How strong are gokus blasts and how much is his durability?

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#51 Edited by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegetto1990 said:

@theamazingbatman: Goku and vegeta are only in the Multi billions in their SSJ mode's. But in their base mode they are in the Multi Upper millions. As for king kai's planet it was calculated to be 2 million times denser than earth or 3.5 as dense as a white dwarf. Here's the math that has been calculated online.

Here's the actual calcs

g = m/r^2

m = r^2 x g

m = 0.0000156961230576^2 x 10

m = 0.0000000024636827904 earth masses

Earths mass = 5.97219 × 10^24 kilograms

5.97219 × 10^24 X 0.0000000024636827904 = 14,713,581,723,998,976

m = 14,713,581,723,998,976 kg

This considers King akis planet as 100m radius and 10X gravity.

The small number is the size of king kais planets radius in relation to Earths.

volume of a sphere is V = (4/3) × pi × r^3

V = (4/3) × pi × 100m^3 = 4188790.2047863905m^3

This is using King kais planet as 100m radius.

Knowing the mass and Volume we can get density.

P = M/V

P = 14713581723998976kg / 4188790.2047863905m^3

P = 3.512608892.9415128417291527 X 10^9 kg/m^3

Density of a white dwarf star: "The average density of matter in a white dwarf must therefore be, very roughly, 1,000,000 times greater than the average density of the Sun, or approximately 10^6 g/cm3." Which translates to 10^9 kg/m^3. So in other words it is over 3.5 times as dense as a white dwarf star.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_dwarf

If you don't believe this then I found soem other calcs.

It doesn't matter here the dimension of the planet, but the density, since we are talking about a PUNCH, not a Ki blast.

King Kai's planet is not more than 30 meters in diameter (pixels-scaling), but even if it is 40, 50 or 90 meters, the order of magnitude, physically talking, is still the same (i.e. 10).

Now, gravitational force of a planet is given by this formula:

F = (G*M*m)/r^2

G is the universal gravitational constant (6,67*10^-11 [m^3/(kg*s^2)];

M is the mass of the planet

m is the generic reference mass

r is the radius of the planet (or distance between the two masses' centers)

Since King Kai's gravitational force is 10 times the Earth gravitational force, we have Fk (gravitational force of King Kai's planet) 10 times bigger than Fe (Earth's gravity).

Fk/Fe = [(G*Mk*m)/rk^2]/[(G*Me*m)/re^2] = 10

G and m are in commons and go away, so we have:

(Mk/rk^2)/(Me/re^2) = 10

Mass is Volume (V)*Density (D), with Volume (of a generical planet) = (4/3)*π*r^3;

back to the formula:

((4/3)*π*rk^3*Dk)/rk^2 = Fk and ((4/3)*π*re^3*De)/re^2 = Fe, so:

Fk/Fe = (Dk*rk)/(De*re) = 10.

The only unknown term is Dk (density of King Kai's planet), while we know De and re of Earth and rk = 15 meters (assuming a diameter of King Kai's planet of 30 m, as previously said).

So, Dk = 1,17*10^10 kg/m^3, while density of Earth (De) is 5,5153*10^3 kg/m^3, so the density of King Kai's planet is around 2 millions of times higher than the desnity of Earth, and Goku punched a whole hole throughout this material.

The most dense material known is Osmium, which has a density of 22661 kg/m^3, and, because of that, it's also the material which is most resistant to compression (462 GPa).

King Kai's planet is still half a million times more dense than this, and thus even way more resistant to physical compression.

Even if King Kai's planet had the same gravitational force as Earth, the fact it has such a small diameter would still imply a huge density, and indeed, it would still have a density around 200000 times bigger than the density of Earth.

Dou you have some info about that planet destroyed by Gladiator?

Because it could be a planet 2 times bigger than Earth, but 100 times less dense, making this feat pale compared to Goku's striking punch.

Indeed, what really matters when talking about physical punches is the density, and AT, giving us a planet of a few meters of diameter and with a gravitational force 10 times bigger than the one on Earth, is indisputably giving us that previously said enormous level of density.

Imaging taking a cube of 1 meter of each side of the following materials:

- average Sun composition: it would weigh around 1,4 tons;

- average Earth composition: it would weigh around 5,5 tons;

- core of the Sun material: it would weigh 150 tons;

- King Kai's planet material: it would weigh around 10 millions tons;

- Neutron Star material: it would weigh around 280000 billions tons.

Punching the core of the Sun would obviously require inhuman physical strength, regardless of how much matter, in kg, you punch away; even worse would be just trying to physically scratch the surface of a Neutron Star.

Well, a not even bloodlusted Ssj3 Goku actually vaporizes, with one punch, a whole quantity of a material which, according to canon info about King Kai's planet, has thousands of times the density of the core of the Sun.

This is insane, literally insane.

Punching the Earth material for Goku would thus be a joke: for him, it would be like punching air, and the Earth would collapse on itself.

"Part of martial arts it to focus your inner energy, and that is exactly what has been stated over and over from time and time again in the series, and not just by Goku. This "focus of inner energy" is what allows them to pull planet shattering punches against opponents and not destroy the planet via excessive energy (i.e. shock-waves). Their energy is so focused that they are able to subconsciously control it without needed effort on a conscious level"

Nice one !

and by the the way even if super buuhan was 100 billion and goku and vegeta had a power level of 500 million then it it would still be a curbstomp for base vegitto .

And by the way it is stated that king kai's planet was once 100 times as big as it is now . So at that time was his planet's gravity greater than it is now?? If the gravity was at that time was still 10 time earths then it would be less denser than you say. It would be like 20000 at the max

#52 Edited by sergioRbenitez (7 posts) - - Show Bio

At only SS2 Goku fired a blast at Cell that could blow up the earth. SS3's power shook the whole earth & could be felt from across the universe and Supreme Kai's realm (http://www.screwattack.com/news/response-debunking-gokus-feats-and-misconceptions), he punched through King Kai's planet which has 10x gravity/greater density than Earth despite being smaller. Super Saiyan God Goku is a solar system buster, as he matches Bills God of Destruction, and is asked if he'd like to be the next God of Destruction implying he has equal destructive ability. Possible galaxy buster according to Piccolo, but I think that's a hyperbole.

He's survived multi-planet energy busting attacks and moon-busting punches from Bills.

#53 Posted by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@sergiorbenitez: Goku was never a SSJ2 when he fought cell, you talking about MSSJ (Max SSJ).

Least to greatest. Regular SSJ < Ascended SSJ < Ultra SSJ < MSSJ < SSJ2 < SSJ3 < SSJG

Nobody in Z is a solar system "buster" but rather solar system/Galaxy/Universe wipers by "traveling" from planet to planet and star to star. Ki blasts don't have a range wide enough to cover an entire solar system, galaxy or universe. Whis was implying that bills could easily and very quickly destroy a solar system, that's why in a sense he said "Instant". This just came to my attention but according to an interview with toriyama, when bills finds it bothersome to do his job of destruction he lets someone else act as an agent of destruction. When looking at the movie, this someone else was frieza. When bills asked whis whether frieza destroyed namek he told him yes, then after that he said he was going to destroy the planet as well but it was too far so he didn't want to be bothered with doing it. This implies that frieza acted as the god of destruction for a long period of time and this can be the reason why frieza was so cocky and called himself "Lord of the universe". Even so, each of these characters since they all have a different level of strength, can destroy only a certain amount of life throughout the universe before they get fatigued, then they would need to wait and recover their energy.

Frieza (At max) - Multi Large planet -Small star level (He showed feats such as surviving an entire planetary systems (Large spirit bomb) worth of life energy at 50% power, prior to these he took a 20x kamehameha wave. After getting hit with a planetary systems worth of energy and was weakened from taking blows from goku, he said namek's explosion would only make him lose "some" energy implying he can take several planetary explosions equivalent to namek before he dies.

Cell ( At max) - Solar system level + (He is leagues and leagues ahead of frieza's destructive power durability and he gathered enough ki equivalent to destroying a solar system. The solar kamehameha was so powerful that just by gathering this energy, nearby cities away from the cell games site were shaking and people were calling it an earthquake. You can even see buildings breaking apart in the manga clips in the backround. This was obviously no regular Super kamehameha. lol

Kid buu (At max) - Multi solar system level + (He has destroyed Several Hundred planets throughout the universe according to the supreme kai and new chozenshuu. If we wasn't sealed away, he would have destroyed more.This means kid buu came across planets and Gas giants leagues bigger and denser than the planets in our planetary system. If we were to add all of that destruction up it would easily surpass a few solar masses. 1 solar mass is equivalent to our sun. Kid buu also has unlimited ki at his disposal so he would never fatigued in the truest since. Keep in mind all the Super Buu's easily surpasses Kid buu.

Super Vegetto (At max) - Multi Large Star system level + ( This is because vegetto is Goku X Vegeta. Everything is multiplied, ki potential, strength potential, speed potential etc. This is literally insane ki power we talking.

Bills (At max) - Small galaxy level (Something equivalent to half our galaxy) Bills is the god of destruction so he can casually destroy stars and planets with ease. He easily gathered a destructive ball in seconds that was multiple times stronger than the super spirit bomb thrown at Kid buu which took several minutes. This is because Kid buu has the strength to push back the super spirit bomb which is still totally crazy but yet God goku who is >>>>>>Kid buu had problems holding back bills destructive ball, that says alot about how much energy can be condensed and concentrated into these energy ball attacks. And even the kai's get scared because bills usually destroys much more than is needed and they wonder how much life in the universe would be sacrificed when he is awake. Also he is easily above even super vegetto so i have no doubt bills destructive scale is this large before he fatigues.

@theamazingbatman And the answer is yes it would have a density around 200,000x earth if the planet was at its original size, which is still insane.

#54 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

At only SS2 Goku fired a blast at Cell that could blow up the earth. SS3's power shook the whole earth & could be felt from across the universe and Supreme Kai's realm (http://www.screwattack.com/news/response-debunking-gokus-feats-and-misconceptions), he punched through King Kai's planet which has 10x gravity/greater density than Earth despite being smaller. Super Saiyan God Goku is a solar system buster, as he matches Bills God of Destruction, and is asked if he'd like to be the next God of Destruction implying he has equal destructive ability. Possible galaxy buster according to Piccolo, but I think that's a hyperbole.

He's survived multi-planet energy busting attacks and moon-busting punches from Bills.

Frieza in his his first form destroyed planet vegeta with just one finger effortlessly , Planet vegeta had ten times the gravity of earth which means that either it is ten times denser than earth or ten times bigger than earth (or both) . Perhaps frieza was using just one percent of his power of his first form to destroy planet vegeta . Cooler (frieza's brother) was was strong enough to destroy the sun (the sun is millions of times bigger than earth) . ssj 2 goku >>>>>>>>> Cooler and you are saying that ssj 2 can only blow up earth.

#55 Edited by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegetto1990 said:

@sergiorbenitez: Goku was never a SSJ2 when he fought cell, you talking about MSSJ (Max SSJ).

Least to greatest. Regular SSJ < Ascended SSJ < Ultra SSJ < MSSJ < SSJ2 < SSJ3 < SSJG

Nobody in Z is a solar system "buster" but rather solar system/Galaxy/Universe wipers by "traveling" from planet to planet and star to star. Ki blasts don't have a range wide enough to cover an entire solar system, galaxy or universe. Whis was implying that bills could easily and very quickly destroy a solar system, that's why in a sense he said "Instant". This just came to my attention but according to an interview with toriyama, when bills finds it bothersome to do his job of destruction he lets someone else act as an agent of destruction. When looking at the movie, this someone else was frieza. When bills asked whis whether frieza destroyed namek he told him yes, then after that he said he was going to destroy the planet as well but it was too far so he didn't want to be bothered with doing it. This implies that frieza acted as the god of destruction for a long period of time and this can be the reason why frieza was so cocky and called himself "Lord of the universe". Even so, each of these characters since they all have a different level of strength, can destroy only a certain amount of life throughout the universe before they get fatigued, then they would need to wait and recover their energy.

Frieza (At max) - Multi Large planet -Small star level (He showed feats such as surviving an entire planetary systems (Large spirit bomb) worth of life energy at 50% power, prior to these he took a 20x kamehameha wave. After getting hit with a planetary systems worth of energy and was weakened from taking blows from goku, he said namek's explosion would only make him lose "some" energy implying he can take several planetary explosions equivalent to namek before he dies.

Cell ( At max) - Solar system level + (He is leagues and leagues ahead of frieza's destructive power durability and he gathered enough ki equivalent to destroying a solar system. The solar kamehameha was so powerful that just by gathering this energy, nearby cities away from the cell games site were shaking and people were calling it an earthquake. You can even see buildings breaking apart in the manga clips in the backround. This was obviously no regular Super kamehameha. lol

Kid buu (At max) - Multi solar system level + (He has destroyed Several Hundred planets throughout the universe according to the supreme kai and new chozenshuu. If we wasn't sealed away, he would have destroyed more.This means kid buu came across planets and Gas giants leagues bigger and denser than the planets in our planetary system. If we were to add all of that destruction up it would easily surpass a few solar masses. 1 solar mass is equivalent to our sun. Kid buu also has unlimited ki at his disposal so he would never fatigued in the truest since. Keep in mind all the Super Buu's easily surpasses Kid buu.

Super Vegetto (At max) - Multi Large Star system level + ( This is because vegetto is Goku X Vegeta. Everything is multiplied, ki potential, strength potential, speed potential etc. This is literally insane ki power we talking.

Bills (At max) - Small galaxy level (Something equivalent to half our galaxy) Bills is the god of destruction so he can casually destroy stars and planets with ease. He easily gathered a destructive ball in seconds that was multiple times stronger than the super spirit bomb thrown at Kid buu which took several minutes. This is because Kid buu has the strength to push back the super spirit bomb which is still totally crazy but yet God goku who is >>>>>>Kid buu had problems holding back bills destructive ball, that says alot about how much energy can be condensed and concentrated into these energy ball attacks. And even the kai's get scared because bills usually destroys much more than is needed and they wonder how much life in the universe would be sacrificed when he is awake. Also he is easily above even super vegetto so i have no doubt bills destructive scale is this large before he fatigues.

@theamazingbatman And the answer is yes it would have a density around 200,000x earth if the planet was at its original size, which is still insane.

What is the difference between Buster and wiper??

I have a question for you, if king kai's planet is 20000x earth's density then does it mean that goku could punch through 20000 earths??

And didn't kaioshin said that if super buu kept on yelling the whole universe will be destroyed?? How come you put him in multi solar system + level??

and wasn't super buu weaker than ssj 3 goku?? Gotenks could have defeated super buu and ssj 3 goku is stronger than that. In the movie wrath of the dragon , ssj3 goku easily defeated hideguaem ( the big monster , I don't remember his name correctly) . Ssj 3 gotenks and mystic gohan were having difficulty fighting the monster . ssj 3 goku > super buu

#56 Posted by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman: Someone that can bust something can do it instantly, when i say wiper, that means they would be able to destroy something but "overtime" it wouldn't be on the spot. Depending on how fast the person is, it can take seconds, minutes, hours or days. And no it wouldn't exactly be 200,000 earths since that would be abusing powerscaling but he would still be able to one shot a planet like earth and a little bigger. Kaioshin said super buu (Gohan absorbed) can destroy a universe via kiai shout, i was talking about Ki destructive capability and i was also referring to Kid buu not Buuhan. Super buu was not weaker than SSJ3 goku. Goku was scared to fight super buu even with vegeta's help and admitted super buu was far too strong. Goku then remarked that the potara would have been a good idea if they didn't break it, which implies that goku needed to fuse with someone to stand a chance against him. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/2/23751/596142-46_507_46__420412.jpg.

Yet when goku fights Kid buu, he was sure that he had a chance to beat him while at SSJ3 no fusion needed. And even though goku that his SSJ3 takes up a lot of stamina in his living body , he still was going toe to toe with kid buu. Kid buu only had the advantage because of that and since he has unlimited stamina and regeneration, not because he was physically stronger than goku. SSJ3 gotenks = Super buu. So both super buu and SSJ3 gotenks >> SSJ3 goku. The movies are heavily inconsistent so i wouldn't take those feats of goku too seriously to the point of saying he was stronger than gotenks and especially Mystic gohan, that's absurd and it contradicts the manga. The Dragonfist is a plot device technique.

#57 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman: Someone that can bust something can do it instantly, when i say wiper, that means they would be able to destroy something but "overtime" it wouldn't be on the spot. Depending on how fast the person is, it can take seconds, minutes, hours or days. And no it wouldn't exactly be 200,000 earths since that would be abusing powerscaling but he would still be able to one shot a planet like earth and a little bigger. Kaioshin said super buu (Gohan absorbed) can destroy a universe via kiai shout, i was talking about Ki destructive capability and i was also referring to Kid buu not Buuhan. Super buu was not weaker than SSJ3 goku. Goku was scared to fight super buu even with vegeta's help and admitted super buu was far too strong. Goku then remarked that the potara would have been a good idea if they didn't break it, which implies that goku needed to fuse with someone to stand a chance against him. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/2/23751/596142-46_507_46__420412.jpg.

Yet when goku fights Kid buu, he was sure that he had a chance to beat him while at SSJ3 no fusion needed. And even though goku that his SSJ3 takes up a lot of stamina in his living body , he still was going toe to toe with kid buu. Kid buu only had the advantage because of that and since he has unlimited stamina and regeneration, not because he was physically stronger than goku. SSJ3 gotenks = Super buu. So both super buu and SSJ3 gotenks >> SSJ3 goku. The movies are heavily inconsistent so i wouldn't take those feats of goku too seriously to the point of saying he was stronger than gotenks and especially Mystic gohan, that's absurd and it contradicts the manga. The Dragonfist is a plot device technique.

Well ssj 3 goku was stronger than fat buu and super buu = fat buu since they are both Evil buu + good buu.

Why can't ssj3 vegeto beat bills?

Is there going to be a new dbz BoG movie coming?

#58 Posted by sergioRbenitez (7 posts) - - Show Bio

@sergiorbenitez: Goku was never a SSJ2 when he fought cell, you talking about MSSJ (Max SSJ).

Nobody in Z is a solar system "buster" but rather solar system/Galaxy/Universe wipers by "traveling" from planet to planet and star to star. Ki blasts don't have a range wide enough to cover an entire solar system, galaxy or universe. Whis was implying that bills could easily and very quickly destroy a solar system, that's why in a sense he said "Instant". This just came to my attention but according to an interview with toriyama, when bills finds it bothersome to do his job of destruction he lets someone else act as an agent of destruction. When looking at the movie, this someone else was frieza. When bills asked whis whether frieza destroyed namek he told him yes, then after that he said he was going to destroy the planet as well but it was too far so he didn't want to be bothered with doing it. This implies that frieza acted as the god of destruction for a long period of time and this can be the reason why frieza was so cocky and called himself "Lord of the universe". Even so, each of these characters since they all have a different level of strength, can destroy only a certain amount of life throughout the universe before they get fatigued, then they would need to wait and recover their energy.

My bad, I was mistaken about the SSJ2, you're right.

With all do respect, I disagree with some of the stuff you said. I agree, that before Bills, all characters mentioned to have power to destroy solar systems/galaxies/universes are wipers. Buu is confirmed that he destroyed many in the course of a few years. However, Super Boo is said to be able to destroy the universe via vice shout in a matter of seconds, ripping holes in dimensions. So I see no reason why it wouldn't be taken literally when Whis says in a straight up tone that Bills could destroy a Solar System in an Instant. Perhaps, a full body energy blast that goes in all directions. Maybe done close by a star, as Supreme Kai asks how many stars will be destroyed this time. Who knows? It's all speculation, who's to say the Gods (Bills/Goku/Whis) don't have the range. SS3's power shook the earth & was felt across the galaxy/universe to Supreme Kai's realm. Maybe SSG & Bills can emit enough power to do more than just shake worlds within whole solar systems, but destroy them that way. Very far fetched I know, i'm just throwing stuff out there. We don't know how they would do it, but I believe Whis when he says in an instant (especially considering Super Boo). Also, yes he let's someone act as an agent of destruction, which Frieza very may well have been. However, Frieza's never referred to as a God of Destruction, he'd be an agent. Frieza's also just a cocky being, and said those things before BoG was even written. Whis asks Goku if he'd like to be the next GOD of Destruction AFTER Bills. At which Bills is even shown taking offense that Whis would propose that (but what's he gonna do? Whis is stronger than him), until Goku declines the offer. I'm sure they weren't talking about being just an agent.

#59 Posted by sergioRbenitez (7 posts) - - Show Bio

@sergiorbenitez said:

At only SS2 Goku fired a blast at Cell that could blow up the earth. SS3's power shook the whole earth & could be felt from across the universe and Supreme Kai's realm (http://www.screwattack.com/news/response-debunking-gokus-feats-and-misconceptions), he punched through King Kai's planet which has 10x gravity/greater density than Earth despite being smaller. Super Saiyan God Goku is a solar system buster, as he matches Bills God of Destruction, and is asked if he'd like to be the next God of Destruction implying he has equal destructive ability. Possible galaxy buster according to Piccolo, but I think that's a hyperbole.

He's survived multi-planet energy busting attacks and moon-busting punches from Bills.

Frieza in his his first form destroyed planet vegeta with just one finger effortlessly , Planet vegeta had ten times the gravity of earth which means that either it is ten times denser than earth or ten times bigger than earth (or both) . Perhaps frieza was using just one percent of his power of his first form to destroy planet vegeta . Cooler (frieza's brother) was was strong enough to destroy the sun (the sun is millions of times bigger than earth) . ssj 2 goku >>>>>>>>> Cooler and you are saying that ssj 2 can only blow up earth.


Lol no, i was just giving an example of a feat he actually was confirmed to do at that moment in the series. Everyone was afraid he was going to aim it at the earth. I'm sure he can do more, that was just the first thing that came to mind. Also, my bad, that was just max SS1.

#60 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman said:

@sergiorbenitez said:

At only SS2 Goku fired a blast at Cell that could blow up the earth. SS3's power shook the whole earth & could be felt from across the universe and Supreme Kai's realm (http://www.screwattack.com/news/response-debunking-gokus-feats-and-misconceptions), he punched through King Kai's planet which has 10x gravity/greater density than Earth despite being smaller. Super Saiyan God Goku is a solar system buster, as he matches Bills God of Destruction, and is asked if he'd like to be the next God of Destruction implying he has equal destructive ability. Possible galaxy buster according to Piccolo, but I think that's a hyperbole.

He's survived multi-planet energy busting attacks and moon-busting punches from Bills.

Frieza in his his first form destroyed planet vegeta with just one finger effortlessly , Planet vegeta had ten times the gravity of earth which means that either it is ten times denser than earth or ten times bigger than earth (or both) . Perhaps frieza was using just one percent of his power of his first form to destroy planet vegeta . Cooler (frieza's brother) was was strong enough to destroy the sun (the sun is millions of times bigger than earth) . ssj 2 goku >>>>>>>>> Cooler and you are saying that ssj 2 can only blow up earth.

Lol no, i was just giving an example of a feat he actually was confirmed to do at that moment in the series. Everyone was afraid he was going to aim it at the earth. I'm sure he can do more, that was just the first thing that came to mind. Also, my bad, that was just max SS1.

hahahaha I thought you were saying that ssj2 at his max could only destroy earth . And by the way welcome to Comicvine , if you are new

#61 Edited by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@sergiorbenitez: I understand what you're saying but Vice shout is completely different than a Ki blast attack. So far no feats prove that bills or goku has a ki blast attack that can cover and destroy something as massive as a solar system unless they blast the sun in the process. But when whis said "instant" it was something simular to how fast bills destroyed those planets in the solar system around his temple. It took only 3 seconds for him to do it and he did it by speedblitzing. Notice this pic. For him to cover such an area in that amount of time proves he's MFTL. I also saw a translation on the kanzenshuu website where whis's words were "In no time at all". The BOG's we saw was still fan subbed so not everything that was said was correctly said the original way but this is my opinion im not trying to argue.

#62 Edited by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegetto1990: Do you know why vegetto's name is vegetto?? i can not understand it ! gogeta's and gotenks name consisted of both fusees' name , then how can vegetto's name has no part of goku's name??

#63 Edited by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio
#64 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegetto1990: why did goku leave with shenron at the end of dbgt?

#65 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@mortein: why did goku leave with shenron at the end of dbgt??

#66 Posted by Mortein (2837 posts) - - Show Bio

@mortein: why did goku leave with shenron at the end of dbgt??

I don't know, I watched DBGT only once like 10 years ago

#67 Edited by Pope052 (3108 posts) - - Show Bio

"How powerful are Goku's Ki Blasts?"

At the minimum, planetary level in his Base Form. When he advances to the next levels of Super Saiyan his power multiplies him to a level beyond that.

The power given from Super Saiyan doesn't act as a "Goku can bust one planet in Base Form, so in Super Saiyan he can bust fifty" type of multiplier meaning that they don't stay in a strict structure level of power.

The point of the Super Saiyan transformations is to multiply the Ki within Goku's Base Form externally by the given amount, and then he ascends to a whole new world of power.

#68 Posted by Vegetto1990 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: You mean "planet level" in base form. "Planetary level" is someone who can only destroy the entire surface of a planet but not the whole of it. Current base form goku is a different story since he absorbed the god powers. I do agree however that structure of power is not to be aligned with the exact amount of his multiplier SSJ forms. Base form frieza with the potential of ki being at 530,000 can easily bust planets with no problem, he destroyed planet vegeta using very little ki meaning that he can Multi planet bust at that level. Goku's last official base PL was 3,000,000. That means goku at this time can generate much more ki than base frieza. Later on in the buu saga we see this is true. Yakon had a kili of 800 but yet base goku was more than enough for him, he only went SSJ to show yakon he can generate light. So.... If one only needs 200-300 kili to destroy 1 or 2 planets that means Yakon is on the level of multi planet busting power at 800. Base goku > Yakon.

Now frieza's last official battle power was 120,000,000, this means he is around 226x stronger than what he was in his base form. This is going from Base frieza all the way up to final form frieza at each percentage of his power. For example: Final form frieza 20%, 50%, 70% etc. Frieza with that amount of potential of ki should be around dwarf star level, stars that have anywhere between 2-9% the mass of our sun at best. This is without powerscaling but using logic based on what we know of frieza's power and his feats. If i was to give a chart of destructive capabilities with each SSJ form of goku from the buu saga, it would go like this:

Base form Goku (Buu saga) - Multi Large planet level *Based on the feats and info from the frieza saga and yakon fight.

MSSJ Goku - Large star level (Arcturus) * Goku's potential base ki is multiplied 50x.

SSJ2 goku - Solar system level + * Super perfect cell was able to generate enough ki "equivalent" to destroying the solar system (Not busting) SSJ2 goku is said to be above SSJ2 teen gohan, so goku is easily around this level and then some.

SSJ3 Goku - Multi solar system level + * Goku's SSJ2 ki potential is multiplied 4x. He has so much ki in this form that he gets fatigued very fast. Of course he has gotten more use to the form over the yrs after the buu saga. Current base goku (BOG's) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>SSJ3 goku (buu saga) He held his own against bills in the cave and was holding back bills destructive ball full of 70% of his power. Since its heavily hinted that these guys surpass Super vegetto, God goku and bills are no doubt has the ki power to destroy several tens of star systems +. Base vegetto is already Goku x Vegeta + rival boost. Super vegetto is 50x goku x vegeta + rival boost, that's in the Multi star system level range already. Whis is basically bills + another half of bills. Toriyama said bills was a 10 and whis a 15.

#69 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

"How powerful are Goku's Ki Blasts?"

At the minimum, planetary level in his Base Form. When he advances to the next levels of Super Saiyan his power multiplies him to a level beyond that.

The power given from Super Saiyan doesn't act as a "Goku can bust one planet in Base Form, so in Super Saiyan he can bust fifty" type of multiplier meaning that they don't stay in a strict structure level of power.

The point of the Super Saiyan transformations is to multiply the Ki within Goku's Base Form externally by the given amount, and then he ascends to a whole new world of power.

what can he do at his best??

#70 Posted by Pope052 (3108 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman:

Well, in Super Saiyan 3 he should be able to bust the Solar-System and this isn't going by power-scaling either (as for an explanation if you'd like). If we're including GT/SSJ4, he'd be at least a galaxy-buster. I won't include SSJG, as technically that isn't Goku himself.

#71 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24214 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Goku full output at SSJ3 would be multi-Solar System+.

Durabilitty on the other hand, is kinda tricky, but I would place it around planet level.

#72 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Goku full output at SSJ3 would be multi-Solar System+.

Durabilitty on the other hand, is kinda tricky, but I would place it around planet level.

nah , frieza at an extremely weakened stated survived being in the middle of an exploding planet. Goku is leagues above frieza.

#73 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@theamazingbatman:

Well, in Super Saiyan 3 he should be able to bust the Solar-System and this isn't going by power-scaling either (as for an explanation if you'd like). If we're including GT/SSJ4, he'd be at least a galaxy-buster. I won't include SSJG, as technically that isn't Goku himself.

wasn't goku as a fp ssj a solar system buster???

#74 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24214 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman:

I was reffering to a condensed attack.

Freiza didn't take anywhere near the full blunt of Namek exploding, that feat, at best -- was continent level.

#75 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman:

I was reffering to a condensed attack.

Freiza didn't take anywhere near the full blunt of Namek exploding, that feat, at best -- was continent level.

Frieza took the spirit bomb, kaio ken times 20 kame hame ha , these attacks were clearly above planet level attacks.

#76 Edited by Pope052 (3108 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman:

It's debatable, but a maximally powered Super Saiyan Goku could effortlessly wipe out the nine planets in the solar-system (if we're counting Pluto) along with the asteroid belts and probably a considerable portion of the sun. If we were to put his output in order by each transformation, we'd get something along the lines of the following:

  • Full Power Base Form - Planet Level+
  • Kaioken X20 - Multi Planet Level+
  • Basic SSJ - Multi-Large Planet Level+
  • Full Power SSJ - Nigh Star-System Level
  • SSJ2 - Star-System Level
  • SSJ3 - Multi Star-System Level+

#77 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@theamazingbatman:

It's debatable, but a maximally powered Super Saiyan Goku could effortlessly wipe out the nine planets in the solar-system (if we're counting Pluto) along with the asteroid belts and probably a considerable portion of the sun. If we were to put his output in order by each transformation, we'd get something along the lines of the following:

  • Full Power Base Form - Planet Level+
  • Kaioken X20 - Multi Planet Level+
  • Basic SSJ - Multi-Large Planet Level+
  • Full Power SSJ - Nigh Star-System Level
  • SSJ2 - Star-System Level
  • SSJ3 - Multi Star-System Level+

What about ssj god in Z and ssj 4 in gt ??

#78 Edited by Pope052 (3108 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman:

I'd put SSJG at around galactic-level, and SSJ4 on at least that amount.

#79 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@theamazingbatman:

I'd put SSJG at around galactic-level, and SSJ4 on at least that amount.

Have an idea on how strong is ssj god compared to ssj 3??

#80 Edited by Pope052 (3108 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman:

I do, and i'd consider it at about X180 SSJ3 at it's absolute best. It may seem ridiculous at first but the scaling that I have done could be considered reasonable and i'll explain how I got the figure. Firstly, we're aware that 1% Bills > Full Power SSJ3 Goku and we'll assume that Goku only matched up to about half (0.5) of Bill's one percent.

Considering how an 80% SSJG Goku managed to force Bills to use 70% of his full power, it's now easy to do the calculating: 70/0.5 = 140. If Goku used 90%, Bills would most likely have to use 80% (80/0.5), and a 100% SSJG Goku would probably force Bills up to 90% (90/0.5). Therefore, SSJG's maximal multiplication figure should logically be roughly around X180 SSJ3 (approximately X72,000 Base).

#81 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@theamazingbatman:

I do, and i'd consider it at about X180 SSJ3 at it's absolute best. It may seem ridiculous at first but the scaling that I have done could be considered reasonable and i'll explain how I got the figure. Firstly, we're aware that 1% Bills > Full Power SSJ3 Goku and we'll assume that Goku only matched up to about half (0.5) of Bill's one percent.

Considering how an 80% SSJG Goku managed to force Bills to use 70% of his full power, it's now easy to do the calculating: 70/0.5 = 140. If Goku used 90%, Bills would most likely have to use 80% (80/0.5), and a 100% SSJG Goku would probably force Bills up to 90% (90/0.5). Therefore, SSJG's maximal multiplication figure should logically be roughly around X180 SSJ3 (approximately X72,000 Base).

Alright but how do you know that bills was using 1 % of his power?? He never said it. He could have been using 2% of his power or 4% or 7% or even 10% against ssj 3 goku.

#82 Posted by Pope052 (3108 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman:

It's assumed he was using 1% by most, although it is unconfirmed it's considered that he was using only that amount seeming how easy it was to stomp SSJ3 Goku. Although you're probably correct in it being just an assumption, I doubt Bills would have needed 10% anyway.

#83 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@theamazingbatman:

It's assumed he was using 1% by most, although it is unconfirmed it's considered that he was using only that amount seeming how easy it was to stomp SSJ3 Goku. Although you're probably correct in it being just an assumption, I doubt Bills would have needed 10% anyway.

How strong is ssj4 goku in Gt at his best?

#84 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052:

is goku as fast as light in his base form in Z?

#85 Posted by Pope052 (3108 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman:

It depends what terms you're referring to when you say "how strong is SSJ4 GT Goku", and Goku is faster light in his Base Form during the Namek Saga.

#86 Edited by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@theamazingbatman:

It depends what terms you're referring to when you say "how strong is SSJ4 GT Goku", and Goku is faster light in his Base Form during the Namek Saga.

I meant how much destructive ssj 4 goku was in GT at his maximum .

have any feats to show that goku was FTL in his base at namek??

if goku is FTL in his base than as a ssj4 in GT he was 1600000 times the speed of light?????????????

#87 Edited by Pope052 (3108 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman:

At his maximum, Multi-Galaxy+ would be equitable enough to label him at considering he was stated by to have enough power to light up (ignite) an entire galaxy in his Base Form whilst busting through a dimension using only a harnessed portion of his power. As for the feats and explanation of Namek Saga Goku's speed, i'd be happy to provide:

Firstly, Goku's reaction speed is clarified as light-speed by the feat of evading Tien's Solar Flare (solar flares are light and therefore travel at light-speed). Although there are attempts to suggest that this feat is inadequate, all of the claims lack any criteria of evidence as support.

In the battle with Vegeta, Goku himself admitted that Vegeta's speed was far beyond his own and Vegeta had speed-blitzed Goku in the fight (to be able to blitz, speed will need to exceed reaction speed). Vegeta is clearly faster than light in the Saiyan Saga, and ascending to the Namek Saga he was barely able to perceive Goku's movements and couldn't keep up with Goku at all which would label Goku also faster than light. I do have the scans if you'd like, so ask if you'd want to see them.

Although feats would contradict the claim of SSJ4 Goku being 1.6 Million X FTL, using the ability increases granted from Super Saiyan and strength amps throughout the series, that's how fast he should be. Most wouldn't agree with this, but there's utterly no denial that Super Saiyan 4 Goku is at least MFTL+ in combat speed.

#88 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@theamazingbatman:

At his maximum, Multi-Galaxy+ would be equitable enough to label him at considering he was stated by to have enough power to light up (ignite) an entire galaxy in his Base Form whilst busting through a dimension using only a harnessed portion of his power. As for the feats and explanation of Namek Saga Goku's speed, i'd be happy to provide:

Firstly, Goku's reaction speed is clarified as light-speed by the feat of evading Tien's Solar Flare (solar flares are light and therefore travel at light-speed). Although there are attempts to suggest that this feat is inadequate, all of the claims lack any criteria of evidence as support.

In the battle with Vegeta, Goku himself admitted that Vegeta's speed was far beyond his own and Vegeta had speed-blitzed Goku in the fight (to be able to blitz, speed will need to exceed reaction speed). Vegeta is clearly faster than light in the Saiyan Saga, and ascending to the Namek Saga he was barely able to perceive Goku's movements and couldn't keep up with Goku at all which would label Goku also faster than light. I do have the scans if you'd like, so ask if you'd want to see them.

Although feats would contradict the claim of SSJ4 Goku being 1.6 Million X FTL, using the ability increases granted from Super Saiyan and strength amps throughout the series, that's how fast he should be. Most wouldn't agree with this, but there's utterly no denial that Super Saiyan 4 Goku is at least MFTL+ in combat speed.

Nah no scans are needed , I believe you and by the way would you give a few feats suggesting that goku can use is speed in battle?

#89 Edited by Pope052 (3108 posts) - - Show Bio
#90 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio
#91 Posted by Pope052 (3108 posts) - - Show Bio

@theamazingbatman:

Well, in basically all of his fights he battles at intense speeds.

#92 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio
#93 Edited by Pope052 (3108 posts) - - Show Bio
#94 Posted by generator2000 (1087 posts) - - Show Bio

Screw the bullcrap Math. Buuhan was a universe buster with the vice shout. If Goku fused with Vegeta was MORE powerful than him, fthen Goku must be Powerful enough to destroy Star Sytems, or maybe Galaxies.

#95 Posted by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@theamazingbatman:

At his maximum, Multi-Galaxy+ would be equitable enough to label him at considering he was stated by to have enough power to light up (ignite) an entire galaxy in his Base Form whilst busting through a dimension using only a harnessed portion of his power. As for the feats and explanation of Namek Saga Goku's speed, i'd be happy to provide:

Firstly, Goku's reaction speed is clarified as light-speed by the feat of evading Tien's Solar Flare (solar flares are light and therefore travel at light-speed). Although there are attempts to suggest that this feat is inadequate, all of the claims lack any criteria of evidence as support.

In the battle with Vegeta, Goku himself admitted that Vegeta's speed was far beyond his own and Vegeta had speed-blitzed Goku in the fight (to be able to blitz, speed will need to exceed reaction speed). Vegeta is clearly faster than light in the Saiyan Saga, and ascending to the Namek Saga he was barely able to perceive Goku's movements and couldn't keep up with Goku at all which would label Goku also faster than light. I do have the scans if you'd like, so ask if you'd want to see them.

Although feats would contradict the claim of SSJ4 Goku being 1.6 Million X FTL, using the ability increases granted from Super Saiyan and strength amps throughout the series, that's how fast he should be. Most wouldn't agree with this, but there's utterly no denial that Super Saiyan 4 Goku is at least MFTL+ in combat speed.

Nah no scans are needed , I believe you and by the way would you give a few feats suggesting that goku can use is speed in battle?

there is other feats tha proves Goku and all saiyans are MFTL in their fights. we all remember when Roshi and Piccolo destroyed the moon, it took them almost no time, specially Piccolo who destroyed the moon almost immediately, that's a proof that energy beams are FTL. Then we have the feat where Gohan and Krilin shoot 2 energy beams as fast as they could and run away because their enemy was able to stop time. After stopping time, their enemy finds out those energy beams frosen in air very close to him, but what's more intriguing is that Krilin and Gohan were far away from the position where they shot the beams, that's an absolute proof that they can move as fast as their beams, meaning they can react MFTL

#96 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@theamazingbatman:

Uh, all of them.

LOL , okay but his fight with frieza or cell didn't look like that they were fighting at FTL speeds.

@theamazingbatman said:

@pope052 said:

@theamazingbatman:

At his maximum, Multi-Galaxy+ would be equitable enough to label him at considering he was stated by to have enough power to light up (ignite) an entire galaxy in his Base Form whilst busting through a dimension using only a harnessed portion of his power. As for the feats and explanation of Namek Saga Goku's speed, i'd be happy to provide:

Firstly, Goku's reaction speed is clarified as light-speed by the feat of evading Tien's Solar Flare (solar flares are light and therefore travel at light-speed). Although there are attempts to suggest that this feat is inadequate, all of the claims lack any criteria of evidence as support.

In the battle with Vegeta, Goku himself admitted that Vegeta's speed was far beyond his own and Vegeta had speed-blitzed Goku in the fight (to be able to blitz, speed will need to exceed reaction speed). Vegeta is clearly faster than light in the Saiyan Saga, and ascending to the Namek Saga he was barely able to perceive Goku's movements and couldn't keep up with Goku at all which would label Goku also faster than light. I do have the scans if you'd like, so ask if you'd want to see them.

Although feats would contradict the claim of SSJ4 Goku being 1.6 Million X FTL, using the ability increases granted from Super Saiyan and strength amps throughout the series, that's how fast he should be. Most wouldn't agree with this, but there's utterly no denial that Super Saiyan 4 Goku is at least MFTL+ in combat speed.

Nah no scans are needed , I believe you and by the way would you give a few feats suggesting that goku can use is speed in battle?

there is other feats tha proves Goku and all saiyans are MFTL in their fights. we all remember when Roshi and Piccolo destroyed the moon, it took them almost no time, specially Piccolo who destroyed the moon almost immediately, that's a proof that energy beams are FTL. Then we have the feat where Gohan and Krilin shoot 2 energy beams as fast as they could and run away because their enemy was able to stop time. After stopping time, their enemy finds out those energy beams frosen in air very close to him, but what's more intriguing is that Krilin and Gohan were far away from the position where they shot the beams, that's an absolute proof that they can move as fast as their beams, meaning they can react MFTL

Hmm , thanks for the info.

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