How strong are gokus blasts and how much is his durability?

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#1 Edited by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone know??

#2 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

is he strong enough to destroy the Sun?

#3 Posted by SOG7dc (7025 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman: I would say from watching dbz all the way up into the buu saga Goku at SS3 is likely and logically imo, a solar system buster. people don't like abc logic but abc logic is pretty much what DBZ is. if frieza in his first form can destroy an entire planet f superheroes with a flick of his finger then goku in SS3, who would turn frieza into pudding in frieza's most powerful state, is logically much much much more powerful than that

#4 Posted by Perethorn (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

He is a planet buster. I'm sure of that.

Durability wise, i say he doesn't survive a planetary level explosion, he is below that.

#5 Posted by Fallschirmjager (16881 posts) - - Show Bio

Cell stated he could blow up the solar system. Assuming this is a true, and he was equal to an SS2 and SSJ3 is several times stronger - multi solar system level seems logical and is acceptable.

Of course, depending on who you ask, he is omnipotent.

#6 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

He is a planet buster. I'm sure of that.

Durability wise, i say he doesn't survive a planetary level explosion, he is below that.

But Broly destroyed an entire galaxy!

#7 Edited by Perethorn (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

@perethorn said:

He is a planet buster. I'm sure of that.

Durability wise, i say he doesn't survive a planetary level explosion, he is below that.

But Broly destroyed an entire galaxy!

No.

#8 Edited by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

Frieza attested that goku's death would be either from him doing it himself or the planet namek blowing up where he would have no air to breathe. He said "Your death is inevitable since you can't survive in space" not because of the large planetary explosion. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111111912/2953246-5245098331-1jurz.jpg.

Freiza tries his best at 50% of his Final form power to obliterate goku. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/124813/2743285-goku_durable_tanking_frieza_s_blows.jpg.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/124813/2743286-goku_durable_tanking_frieza_s_blows2.jpg.

^ Frieza can easily destroy planets in his base form and yet he couldn't do shit to goku with his ki blasts which were all more formidable than a planetary explosion. Proof: Goku gives evidence that it was much harder for frieza to destroy him then it was planets. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/69026/1281799-db_v27_081.gif.

Even SSJ trunks did a ki blast identical to freiza's agasinst goku and it obliterated frieza's whole body whereas frieza survived nameks explosion with some of his body still intact with the little ki he had, which means that the ki blast trunks did was leagues more formidable that nameks explosion. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121218194740/the-dragon-ball/images/0/00/DBZ_Manga_Chapter_332_-_SS_F_Trunks_Shining_Sword_Attack2.png.

Goku did something the same with cell with ki blasts to try and disintegrate cell. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/325942-cell_android_barrier_1_super.gif.

A portion of SSJ goku's ki allowed frieza to survive the kamehameha and nameks explosion. In this scan frieza was about to die and he begged goku for some ki, goku gave him a "little". http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/14/149746/3274947-3256969-goku%2Bgives%2Bfrieza%2Benergy.jpg.

^ With that little ki, frieza was able to survive goku's kamehameha wave head on. http://cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/ac/acd2bdb70843a1fd812d7d438ca320704619fd9a6891d51aca9e11c1.jpg.

And nameks planetary explosion. http://i49.tinypic.com/14j6c0n.jpg. This already means goku's durability as a SSJ when he fought frieza was leagues ahead of large planetary explosion.

Also freiza himself, who was weaker than SSJ goku can take large planetary explosions and would only lose "SOME" energy. Here frieza was talking to himself about what he should do. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/3/37144/1127653-screenshot014.jpg. This means frieza can take multiple large planetary explosions before he gets seriously damaged if only one would make him lose some energy. Keep in mind frieza prior to this tanked goku's 20x kamehameha, a Large spirit bomb of genki (life energy) from nameks planetary system and was already weakened from fighting goku. lol

Based on evidence form the frieza saga alone both goku's and frieza's durability are on Multi large planet level - Small star level at max.

By the time SSJ2 and SSJ3 comes around goku is easily on Multi solar system level +.

#9 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

Frieza attested that goku's death would be either from him doing it himself or the planet namek blowing up where he would have no air to breathe. He said "Your death is inevitable since you can't survive in space" not because of the large planetary explosion. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111111912/2953246-5245098331-1jurz.jpg.

Freiza tries his best at 50% of his Final form power to obliterate goku. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/124813/2743285-goku_durable_tanking_frieza_s_blows.jpg.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/124813/2743286-goku_durable_tanking_frieza_s_blows2.jpg.

^ Frieza can easily destroy planets in his base form and yet he couldn't do shit to goku with his ki blasts which were all more formidable than a planetary explosion. Proof: Goku gives evidence that it was much harder for frieza to destroy him then it was planets. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/69026/1281799-db_v27_081.gif.

Even SSJ trunks did a ki blast identical to freiza's agasinst goku and it obliterated frieza's whole body whereas frieza survived nameks explosion with some of his body still intact with the little ki he had, which means that the ki blast trunks did was leagues more formidable that nameks explosion. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121218194740/the-dragon-ball/images/0/00/DBZ_Manga_Chapter_332_-_SS_F_Trunks_Shining_Sword_Attack2.png.

Goku did something the same with cell with ki blasts to try and disintegrate cell. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/325942-cell_android_barrier_1_super.gif.

A portion of SSJ goku's ki allowed frieza to survive the kamehameha and nameks explosion. In this scan frieza was about to die and he begged goku for some ki, goku gave him a "little". http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/14/149746/3274947-3256969-goku%2Bgives%2Bfrieza%2Benergy.jpg.

^ With that little ki, frieza was able to survive goku's kamehameha wave head on. http://cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/ac/acd2bdb70843a1fd812d7d438ca320704619fd9a6891d51aca9e11c1.jpg.

And nameks planetary explosion. http://i49.tinypic.com/14j6c0n.jpg. This already means goku's durability as a SSJ when he fought frieza was leagues ahead of large planetary explosion.

Also freiza himself, who was weaker than SSJ goku can take large planetary explosions and would only lose "SOME" energy. Here frieza was talking to himself about what he should do. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/3/37144/1127653-screenshot014.jpg. This means frieza can take multiple large planetary explosions before he gets seriously damaged if only one would make him lose some energy. Keep in mind frieza prior to this tanked goku's 20x kamehameha, a Large spirit bomb of genki (life energy) from nameks planetary system and was already weakened from fighting goku. lol

Based on evidence form the frieza saga alone both goku's and frieza's durability are on Multi large planet level - Small star level at max.

By the time SSJ2 and SSJ3 comes around goku is easily on Multi solar system level +.

Very nice you explained it very well but goku was killed by a backyard sized explosion in cell saga why was that?

#10 Edited by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman: Well according to toriyama at the time it was basically a plot device for goku to die because he wanted gohan to take over as the hero but it didn't work out as the series progressed. Toriyama wanted to kill goku off and that was the only cheap way to do it. lol This was also stressed in the manga where goku himself said that he would rather stay dead even when he was offered to be wished back to life. So it was a obvious plot device but to make it more believable most fans just see it like goku heavily suppressed himself during the time cell self destructed. This is also another proof: 2nd form cell is seriously weaker than Max SSJ goku.

Even if 2nd form cell did gather his entire ki in a form of an explosion goku would easily be able to tank that. That's like saying if freiza gathered all of his ki and concentrated it at Super vegeta, he would die. lol Obviously Super vegeta has an abundance of ki enough to defend himself against a petty attack that has much lesser ki than his body has. 2nd form cell concentrated a galik gun on super vegeta and it didn't do anything watsoever. So it would be bullshit to believe 2nd form cell can destroy MSSJ goku with his ki explosion. But even so, that explosion cell did was no joke, he has ki leagues above frieza and as i proved with manga scans, frieza was already on multi large planet level to small star level at max.

#11 Edited by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

Also keep in mind the insane power of a Genki (life energy) dama/Spirit bomb. We can build from here and tell just how power simple ki blasts are.

King kai explains that the genki dama can be filled with energy from plants, animals, inanimate objects, stars, atmosphere, trees and grass. He adds if this energy is not controlled well it can easily destroy planets. Also from what king kai said, goku gathered a good amount of energy from king kai's small planet alone. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/8494/253775-dbz_105_super.jpg.

He can also gather energy from seas and even the earth's core like he did when fighting vegeta. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/337578-smallest_genki_dama_has_energy_from_the_core_super.jpg.

Now here against frieza, it was the first time goku did a large sprit bomb. Notice that the energy he gathered was from nameks planetary system or like krillin puts it "neighboring planets".

1) http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/356489-gd_1_super.gif.

2) http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/356491-gd_3_super.gif.

There at least 2 things to consider. Namek was locked on to 3 stars which means the rest of the planets goku gathered energy from were just as large as namek or if not that, namek's planetary system was very large and contained much more planets than our planetary system.Frieza tanked the spirit bomb and he was only at 50% of his power at the time. He wasn't even near death or injured just had a black eye lol. http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dragon_Ball-buyao_daolian_ya/0.jp_Kanzenban/DRAGONBALLvol22/041-AcoFH.jpg. Just to show you how crazy that is, Our planetary system consists of Earth, mars, jupiter, mercury, uranus, neptune, venus and saturn. Like was said before, king kai mentioned that the energy goku gathered from his planet was pretty powerful and king kai's planet is very very small with little life their so imagine taking the energy force of an entire planetary system concentrated into one ball of energy. Thats some serious shit.

Now despite that regular SSJ's can one shot freiza with ease. Trunks kis blast >>> Large sprit bomb - http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121218194740/the-dragon-ball/images/0/00/DBZ_Manga_Chapter_332_-_SS_F_Trunks_Shining_Sword_Attack2.png.

The supreme kai's said to easily one shot frieza with a single blast. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/38272/706189-703333-14.jpg. Based on all these facts, simple ki blasts from people like regular SSJ's and on are easily leagues stronger than an energy ball made up from an entire planetary system. Guess how many transformations and people far surpasses regular SSJ and th supreme kai's power. Here: Ascended SSJ's, MSSJ's, SSJ2, SSJ3, Ultimate gohan, All buu's, Vegetto, Bills, Whis, SSJ god etc. If we use logic based on these manga scans i posted and later scans, they can easily generate ki blasts equivalent to Multiple solar - Multple star systems +.

#12 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

First ask which energy move? Second find out how strong he is without any of the super sayein forms and kaiyoken. This data can be difficult since Goku continues to make himself stronger. There are a lot other factors kick in. Remember Goku can still be defeated by disease or no oxygen for long time. This may be considered cheap but hey less property damage.

#13 Edited by NukeA6 (469 posts) - - Show Bio

At the highest, Goku would be a small star buster at the end of the Buu saga with his durability being around there (for the most part). There were no solar system busters until Battle of the Gods because if there were, why did Buu destroy planets one by one? Even the Spirit Bomb that killed him wasn't close to being that powerful.

#14 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

First ask which energy move? Second find out how strong he is without any of the super sayein forms and kaiyoken. This data can be difficult since Goku continues to make himself stronger. There are a lot other factors kick in. Remember Goku can still be defeated by disease or no oxygen for long time. This may be considered cheap but hey less property damage.

how strong is his strongest energy move?

#15 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Edited by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman: Important things to note that the spirit bomb is Goku’s strongest technique but it is not very effective on beings with positive energy aka beings that are good. The spirit bomb is effective on on evil and anything neutral. The spirit bomb was only that strong in the Buu saga because of assistance. The biggest negative of the spirit bomb is that it is very slow and leaves him vulnerable. It is damaging since it is technique from the gods.

Did you ask for with or without combinations

#18 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@hazlenaut said:

@theamazingbatman: Important things to note that the spirit bomb is Goku’s strongest technique but it is not very effective on beings with positive energy aka beings that are good. The spirit bomb is effective on on evil and anything neutral. The spirit bomb was only that strong in the Buu saga because of assistance. The biggest negative of the spirit bomb is that it is very slow and leaves him vulnerable. It is damaging since it is technique from the gods.

Did you ask for with or without combinations

What combinations??

#19 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by Mortein (2837 posts) - - Show Bio

Most likely, EOS Goku has multi solar system level destructive power.

Durability of DBZ characters is roughly the same or slightly below their destructive power.

Not counting the spirit bomb

#21 Posted by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@hazlenaut I agree that goku's strongest technique is the spirit bomb. But the kamehameha can also be just as strong or stronger than the spirit bomb depending on how much energy the SB has. Its been hinted that at SSJ3, goku had more than enough ki to obliterate kid buu just like the super spirit bomb did. Goku let the fight drag out and this is the reason why he couldn't generate enough ki so he asked vegeta to give him a minute. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/7277/246874-buunoprob_super.png.

Unfortunately goku couldn't gather the energy because of the strain SSJ3 gave him on his living body which he wasn't use too at the time.http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/145586/3216662-power+out.jpg.

#22 Edited by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman: Well their are some scans to get a significant strength level. In dbz its good to note that physical strength is not dependent on muscle or lifting strength but goku's physical combat strength or battle power is dependent on how much ki he has. This is called a Kiai strike in the diazenshuu.

The same physical strength trunks used to cut through frieza didn't do remotely anything to goku as he charged his ki into one finger.

1) http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7413/1153732dbv28134super.jpg. 2) http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124813/2683308-goku_block_trunks_sword.gif.

The Cell jr's far surpass frieza, regular SSJ's and the androids in physical power and durability. They can easily take both vegeta and trunks physical attacks as ascended SSJ's and deal the same amount of damage back.

1) http://media.animevice.com/uploads/2/29606/551451-db34pg159_super.jpg. 2) http://media.animevice.com/uploads/2/29606/551450-db34pg158_super.jpg

Notice how teen gohan as a SSJ2 easily takes care of the cell jr's with single attacks. Keep in mind he wasn't even trying.

1)http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110801193653/dragonball/images/6/64/MangaPage.gif. 2) http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a238/YBM/Dragon%20Ball%20Manga%20Panels/SuperSaiyan2SonGohanKillsMoreCellJuniors.jpg.

Goku as a SSJ2 would have a feat better than even this since SSJ2 goku is stronger than SSJ2 teen gohan. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/2/29606/608393-drago.jpg.

SSJ3 goku can trade blows with kid buu, the same person who can push back the force of a Super spirit bomb with his bare hands. This is pretty insane considering that the genki dama not only had life energy from the whole human race and a portion from the Z fighters but also some from other world, like king yemma and his crew and even old kai, kibito kai and some of the namekians on new namek. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/8494/265330-spirit_bomb_energy2_super.gif.

SSJ3 goku in battle of gods punched a hole through king kai's planet. Even though king kai's planet is a dwarf planet it holds 10x gravity which means the planet is incredibly tough and dense. The density of earth is 5.52 g/cm³ and its gravity is 9.78 m/s². Considering king kai's planet is 10x the gravity of earth and goku punched a hole through it easily, he can easily one shot our entire moon.

The moon's gravity is 1.622 m/s² and has a mass 1/80 earth's mass. By this, king kai's planet even though its much smaller, it will still be much harder to destroy or damage king kai's planet then it is our moon because of such the intense gravity it makes up for. Another reason this is a good feat is because goku didn't need any speed to back him up. If goku was was in high speed flightmode and landed that same punch it would be leagues more stronger. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/84223/3097627-7260401423-ssj3g.png.

People like SSJ3 gotenks, Ultimate gohan, The super buu's, Vegetto, Bills, whis and SSJ god are all stronger than SSJ3 goku. It would be a headache to try and calculate their physical power but it wouldn't be pretty. lol

All we know is that bills and SSJ god with their speed and physical strength, they can destroy entire planetary systems with their physical attacks easily. Bills smashed through 7 planets that were all located inside a gas nebula which means those planets were dense and had gravity far beyond what we know. Bills was only at 70% of his power at the time and SSJ god goku is only a little weaker than that which means he can achieve the same feat. Here's the gas nebula:

http://imageshack.us/a/img32/9602/zcoq.png.

Here bills start to smash the planets going MFTL. http://imageshack.us/a/img69/3593/5mt2.png.

#23 Posted by Chibi_cute (4527 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Posted by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Edited by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio
@mortein said:

Most likely, EOS Goku has multi solar system level destructive power.

Durability of DBZ characters is roughly the same or slightly below their destructive power.

Not counting the spirit bomb

what's EOS goku?

#26 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

ssj3 goku punched king kai's planet with his most powerful punch , he was not holding back.

#27 Posted by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't put this much thought in my job in the lab...

#28 Posted by Mortein (2837 posts) - - Show Bio

@mortein said:

Most likely, EOS Goku has multi solar system level destructive power.

Durability of DBZ characters is roughly the same or slightly below their destructive power.

Not counting the spirit bomb

what's EOS goku?

EOS stands for "end of series"

#29 Posted by alcoholbob (1192 posts) - - Show Bio

He is a planet buster. I'm sure of that.

Durability wise, i say he doesn't survive a planetary level explosion, he is below that.

He tanked Bills Supernova attack at the end of Battle of Gods, your say is baseless.

#30 Edited by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegetto1990:

See right there that is the reliance on the super sayein forms. I talked in my sayein form in my blog here

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/hazlenaut/blog/saying-saiyan-power-not-the-best/80464/

Yeah the spirit bomb is not that effective once goku turns into super sayein forms. I had hoped that talk about super sayein god mode in the next movie was actually a kaiyoken mode or goku's full potential. If it is then Goku will not be angry which means no negative energy. No negative energy means he can do the spirit bomb without fading.

I had talk of combination which spirit bomb absorb in Super Sayein form then kamihameha but that seems risky. it is a way but he has to do it instantly. this can be done with dragon fist which has been scene in the Budaki games. Either way the other method full potential and spirit bomb will do better.

#31 Edited by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Edited by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

: @hazlenaut GT was Bullshit and heavily inconsistent with feats.

#33 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio
#34 Edited by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@hazlenaut: Their's no way to really know exactly how strong he is unless we abuse powerscaling. But their are some facts and scans to get a general idea of where's he at. Based on my last comments about goku, at SSJ3 he is on Multi Solar system level + at max. SSJG is light speeds ahead of SSJ3. lol Toriyama mentions how goku and bills were so strong that they reached a breaking point and that Bills power is "Dimensions" above all previous enemies which would also include Super Buu (Ultimate gohan absorbed) http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/battle-of-gods-promotional-pamphlet-2-akira-toriyama/.

Even though Bills is stronger than God goku, based on what toriyama says here goku is not leagues far behind him. He says Current goku would be a 6, Bills is a 10 and Whis a 15. This means bills is slightly less than 2x stronger than goku but whis is a beast since he would be 2x + stronger than goku. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/battle-gods-animanga-akira-toriyama/.Before Battle of gods, Vegetto was the strongest character in Dbz, he was basically already a god in my eyes. Vegetto's fusion is the Multiplicative result of Goku X Vegeta, yeah that's literally "MULTIPLYING" Goku's Battle power by vegeta's. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/233746-vegito__super.png.

Just to show you how absurd that is in more detail, goku's last known battle power at base form was 3,000,000 (Million). Even if we were to multiply goku's power at that time with someone equal to him you will get a Battle power that will fuck your life over. lol 3,000,000 X 3,000,000 = 9,000,000,000,000 (Trillion). Goku has gotten much stronger during the time buu arc came around. Super vegetto is easily on the level of Dozens x Dozens of star systems +. Sad to say, bills and god goku has a such a higher form of power called "Godly Ki", its on a different level from any type of ki we ever saw in dbz and it can't even be sensed by humans, namekians or other saiyans and aliens. I have goku and bills on Small galaxy level at max. This is just a general calculation it could be a little more or a little less but they are definitely in that range.

#35 Edited by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegetto1990: SSJ god is stronger than ssj 4 goku??? Is it true that goku at the start of dbgt was stronger than his ssj3 form??? if this is true then he is 4000 times stronger than his ssj 3 form??? is omega shenron a galaxy buster??

#36 Posted by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman: Yeah SSJ God is leagues stronger than SSJ4. Even Super vegetto >> SSJ4 goku. Goku did receive a massive amount of power in GT, in his base form he was around his SSJ3 level in buu saga. Overall until he went SSJ4, goku would be several thousand times + stronger in GT than in Z. That still doesn't compare to Super vegetto who is Goku X Vegeta. In essence, Super vegetto would be a billion times + stronger than goku from Z. SSJ god > Super vegetto.

Omega is not a galaxy buster but rather a galaxy - Universe wiper. His negative karma ball upon exploding is said to travel and spread from every life form and planet in the universe. It'll wipe out galaxy after galaxy until the universe is destroyed. But it is not a galaxy busting in an instant, this negative energy spreads so it gradually destroy a galaxy than the universe as it keeps spreading. Old kai claims that not only would the energy spread throughout the universe but somehow even the afterlife would be destroyed. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/262292-gt5_super.jpg.

This is nothing new because Old kai also said that Buu had the power not only to destroy the universe but the afterlife as well. He was so sure of this, that he gave goku his life to use the potara earrings and fuse. Omega just has it more easier because he wouldn't have to travel himself like buu would because the energy spreads itself. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/1/13841/246247-246098_rokaishin_says_buu_is_universal_threat_super_super.jpg.

Buuhan was actually the first one to be considered a Universe buster not through the use of spreading his ki in an instant but with his "Kiai Yell".

1. Buu crushing alternate dimensions. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/246203-buu_universe_7_super.jpg.

2. Buu causing space to warp. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/246206-buu_universe_bust_3_super.jpg.

3. The walls between dimensions would break down. http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m156/kinasin/296989-buu_universe_4_super.jpg.

Even though this is not in the manga material, its actually listed in the diazenshuu as a technique Super buu could do. This doesn't contradict the manga at all. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/31957/598704-385682-buu_universal.jpg.

Base Super buu can distort space and time with his kiai yell in the manga http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111115290/3359600-3039506381-22838.jpg. If base super buu could distort space and time inside the world of the hyperbolic time chamber theirs no doubt Buuhan who is much stronger than base super buu, could distort space and time inside the living world. This is really a cheap technique like the Dragonfist which is why i doubt anyone will ever be shown to use it again. I guess toriyama wanted to make a point in that anyone on Super buu's level or above easily has enough ki force to break dimensions distorting time and time, this is not something to amazed about considering how much ki someone like super buu and SSJ3 gotenks would have compared to other strong fighters.


#37 Edited by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegetto1990: I think vegetto's power level is not goku x vegeta but goku + vegeta x 4 or something like that. And can ssj god goku can destroy 1-2 galaxies?? And will there be a new dragonball series?? and is goku at his best transformation faster than light?? And i hope i am not annoying you with my constant questions.

#38 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not using power levels. The creator never tried to explain it and was only using it as tool for the enemies to underestimate. It is all in the impulse no thinking.

Most of us in the west have yet see the next super mode. We can make usual assumptions from the past forms. The latest movie already said to have one error of putting Gohan in super sayein instead of his unlock inner power form. They said to have fixed it when it gets dubbed.

#39 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegetto1990: Do u Have any proof that king kai's planet is denser than earth?? sure it has much more gravity but it is not mentioned that it is denser than earth.

#40 Edited by Mortein (2837 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman said:

@vegetto1990: Do u Have any proof that king kai's planet is denser than earth?? sure it has much more gravity but it is not mentioned that it is denser than earth.

I think vegetto's power level is not goku x vegeta but goku + vegeta x 4 or something like that. And can ssj god goku can destroy 1-2 galaxies?? And will there be a new dragonball series?? and is goku at his best transformation faster than light?? And i hope i am not annoying you with my constant questions.

more gravity and smaller volume means it has more density

g = m/r2

ρ = m / V

It was said than Vegetto is Vegeta x Goku in official DBZ handbook, but it makes no sense to me

There is no evidence suggesting that SSJG Goku can destroy galaxies. (as far as I know)

There could be a new series, or at least a new movies,

Goku probably is faster than light, although we don't know for sure yet.

I think, for the reasons listed here, that DBZ characters were able to reach light speed as early as namek saga.

#41 Edited by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@mortein: LOL if Vegetto was goku x Vegeta then vegetto would have super curbstomped superbuu effortlessly in his base form . And also vegetto would have stomped bills too . How much denser was king kai's planet compared to earth??

#42 Edited by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman: It was shown in the anime that vegetto was stronger than Buuhan. Even though they skipped this scene in the manga yet again, it doesn't contradict it. This is because old kai said in the manga that they would not need to go SSJ to fight buuhan. Im pretty sure Base vegetto was just a little stronger than buuhan, but to make sure buuhan was totally outclassed, he turned SSJ. Keep in mind how strong buuhan is. Both Super Buu and Ultimate gohan are somewhere in the Multi Billions, That's Multi Billions + Multi Billions + Piccolo + Trunks + Goten.

And no, Bills, SSJG and Whis have godly ki which surpasses Multiplicative ki. Toriyama already mentioned that bills and God goku were the strongest characters him and his staff came up with at the time. (And of course Whis who was suppose to be a mystery at the time and still is) I have goku MFTL since he kept up with Bills at 70% of his power. Bills later in the movie showed at this same amount of power or possibly less, that he was MFTL when flew around his planetary system within 3 seconds crashing into planets. King kai's planet is incredibly dense since its small with 10x earth's gravity. The more gravity something has, the more denser. For example white dwarf stars are the size of our planet earth but yet has the gravity of our sun. So trying to destroy a white dwarf star would take the same amount of energy it would take to destroy the sun.

I don't know the exact density of king kai's planet, but all i know is that it is leagues more denser than our moon. If goku can punch a hole through king kai's in an instant, that means if he was to punch our moon it would crumble easily.

#44 Edited by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegetto1990 said:

@theamazingbatman: It was shown in the anime that vegetto was stronger than Buuhan. Even though they skipped this scene in the manga yet again, it doesn't contradict it. This is because old kai said in the manga that they would not need to go SSJ to fight buuhan. Im pretty sure Base vegetto was just a little stronger than buuhan, but to make sure buuhan was totally outclassed, he turned SSJ. Keep in mind how strong buuhan is. Both Super Buu and Ultimate gohan are somewhere in the Multi Billions, That's Multi Billions + Multi Billions + Piccolo + Trunks + Goten.

And no, Bills, SSJG and Whis have godly ki which surpasses Multiplicative ki. Toriyama already mentioned that bills and God goku were the strongest characters him and his staff came up with at the time. (And of course Whis who was suppose to be a mystery at the time and still is) I have goku MFTL since he kept up with Bills at 70% of his power. Bills later in the movie showed at this same amount of power or possibly less, that he was MFTL when flew around his planetary system within 3 seconds crashing into planets. King kai's planet is incredibly dense since its small with 10x earth's gravity. The more gravity something has, the more denser. For example white dwarf stars are the size of our planet earth but yet has the gravity of our sun. So trying to destroy a white dwarf star would take the same amount of energy it would take to destroy the sun.

I don't know the exact density of king kai's planet, but all i know is that it is leagues more denser than our moon. If goku can punch a hole through king kai's in an instant, that means if he was to punch our moon it would crumble easily.

Well goku and vegeta are in multi billion level too.

so billion x billion = curbstomp for base vegeto.

Can you calculate the density of king kai's planet?

#45 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@mortein: How much is king kai's planet's density ?

#46 Edited by Mortein (2837 posts) - - Show Bio
#47 Edited by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio
#48 Posted by Mortein (2837 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@mortein said:

@theamazingbatman said:
@mortein said:

@theamazingbatman said:

@mortein: How much is king kai's planet's density ?

Approximately millions of tons per cubic meter, I'm sure there are some calculations on the internet. Try to google.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24300

You are saying that king kai's planet is 1 million times denser than earth???

probably something like that. I haven't done the calculations,so you'll have to search the internet for the precise numbers.

Well If it is million times denser than earth than destroying king kai's planet is a hell of a feat for goku.

#50 Edited by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman: Goku and vegeta are only in the Multi billions in their SSJ mode's. But in their base mode they are in the Multi Upper millions. As for king kai's planet it was calculated to be 2 million times denser than earth or 3.5 as dense as a white dwarf. Here's the math that has been calculated online.

Here's the actual calcs

g = m/r^2

m = r^2 x g

m = 0.0000156961230576^2 x 10

m = 0.0000000024636827904 earth masses

Earths mass = 5.97219 × 10^24 kilograms

5.97219 × 10^24 X 0.0000000024636827904 = 14,713,581,723,998,976

m = 14,713,581,723,998,976 kg

This considers King akis planet as 100m radius and 10X gravity.

The small number is the size of king kais planets radius in relation to Earths.

volume of a sphere is V = (4/3) × pi × r^3

V = (4/3) × pi × 100m^3 = 4188790.2047863905m^3

This is using King kais planet as 100m radius.

Knowing the mass and Volume we can get density.

P = M/V

P = 14713581723998976kg / 4188790.2047863905m^3

P = 3.512608892.9415128417291527 X 10^9 kg/m^3

Density of a white dwarf star: "The average density of matter in a white dwarf must therefore be, very roughly, 1,000,000 times greater than the average density of the Sun, or approximately 10^6 g/cm3." Which translates to 10^9 kg/m^3. So in other words it is over 3.5 times as dense as a white dwarf star.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_dwarf

If you don't believe this then I found soem other calcs.

It doesn't matter here the dimension of the planet, but the density, since we are talking about a PUNCH, not a Ki blast.

King Kai's planet is not more than 30 meters in diameter (pixels-scaling), but even if it is 40, 50 or 90 meters, the order of magnitude, physically talking, is still the same (i.e. 10).

Now, gravitational force of a planet is given by this formula:

F = (G*M*m)/r^2

G is the universal gravitational constant (6,67*10^-11 [m^3/(kg*s^2)];

M is the mass of the planet

m is the generic reference mass

r is the radius of the planet (or distance between the two masses' centers)

Since King Kai's gravitational force is 10 times the Earth gravitational force, we have Fk (gravitational force of King Kai's planet) 10 times bigger than Fe (Earth's gravity).

Fk/Fe = [(G*Mk*m)/rk^2]/[(G*Me*m)/re^2] = 10

G and m are in commons and go away, so we have:

(Mk/rk^2)/(Me/re^2) = 10

Mass is Volume (V)*Density (D), with Volume (of a generical planet) = (4/3)*π*r^3;

back to the formula:

((4/3)*π*rk^3*Dk)/rk^2 = Fk and ((4/3)*π*re^3*De)/re^2 = Fe, so:

Fk/Fe = (Dk*rk)/(De*re) = 10.

The only unknown term is Dk (density of King Kai's planet), while we know De and re of Earth and rk = 15 meters (assuming a diameter of King Kai's planet of 30 m, as previously said).

So, Dk = 1,17*10^10 kg/m^3, while density of Earth (De) is 5,5153*10^3 kg/m^3, so the density of King Kai's planet is around 2 millions of times higher than the desnity of Earth, and Goku punched a whole hole throughout this material.

The most dense material known is Osmium, which has a density of 22661 kg/m^3, and, because of that, it's also the material which is most resistant to compression (462 GPa).

King Kai's planet is still half a million times more dense than this, and thus even way more resistant to physical compression.

Even if King Kai's planet had the same gravitational force as Earth, the fact it has such a small diameter would still imply a huge density, and indeed, it would still have a density around 200000 times bigger than the density of Earth.

Dou you have some info about that planet destroyed by Gladiator?

Because it could be a planet 2 times bigger than Earth, but 100 times less dense, making this feat pale compared to Goku's striking punch.

Indeed, what really matters when talking about physical punches is the density, and AT, giving us a planet of a few meters of diameter and with a gravitational force 10 times bigger than the one on Earth, is indisputably giving us that previously said enormous level of density.

Imaging taking a cube of 1 meter of each side of the following materials:

- average Sun composition: it would weigh around 1,4 tons;

- average Earth composition: it would weigh around 5,5 tons;

- core of the Sun material: it would weigh 150 tons;

- King Kai's planet material: it would weigh around 10 millions tons;

- Neutron Star material: it would weigh around 280000 billions tons.

Punching the core of the Sun would obviously require inhuman physical strength, regardless of how much matter, in kg, you punch away; even worse would be just trying to physically scratch the surface of a Neutron Star.

Well, a not even bloodlusted Ssj3 Goku actually vaporizes, with one punch, a whole quantity of a material which, according to canon info about King Kai's planet, has thousands of times the density of the core of the Sun.

This is insane, literally insane.

Punching the Earth material for Goku would thus be a joke: for him, it would be like punching air, and the Earth would collapse on itself.

"Part of martial arts it to focus your inner energy, and that is exactly what has been stated over and over from time and time again in the series, and not just by Goku. This "focus of inner energy" is what allows them to pull planet shattering punches against opponents and not destroy the planet via excessive energy (i.e. shock-waves). Their energy is so focused that they are able to subconsciously control it without needed effort on a conscious level"

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