Superman vs Hercules

- Superman doesn't have super speed and he cannot fly

- This is Marvel Hercules pre Chaos War, he has skin of Nemean lion

- Morals on round 1 morals off round 2, who wins and why?

Superman.

Superman is still a great deal stronger .

It's not so much strength (Herc should be in that league, at least technically) as it is Superman being able to run Herc down by using multiple abilities at the same time. And in Round 2, he should still see all of Herc's moves coming a mile away thanks to his superhuman perceptions, unless you're classifying that under speed.

Superman.
BB

Well if Herc is slightly stronger than Thor, he should be stronger than Superman too or atleast his equal

How is supes putting down an immortal with strength exceededing his?

Hercules had to hold up the Earth on his shoulders as one of his labors. And then he held up the entire heavens for Atlas.

The last time I checked, supes needed GL and WW's help to drag the Earth.

@Jeronimo said:

How is supes putting down an immortal with strength exceededing his?

Hercules had to hold up the Earth on his shoulders as one of his labors. And then he held up the entire heavens for Atlas.

The last time I checked, supes needed GL and WW's help to drag the Earth.

He had the help of Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter, not Green Lantern.

.......and then he also pulled the Earth on his own with a harness Green Lantern made to cover the planet during Faces of Evil: Starbreaker.

And holding up the heavens? How much do the heavens weigh, exactly? It's unquantifiable, sorta like when Supes and Wondy slowed the Spectre's fall. Spectre's made of eternity.

Hercules only has the option of strength. Superman can slug it out while also pulling out the heat vision and freeze breath, among other things. Hell, in Round 2 he can use the heat vision at full strength to slowly but surely roast Herc from a distance.

Superman.

Hercules is a true badass. No joke:

Plus, Hercules Nemean lion skin, on top of Hercules' own formaidable durability, would shield him from supes heat vision and cold breath:

.......because Skrull heat vision is totally the same thing.....

.......because Skrull heat vision is totally the same thing.....

Hercules is basically in the same strength class as Superman but as @CitizenBane already mentioned, Superman has a plethora of abilities that he could use to gain an advantage quickly rather than slug it out.

Superman both rounds.

@CitizenBane: I'd say the strength plays a factor , Herc. hasn't matched Supes' strength .

Although I agree , the heat vision will factor in his win as well.

Yeah hercules, who constantly loses to Hulk due to lack of durability would beat superman?

Superman stomps!

Superman both rounds he has more to work with

Superman.

Lobotomy FTW

Superman wins both rounds.

m99

if herc powers are magical based? wouldnt that help him and hurt supes more,plus the lion skin makes herc very very hard to hurt..still think supes should win,but its not stomp imo.

@Killemall said:

Yeah hercules, who constantly loses to Hulk due to lack of durability would beat superman?

Superman stomps!

Hercules has never lost to Hulk

@Deranged Midget said:

Hercules is basically in the same strength class as Superman but as @CitizenBane already mentioned, Superman has a plethora of abilities that he could use to gain an advantage quickly rather than slug it out.

Superman both rounds.

This.

Where's PowerHerc's "Herc wins"?

@texasdeathmatch:

He's not online now.

m99

@Killemall said:

Yeah hercules, who constantly loses to Hulk due to lack of durability would beat superman?

Superman stomps!

Much the same way Thor has lost to Hulk I guess? I know they've tussled a few times, while Herc was an Avenger amongst others, but can you point out all the times Herc has 'constantly' lost to Hulk? I can't think of many myself so I'm genuinely curious (can think of a couple good tussles but that's about it). Hercules was one of the few WWHulk felt truly threatened by and even stated he could lose to.

With the Nemian Lion skin, I'm not so sure about the morals on bout. Definitely gives Herc off the wall durability in this. I think Herc should prove the better fighter too no? Lion of Olympus. Father of the Pankration etc. etc. Morals off, is Supe's heat vision enough to curb the tide? (Cuz morals off is the only time he'd blast Herc full out I believe). I'm honestly not so sure this is as cut and dry with Supes definitely sending Herc to the curb like that.

I think Herc is a better fighter in what should essentially turn into a fist fight with morals on. I am also uncertain whether heat vision, morals off, would decimate Herc wearing the lion skin though am open to being convinced.

Superman easily wins. Despite postings about holding up the heveans etc, these are all feats that involve some element of mystical means to perform the feat. No one can clearly say how much weight Herc holds up. Thus they cannot be quantified. So in effect they are an interesting point for discussion and that is all. Superman has quantifiable strength feats that are much higher and he routinely performs at a higher level. Superman is also far more durable. Superman has withstood the explosion of '1 million nuclear bombs' and even the colliion of 2 planets. He can easily withstand Herc's blows. The lions skin may protect Herc from piercing attacks but not blunt force trauma, from punches. It also may not protect him from heat or cold. Superman can project heat hotter than the core of the sun.

@BigCimmerian said:

Well if Herc is slightly stronger than Thor, he should be stronger than Superman too or atleast his equal

When has it been stated Hercules is better than Thor, i keep hearing this?

There equals!

@BigCimmerian said:

Hercules has never lost to Hulk

Hercules has lost to hulk in several occasions. Few issues where this has happened are:

• The Increadible Hulk - Hercules Unleashed 1 (1996) - Hulk almost killed Hercules, who was bloodied and down on the ground later saved by Zeus.
• The incredible Hulk 280
• The Defenders 62

As a matter of fact, every time Hulk has fought Hercules, Hulk has had the upper hand. During Incredible Hulk 321 - 322 Hulk has fought on an equal footing against an entire avengers roster that included 9 other heroes apart from Hercules and it still took them 2 issues to KO him.

@Super_SoldierXII: Well i have listed few issues where Hercules lost to Hulk, Hulk always have had an upper hand against Hercules. At least thor has an excuse of not using his speed or other abilities that the hammer provides, Hercules doesnt even have that excuse.

@Killemall: I don't think Hercules Unleashed is a good example because Herc didn't have his immortality, and it seemed to make a difference in that fight. Herc didn't appear in Incredible Hulk #280, that issue was just Hulk vs the Leader. But it did take Hercules + several other Avengers to beat Hulk in Incredible Hulk #321-322.

@Morpheus_ said:

@CitizenBane said:

.......because Skrull heat vision is totally the same thing.....

Well, Kl'bn was supposed to the Skrull God, not just a simple Skrull. But it's not like Hercules was beating him during their fight.

Exactly.

I see no reason to believe Superman's heat vision is more powerful than that of THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon.

That's WITHOUT the nemean lionskin of the acts as an indestructible armor and shield’s hercules from any injury.

So how exactly would Superman hurt him?? Answer: He can't.

Morals On - Superman receives "The Gift!!" and gets beaten to a pulp.

Morals Off - Hercules beats Superman do death.

@spiderbuck said:

Exactly.

I see no reason to believe Superman's heat vision is more powerful than that of THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon.

That's WITHOUT the nemean lionskin of the acts as an indestructible armor and shield’s hercules from any injury.

So how exactly would Superman hurt him?? Answer: He can't.

Morals On - Superman receives "The Gift!!" and gets beaten to a pulp.

Morals Off - Hercules beats Superman do death.

Superman's heat vision is hotter than the sun. Why do you think Kly'bn's heat vision is more powerful than that? What has he ever done to support that notion? Besides being --*gasp*--"THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon"?

And as far as I know, Kly'bn isn't an actual god. He's an Eternal/Skrull hybrid. He's no more a god than Ikaris and Thena.

Superman wins both rounds.

Superman like so many said

Mr. Kent.

@jeanroygrant said:

@BigCimmerian said:

Well if Herc is slightly stronger than Thor, he should be stronger than Superman too or atleast his equal

When has it been stated Hercules is better than Thor, i keep hearing this?

There equals!

Thor would beat him in a straight fight, but my opinion is that Herc is slightly stronger and better combatant

Superman can heat vision Hercules in the eyes.

Freeze breath his eyes closed.

Freeze breath a chunk of ice around his head that he has to remove to fight.

Blow freeze breath into his mouth if he opens it to breath in the fight. Having your mouth and throat full of ice makes it hard to breath.

Every time Hercules gives Superman room, he gets heat visioned. He never gets to rest, ever.

Superman also has a more consistent history of strength feats, that put him over Hercules in physical power.

He has a longer history of consistent durability feats, that put him over Hercules in physical toughness.

He can do a lot of things with his powers, and not only that but his powers are better. Hercules can only punch, and he doesn't have the history of skill feats to show he can just outfight Superman.

He just gets beat down, plain and simple.

@CitizenBane said:

@spiderbuck said:

Exactly.

I see no reason to believe Superman's heat vision is more powerful than that of THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon.

That's WITHOUT the nemean lionskin of the acts as an indestructible armor and shield’s hercules from any injury.

So how exactly would Superman hurt him?? Answer: He can't.

Morals On - Superman receives "The Gift!!" and gets beaten to a pulp.

Morals Off - Hercules beats Superman do death.

Superman's heat vision is hotter than the sun. Why do you think Kly'bn's heat vision is more powerful than that? What has he ever done to support that notion? Besides being --*gasp*--"THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon"?

And as far as I know, Kly'bn isn't an actual god. He's an Eternal/Skrull hybrid. He's no more a god than Ikaris and Thena.

Superman wins both rounds.

Yeah. Just a regular, old everyday, Eternal Skrull.... that was augmented by cosmic energy and magical energies, immortal and virtually indestructible.

And his heat vision is hotter than --*gasp*-- teh SUNzss!!1?? WOwza. If Thor could chill out in the middle of the sun without so much as a scratch, Hercules could definitely do the same, and "hotter than the sun" is just hot enough to maybe get a tan. That's WITHOUT the Nemian Lion skin. With it?? It won't even tickle.

I know you guys love Superman in here, but TS specifically made this thread to make this a slugfest, and that's Herc's territory. He pounds Supes in both scenarios.

@spiderbuck said:

@CitizenBane said:

@spiderbuck said:

Exactly.

I see no reason to believe Superman's heat vision is more powerful than that of THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon.

That's WITHOUT the nemean lionskin of the acts as an indestructible armor and shield’s hercules from any injury.

So how exactly would Superman hurt him?? Answer: He can't.

Morals On - Superman receives "The Gift!!" and gets beaten to a pulp.

Morals Off - Hercules beats Superman do death.

Superman's heat vision is hotter than the sun. Why do you think Kly'bn's heat vision is more powerful than that? What has he ever done to support that notion? Besides being --*gasp*--"THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon"?

And as far as I know, Kly'bn isn't an actual god. He's an Eternal/Skrull hybrid. He's no more a god than Ikaris and Thena.

Superman wins both rounds.

Yeah. Just a regular, old everyday, Eternal Skrull.... that was augmented by cosmic energy and magical energies, immortal and virtually indestructible.

And his heat vision is hotter than --*gasp*-- teh SUNzss!!1?? WOwza. If Thor could chill out in the middle of the sun without so much as a scratch, Hercules could definitely do the same, and "hotter than the sun" is just hot enough to maybe get a tan. That's WITHOUT the Nemian Lion skin. With it?? It won't even tickle.

I know you guys love Superman in here, but TS specifically made this thread to make this a slugfest, and that's Herc's territory. He pounds Supes in both scenarios.

Ooh, cosmic and magical energy? My my, why didn't you say so? Give me a break. Ajak was fighting off Kly'bn's heat vision with his own....eye-beams or whatever they are for quite a while. Do you actually have a single feat for Kly'bn that puts him above Superman?

Herc is not as durable as Thor. I mean, come on........

You keep saying the Nemean lion skin will block Superman's heat vision at it's highest level. Based on what? What has it ever done to make you think that? Wonder Woman has punched nukes and taken blasts from an Imperiex drone that turned Captain Marvel inside out.....and she was burned by Superman's heat vision.

Herc has never even beaten weaker versions of Hulk (unless you want to count beating him with the help of 9 other Avengers), none of whom are stronger than Superman. Superman has an equal degree of strength and then his other abilities. Superman, both rounds.

Superman

I think Superman wins ... but unlike the current argument circulating, I believe it's simply because Superman has better feats all round.

As none can prove conclusively that heat vision would drop Herc wearing the Lion Skin due, once again, to lack of feats. Based off what the skin is billed as, heat vision should not be enough. Based off feats, it appears Herc is in trouble as it's true, we've never seen any real high end feats of Herc tanking crazy sh!t wearing the Lion skin. Still, I'm not convinced it would entirely faceplant Herc. Nor am I sure Herc would stand up to it. No one can conclusively prove either way.

Fact is, Hercules does not have enough feats and is still an underused character to state he'd win in a fist fight with Superman.

Additionally, I find it hard to believe Herc matches Superman strengthwise. But it be close. Thor towing the Midgard Serpent (big enough to engulf and crush the earth) is a huge strength feat. If Herc does indeed match Thor's strength levels (due to the infamous armwrestle that's circulated across the Vine ad infinitum) then Hercules should have strength levels that can at least contend. OK /rant.

@Super_SoldierXII: Better feats all around, I agree with that.

@CitizenBane said:

@spiderbuck said:

@CitizenBane said:

@spiderbuck said:

Exactly.

I see no reason to believe Superman's heat vision is more powerful than that of THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon.

That's WITHOUT the nemean lionskin of the acts as an indestructible armor and shield’s hercules from any injury.

So how exactly would Superman hurt him?? Answer: He can't.

Morals On - Superman receives "The Gift!!" and gets beaten to a pulp.

Morals Off - Hercules beats Superman do death.

Superman's heat vision is hotter than the sun. Why do you think Kly'bn's heat vision is more powerful than that? What has he ever done to support that notion? Besides being --*gasp*--"THE primary god of the Skrull pantheon"?

And as far as I know, Kly'bn isn't an actual god. He's an Eternal/Skrull hybrid. He's no more a god than Ikaris and Thena.

Superman wins both rounds.

Yeah. Just a regular, old everyday, Eternal Skrull.... that was augmented by cosmic energy and magical energies, immortal and virtually indestructible.

And his heat vision is hotter than --*gasp*-- teh SUNzss!!1?? WOwza. If Thor could chill out in the middle of the sun without so much as a scratch, Hercules could definitely do the same, and "hotter than the sun" is just hot enough to maybe get a tan. That's WITHOUT the Nemian Lion skin. With it?? It won't even tickle.

I know you guys love Superman in here, but TS specifically made this thread to make this a slugfest, and that's Herc's territory. He pounds Supes in both scenarios.

Ooh, cosmic and magical energy? My my, why didn't you say so? Give me a break. Ajak was fighting off Kly'bn's heat vision with his own....eye-beams or whatever they are for quite a while. Do you actually have a single feat for Kly'bn that puts him above Superman?

Herc is not as durable as Thor. I mean, come on........

You keep saying the Nemean lion skin will block Superman's heat vision at it's highest level. Based on what? What has it ever done to make you think that? Wonder Woman has punched nukes and taken blasts from an Imperiex drone that turned Captain Marvel inside out.....and she was burned by Superman's heat vision.

Herc has never even beaten weaker versions of Hulk (unless you want to count beating him with the help of 9 other Avengers), none of whom are stronger than Superman. Superman has an equal degree of strength and then his other abilities. Superman, both rounds.

Yeah, thanks for making my point for me by the way. You compared Kly'bn to a regular Eternal, but when they fought, Ajak (regular Eternal) fought off Kly'bn's (top dog Skrull god) heat vision for 1.5 seconds before he got PWND by it having his head shattered like an old pumpkin. That same heat vision couldn't even phase Hercules. This feat should be indicative of his ability to stand up to Superman's heat vision.

"Herc is not as durable as Thor. I mean, come on........" LOL, sure buddy. Yet Plus

He's not only just as durable, he's actually the BETTER FIGHTER. Thor gets his butt kicked when fighting Herc H2H. Everyone in here knows it, he's beaten Thor more than not, and he Thor even admitted it. It's time you acknowledge reality here.

Plus you're blatantly ignoring the fact that Herc is wearing a the lion skin imbued with Godly Magic from Zeus himself.

And Wonder Woman got burned by heat vision?? ZOMG. Means nothing, because we are not talking about WW, we are talking about Herc, who has proven ability to tank heat blasts. Also, is she wearing a magical armament that makes her completely impervious to physical damage? Oh yeah, that's right. She's not. She also nearly cut off Superman's head with her tiara.

Superman is not anywhere near the seasoned fighter that Hercules is in H2H combat.

Under these conditions, Hercules STOMPS.

@spiderbuck said:

Yeah, thanks for making my point for me by the way. You compared Kly'bn to a regular Eternal, but when they fought, Ajak (regular Eternal) fought off Kly'bn's (top dog Skrull god) heat vision for 1.5 seconds before he got PWND by it having his head shattered like an old pumpkin. That same heat vision couldn't even phase Hercules. This feat should be indicative of his ability to stand up to Superman's heat vision.

"Herc is not as durable as Thor. I mean, come on........" LOL, sure buddy. Yet Plus

He's not only just as durable, he's actually the BETTER FIGHTER. Thor gets his butt kicked when fighting Herc H2H. Everyone in here knows it, he's beaten Thor more than not, and he Thor even admitted it. It's time you acknowledge reality here.

Plus you're blatantly ignoring the fact that Herc is wearing a the lion skin imbued with Godly Magic from Zeus himself.

And Wonder Woman got burned by heat vision?? ZOMG. Means nothing, because we are not talking about WW, we are talking about Herc, who has proven ability to tank heat blasts. Also, is she wearing a magical armament that makes her completely impervious to physical damage? Oh yeah, that's right. She's not. She also nearly cut off Superman's head with her tiara.

Superman is not anywhere near the seasoned fighter that Hercules is in H2H combat.

Under these conditions, Hercules STOMPS.

What nonsense. Ajak was obviously offering some kind of resistance to Kly'bn's heat vision given that the latter stated that he fought well. It is indicative of absolutely nothing. Prove that Kly'bn's heat vision is the equal of Superman's or anywhere close to it. Prove that Ajak's heat vision is the equal of Superman's or anything close to it. What have they EVER done to support that notion? Nothing. And can you possibly prove that without going "Ooh, Skrull God! Cosmic energy! Magical energy!".

He's not. In any way. As durable as Thor.

Considering Thor is a reckless brawler at best, as his 15 fights with Hulk can attest, outskilling someone like him is....really not that big a deal.

And again, you go with the "Magic! From like, a god!" angle to compensate for the lack of an actual argument. Prove that the Nemean lion skin can block it. By using stuff it has actually done, not "It's indestructible!".

Way to completely miss the point. Wonder Woman also has durability that is at least on par with Herc, if not greater. Prove otherwise. Heat blasts are totally the same as nukes and blasts from Imperiex drones. She did not cut off Superman's head or come close to it. She cut his throat and the wound healed in seconds. Sheesh.

Yeah, Herc brawls 99% of the time, let's not fool ourselves into thinking this will be any different. He tried using wrestling techniques against Hulk and was beaten to a bloody pulp.

Superman still wins both rounds.

I'm sure this has been covered but why wont freeze breath work? Apologies but I am a little lazy right now and don't feel like reading...

@jashro44 said:

I'm sure this has been covered but why wont freeze breath work? Apologies but I am a little lazy right now and don't feel like reading...

Because he's like, a god, and the Nemean lion skin is like, indestructible.

@jashro44 said:

I'm sure this has been covered but why wont freeze breath work? Apologies but I am a little lazy right now and don't feel like reading...

Because he's like, a god, and the Nemean lion skin is like, indestructible.

Hercules is unable to beat superman. Superman has invulnerability, heat vision, super strength, and unarmed combat to defeat him

@CitizenBane said:

@spiderbuck said:

Yeah, thanks for making my point for me by the way. You compared Kly'bn to a regular Eternal, but when they fought, Ajak (regular Eternal) fought off Kly'bn's (top dog Skrull god) heat vision for 1.5 seconds before he got PWND by it having his head shattered like an old pumpkin. That same heat vision couldn't even phase Hercules. This feat should be indicative of his ability to stand up to Superman's heat vision.

"Herc is not as durable as Thor. I mean, come on........" LOL, sure buddy. Yet Plus

He's not only just as durable, he's actually the BETTER FIGHTER. Thor gets his butt kicked when fighting Herc H2H. Everyone in here knows it, he's beaten Thor more than not, and he Thor even admitted it. It's time you acknowledge reality here.

Plus you're blatantly ignoring the fact that Herc is wearing a the lion skin imbued with Godly Magic from Zeus himself.

And Wonder Woman got burned by heat vision?? ZOMG. Means nothing, because we are not talking about WW, we are talking about Herc, who has proven ability to tank heat blasts. Also, is she wearing a magical armament that makes her completely impervious to physical damage? Oh yeah, that's right. She's not. She also nearly cut off Superman's head with her tiara.

Superman is not anywhere near the seasoned fighter that Hercules is in H2H combat.

Under these conditions, Hercules STOMPS.

What nonsense. Ajak was obviously offering some kind of resistance to Kly'bn's heat vision given that the latter stated that he fought well. It is indicative of absolutely nothing. Prove that Kly'bn's heat vision is the equal of Superman's or anywhere close to it. Prove that Ajak's heat vision is the equal of Superman's or anything close to it. What have they EVER done to support that notion? Nothing. And can you possibly prove that without going "Ooh, Skrull God! Cosmic energy! Magical energy!".

He's not. In any way. As durable as Thor.

Considering Thor is a reckless brawler at best, as his 15 fights with Hulk can attest, outskilling someone like him is....really not that big a deal.

And again, you go with the "Magic! From like, a god!" angle to compensate for the lack of an actual argument. Prove that the Nemean lion skin can block it. By using stuff it has actually done, not "It's indestructible!".

Way to completely miss the point. Wonder Woman also has durability that is at least on par with Herc, if not greater. Prove otherwise. Heat blasts are totally the same as nukes and blasts from Imperiex drones. She did not cut off Superman's head or come close to it. She cut his throat and the wound healed in seconds. Sheesh.

Yeah, Herc brawls 99% of the time, let's not fool ourselves into thinking this will be any different. He tried using wrestling techniques against Hulk and was beaten to a bloody pulp.

Superman still wins both rounds.

Herc hasn't done anything to suggest he's even as good as a fighter as Superman either.

Amadeus Cho has pretty much just said Herc punches things. Not too much skilled involved there and I already debated Superman is a better fighter than Herc too. I'll see if I can scrounge up the thread and bring those points back up.

@CitizenBane: I am not addressing that wall of disingenuous text in it's entirety. You want me to "prove" about 17 different points, all the while not providing any proof for your statements.

For example:

1) Saying Hercules is less durable than Thor. Proove it. Everyone in here knows Herc > Thor without Mjolnir. That's just a fact. Thor admitted it, and it's time you do too.

2) You say WW is more durable than Hercules. Prove it. Imo, that's laughable considering Superman has crushed WW's hand like a child's (there is NO way he would be able to do something like that to Hercules. Just. No. .... meanwhile DC Hercules is ones hotting Superman into buildings. I know what you're going to say next... DC Herc > Marvel Herc. If so, prove it.

3) You say Herc "tried to wrestle with Hulk and got beaten to a pulp". Now... is that reaaaally what happened?? Or was it more like this:

Hulk vs Hercules 1 shot. Herc comes out looking pretty good.

4) Saying Superman's heavt vision > Kly'bn's. You downplay Kly'bn's heat vision by using the fact that Ajaks' heat vision was even with his... but conveniently ignoring that in the very next panel Kly'bn's hv overpowers that of Ajaks.... and this happens:

5) Marvel says the Nemean Lion skin is indestructible. You say it's not. Prove them wrong.

....I say Herc is so durable he doesn't even need the thing anyway. Case in point:

@god_spawn said:

Amadeus Cho has pretty much just said Herc punches things. Not too much skilled involved there and I already debated Superman is a better fighter than Herc too. I'll see if I can scrounge up the thread and bring those points back up.

Must not be a big fight fan if you think there's not much skilled involved in "just punching things." Pugilism is an entire art form based on "just punching things." Muhammed Ali "just punches things" like Picasso "just paints stuff." And frankly, that is exactly the point. Hercules' existence is based on fighting, the art of fighting, and "the gift" of battle. It's his world, and the scenario here is stacked too heavily in his favor.

@Dex_Starr said:

Herc hasn't done anything to suggest he's even as good as a fighter as Superman either.

See asterisk under heading 3 - *Hercules mastery of Pankraton is referenced twice in his fight with Hulk. I know Superman has some pretty good boxing, and has some knowledge or pressure points, but Pankration (MMA) or Wrestling alone have proven to beat boxing 10/10 and 9/10 times respectively in a NHB (no holds barred) fight, and this is just a fact... also the pressure points stuff won't work on Hercules, especially with the Lion Skin, but even without, he's too skilled of a fighter for that to work. Just like the best Wing Chun or Kung Fu guy would never step foot in a case and fight it out, because they would leave on a stretcher. Or rather they have left on stretchers, and that's why people who fight train wrestling, submissions and kickboxing (pankration essentially).

Hercules stomps in these scenarios.

Yet Superman can strike Hercules a hundred times, and also apply pressure points before Herc throws a punch.