the doctor who vs anti monitor

fight takes place: in the dcu

- both are at their most powerful

- both have one month prep

- morals off

Anti-Monitor. The guy destroyed entire universes with absolute ease.

Depends on prep time, no prep time, and morals on-off.. mostly on the first part.

The Doctor hits him with a big ball of Wibbly-Wobbly Timey-Whimey stuff

+1 lol

The Last Time Lord takes this. Yeah, he's nowhere near as powerful, per say, but he's beaten guys who are as scary as the Anti-monitor while just thinking on the fly. With prep-time, plus his TARDIS, he takes this.

this this is the same being who took out the original multivers of dc, trillions including barry allen, supergirl, robin n huntress of earth 2.

doctor who only wins in fan base but the Anti-Monitor wins this battle

He's not beating the Lord of Time. Look, the only thing that ever holds the Doctor back are his morals and his fear of causing some sort of paradox in time. With morals off, AND a month of prep, I have no doubt that he could figure out what Anti-Monitor is, where he came from, what gives him his power, and exactly how to stop him. He tends to do all of that in the course of a few minutes, so a month would be no problem. Especially when he can go back to before the universe was created and simply end Anti-Monitor before it was ever created.

A Doctor with morals off is a truly scary thing.

Nope

corrected.

Doctor solves multiverse ending crisis every season end. If DC multiverse had him, they'd never have to worry about anti m problem at all.

anti monitor.

He technically killed the time lords, Those were the guys who invented gravity, ended time and stuff, removed the vortex from rose, when she absorbed it and became bad wolf, (an alias), omniscient and nigh-omnipotent being. Escaped the literally unbreakable prison built for him by armies of the world, and solved the multiversal collapse by using the same prison.. When the multiverse was, literally, ending. His death was a fixed point in time and space, and causing a problem with that caused time to end completely, he solved that by dying and yet escaped his death. Speaking of which, a human absorbing the time vortex made her omniscient and near omnipotent. A time lord doing so, becomes, in doctor's literal words, God.

I do like anti m, but he's practically outclassed by the Doctor. His feats are utter redefinition of PIS

um ... uh... hmmm i dont really know how to counter argue cuz i dont really understand alot of what you said (time travel is confusing), but i mean you mind telling me how exactly tho how he does beat anti m in a more of a feats of what he can do

besides time traveling, what other powers does who have? would he be able to deflect a projected shot from AM?

Several of the Doctor's threats are more dangerous and arguably more powerful than anti-monitor.

1) Satan. Literally Satan. Or more accurately, the entity that existed before the universe and time (which even the Doctor at first states is impossible, yet it is true) and that is so powerful and malevolent that, even locked away in a planet held perpetually above a black hole, its essence seeped out and creeped into people's minds and inspired the idea of Satan and every Satan-like figure in myth and religion. He beats this entity with a power that he then claims is inconsequential to the Time Lords, because they invented it.

2) The Dalek Empire which had created a reality bomb that was so powerful that it would not only destroy all matter in their universe, but every other alternate universe as well. Essentially completing Anti-monitor's goal that has taken it forever, in a few seconds. The Daleks have this level of technology and they are still considered to be at best equal to the Time Lords. The Time Lords which the Doctor completely destroyed and neutralized.

3) When the Master caught him off guard and took his TARDIS from him, formulated an army from the end of the entire universe, had him kidnapped and butchered the technology of the TARDIS so that it could manipulate reality and contain the paradox created from his future army killing their ancestors (gives you an idea as to how phenomenal the technology of the TARDIS is), while cut off from all his tools and friends and reduced to a pathetic shell that could hardly stand and held in a bird-cage, he managed to formulate a plan to completely subvert all of it, gave himself an incredible (if rather poorly defined) power-boost, and saved all of creation, and he pulled it off without a hitch.

4) Destiny itself essentially. Yeah, he found a way to subvert a fixed point in time which stated he was going to die at a specific place and time. Fixed points cannot be changed in the Doctor Who universe, no matter what. If you manage to force it to change, all of time begins to unravel and the universe will be destroyed. Through sheer cleverness he manages to subvert this fixed point in a way that made it seem like he died but didn't. He beat his own fate and destiny. That isn't possible. The Doctor does impossible at least twice a day before breakfast.

I have no doubt that he would be able to stop and destroy the anti-monitor. Especially if you take off his morals. That has always been the only thing that holds him back. If he's willing to do whatever it takes to obliterate the anti-monitor, he could. Time travel to the dawn of creation and stop him before he is ever created, or just figure out the physics of how Anit-monitor works and use the technology of the TARDIS to turn it against him. The Doctor could do it.

@russellmania77: Nah, It's ok. I some time ago argued that Goku could speed blitz the doctor, because of his human-like DNA. maybe two-three months ago. He's physically very human-like, speed, strength, reflexes etc. But what he pulls off is beyond your imagination. He's like batman on multiversal scale. Except that he never plans anything, just makes it up as he goes. Even if he's human, he can do stuff like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBU3ly-aahs

The only problem he has is morals. He ran away from these same guys, abandoned his powers, became human for a while, and did this when things got extreme. The exact extent of his power is unknown, as this is perhaps the only time he uses it. Other than that, he's just like any time traveller, who suddenly comes up with a plan to stop a city from burning to stopping a multiverse from collapsing. If I recall right, he beat a living universe by allowing his ship's soul back in it's place, and things like that.

Do look into the series (I'm NOT giving the advice "lol you need to see doctor who", but it's just a recommendation for something to watch). I'd not be surprised if he suddenly comes up with an anti nigh-omnipotence device with a broken pc and a coke can. Not joking, seriously.

It's not a one sided prep fight, like he normally has.

With far, far less prep time, AM made a canon that could destroy 5 universes in a single blast. And anyway, Anti-Monitor can time travel too. He was going to go back to the dawn of time and erase everything. Not even the freaking Spectre amped by the most powerful magicians in the DCU could beat him. Furthermore, Anti-Monitor didn't just want to destroy the multiverse, he needed to gradually consume worlds to add to his own power.

uh, obviously, AM can time travel. Doctor never had a one sided prep fight. Nope. He makes up his plans In the fight. Time travel does not equate one to the Doctor.

Just wanted to be sure he knew, is all.

Well, I'd have said he can even if he didn't have tt showings. He's a multiversal powerhouse, why shouldn't he be able to time travel?

It's just that some of them haven't been shown to, that's all. It's possible some of them can't.

@comicstooge: I'd say they do. I mean, what's the point of being a near all powerful being if you can't time travel lol

Well, we've never seen Spectre time travel (at least not to my knowledge) so it isn't really usable in a debate, to say he can because he's a very powerful reality warper.

The Doctor maybe.

But think of it for a minute. It doesn't even make any sense for the spectre to be unable to timetravel. With all that power, can't he build a time machine? lol

Anti-Monitor.

COIE Anti-Monitor at full power curbstomps.

The Time Lords are basically Oans (AKA The Guardians of the Universe AKA Leaders of the Green Lantern Corps) or nabby the Watchers from Marvel and the TARDIS is basically like a Cosmic Cude (or nabby a Cosmic Egg) and even all of those would get destroyed by The Anti-Monitor at full power and this is coming from a big Whovian.

P.S. I know were talking about the Doctor in this battle and not the whole Time Lord race but still.

Maybe he's doesn't see the need. His mission doesn't really require him to travel through time, just punish bad people.

actually the spector can time travel, he's been known to stop people from trying to go to the begining of time, but really that was just SA superman when he was going to fast and was time traveling, and the 2nd time was following anti monitor

In that case, I stand corrected.

how??

how?

@billzthegodofdestruction: He destroyed the DC multiverse and stalemated the Spectre! the answer is pretty obvious.

The doctor proabably loses, since this fight takes place outside of the DW universe, and the Doctor only has power in theere because they have no rational or consistent laws of physics besdies this guys ability to always contrive a stupid way out of a situation

Actually, at the end of their fight, Spectre was in a coma while AM was fine, despite being momentarily thwarted. And Spectre was amped at the time.

@russellmania77: I apologise. i was underestimating Anti monitor, I needed a bit of revision on the guy. Doctor cannot defeat him without ascending via time vortex, which he has never done, even with morals off. He does, in fact, outclass most of the things doctor has faced, (as I don't know about the original seris), but I can surely say spectre would've been a lot happier with his help. That does NOT take my advise back on watching it. The seris, with all it's failed effects, does not reduce his awesomeness. (I assure you, once you've seen him, you are likely to make the same mistake I just did. It's just impossible to imagine he'd lose, if he doesn't want.)

Anti-Monitor, fairly easily.

All the wibbly wobbly wimey stuff in the universe can't help the Doctor here.

@princearagorn1: eh its kewls, i still thought kinda anti monitor would win some how but i didnt know enough about who to have an argument. and yeah i do wanna start watching it but i usually like to watch stuff from the start, and it would be kinda hard sense that show is extremely old.

Stop doing fights where the Doctor gets prep time. If he has prep he automatically wins. He falls under the category of omnipotent when you give him prep.

@russellmania77: Even if you start from the new show, the 10th doctor, you will get most of the things. I haven't seen the old series, too, but never had a problem about any concept. Don't miss it out though, it's one of the best shows out there.

Except he doesn't automatically win. He loses, actually.

@comicstooge: 1 day of prep, Doctor looks into the Time Vortex, and becomes an omnipotent being, and wipes Anti Monitor from existance. I really see this as a pointless battle, any battle with The Doctor really, hes defeated much more powerful people than Anti Monitor. The only people that I can think of that could defeat the Doctor would be anyone who is SUPREMELY omnipotent, like The Living Tribunal.

If an AMPED version of the Spectre (the Vengeance of God) couldn't erase him, how can the Doctor? If you really think only the LT can beat the Doctor, you might need to brush up on certain characters.

Spectre isn't all that strong to begin with, he is regularly humiliated by michael and lucifer, (I could also say got kicked by batman just for lolz).

Using a time vortex gave a human omniscience, and virtual omnipotence. And doctor depowered her like nothing. A timelord looking in it, becomes, in doctor's literal quotes, a vengeful God. And doctor has never thrown the word around as a title. Just because God's vengeance couldn't beat him, doesn't mean a God level being can't. Only reason he's not using it is he has never done it, even in extreme cases, and even bloodlusted. Other than that, his usual methods aren't going to take him very far here, unless he pulls a dalek and makes a reality bomb, which I don't see happening.

@inphase: Living tribunal isn't Supremely omnipotent. Marvel follows a single God system, so there can be only one Supremely omnipotent Deity, that's toaa.

Michael and Lucifer are ridiculously strong, being smacked around by them is nothing to be ashamed of, the Doctor would be humiliated by them too. Anyway, in regards to the Batkick: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/citizenbane/blog/the-batkick-clearing-the-air/78299/

I see no reason to believe that statement wasn't hyperbole just because he doesn't use the term 'god' often. Batman doesn't throw the term god around much either, but he's used it to describe Superman, even though he obviously isn't one, so I don't see your point.If the Doctor never uses the Time Vortex even when he's bloodlusted then why even bring it up?

Just to give you an idea of how powerful the Spectre has with his amp he was able to see concepts even his master, the Presence (God) couldn't. And AM left him in a coma.

@comicstooge: Well, It wasn't me who brought the time vortex up, actually, but I was just explaining it. There is a whole lot of difference between batman and the Doctor. In comics, the term God is often used as a title, but Doctor, on the other hand never uses it as such. And turning rose from omniscient and nigh omnipotent back to human, without any amp, without any struggle, and without the vortex, backs it up. Secondly, Is there anything that fixes Presence equivalant of toaa? I've heard people arguing about it, and searched myself, but I actually couldn't. And your scan seems to provide some contrary evidence, too. If Anti monitor > amped spectre > presence, how is presence even contending as a God, considering DC follows uni God system as well?

Fair enough. I know that, I'm just saying that most of the time characters throw that term around, it's hyperbole. Backs what up? You're saying the Doctor can take away omnipotencey from anyone, regardless of how or where they draw their power from? If that's the case, why was he worried about The Master looking into the Vortex if he could just magically take his powers away? The whole 'Presence' thing in the DCU is rather confusing and ill defined, but it's generally excepted he's a God above all others and pretty much is shaped by the writers of the comic. Regardless, the purpose of that scan was just to show you how heavily amped the Spectre was. If you want the answers to your questions, you'll have to ask someone a lot smarter then me. I suggest possibly one of the forum characters or maybe Gen discussion. The DC comics forum is probably your best bet.

@comicstooge: Not omnipotence. The energy which made her that powerful, it was taken back by the doctor with nearly no effort at all. If you have forgotten, the master himself is a timelord. Obviously Doc is going to be worried..Well, I'll go around searching for the presence issue for a while though. Will let you know if I find anything.

Do you have a video or whatever of him taking her energy? And thanks, good luck on your search.