should have made a blog I wasn't joking. There were people who were making respect threads in blogs and they were pretty popular.

Why can't I? It solves so many problems. Despite my pleas people were debating in the thread anyway. One of the longest debates were about Superman and the black hole feats. I informed everyone that in one instance it wasn't a black hole and superman accelerated to light speed only to escape the gravity. The other was about a mini black hole. I informed people that mini black holes are very different from astrophysical black holes; miniature black holes could have the event horizon the size of an atom and wouldn't be able to suck superman in. People continued using these arguments anyway. Some users said one thing in my thread and the complete opposite in another. People were lying about feats and getting debates started. Some changed their arguments to the complete opposite of views they held in another thread. Some didn't know the science behind the things they were saying. You cant have a productive debate this way. Who would have seen this blog? I didn't have any followers.

While I do agree that it would solve problem, I can tell you easily why you can't limit people...

...because they won't listen to you at all.

It's as simple as that. People do not like feeling censored; the instant you try to "enforce" your own rules in a public thread in a public forum...well, it all goes downhill. One can argue that it's illogical and impractical...but...eh, that's the way we (and by we I mean people all over the world) are. What you did, as in the thread itself, was a great idea; poorly executed IMO, but a great idea.

All those "debates"were was just people wanking. They can dress it up by calling it debating but that is all it was. The guy who made up feats and had people arguing about them even after I showed them that what they were talking about never happened. Wanking. The user who thought he knew better than a NASA scientist Wanking. The users who thought they were agreeing with each other. Wanking. That's all it is. Instead of just posting scans of the feats they want to claim happening they just used poorly applied science to try and wank their way into a feat. Even when whats shown in the picture contradicted what they were saying, they never relented. It was wanking. People got mad because I took away peoples ability to wank. If they had provided the three things I asked for and given me actual contradictions we could have discussed that. Instead people just continued debating imaginary feats. I censored wanking. The only people who would have a problem with my rules would be the people who do nothing but wank. Every single thread on this forum has rules set up in the OP. My Op rules were to have evidence of your claims if you want to counter a claim I've made. Instead people wanted to debate nothing and then get mad when I didn't let them; people couldn't find/see the feats that had been debunked because of these arguments. I've said my words and I don't want to make this into a thing. I'll bring up some feats later.

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Binder_full_of_Women said:

@SlimJ87D said:

I've been meaning to do this thread for a long long time, then I saw someone else do it and got excited but it wasn't done right. It actually was upsetting as no one was "allowed" to discuss, share or debate with one another.

It was done how i felt it should be done. I didn't have a problem with people discussing the feats mentioned. I had a problem with people using faulty physics and logic to try and wank their way into saying a feat is valid. People were debating on whether a moon could be considered a planet, just to say Superman could destroy a planet. Some users lied about feats and people were discussing things that never happened in the first place. One guy argued that picoseconds aren't sued to measure distance, another argued it did, and somehow they both thought they were agreeing with each other. Not exactly the type of productive debating you're trying to imply was happening. Which is why I asked for it to be locked. I wish your thread the best of luck.

You've got a great idea, but You can't limit people in this way in debate thread. When I've said that You should have made a blog I wasn't joking. There were people who were making respect threads in blogs and they were pretty popular.

Why can't I? It solves so many problems. Despite my pleas people were debating in the thread anyway. One of the longest debates were about Superman and the black hole feats. I informed everyone that in one instance it wasn't a black hole and superman accelerated to light speed only to escape the gravity. The other was about a mini black hole. I informed people that mini black holes are very different from astrophysical black holes; miniature black holes could have the event horizon the size of an atom and wouldn't be able to suck superman in. People continued using these arguments anyway. Some users said one thing in my thread and the complete opposite in another. People were lying about feats and getting debates started. Some changed their arguments to the complete opposite of views they held in another thread. Some didn't know the science behind the things they were saying. You cant have a productive debate this way. Who would have seen this blog? I didn't have any followers.

@SlimJ87D said:

I've been meaning to do this thread for a long long time, then I saw someone else do it and got excited but it wasn't done right. It actually was upsetting as no one was "allowed" to discuss, share or debate with one another.

It was done how i felt it should be done. I didn't have a problem with people discussing the feats mentioned. I had a problem with people using faulty physics and logic to try and wank their way into saying a feat is valid. People were debating on whether a moon could be considered a planet, just to say Superman could destroy a planet. Some users lied about feats and people were discussing things that never happened in the first place. One guy argued that picoseconds aren't sued to measure distance, another argued it did, and somehow they both thought they were agreeing with each other. Not exactly the type of productive debating you're trying to imply was happening. Which is why I asked for it to be locked. I wish your thread the best of luck.

@SlimJ87D:

Superman can fly at the speed of light or greater. He cannot battle at the speed of light or use his limbs to run at the speed of light. I did some debunking also but you didn't see my post.
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/debunking-the-wank-comic-feat-fact-check/712866/?page=14
But debating is fine, I debated for almost 2 or 3 pages with the scans I showed. it's the only way to get your point across and if you convince others it makes you more creditable.
BTW, where was the scan that says he's not faster than light? I need that to support further that he cannot battle at FTL.
Lastly, the hard part about debunking is having evidence that can't be contradicted. There are too many scans of Superman flying faster than light speed than there are of him not being able to do it. There are too many instances where Flash runs light speed and above and then he cannot. Citizenbane shared a scan of Flash running light speed all by himself and willingly risking himself with no ill effect. His post is here.

Then people should provide evidence showing he can. I didn't see your post because this thread has been cluttered with jibber jabber for 3 pages. Your feeling on debating has nothing to do with my requests. Comic title, issue number, unedited scans is how you get your point across. You wouldn't need to argue for 3 pages if people had followed the rules of my OP in the first place. If you want to debate then do it somewhere else. I dont mind chit chat here and there, but arguing for 4 pages about something neither party is willing to compromise on is pointless and counter productive.

"There is obviously going to be some conflicting writing in comics, so the only logical thing to do is go by those that are the most consistent. If both parties are right, it's only logical to go that route. But that would take compromise." I said this pages ago.

There actually aren't too many scans of superman flying faster than light. There is more hard evidence proving he doesn't have ftl speed than the claims from people saying he cant. The best some could try and wank their way into saying he is comes from batman's hyperbole and Kal's fight with Wonder Woman. The only reason why I allowed the wonder woman feat to begin with was because Maxwell lord monitored it with brother eye I didn't even factor in the birds that Wonder Woman called in, or the fact that they looked like they weren't fighting at super speeds, or Max could have been referring to the fight that happened when they crashed back down to earth. But there are factors to counter that as well. Needless argument avoided by just saying it was an FTL feat. This was me being generous, but somehow I'm being too close minded for some. Every other feat has been debunked. If you want to find those claims from superman you're going to after to use the directory in the Op.

I didn't see any such reply but If someone has found scans that counter mine then they should follow the rules of the OP and provide what I have asked of them. The fact that so many scans have been shown to be out of context you'd think people wouldn't have a such a problem with this.

@SlimJ87D said:

@Binder_full_of_Women: But this part of the forum is a debate forum. So if it's not meant to debate then you should move it to the general section or allow people to debate.

Instead of people posting scans of superman destroying a planet, people are debating whether a moon can be considered a planet. Pictures have been shown of superman saying he isn't faster than light and several scans of him failing to out maneuver light. Instead of responding with similar evidence proving the opposite people are debating the physics of a black hole and poorly at that. If this is what people choose to debate in battle threads, they're free to do so, in the thousands of other threads out there. I don't want this in my thread. This thread is set up to help and inform, you are seeking to argue almost endlessly. This isn't the thread for you if this is how you get your jollies. My thread shouldn't be moved because some people cant present an argument with actual evidence to support their beliefs. My thread shouldn't need to be moved, people need to be moved. I've said before, the only people who should have a problem with the rules of my thread are people who rely on unreliable sources, misinformation and wanking. They can do that anywhere, I don't want it here. I don't want to debate on why you think it should be allowed here. Your concerns are noted. You should note the lack of F's I give about complaints on why people should be allowed to argue endlessly instead of providing the evidence I asked for in my OP. Its simple If you cant follow the rules of my op, then please post somewhere else. Because what passes for debating to some look a lot like wanking to me. This thread is called debunking the wank, not argue using wank.

@XImpossibruX said:

@Binder_full_of_Women said:

Comic title, issue number, unedited scab. Provides proof of your claims, context of your claims; and eliminates the idiots who just spam pictures of feats who don't know if what they're posting is valid or not. What do I get instead? 4 pages of people arguing about science and poorly at that. You want to say superman can do this and that post a scan of him doing this and that. Im sick of coming back to this thread and having it derailed with shit I've asked kindly for you all to keep out of here. You want to debate science and math do it in the PM. Do it in the threads you typically do it in., But its not what i want in this thread. I don't care about your complaints about not being able to argue with people, take it to the private messages. This is why you cant have anything nice.

Hell yea!

I for one am glad someone took their time to debunk all this wank ^^

Thanks!! This is a lot of work, and I'm glad It's being appreciated. It just pisses me off, that a handful of people cant just follow the rules I have set up; Instead they would rather argue on why they shouldn't have to follow my rules, and then spam my thread for 4 pages with poorly applied physics. The rules of the op are designed to weed out nonsense. Who could complain about this, other than people who need to use nonsense to get their point across? The fact that the moderators aren't all that interested in helping me maintain control over this thread only annoys me even more. I'm almost to that point where I'm going to ask for the thread to be locked.

@RedLanternSuperman said:

@Binder_full_of_Women said:

Comic title, issue number, unedited scab. Provides proof of your claims, context of your claims; and eliminates the idiots who just spam pictures of feats who don't know if what they're posting is valid or not. What do I get instead? 4 pages of people arguing about science and poorly at that. You want to say superman can do this and that post a scan of him doing this and that. Im sick of coming back to this thread and having it derailed with shit I've asked kindly for you all to keep out of here. You want to debate science and math do it in the PM. Do it in the threads you typically do it in., But its not what i want in this thread. I don't care about your complaints about not being able to argue with people, take it to the private messages. This is why you cant have anything nice.

Because you are the hero Comicvine deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So idiots will spam, but you can take it. Because your not our hero, your our wank debunker, the scan protector, a comic knight.

This made my day, you have my thanks lol.

"And nanosecond has always been a measure of speed :p and so has picosecond. Light year and parsec are measure of distance nanosecond and picosecond are NOT." Killemall

"A light year is the distance travelled by light in a year and a light nanosecond is the distance travelled by light in the billionth of a second. "DocFatalis

@Super_SoldierXII said:

OP needs to start breathing through his nose.

People can debate what you purport to debunk in whichever way they want really. As long as they don't break forum rules and stay relative to the topic. To enforce otherwise borders on being a thread Nazi. Just because you OP'd the thread, doesn't mean you own it. It's a public forum. Personally, I could give a rats arse what you want in YOUR thread (It's not yours bud. Ya don't own it. Comic Vine does. Sorry.), as long as the aforementioned rules remain respected.

The problem of course being this is not a debate thread, which has frequently been explained. Being a thread nazi? How is asking people to follow the rules of my OP being a Nazi? Is it ok to go into other threads ignore the rules the OP has set up and start debating about cookie recipes in a Thor thread? If you cant follow the rules I set up which are in place for a reason then dont post here. It's not an unreasonable request The only people who should have a problem with the rules I have set up, are people who know oly to spam scans they dont know the context too. Spam scans they don't know are accurate or not. But somehow I'm an unreasonable jerk for wanting to inform with evidence rather than have people argue for 4 pages with x times y = superman can move 5 jugs of koolaid