#1 Edited by PrimeDirective (448 posts) - - Show Bio
Helspont

VS
Darkseid

Both are their New 52 incarnations. Don't fanboy answer, but do your homework and think about it before answering... Discuss!

#2 Posted by Shawnbaby (10869 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know if there really have been enough showings of either to get a real good impression of their capabilities...my gut says that Darkseid is gonna come out on top though.

#3 Edited by PrimeDirective (448 posts) - - Show Bio

All I know is Martian Manhunter was able to fight the Justice League by himself, and just one of Helspont's agents mopped the floor with him. Seeing as how Superman can't even scratch Helspont and how one of his servants can best MM, I'd say they're a hell of a lot more even than initial thoughts would suggest. This is the fight that I look forward to seeing in the comics most right now... jobber/PIS/CIS free mind you.

#4 Posted by Shawnbaby (10869 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrimeDirective said:

All I know is Martian Manhunter was able to fight the Justice League by himself, and just one of Helspont's agents mopped the floor with him. Seeing as how Superman can't even scratch Helspont and how one of his servants can best MM, I'd say they're a hell of a lot more even than initial thoughts would suggest. This is the fight that I look forward to seeing in the comics most right now... jobber/PIS/CIS free mind you.

That happens all the time in comics though. A new villain is introduced (or re-introduced) and totally dominates the Hero in their first engagement...and then in the rematch the hero wins in a tough battle..then after a few more appearances the hero can totally just wipe the floor with the guy.

#5 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shawnbaby: nope he whipped superman twice in two different appearances

#6 Edited by Shawnbaby (10869 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@Shawnbaby: nope he whipped superman twice in two different appearances

All I'm saying is we don't have enough for a real baseline on either of them yet.

For example: Back during the Clone Saga Kaine was able to easily handle both Spider-Man and the Scarlet Spider at the same time during his first few appearances. Few appearances later, Spider-Man takes him down alone in a couple of pages.

#7 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shawnbaby: aquaman was badass for stabbing DS in the eye though, props to the man with the giant ass fork

#8 Edited by PrimeDirective (448 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shawnbaby: That may happen with Helspont but I don't think so. If Lex Luthor is still to Superman what Joker is to Batman, they're almost shaping Helspont into being the equivalent of Ra's al Ghul. I've never seen Batman win against Ra's in a couple pages. Maybe over an entire story arc, but never a couple pages and never without a bit of help. Helspont has been shown to overcome Superman with ease to the point where I'm pretty sure we can label it manhandling. We can't discount that based on something that may or may not ever happen.

EDIT: We can't discount that based on something that may or may not ever happen.

#9 Posted by Shawnbaby (10869 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrimeDirective said:

@Shawnbaby: That may happen with Helspont but I don't think so. If Lex Luthor is still to Superman what Joker is to Batman, they're almost shaping Helspont into being the equivalent of Ra's al Ghul. I've never seen Batman win against Ra's in a couple pages. Maybe over an entire story arc, but never a couple pages and never without a bit of help. Helspont has been shown to overcome Superman with ease to the point where I'm pretty sure we can label it manhandling. We can discount that based on something that may or may not ever happen.

Could be...I'm just saying that it's a little soon to say for certain.

#10 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP.

#11 Posted by PrimeDirective (448 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant: I appreciate the bump and all, but don't you have aany input to add?

#12 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

So far? Helspont's winning. He gave Supes a concussion with a pimpslap

#13 Posted by PrimeDirective (448 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jayfournines: Also, Helspont has just casually mentioned Apokalips and New Genesis like they were just another place he knew of/had visited. While not a feat in of itself, Helspont sounded none-too-impressed with either place. Anyone who can take a "yeah, whatever..." attitude about Apokalips either is grossly ignorant to its dangers, or is too much of a monster himself to consider it worth his time. If it's the latter, OH DEAR GOD!!!

#14 Posted by Onemoreposter (4101 posts) - - Show Bio

'Seid omega beams helspont into oblivion.

#15 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12273 posts) - - Show Bio

Helspont

#16 Posted by XiiX (9474 posts) - - Show Bio

(From what I'm reading/hearing) Probably Helspont.

#17 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrimeDirective said:

@jeanroygrant: I appreciate the bump and all, but don't you have aany input to add?

No, that's why i bumped it, to see more on these characters.

#18 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

uh, almost no info as of now but Imma go with Helspont. Supes did manage to scratch him a bit but he managed to push Darkseid all the way to the boomtunnel and the Justice League was able to take care of the biz. Helspont in his first fight jobbed a bit or atleast he was toying around with Supes trying to see what he was capable off. In the annual he seemed much stronger and that may not be his final level. So, I give it to Helspont 7/10

#19 Posted by IZZR (4283 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Edited by PrimeDirective (448 posts) - - Show Bio

@Onemoreposter: In the New 52, Superman survived an omega beam to the back. Helspont is waaaaaaaay more durable than Superman.

@IZZR: We're going with New 52 versions. Pre-Flashpoint stuff ain't gonna cut it here.

Also, I love that Helspont is being taken seriously here. I loved him in Wildstorm and seeing this only gives me high hopes for his future is the DC mainstream.

#21 Posted by Quntumking (215 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkseid. The reason is the entire JL battled Darkseid and it was a major battle. Superman kinda held his own against Helspont.

#22 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

There aren't enough showings of most anyone in N52 for them to be in the battles forum.

The exception to this are possibly Flash and Hal Jordan. Hal being supremely weak and depowered.

#23 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@Quntumking said:

Darkseid. The reason is the entire JL battled Darkseid and it was a major battle. Superman kinda held his own against Helspont.

Not in their second battle. Not by any means. Helspont laughed at Superman's best. In the end, Superman realized that Helspont was merely toying with him in their first fight.

#24 Posted by Onemoreposter (4101 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrimeDirective said:

@Onemoreposter: In the New 52, Superman survived an omega beam to the back. Helspont is waaaaaaaay more durable than Superman.

Not from what we've seen in the DCnU. We know that Superman legitimately kicked Helspont's a$$. All we know about Darkseid so far is that he fired a blast that put Superman down and that sometimes the JLA gets transported to Apokolips and the don't dig that none to much.

As far as the DCnU is concerned, 'seid is going to be a much bigger threat than Helspont.

#25 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@Onemoreposter said:

@PrimeDirective said:

@Onemoreposter: In the New 52, Superman survived an omega beam to the back. Helspont is waaaaaaaay more durable than Superman.

Not from what we've seen in the DCnU. We know that Superman legitimately kicked Helspont's a$$. All we know about Darkseid so far is that he fired a blast that put Superman down and that sometimes the JLA gets transported to Apokolips and the don't dig that none to much.

As far as the DCnU is concerned, 'seid is going to be a much bigger threat than Helspont.

Nope. See my post right above this one.

#26 Posted by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

New 52 Darkseid was underwhelming,Johns did'nt make him job like Loeb and the Countdown writers but he did'nt impress me much.Seemed like a grunt with nasty eye rays than Darkseid.But then Johns JL seems like it's being written by a 4 year old so...

#27 Posted by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrimeDirective said:

@Shawnbaby: That may happen with Helspont but I don't think so. If Lex Luthor is still to Superman what Joker is to Batman, they're almost shaping Helspont into being the equivalent of Ra's al Ghul. I've never seen Batman win against Ra's in a couple pages. Maybe over an entire story arc, but never a couple pages and never without a bit of help. Helspont has been shown to overcome Superman with ease to the point where I'm pretty sure we can label it manhandling. We can't discount that based on something that may or may not ever happen.

EDIT: We can't discount that based on something that may or may not ever happen.

I have twice,but that was BS.

#28 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

New 52 Darkseid was underwhelming,Johns did'nt make him job like Loeb and the Countdown writers but he did'nt impress me much.Seemed like a grunt with nasty eye rays than Darkseid.But then Johns JL seems like it's being written by a 4 year old so...

I felt the same way. Morph wrote a very passionate and detailed post about this very same thing when it came out. Miss that guy...

#29 Posted by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@entropy_aegis said:

New 52 Darkseid was underwhelming,Johns did'nt make him job like Loeb and the Countdown writers but he did'nt impress me much.Seemed like a grunt with nasty eye rays than Darkseid.But then Johns JL seems like it's being written by a 4 year old so...

I felt the same way. Morph wrote a very passionate and detailed post about this very same thing when it came out. Miss that guy...

He disappeared moments before I sent him a pm...

Can you post a link? would be appreciated.

#30 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@Erik said:

@entropy_aegis said:

New 52 Darkseid was underwhelming,Johns did'nt make him job like Loeb and the Countdown writers but he did'nt impress me much.Seemed like a grunt with nasty eye rays than Darkseid.But then Johns JL seems like it's being written by a 4 year old so...

I felt the same way. Morph wrote a very passionate and detailed post about this very same thing when it came out. Miss that guy...

He disappeared moments before I sent him a pm...

Can you post a link? would be appreciated.

I cannot. The post was in a PM between him, some mutual friends and myself.

#31 Posted by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Erik said:

@entropy_aegis said:

New 52 Darkseid was underwhelming,Johns did'nt make him job like Loeb and the Countdown writers but he did'nt impress me much.Seemed like a grunt with nasty eye rays than Darkseid.But then Johns JL seems like it's being written by a 4 year old so...

I felt the same way. Morph wrote a very passionate and detailed post about this very same thing when it came out. Miss that guy...

He disappeared moments before I sent him a pm...

Can you post a link? would be appreciated.

I cannot. The post was in a PM between him, some mutual friends and myself.

Awww,no problem though.

#32 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis:

I wish I still had the PM. If I did, I would have just copy/pasted his magical words.

/celebrity crush

#33 Posted by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik: No prob,any reason why he left?

#34 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@Erik: No prob,any reason why he left?

Wish I could tell you. I just logged on one day and he was gone. I asked all our mutual friends and apparently, he told no one he was going or why. It makes me wonder if it is like last time he went missing for a few months, which turned out to be a computer issue. One can only pray he will return.

#35 Posted by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Erik: No prob,any reason why he left?

Wish I could tell you. I just logged on one day and he was gone. I asked all our mutual friends and apparently, he told no one he was going or why. It makes me wonder if it is like last time he went missing for a few months, which turned out to be a computer issue. One can only pray he will return.

I worry he might end up losing his moderator status due to that.

#36 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@Erik said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Erik: No prob,any reason why he left?

Wish I could tell you. I just logged on one day and he was gone. I asked all our mutual friends and apparently, he told no one he was going or why. It makes me wonder if it is like last time he went missing for a few months, which turned out to be a computer issue. One can only pray he will return.

I worry he might end up losing his moderator status due to that.

He did last time too but they gave it back once he returned. They just could not stand his indifference on the issue and decided to punish him by returning the mod tag lol.

#37 Posted by ChaosMarvel (1000 posts) - - Show Bio

Helspont seems to have slightly better showings. Although I don't think either of them have enough yet.

#38 Posted by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Erik said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Erik: No prob,any reason why he left?

Wish I could tell you. I just logged on one day and he was gone. I asked all our mutual friends and apparently, he told no one he was going or why. It makes me wonder if it is like last time he went missing for a few months, which turned out to be a computer issue. One can only pray he will return.

I worry he might end up losing his moderator status due to that.

He did last time too but they gave it back once he returned. They just could not stand his indifference on the issue and decided to punish him by returning the mod tag lol.

LMAO.

#39 Posted by JayMar89 (91 posts) - - Show Bio

From what we have seen so far in the new 52 helspont takes this from his showings in supes annual

#40 Edited by PrimeDirective (448 posts) - - Show Bio

@Quntumking: Darkseid fought the entire Justice league to a stand still huh? So did Martian Manhunter... And just one of Helspont's underlings embued with a fraction of Helspont's power thrashed Martian Manhunter. How's that work?

@Onemoreposter: Superman NEVER did anything to scratch Helspont. Helspont was just toying with Kal the entire time. That picture in the first post? That's all Kal's blood, not Helspont's.When Helspont was no longer amused, he put Superman down... hard.

#41 Posted by Funcake (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrimeDirective: When did Martian Manhunter to fight the entire Justice League. Can you show some scans please?

#42 Posted by Death Certificate (5408 posts) - - Show Bio

@Funcake:

#43 Edited by Funcake (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@Death Certificate: only this one?

This scan is meaningless until Manhunter shows he can hold his own against JL more than a single picture. In the next second he can be overpowered and get beaten thanks to Flash, Superman and WW etc.

#44 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Funcake said:

@Death Certificate: only this one?

This scan is meaningless until Manhunter shows he can hold his own against JL more than a single picture. In the next second he can be overpowered and get beaten thanks to Flash, Superman and WW etc.

The context of the comic does not suggest that they turned around and beat him. It suggests more that he got what he wanted and left. Scenes with MM after that have him saying to himself that the Justice League wasn't ready for something that was coming later, adding further context, and the idea that MM was just testing them to prepare them. Given that there's not much to go on for the characters involved in this fight, even this little bit can be useful. A character that gave the entire league at least some trouble was one-shotted by a minion of Helspont sporting a portion of his power, and Helspont himself one-shotted the most powerful member of that team with an effortless backhand.

Moderator
#45 Posted by Kempororyusenjin (4 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot:

I really hope one day we can have an epic showdown between Helspont and Darkseid.

#46 Edited by PrimeDirective (448 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kempororyusenjin said:

@Buckshot:

I really hope one day we can have an epic showdown between Helspont and Darkseid.

This times infinity... It's THE fight to see in DC right now. Kind of why I made this topic.

@Funcake: Martian Manhunter has pretty well shown himself to be a tier above people like Apollo and Superman. In the New 52, so far among Earth's heroes, he's in the top slot pretty much uncontested. Captain Atom and Firestorm maybe a bit more powerful, but they're still trying to get ahold of their powers. Martian Manhunter has sick nasty precision and fine-tuned control of his own abilities, which are plenty powerful in their own right.

#47 Posted by Funcake (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot: @PrimeDirective: Okay, I see the point. But I dont see Superman, Flash or WW hitting him or even "realy" react to him before he went away.Helspont said two times that Superman is the most powerful being on the planet not MM, CA or FS. Faild Helspont only with his essessment? Finaly it was not realy a serious fight for JL if only what MM did is to jump in the middle of the screen to hit GL, grab WW´s lasso, shot HV on Superman and take some defense against Aquamans weapon. Thats not enough for me to cal it a fight or a test. It´s mabe better I see their encounter with my own eyes.

And could you tel me please from wich comic is this scan?

#48 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Funcake: You don't see Superman, Flash or WW hitting him, but what you do see is Flash on the ground with battle damage, Aquaman with obvious damage being completely ineffective, Hal looking to be thrown back at Cyborg, Superman under attack, and Wonder Woman's best weapon not doing its job. Along with that you get the Justice League admitting that the whole situation with MM ended badly for them and he got away with what he wanted without them even knowing where he went. If they'd beaten him, do you think they'd say it ended badly? Do you think he'd have gotten away? I'm not saying it's decisive proof of his superiority, but him being able to engage them all and them not being able to stop him does suggest that he is a threat to the group. Yes, it's just one picture, but the context clearly suggests some things about Martian Manhunter. As for Helspont's statements, it would surprise me not at all if he meant that Superman is most powerful in terms of physical power since there are clearly people that can beat him. Him having people who could take him on Earth and him being the most powerful don't have to contradict. It makes more sense given that Helspont calls him the most powerful and then beats him with a physical attack. It makes the clear point that whatever else may be true, the most physically robust character on the planet at the time cannot withstand even a weak physical attack from Helspont.

Moderator
#49 Posted by Needlebay (1967 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't forget Captain Atom and possibly Swamp Thing. Superman isn't the most powerful on earth. Far from it. Helspont hasn't shown that he could take the most powerful DC has...YET.

#50 Posted by Dextersinister (6512 posts) - - Show Bio

I am 90% certain that DS intentionally left the JL alive for some reason, he could have ended it by cracking Hal's neck just as easily as he cracked his arm then walk away or boom tube back a moment later but we will need to wait for his next appearance to confirm my theory.