The Istari vs Death eaters and Voldemort

Saruman the White, Gandalf the White , Radagast the Brown, Pallando and Alatar the Blue

50 death eaters in total.

Istari are restricted to mortal forms.

Battle ends in death.

1 hour prep, both sides, full knowledge.

Battle takes place in destroyed Hogwarts.

If we use the movie versions then the Death Eaters and Voldemort stomp the Istari. Gandalf used very little spells in the movies. Gandalf does seem stronger than Voldemort as in the Hobbit movie he held 2 fully armored Dwarfs with his staff preventing them from falling out of the trees. If we where to use the book versions then the Istari probably stomp as i heard some pretty impessive things.

@nibbit:

i heard some pretty impessive things.

I look forward to hearing these impressive things backed up by sources.

Istari stomp.

@thebourneposter: feats?

Guys, don't even bother. The OP is biased towards the Harry Potter-verse. He always has been.

Istari win this easily.

@mattersuit: I'm not being biased. I'm simply asking why people think they win. I'm not going to debate with them.

@sethlol: Fair argument, can you give reasoning why?

@kingjohnrocks: You are notorious for being biased in other threads.

Istari wins here.

@shadowswordmaster: Reasons?

@kingjohnrocks: You keep asking for reasons. This is proof you have never read anything in the Lord of the Rings franchise (which includes the Hobbit stuff) or seen any of their movies. Otherwise you would know how easily the Istari stomp here.

Voldy and his DE's, though really it's pretty much Voldy alone.

@xanni15: Nice Castiel avatar.

@shootingnova: Thank you, sir!

@delek_reap: Actually, I've read the Silmarillion (Favorite chapter is chapter 3) The hobbit, all 3 LOTR books. I know what they are capable of. I'm just asking you why they stomp.

@xanni15: The Istari can't do anything to Voldemort?

@shootingnova Also, what do you think of this battle?

Team 2.

@kingjohnrocks: I don't remember anything from the books or movies of them displaying the necessary reaction feats. Sure, Gandalf defeated a Balrog but that's not in this fight. They all drove the Witch King away, IIRC, but he's not in this fight. I don't see the DE's posing more than just a distraction.

Lube

Haha That was funny.

@mattersuit: @nerx: I'm going to kindly ask both of you to stop.

@kingjohnrocks: fine, just stop flagging threads

@nerx: I only flagged one of your threads and it was filled with sexual innuedos.

The issue with Harry Potter vs. Tolkien wizardry is the fact that in both settings the very nature of magic works is completely different. It's almost an apples to oranges kind of comparrison. In Tolkiens world, Magic suffuses every thing but very very rarely do we see it manipulated directly. Even by the Istari. To them Magic is all about the 'long game' if you will and is often used indirectly. Where Voldemort would throw a fireball in dudes face... Gandalf would channel the blinding light of Anor, to cause a foe shrink back so he can wallop it with his magic sword.

You can't just go 'oh well Voldemorte wins then!' because if he was go to middle earth, he'd find he couldn't directly manipulate magic in the same way he is used to either. So where the fight takes place is more importantly.

My personal belief is that the Istari win easily in Middle Earth, but if Voldemort has 'home court' advantage it's a much closer fight, but I think the Istari still will because they are potential more power, especially as they figure out their magic is less restricted.

@scarbearer:

You can't just go 'oh well Voldemorte wins then!' because if he was go to middle earth, he'd find he couldn't directly manipulate magic in the same way he is used to either. So where the fight takes place is more importantly.

My personal belief is that the Istari win easily in Middle Earth, but if Voldemort has 'home court' advantage it's a much closer fight, but I think the Istari still will because they are potential more power, especially as they figure out their magic is less restricted.

I take issue with this. Let me tell you why:

Where in either books does it say people from different universes can't use the same magic? It doesn't. His feats are with spells, so that's what we are forced to use in Harry Potter battles. Secondly, "Istari win easily in Middle Earth" Please, I need proof. I need sources saying they can beat this many magically skilled people. I'm not debating for either side, so I won't present proof for Voldemort.

Third. "Istari still win because they are potentionally more powerful, especially as they figure out their magic is less restricted"

Wrong. Istari do not know ANY Harry Potter spells. None. Thus, their magic wouldn't change. I am asking for feats and sources, please, nothing else.

Yeah me too I'm not biased but I'd say Voldemort solos in less than a minute. I've read some Tolkien literature but I have to confess I never really understood the powers of the Istari so I'll have to go by the movies, and the fight would take place somewhere they can all use their magic's full potential.

The three Istari we saw (Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast) mostly rely on normal weapons and h2h (swords, staffs and such). They do have some powerful incantations (like Saruman calling a storm while the fellowship was crossing the mountain), but their spells are all too slow, inaccurate and clumsy to be used in fast paced battles HP style. Actually, the type of magic most useful for them against Voldy and DEs would be the magic we saw in Gandalf vs Saruman fight. It's fast and direct, but far too weak comparing to the majority of HP spells. I'll assume the other Istari aren't more powerful than this.

On the other hand, both in the books and in the movies, Voldy and his men were fast, accurate and deadly. They ran around, teleported, used protective magical shields, took cover, even flied. Their magic is far more practical in battle. It's more suited to actual military combat and strategies. Almost like some sci-fi battle, but instead of laser guns, jetpacks, aircrafts, deflector shields and teleportation devices, we have different types of magic for everything. Also don't forget brooms...

Conclusion: Going by the movies, all 5 Istari get soloed by Voldy and actually every more experienced Death Eater in not more than a minute. In HP universe they'd be among the weakest wizards. That is, if we assume once they die they don't come back (take away Voldy's horcruxes to make them all mortal). Even then they'd just get owned again.

Book versions? I'll leave this to someone with more knowledge in that area :)

@kingjohnrocks:

I still think we're in something of an apples to oranges discussion, but you do make a fair point so I'll provide a feat.

I am going to go with Gandalf's most famous. Fighting the Balrog. He fought that thing while falling several miles. Survived the impact at the bottom. Continued to fight with the thing for several days (I don't remember how long exactly. The movie doesn't state exactly and I'd have to look it up in the book). Finally managed to killed. Died of exhaustion. Hung out in heaven for a bit and realized, "Crap I those dumb-asses are lost without me" stuffed his soul back in his dead body. Healed and rejuvenated it stronger than before.

The Balrog is (well was) an immortal. It was so old that it was actually a servant of Morgoth (the Dark Lord that ruled, before Sauron ever came to power) was capable of wielding power magic if needed, and wielded weapons of living flame which Gandalf was able to survive being struck by repeatedly.

Now I only read the books and saw the movies each one a piece so I'll concede if I am wrong, but I don't recall Voldemort or any of the Deatheaters having any feats comparable to that.

@scarbearer:

I am going to go with Gandalf's most famous. Fighting the Balrog. He fought that thing while falling several miles. Survived the impact at the bottom. Continued to fight with the thing for several days (I don't remember how long exactly. The movie doesn't state exactly and I'd have to look it up in the book). Finally managed to killed. Died of exhaustion. Hung out in heaven for a bit and realized, "Crap I those dumb-asses are lost without me" stuffed his soul back in his dead body. Healed and rejuvenated it stronger than before.

....

What?

First, he fought the weakest Balrog ever, Durin's bane. The strongest Balrog, the equal to Sauron, General and lord of the Balrog's Gothmog was STABBED by a regular blade and died because a RIVER quenched his flames..

"There he became weary from the strangling heat and was beaten down by a great demon, even Gothmog lord of Balrogs, son of Melko. But lo! Ecthelion, whose face was of the pallor of grey steel and whose shield-arm hung limp at his side, strode above him as he fell; and that Gnome drave at the demon, yet did not give him his death, getting rather a wound to his sword-arm that his weapon left his grasp. Then leapt Ecthelion lord of the Fountain, fairest of the Noldoli, full at Gothmog even as he raised his whip, and his helm that had a spike upon it he drave into that evil breast, and he twined his legs about his foeman's thighs; and the Balrog yelled and fell forward; but those two dropped into the basin of the king's fountain which was very deep. There found that creature his bane; and Ecthelion sank steel-laden into the depths, and so perished the lord of the Fountain after fiery battle in cool waters"

"Of the deeds of desperate valour there done, by the chieftains of the noble houses and their warriors, and not least by Tuor, much is told in The Fall of Condolin: of the battle of Ecthelion of the Fountain with Gothmog Lord of Balrogs in the very square of the King, where each slew the other, and of the defence of the tower of Turgon by the people of his household, until the tower was overthrown: and mighty was its fall and the fall of Turgon in its ruin"

"Ecthelion 'was that lord of the house of the Fountain, who had the fairest voice and was most skilled in musics of all the Gondothlim. He won renown for ever by his slaying of Gothmog son of Melko, whereby Tuor was saved from death but Ecthelion was drowned with his foe in the king's fountain.'"

Gothmog 'was a son of Melko and the ogress Fluithuin and his name is Strife-and-hatred, and he was Captain of the Balrogs and lord of Melko's hosts ere fair Ecthelion slew him at the taking of Gondolin - From The Book of the Lost Tales, Chapter III.

Let's highlight key notes.

"There he became weary from the strangling heat and was beaten down by a great demon, even Gothmog lord of Balrogs, son of Melko. But lo! Ecthelion, whose face was of the pallor of grey steel and whose shield-arm hung limp at his side, strode above him as he fell;

"Ecthelion 'was that lord of the house of the Fountain, who had the fairest voice and was most skilled in musics of all the Gondothlim. He won renown for ever by his slaying of Gothmog son of Melko, whereby Tuor was saved from death but Ecthelion was drowned with his foe in the king's fountain.'"-From The Book of Lost Tales II, Chapter 3.

He drowned in the River (which is the fountain). If the general of the Balrogs can be killed by a river, if the son of Melkor/Morgoth can be killed by a river,

So, if the son of a guy who can blow up stars is killed by a river, the Death Eaters can use water spells on him.

You also said Gandalf DECIDED to go back into his body. False. It was not his time yet and under the power of Eru did he come back, not his own power.

I'm not debating for either side, I'm just correcting your inaccuracies. I do not know who wins or not.

Note how the OP only agrees with one side of the debate, and furiously disagrees with the other, completely ignores every bit of evidence that is provided as to why his chosen side would lose, only knows low-balling BS "evidence" to put the other team down so his preferred team can pull a win.

I learned a long time ago that there's no point talking to this guy. He's such a Potterverse wanker it makes me, as a Harry Potter fan, sick to my stomach.

@mattersuit:

Note how the OP only agrees with one side of the debate, and furiously disagrees with the other, completely ignores every bit of evidence that is provided as to why his chosen side would lose

What HE said is Gandalf stuffed his soul into his own body. However, the book states Eru brought him back. Think I'm a Harry Potter wanker because I'm following the books? Well, provide evidence, then.

only knows low-balling BS "evidence" to put the other team down so his preferred team can pull a win.

It's BS that the son of a guy who blew up Stars was killed by a fountain, even though the books say he is..? Whatever you say.

I'm just waiting for evidence. I'm not debating for either side, just correcting innacuracies.

Ahem, the book states the following:

Naked I was sent back for a brief time, until my task is done. And naked I lay upon the mountain-top. The tower behind was crumbled into dust, the window gone; the ruined stair was choked with burned and broken stone. I was alone, forgotten, without escape upon the hard horn of the world. There I lay staring upward, while the stars wheeled over, and each day was as long as a life-age of the earth. Faint to my ears came the gathered rumour of all lands: the springing and the dying, the song and the weeping, and the slow everlasting groan of overburdened stone. And so at the last Gwaihir the Windlord found me again, and he took me up and bore me away.

'"Ever am I fated to be your burden, friend at need," I said.

'"A burden you have been," he answered, "but not so now. Light as a swan's feather in my claw you are. The Sun shines through you. Indeed I do not think you need me any more: were I to let you fall you would float upon the wind."

'"Do not let me fall!" I gasped, for I felt life in me again. "Bear me to Lothlorien!"

'"That indeed is the command of the Lady Galadriel who sent me to look for you," he answered.

It said he was "sent back". It doesn't say by who. Saying it was Eru is actually speculation. The only person who was named was Gwaihir, king of the Eagles.

only knows low-balling BS "evidence" to put the other team down so his preferred team can pull a win.

It's BS that the son of a guy who blew up Stars was killed by a fountain, even though the books say he is..? Whatever you say.

I'm just waiting for evidence. I'm not debating for either side, just correcting innacuracies.

And also, you're taking the fight between Gothmog and Ecthelion so out of context it's stupid. Like you missed the bit where Ecthelion died, too.

Also, tell me where, precisely, it says that Gothmog was the most powerful Balrog? All I see is him being called "the lord of the Balrogs" and "the son of Melkor".

And I've actually looked up "The Book of Lost Tales II, Chapter 3". It's about Beren and Tinuviel stealing a Silmaril from Melkor's crown.

The only reference to the fight between Ecthelion and Gothmog I've found is The Quenta Silmarillion, Chapter 23: Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin.

Of the deeds of desperate valour there done, by the chieftains of the noble houses and their warriors, and not least by Tuor, much is told in The Fall of Gondolin: of the battle of Ecthelion of the Fountain with Gothmog Lord of Balrogs in the very square of the King, where each slew the other, and of the defence of the tower of Turgon by the people of his household, until the tower was overthrown; and mighty was its fall and the fall of Turgon in its ruin.

As can be seen here:

http://readanybooks.net/fantasticfiction/The_Silmarillon/15576.html

Whereas your so-called evidence:

http://readanybooks.net/fantasticfiction/The_Book_of_Lost_Tales/15655.html

Time to own up to your bullshtting, kjr.

@delek_reap said:

I've read the majority of Tolkein's books as well as his son's, seen all the movies at least a hundred times each (except The Hobbit), as well as researched the Tolkein universe extensively online.

Where is this evidence that points to Istari stomping with ease?

Please, enlighten me. And don't say "Voldemort's magic wouldn't harm them." Feats > claims

This isn't true at all. The reason Gandalf doesn't actively fight in Middle-Earth is because that wasn't his mission. He was sent to aid Men, Dwarves and Elves in their fight against Sauron, but only through counsel. He initially requested to be excused from the task because he feared Sauron and was not strong enough to face him.

"because if he was to go to middle earth, he'd find he couldn't directly manipulate magic in the same way he is used to either"

What evidence is there for this... that the atmosphere of Tolkein's universe somehow dims the power of magic?

When Maiar take physical form, their powers are overall severely crippled. In addition, when they die in physical form, their overall power in spiritual form permanently decreased, as evidenced after Sauron died during the fall of Numenor.

Voldemort isn't a Maiar in physical form, he's a human with insanely powerful capabilities. This is comparable to Fingolfin taking on Morgoth in single combat; only Voldemort is hundreds if not thousands of times more powerful than Fingolfin, and Gandalf is hundreds if not thousands of times less powerful than Morgoth.

Fighting the Balrog... yes... Gandalf had extreme difficulty with that. Voldemort, on the other hand, would be intent on twisting it to his will, making it his own weapon.

If Voldemort wanted to kill the beast, there's absolutelynothing indicating a simple Avada Kedavra would fail.

If, by chance, it somehow did fail, he could win with another single thought by apparating Durin's Bane say, to the bottom of the ocean, or miles into the air, letting it crash down to its death. Gandalf visibly effected Durin's Bane with simple lightning strikes and simple swings of his Elf-crafted sword; Voldemort would one-shot Durin's Bane.

It was indeed Eru Illuvatar himself who brought Gandalf back to life after dying against Durin's Bane, as it was beyond the power of the rest of the Valar who are tied to the physical realm of space and time, and thus obviously way out of the power of Gandalf, a lesser Maiar.

"When he was sent to Middle-earth it was a mere prudent plan by the Valar, but the Authority had taken the plan and enlarged it at the moment of its failure. He was not sent back by the "gods"; he had passed "out of thought and time" and was re-clothed by the Authority."

- Letters156

@mattersuit:

It said he was "sent back". It doesn't say by who. Saying it was Eru is actually speculation. The only person who was named was Gwaihir, king of the Eagles.

I want a source for that because you could have deleted some parts. I distinctly remember Eru being mentioned.

And also, you're taking the fight between Gothmog and Ecthelion so out of context it's stupid. Like you missed the bit where Ecthelion died, too.

Also, tell me where, precisely, it says that Gothmog was the most powerful Balrog? All I see is him being called "the lord of the Balrogs" and "the son of Melkor".

He is repeatedly called the General of the Balrogs. The lord of the Balrogs. The greatest of the Balrogs. The point being: It's accepted he died to a river. He did die to a river. Gothmog is mentioned in many books. The silmillarion just gives an outline of what happened to Gothmog. Are you implying I wrote the quote myself? No no, Mattersuit. My writing may be good, but not as good as Tolkien's. Tolkien gateway themselves reference to the Lost books part two. And I read it myself. But, if you're saying Durin's Bane is stronger then his lord, then it is you who is speaking nonsense.

http://readanybooks.net/fantasticfiction/The_Book_of_Lost_Tales/15655.html

Sir, I didn't get my evidence from that site.

Time to own up to your bullshtting, kjr.

...Can you and your trolls go back under the bridge and leave me alone?

The Istari would win it wouldn't be easy because they are limited to mortal form. But still due to them having prep which i think they would use better than the enemy, lotr magic may not be so visible like in harry potter but it is much stronger as they can influence the world on a larger scale.

I gave you the source I got it from, and cross-referenced it with a copy I downloaded onto my laptop.

He is repeatedly called the General of the Balrogs. The lord of the Balrogs. The greatest of the Balrogs. The point being: It's accepted he died to a river. He did die to a river. Gothmog is mentioned in many books. The silmillarion just gives an outline of what happened to Gothmog.

Yes, Gothmog died to a river. However, other Balrogs, such as Durin's Bane have superior durability/surviving feats, hence it takes away from the "greatest" a bit.

Are you implying I wrote the quote myself?

Nope. Wouldn't dream of it. Simply want to see where your so-called proof is coming from.

No no, Mattersuit. My writing may be good, but not as good as Tolkien's.

I well know that.

Tolkien gateway themselves reference to the Lost books part two. And I read it myself. But, if you're saying Durin's Bane is stronger then his lord, then it is you who is speaking nonsense.

By FEATS, Durin's Bane outperforms Gothmog in certain areas. That is a FACT.

Sir, I didn't get my evidence from that site.

No, I did. Along with a copy of the books on my laptop that say the same thing.

...Can you and your trolls go back under the bridge and leave me alone?

Troll? Now you'll start slinging insults because I caught you out in a blatant LIE? Great debating skills.

@izbighulk said:

Feats > claims

@mattersuit:

I gave you the source I got it from, and cross-referenced it with a copy I downloaded onto my laptop.

The other guy gave you a source, you gladly ignored it.

Yes, Gothmog died to a river. However, other Balrogs, such as Durin's Bane have superior durability/surviving feats, hence it takes away from the "greatest" a bit.

Speculation. Gothmog is the general/lord of the Balrogs, son of Melkor, if he died to a river then I'm sure Durin's Bane can, too.

Nope. Wouldn't dream of it. Simply want to see where your so-called proof is coming from.

Someone has already stated it.

By FEATS, Durin's Bane outperforms Gothmog in certain areas. That is a FACT.

Does that make Durin's Bane stronger then the Son of Melkor, general of the Balrogs?

Troll? Now you'll start slinging insults because I caught you out in a blatant LIE? Great debating skills.

I didn't lie.

Aren't the Istari Island busters with their magic?

Where? I didn't see it.

Speculation. Gothmog is the general/lord of the Balrogs, son of Melkor, if he died to a river then I'm sure Durin's Bane can, too.

Except he tanked a massive lake and a blizzard. So his feats are superior in that regard

Someone has already stated it.

I want you to state it. Where do YOU get this from.

Does that make Durin's Bane stronger then the Son of Melkor, general of the Balrogs?

Arguably, yes. Feats > Statements.

I didn't lie.

But you did.

@cybrilious4 said:

What feats do they have to suggest they're anywhere near this?

The one responsible for the downfall of Numenor was, again, Eru Illuvatar himself, and it wasn't just island-busting as he reformed the entire planet, which resulted in Numenor falling beneath the sea

@thc: Well I heard one of these guys dropping an island on some tough character in

Thor vs Lord of the Rings.

@mattersuit:

Where? I didn't see it.

Because you ignored it,.

@thc

"When he was sent to Middle-earth it was a mere prudent plan by the Valar, but the Authority had taken the plan and enlarged it at the moment of its failure. He was not sent back by the "gods"; he had passed "out of thought and time" and was re-clothed by the Authority."

- Letters156

Except he tanked a massive lake and a blizzard. So his feats are superior in that regard

Yet, nearly everything about Durin's is featless. His whip is featless. He survived a blizzard (show me where it says lake) You are acting as Durin is the Lord of the Balrogs, he isn't.

I want you to state it. Where do YOU get this from.

Showed you where I got eru from, let me direct you to the pages about Gothmog is. I've attatched external links so you can take a look at this yourself.

1. ↑J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Book of Lost Tales Part Two, "The Fall of Gondolin" , p. 176
2. ↑J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Book of Lost Tales Part Two, "The Fall of Gondolin" , p. 179
3. ↑J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Book of Lost Tales Part Two, "The Fall of Gondolin" , pp. 183-184

And as Tolkien gateway points out, the only full narrative of the Fall of Gondolin is in The Book of Last Tales Part two.

Your move?

Arguably, yes. Feats > Statements.

My point still stands: If the Son of Morgoth can die to a river, there's no indication a river wouldn't work on Bane.

!@thc

Do you think Durin's Bane could die to a river?

@kingjohnrocks said:

When Durin's Bane and Gandalf fell into the subterranean lake after Khazud-dum, Gandalf noted the lake "almost chilled [his] heart", and the Balrog emerged from the lake as "a thing of slime, stronger than a strangling snake," and fled back to his tower, where Gandalf pursued him. His flames regrew at the top and his power was restored, and their fight began, which Gandalf eventually won.

So, not a chance, though depending on the strength and/or composition of the river, it might weaken it. In earlier books, Tolkein describes "armies of balrogs," though his son later elaborates that there were actually never more than 7, and they are all Maiar like Gandalf.

As for feats against the Balrogs from that time, they should still stand. One of the greatest warriors of the First Age, Ecthelion of the Fountain, slew and was slewn by Gothmog, and Glorfindel the Golden was launched from a mountaintop with another Balrog, both presumed dead, though Glorfindel later appears in Lord of the Rings. Balrogs are described as "not casually destroyed, requiring great power," and only rivaled by dragons in ferocity and destruction.

@thc: How about an ocean?

@kingjohnrocks said:

Let me clarify; the balrog emerged as "a thing of slime" from the subterranean lake and was severely weakened by the "heart-chilling" water, which prompted him to flee from Gandalf.

I'm sure an ocean would be a stomp, which is why I suggested it here:

No, because I DIDN'T SEE IT.

@thc

"When he was sent to Middle-earth it was a mere prudent plan by the Valar, but the Authority had taken the plan and enlarged it at the moment of its failure. He was not sent back by the "gods"; he had passed "out of thought and time" and was re-clothed by the Authority."

- Letters156

Except he tanked a massive lake and a blizzard. So his feats are superior in that regard

Yet, nearly everything about Durin's is featless. His whip is featless. He survived a blizzard (show me where it says lake) You are acting as Durin is the Lord of the Balrogs, he isn't.

Shown you before.

Showed you where I got eru from, let me direct you to the pages about Gothmog is. I've attatched external links so you can take a look at this yourself.

1. ↑J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Book of Lost Tales Part Two, "The Fall of Gondolin" , p. 176
2. ↑J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Book of Lost Tales Part Two, "The Fall of Gondolin" , p. 179
3. ↑J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Book of Lost Tales Part Two, "The Fall of Gondolin" , pp. 183-184

And as Tolkien gateway points out, the only full narrative of the Fall of Gondolin is in The Book of Last Tales Part two.

Your move?

All those are links to a wiki. Not where I can read your so-called evidence.

And the first point made on that is it's questionable canonicity.

My point still stands: If the Son of Morgoth can die to a river, there's no indication a river wouldn't work on Bane.

Of course there is. He survived a massive lake, and continued the fight, then reignited his flames in the middle of a blizzard, on the top of a mountain.

@mattersuit:

All those are links to a wiki. Not where I can read your so-called evidence.

And the first point made on that is it's questionable canonicity.

Actually, since you own all the books, I'm directing you to the pages where I got my quote on. Go to those pages and you'll see.

Massed Avada Kedavra. Should win considering it's 51-5 and all they have to do is hit to insta-kill.

When did I say I own all the books?

I said I have SOME of the books downloaded onto my laptop.