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#1 Edited by BigCimmerian (10098 posts) - - Show Bio

- Superman doesn't have super speed and he cannot fly

- This is Marvel Hercules pre Chaos War, he has skin of Nemean lion

- Morals on round 1 morals off round 2, who wins and why?

#2 Posted by Saren (27098 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman.

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#3 Posted by CaptainRodgers (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is still a great deal stronger .

#4 Posted by Saren (27098 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not so much strength (Herc should be in that league, at least technically) as it is Superman being able to run Herc down by using multiple abilities at the same time. And in Round 2, he should still see all of Herc's moves coming a mile away thanks to his superhuman perceptions, unless you're classifying that under speed.

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#5 Posted by Billy Batson (59328 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman.
BB

#6 Posted by BigCimmerian (10098 posts) - - Show Bio

Well if Herc is slightly stronger than Thor, he should be stronger than Superman too or atleast his equal

#7 Edited by Jeronimo (804 posts) - - Show Bio

How is supes putting down an immortal with strength exceededing his?

Hercules had to hold up the Earth on his shoulders as one of his labors. And then he held up the entire heavens for Atlas.

The last time I checked, supes needed GL and WW's help to drag the Earth.

#8 Posted by Saren (27098 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jeronimo said:

How is supes putting down an immortal with strength exceededing his?

Hercules had to hold up the Earth on his shoulders as one of his labors. And then he held up the entire heavens for Atlas.

The last time I checked, supes needed GL and WW's help to drag the Earth.

He had the help of Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter, not Green Lantern.

.......and then he also pulled the Earth on his own with a harness Green Lantern made to cover the planet during Faces of Evil: Starbreaker.

And holding up the heavens? How much do the heavens weigh, exactly? It's unquantifiable, sorta like when Supes and Wondy slowed the Spectre's fall. Spectre's made of eternity.

Hercules only has the option of strength. Superman can slug it out while also pulling out the heat vision and freeze breath, among other things. Hell, in Round 2 he can use the heat vision at full strength to slowly but surely roast Herc from a distance.

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#9 Posted by Morpheus_ (29910 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

Superman.

#10 Posted by Jeronimo (804 posts) - - Show Bio

Hercules is a true badass. No joke:

Plus, Hercules Nemean lion skin, on top of Hercules' own formaidable durability, would shield him from supes heat vision and cold breath:

#11 Posted by Saren (27098 posts) - - Show Bio

.......because Skrull heat vision is totally the same thing.....

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#12 Posted by Morpheus_ (29910 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

.......because Skrull heat vision is totally the same thing.....

Well, Kl'bn was supposed to the Skrull God, not just a simple Skrull. But it's not like Hercules was beating him during their fight.
#13 Posted by Deranged Midget (18231 posts) - - Show Bio

Hercules is basically in the same strength class as Superman but as @CitizenBane already mentioned, Superman has a plethora of abilities that he could use to gain an advantage quickly rather than slug it out.

Superman both rounds.

#14 Posted by CaptainRodgers (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: I'd say the strength plays a factor , Herc. hasn't matched Supes' strength .

Although I agree , the heat vision will factor in his win as well.

#15 Posted by Killemall (18761 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah hercules, who constantly loses to Hulk due to lack of durability would beat superman?

Superman stomps!

#16 Posted by Immortal777 (9111 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman both rounds he has more to work with

#17 Posted by _Black (2301 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman.

#18 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12711 posts) - - Show Bio

Lobotomy FTW

#19 Posted by majestic99 (8915 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman wins both rounds.

m99

#20 Posted by Spartan101 (3514 posts) - - Show Bio

if herc powers are magical based? wouldnt that help him and hurt supes more,plus the lion skin makes herc very very hard to hurt..still think supes should win,but its not stomp imo.

#21 Posted by BigCimmerian (10098 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

Yeah hercules, who constantly loses to Hulk due to lack of durability would beat superman?

Superman stomps!

Hercules has never lost to Hulk

#22 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12360 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

Hercules is basically in the same strength class as Superman but as @CitizenBane already mentioned, Superman has a plethora of abilities that he could use to gain an advantage quickly rather than slug it out.

Superman both rounds.

This.

#23 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13336 posts) - - Show Bio

Where's PowerHerc's "Herc wins"?

#24 Posted by majestic99 (8915 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch:

He's not online now.

m99

#25 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (7165 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

Yeah hercules, who constantly loses to Hulk due to lack of durability would beat superman?

Superman stomps!

Much the same way Thor has lost to Hulk I guess? I know they've tussled a few times, while Herc was an Avenger amongst others, but can you point out all the times Herc has 'constantly' lost to Hulk? I can't think of many myself so I'm genuinely curious (can think of a couple good tussles but that's about it). Hercules was one of the few WWHulk felt truly threatened by and even stated he could lose to.

With the Nemian Lion skin, I'm not so sure about the morals on bout. Definitely gives Herc off the wall durability in this. I think Herc should prove the better fighter too no? Lion of Olympus. Father of the Pankration etc. etc. Morals off, is Supe's heat vision enough to curb the tide? (Cuz morals off is the only time he'd blast Herc full out I believe). I'm honestly not so sure this is as cut and dry with Supes definitely sending Herc to the curb like that.

I think Herc is a better fighter in what should essentially turn into a fist fight with morals on. I am also uncertain whether heat vision, morals off, would decimate Herc wearing the lion skin though am open to being convinced.

#26 Posted by the creator (8546 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman easily wins. Despite postings about holding up the heveans etc, these are all feats that involve some element of mystical means to perform the feat. No one can clearly say how much weight Herc holds up. Thus they cannot be quantified. So in effect they are an interesting point for discussion and that is all. Superman has quantifiable strength feats that are much higher and he routinely performs at a higher level. Superman is also far more durable. Superman has withstood the explosion of '1 million nuclear bombs' and even the colliion of 2 planets. He can easily withstand Herc's blows. The lions skin may protect Herc from piercing attacks but not blunt force trauma, from punches. It also may not protect him from heat or cold. Superman can project heat hotter than the core of the sun.

#27 Posted by jeanroygrant (20442 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian said:

Well if Herc is slightly stronger than Thor, he should be stronger than Superman too or atleast his equal

When has it been stated Hercules is better than Thor, i keep hearing this?

There equals!

#28 Posted by Killemall (18761 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian said:

Hercules has never lost to Hulk

Hercules has lost to hulk in several occasions. Few issues where this has happened are:

  • The Increadible Hulk - Hercules Unleashed 1 (1996) - Hulk almost killed Hercules, who was bloodied and down on the ground later saved by Zeus.
  • The incredible Hulk 280
  • The Defenders 62

As a matter of fact, every time Hulk has fought Hercules, Hulk has had the upper hand. During Incredible Hulk 321 - 322 Hulk has fought on an equal footing against an entire avengers roster that included 9 other heroes apart from Hercules and it still took them 2 issues to KO him.

@Super_SoldierXII: Well i have listed few issues where Hercules lost to Hulk, Hulk always have had an upper hand against Hercules. At least thor has an excuse of not using his speed or other abilities that the hammer provides, Hercules doesnt even have that excuse.

#29 Posted by Saren (27098 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: I don't think Hercules Unleashed is a good example because Herc didn't have his immortality, and it seemed to make a difference in that fight. Herc didn't appear in Incredible Hulk #280, that issue was just Hulk vs the Leader. But it did take Hercules + several other Avengers to beat Hulk in Incredible Hulk #321-322.

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#30 Edited by spiderbuck (2484 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

@CitizenBane said:

.......because Skrull heat vision is totally the same thing.....

Well, Kl'bn was supposed to the Skrull God, not just a simple Skrull. But it's not like Hercules was beating him during their fight.

Exactly.

I see no reason to believe Superman's heat vision is more powerful than that of THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon.

That's WITHOUT the nemean lionskin of the acts as an indestructible armor and shield’s hercules from any injury.

So how exactly would Superman hurt him?? Answer: He can't.

Morals On - Superman receives "The Gift!!" and gets beaten to a pulp.

Morals Off - Hercules beats Superman do death.

#31 Posted by Saren (27098 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck said:

Exactly.

I see no reason to believe Superman's heat vision is more powerful than that of THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon.

That's WITHOUT the nemean lionskin of the acts as an indestructible armor and shield’s hercules from any injury.

So how exactly would Superman hurt him?? Answer: He can't.

Morals On - Superman receives "The Gift!!" and gets beaten to a pulp.

Morals Off - Hercules beats Superman do death.

Superman's heat vision is hotter than the sun. Why do you think Kly'bn's heat vision is more powerful than that? What has he ever done to support that notion? Besides being --*gasp*--"THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon"?

And as far as I know, Kly'bn isn't an actual god. He's an Eternal/Skrull hybrid. He's no more a god than Ikaris and Thena.

Superman wins both rounds.

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#32 Posted by HolySerpent (13358 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman like so many said

#33 Posted by Illuminatus (9578 posts) - - Show Bio

Mr. Kent.

#34 Posted by BigCimmerian (10098 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

@BigCimmerian said:

Well if Herc is slightly stronger than Thor, he should be stronger than Superman too or atleast his equal

When has it been stated Hercules is better than Thor, i keep hearing this?

There equals!

Thor would beat him in a straight fight, but my opinion is that Herc is slightly stronger and better combatant

#35 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8460 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman can heat vision Hercules in the eyes.

Freeze breath his eyes closed.

Freeze breath a chunk of ice around his head that he has to remove to fight.

Blow freeze breath into his mouth if he opens it to breath in the fight. Having your mouth and throat full of ice makes it hard to breath.

Every time Hercules gives Superman room, he gets heat visioned. He never gets to rest, ever.

Superman also has a more consistent history of strength feats, that put him over Hercules in physical power.

He has a longer history of consistent durability feats, that put him over Hercules in physical toughness.

He can do a lot of things with his powers, and not only that but his powers are better. Hercules can only punch, and he doesn't have the history of skill feats to show he can just outfight Superman.

He just gets beat down, plain and simple.

#36 Posted by spiderbuck (2484 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@spiderbuck said:

Exactly.

I see no reason to believe Superman's heat vision is more powerful than that of THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon.

That's WITHOUT the nemean lionskin of the acts as an indestructible armor and shield’s hercules from any injury.

So how exactly would Superman hurt him?? Answer: He can't.

Morals On - Superman receives "The Gift!!" and gets beaten to a pulp.

Morals Off - Hercules beats Superman do death.

Superman's heat vision is hotter than the sun. Why do you think Kly'bn's heat vision is more powerful than that? What has he ever done to support that notion? Besides being --*gasp*--"THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon"?

And as far as I know, Kly'bn isn't an actual god. He's an Eternal/Skrull hybrid. He's no more a god than Ikaris and Thena.

Superman wins both rounds.

Yeah. Just a regular, old everyday, Eternal Skrull.... that was augmented by cosmic energy and magical energies, immortal and virtually indestructible.

And his heat vision is hotter than --*gasp*-- teh SUNzss!!1?? WOwza. If Thor could chill out in the middle of the sun without so much as a scratch, Hercules could definitely do the same, and "hotter than the sun" is just hot enough to maybe get a tan. That's WITHOUT the Nemian Lion skin. With it?? It won't even tickle.

I know you guys love Superman in here, but TS specifically made this thread to make this a slugfest, and that's Herc's territory. He pounds Supes in both scenarios.

#37 Posted by Saren (27098 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck said:

@CitizenBane said:

@spiderbuck said:

Exactly.

I see no reason to believe Superman's heat vision is more powerful than that of THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon.

That's WITHOUT the nemean lionskin of the acts as an indestructible armor and shield’s hercules from any injury.

So how exactly would Superman hurt him?? Answer: He can't.

Morals On - Superman receives "The Gift!!" and gets beaten to a pulp.

Morals Off - Hercules beats Superman do death.

Superman's heat vision is hotter than the sun. Why do you think Kly'bn's heat vision is more powerful than that? What has he ever done to support that notion? Besides being --*gasp*--"THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon"?

And as far as I know, Kly'bn isn't an actual god. He's an Eternal/Skrull hybrid. He's no more a god than Ikaris and Thena.

Superman wins both rounds.

Yeah. Just a regular, old everyday, Eternal Skrull.... that was augmented by cosmic energy and magical energies, immortal and virtually indestructible.

And his heat vision is hotter than --*gasp*-- teh SUNzss!!1?? WOwza. If Thor could chill out in the middle of the sun without so much as a scratch, Hercules could definitely do the same, and "hotter than the sun" is just hot enough to maybe get a tan. That's WITHOUT the Nemian Lion skin. With it?? It won't even tickle.

I know you guys love Superman in here, but TS specifically made this thread to make this a slugfest, and that's Herc's territory. He pounds Supes in both scenarios.

Ooh, cosmic and magical energy? My my, why didn't you say so? Give me a break. Ajak was fighting off Kly'bn's heat vision with his own....eye-beams or whatever they are for quite a while. Do you actually have a single feat for Kly'bn that puts him above Superman?

Herc is not as durable as Thor. I mean, come on........

You keep saying the Nemean lion skin will block Superman's heat vision at it's highest level. Based on what? What has it ever done to make you think that? Wonder Woman has punched nukes and taken blasts from an Imperiex drone that turned Captain Marvel inside out.....and she was burned by Superman's heat vision.

Herc has never even beaten weaker versions of Hulk (unless you want to count beating him with the help of 9 other Avengers), none of whom are stronger than Superman. Superman has an equal degree of strength and then his other abilities. Superman, both rounds.

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#38 Posted by God_Spawn (39552 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman

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#39 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (7165 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Superman wins ... but unlike the current argument circulating, I believe it's simply because Superman has better feats all round.

As none can prove conclusively that heat vision would drop Herc wearing the Lion Skin due, once again, to lack of feats. Based off what the skin is billed as, heat vision should not be enough. Based off feats, it appears Herc is in trouble as it's true, we've never seen any real high end feats of Herc tanking crazy sh!t wearing the Lion skin. Still, I'm not convinced it would entirely faceplant Herc. Nor am I sure Herc would stand up to it. No one can conclusively prove either way.

Fact is, Hercules does not have enough feats and is still an underused character to state he'd win in a fist fight with Superman.

Additionally, I find it hard to believe Herc matches Superman strengthwise. But it be close. Thor towing the Midgard Serpent (big enough to engulf and crush the earth) is a huge strength feat. If Herc does indeed match Thor's strength levels (due to the infamous armwrestle that's circulated across the Vine ad infinitum) then Hercules should have strength levels that can at least contend. OK /rant.

#40 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8460 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII: Better feats all around, I agree with that.

#41 Edited by spiderbuck (2484 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@spiderbuck said:

@CitizenBane said:

@spiderbuck said:

Exactly.

I see no reason to believe Superman's heat vision is more powerful than that of THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon.

That's WITHOUT the nemean lionskin of the acts as an indestructible armor and shield’s hercules from any injury.

So how exactly would Superman hurt him?? Answer: He can't.

Morals On - Superman receives "The Gift!!" and gets beaten to a pulp.

Morals Off - Hercules beats Superman do death.

Superman's heat vision is hotter than the sun. Why do you think Kly'bn's heat vision is more powerful than that? What has he ever done to support that notion? Besides being --*gasp*--"THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon"?

And as far as I know, Kly'bn isn't an actual god. He's an Eternal/Skrull hybrid. He's no more a god than Ikaris and Thena.

Superman wins both rounds.

Yeah. Just a regular, old everyday, Eternal Skrull.... that was augmented by cosmic energy and magical energies, immortal and virtually indestructible.

And his heat vision is hotter than --*gasp*-- teh SUNzss!!1?? WOwza. If Thor could chill out in the middle of the sun without so much as a scratch, Hercules could definitely do the same, and "hotter than the sun" is just hot enough to maybe get a tan. That's WITHOUT the Nemian Lion skin. With it?? It won't even tickle.

I know you guys love Superman in here, but TS specifically made this thread to make this a slugfest, and that's Herc's territory. He pounds Supes in both scenarios.

Ooh, cosmic and magical energy? My my, why didn't you say so? Give me a break. Ajak was fighting off Kly'bn's heat vision with his own....eye-beams or whatever they are for quite a while. Do you actually have a single feat for Kly'bn that puts him above Superman?

Herc is not as durable as Thor. I mean, come on........

You keep saying the Nemean lion skin will block Superman's heat vision at it's highest level. Based on what? What has it ever done to make you think that? Wonder Woman has punched nukes and taken blasts from an Imperiex drone that turned Captain Marvel inside out.....and she was burned by Superman's heat vision.

Herc has never even beaten weaker versions of Hulk (unless you want to count beating him with the help of 9 other Avengers), none of whom are stronger than Superman. Superman has an equal degree of strength and then his other abilities. Superman, both rounds.

Yeah, thanks for making my point for me by the way. You compared Kly'bn to a regular Eternal, but when they fought, Ajak (regular Eternal) fought off Kly'bn's (top dog Skrull god) heat vision for 1.5 seconds before he got PWND by it having his head shattered like an old pumpkin. That same heat vision couldn't even phase Hercules. This feat should be indicative of his ability to stand up to Superman's heat vision.

"Herc is not as durable as Thor. I mean, come on........" LOL, sure buddy. Yet Plus

He's not only just as durable, he's actually the BETTER FIGHTER. Thor gets his butt kicked when fighting Herc H2H. Everyone in here knows it, he's beaten Thor more than not, and he Thor even admitted it. It's time you acknowledge reality here.

Plus you're blatantly ignoring the fact that Herc is wearing a the lion skin imbued with Godly Magic from Zeus himself.

And Wonder Woman got burned by heat vision?? ZOMG. Means nothing, because we are not talking about WW, we are talking about Herc, who has proven ability to tank heat blasts. Also, is she wearing a magical armament that makes her completely impervious to physical damage? Oh yeah, that's right. She's not. She also nearly cut off Superman's head with her tiara.

Superman is not anywhere near the seasoned fighter that Hercules is in H2H combat.

Under these conditions, Hercules STOMPS.

#42 Posted by Saren (27098 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck said:

Yeah, thanks for making my point for me by the way. You compared Kly'bn to a regular Eternal, but when they fought, Ajak (regular Eternal) fought off Kly'bn's (top dog Skrull god) heat vision for 1.5 seconds before he got PWND by it having his head shattered like an old pumpkin. That same heat vision couldn't even phase Hercules. This feat should be indicative of his ability to stand up to Superman's heat vision.

"Herc is not as durable as Thor. I mean, come on........" LOL, sure buddy. Yet Plus

He's not only just as durable, he's actually the BETTER FIGHTER. Thor gets his butt kicked when fighting Herc H2H. Everyone in here knows it, he's beaten Thor more than not, and he Thor even admitted it. It's time you acknowledge reality here.

Plus you're blatantly ignoring the fact that Herc is wearing a the lion skin imbued with Godly Magic from Zeus himself.

And Wonder Woman got burned by heat vision?? ZOMG. Means nothing, because we are not talking about WW, we are talking about Herc, who has proven ability to tank heat blasts. Also, is she wearing a magical armament that makes her completely impervious to physical damage? Oh yeah, that's right. She's not. She also nearly cut off Superman's head with her tiara.

Superman is not anywhere near the seasoned fighter that Hercules is in H2H combat.

Under these conditions, Hercules STOMPS.

What nonsense. Ajak was obviously offering some kind of resistance to Kly'bn's heat vision given that the latter stated that he fought well. It is indicative of absolutely nothing. Prove that Kly'bn's heat vision is the equal of Superman's or anywhere close to it. Prove that Ajak's heat vision is the equal of Superman's or anything close to it. What have they EVER done to support that notion? Nothing. And can you possibly prove that without going "Ooh, Skrull God! Cosmic energy! Magical energy!".

He's not. In any way. As durable as Thor.

Considering Thor is a reckless brawler at best, as his 15 fights with Hulk can attest, outskilling someone like him is....really not that big a deal.

And again, you go with the "Magic! From like, a god!" angle to compensate for the lack of an actual argument. Prove that the Nemean lion skin can block it. By using stuff it has actually done, not "It's indestructible!".

Way to completely miss the point. Wonder Woman also has durability that is at least on par with Herc, if not greater. Prove otherwise. Heat blasts are totally the same as nukes and blasts from Imperiex drones. She did not cut off Superman's head or come close to it. She cut his throat and the wound healed in seconds. Sheesh.

Yeah, Herc brawls 99% of the time, let's not fool ourselves into thinking this will be any different. He tried using wrestling techniques against Hulk and was beaten to a bloody pulp.

Superman still wins both rounds.

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#43 Posted by jashro44 (30287 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sure this has been covered but why wont freeze breath work? Apologies but I am a little lazy right now and don't feel like reading...

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#44 Posted by Saren (27098 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

I'm sure this has been covered but why wont freeze breath work? Apologies but I am a little lazy right now and don't feel like reading...

Because he's like, a god, and the Nemean lion skin is like, indestructible.

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#45 Posted by jashro44 (30287 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@jashro44 said:

I'm sure this has been covered but why wont freeze breath work? Apologies but I am a little lazy right now and don't feel like reading...

Because he's like, a god, and the Nemean lion skin is like, indestructible.

LOL
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#46 Posted by Ganseki (137 posts) - - Show Bio

Hercules is unable to beat superman. Superman has invulnerability, heat vision, super strength, and unarmed combat to defeat him

#47 Posted by Dex_Starr (4797 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@spiderbuck said:

Yeah, thanks for making my point for me by the way. You compared Kly'bn to a regular Eternal, but when they fought, Ajak (regular Eternal) fought off Kly'bn's (top dog Skrull god) heat vision for 1.5 seconds before he got PWND by it having his head shattered like an old pumpkin. That same heat vision couldn't even phase Hercules. This feat should be indicative of his ability to stand up to Superman's heat vision.

"Herc is not as durable as Thor. I mean, come on........" LOL, sure buddy. Yet Plus

He's not only just as durable, he's actually the BETTER FIGHTER. Thor gets his butt kicked when fighting Herc H2H. Everyone in here knows it, he's beaten Thor more than not, and he Thor even admitted it. It's time you acknowledge reality here.

Plus you're blatantly ignoring the fact that Herc is wearing a the lion skin imbued with Godly Magic from Zeus himself.

And Wonder Woman got burned by heat vision?? ZOMG. Means nothing, because we are not talking about WW, we are talking about Herc, who has proven ability to tank heat blasts. Also, is she wearing a magical armament that makes her completely impervious to physical damage? Oh yeah, that's right. She's not. She also nearly cut off Superman's head with her tiara.

Superman is not anywhere near the seasoned fighter that Hercules is in H2H combat.

Under these conditions, Hercules STOMPS.

What nonsense. Ajak was obviously offering some kind of resistance to Kly'bn's heat vision given that the latter stated that he fought well. It is indicative of absolutely nothing. Prove that Kly'bn's heat vision is the equal of Superman's or anywhere close to it. Prove that Ajak's heat vision is the equal of Superman's or anything close to it. What have they EVER done to support that notion? Nothing. And can you possibly prove that without going "Ooh, Skrull God! Cosmic energy! Magical energy!".

He's not. In any way. As durable as Thor.

Considering Thor is a reckless brawler at best, as his 15 fights with Hulk can attest, outskilling someone like him is....really not that big a deal.

And again, you go with the "Magic! From like, a god!" angle to compensate for the lack of an actual argument. Prove that the Nemean lion skin can block it. By using stuff it has actually done, not "It's indestructible!".

Way to completely miss the point. Wonder Woman also has durability that is at least on par with Herc, if not greater. Prove otherwise. Heat blasts are totally the same as nukes and blasts from Imperiex drones. She did not cut off Superman's head or come close to it. She cut his throat and the wound healed in seconds. Sheesh.

Yeah, Herc brawls 99% of the time, let's not fool ourselves into thinking this will be any different. He tried using wrestling techniques against Hulk and was beaten to a bloody pulp.

Superman still wins both rounds.

Herc hasn't done anything to suggest he's even as good as a fighter as Superman either.

#48 Posted by God_Spawn (39552 posts) - - Show Bio

Amadeus Cho has pretty much just said Herc punches things. Not too much skilled involved there and I already debated Superman is a better fighter than Herc too. I'll see if I can scrounge up the thread and bring those points back up.

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#49 Edited by spiderbuck (2484 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: I am not addressing that wall of disingenuous text in it's entirety. You want me to "prove" about 17 different points, all the while not providing any proof for your statements.

For example:

1) Saying Hercules is less durable than Thor. Proove it. Everyone in here knows Herc > Thor without Mjolnir. That's just a fact. Thor admitted it, and it's time you do too.

2) You say WW is more durable than Hercules. Prove it. Imo, that's laughable considering Superman has crushed WW's hand like a child's (there is NO way he would be able to do something like that to Hercules. Just. No. .... meanwhile DC Hercules is ones hotting Superman into buildings. I know what you're going to say next... DC Herc > Marvel Herc. If so, prove it.

3) You say Herc "tried to wrestle with Hulk and got beaten to a pulp". Now... is that reaaaally what happened?? Or was it more like this:

Hulk vs Hercules 1 shot. Herc comes out looking pretty good.

Herc ducks a haymaker from Hulk and gets a single leg take down that sends them careening off the mountianside. (Hercules mastery of Pankraton is referenced* thats 2 skill references so far).

They land with Herc on top andimmediatelytakes the mount posistion working down some monsterous ground and pound techniques.Landing at least 26 un answered blows (if you go by the sound effects),we get a close up of Hulks face and it looks like he has 1 swollen eye and his nose is busted.

The escape of Cronus and his army of giants imprisoned by Zeus interrupts the peaceful resolution, but in the end it is undeniably a draw when the two warriors end their battle!

4) Saying Superman's heavt vision > Kly'bn's. You downplay Kly'bn's heat vision by using the fact that Ajaks' heat vision was even with his... but conveniently ignoring that in the very next panel Kly'bn's hv overpowers that of Ajaks.... and this happens:

5) Marvel says the Nemean Lion skin is indestructible. You say it's not. Prove them wrong.

....I say Herc is so durable he doesn't even need the thing anyway. Case in point:

Takes Kly'bn's best shot....
And walks right through it.

@god_spawn said:

Amadeus Cho has pretty much just said Herc punches things. Not too much skilled involved there and I already debated Superman is a better fighter than Herc too. I'll see if I can scrounge up the thread and bring those points back up.

Must not be a big fight fan if you think there's not much skilled involved in "just punching things." Pugilism is an entire art form based on "just punching things." Muhammed Ali "just punches things" like Picasso "just paints stuff." And frankly, that is exactly the point. Hercules' existence is based on fighting, the art of fighting, and "the gift" of battle. It's his world, and the scenario here is stacked too heavily in his favor.

@Dex_Starr said:

Herc hasn't done anything to suggest he's even as good as a fighter as Superman either.

See asterisk under heading 3 - *Hercules mastery of Pankraton is referenced twice in his fight with Hulk. I know Superman has some pretty good boxing, and has some knowledge or pressure points, but Pankration (MMA) or Wrestling alone have proven to beat boxing 10/10 and 9/10 times respectively in a NHB (no holds barred) fight, and this is just a fact... also the pressure points stuff won't work on Hercules, especially with the Lion Skin, but even without, he's too skilled of a fighter for that to work. Just like the best Wing Chun or Kung Fu guy would never step foot in a case and fight it out, because they would leave on a stretcher. Or rather they have left on stretchers, and that's why people who fight train wrestling, submissions and kickboxing (pankration essentially).

Hercules stomps in these scenarios.

#50 Posted by DrEgonSpengler (619 posts) - - Show Bio

Yet Superman can strike Hercules a hundred times, and also apply pressure points before Herc throws a punch.