Spectre vs Chaos War Hercules

@rolldestroyer: that move actually overloaded him....

That's false. You're the one who's confused.

You mean you countered it by referencing a feat for an amped version of the Spectre? .....That you did.

Combat feat or not, it shows the power level which Herc had in his possession. Come on now, i don't have to teach you these basic things. If Herc can instantly repair the multiverse in an extremely weakened state (after his fight with the Chaos King)....imagine how powerful he should be at his prime? ....that's multiversal+

Because he chose to. Athena said that if he waits a bit and heals, he could recreate all existence and rule over it.

@rolldestroyer: oh wow, good reply. when i go home and have access to my computer, i will post the entire battle and i will tag both of you.

but now, what else? our whole debate revolves around it. can you think of anything else to do in the meantime? i think i will be home at 6:30 at least. if you found a good battle, be sure to tell us

@rolldestroyer: which he did not. i wonder why though, CIS?

@rolldestroyer: Ok, lets compare then: Most people on this site agree that the Chaos King isn't on COIE Anti Monitor's power level, probably due to him never managing to destroy a single universe while the AM had hundreds under his belt before the event began. CW Herc was boosted by some enhanced version of the powers the Skyfathers wield, and failed to stop the Chaos King. The Spectre on the other hand was boosted by whatever powers mortal sorcerers could pour into him and managed to stop the AM at his most powerful.

It doesn't matter that Herc could rebuild a host of pocket dimension, when all that power wasn't even enough to beat a weaker opponent.

@outside_85 said:

Actually both Chaos King and COIE Anti-Monitor (at full power) are about equal.

@outside_85: and no powerful being actually tried to stop him too..

Don't need you, cause i have the issues at hand. Spectre casually beating a hostless Spectre:

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Don't know what comic you were reading honestly. Coz this one's whole point was Michael assigning a host for the Spectre.

Corrigan-Spectre giving Michael a 3-page fight:

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Be....coz he's a hero!!?? And how many heroes end up choosing to rule over existence when possessing ultimate power? ...Come on now, that's how all stories end up.

@rolldestroyer: you did not post the whole battle. then i will. but on a side note, note that Michael did not use the demiurgic power on both occasions.

@jwwprod: Not even close.

So you speak for everyone here?

More-so, AM and Chaos King are on the same level considering they both basically did the same thing. And it's not like AM destroyed the multiverse in one swoop either.

But seriously, you don't know anything better than referencing an amped version of the Spectre, do you?

And what is this? ..... it was clearly stated that Chaos King destroyed the multiverse, your conclusion is that he destroyed a host of pocket dimensions? LOL since when does the term "multiverse" refer to a host of pocket dimensions?

...Jesus...the lengths you're willing to go to lowball Herc just so you could give your beloved Spectre the win is.....appalling.

I posted the relevant scene where Michael casually beats the Spectre.

@outside_85 said:

Actually it is true.

Both AM and Chaos King destroyed 99% of both the Mravel and DC multiverses (When DC still had an infinite amount of universes in the multiverse).

Bound or unbound Spectre?

....As if that actually matters?

People are trying to hold up arguments for Herc. So it'll determine whether its a stomp or a roflstomp

Chaos War Hercules fixed and saved the marvel multiverse. MULTIVERSE.

Sky-Father Hercules wins.

@rolldestroyer:

More-so, AM and Chaos King are on the same level considering they both basically did the same thing. And it's not like AM destroyed the multiverse in one swoop either.

one absorbed the multiverse, one tried to destroy it without any big gun even showing up to stop it. that was totally different

But seriously, you don't know anything better than referencing an amped version of the Spectre, do you?

please stop twisting my words, i think you need to reread my post again.

I posted the relevant scene where Michael casually beats the Spectre.

one is a real time event, in which corrigan spectre was beaten senseless without Michael even using the demiurgic power or even straining himself, the other one is a fast rebelling of an event that happened long ago, and did not include many scenes. did you not notice that right after the battle, there was a dialogue, the it fast forwarded to the spectre and Michael talking about his new feature to his job, and the spectre looked fine?

You mean like when Eternity was completely helpless against Chaos King? Or like when Death herself fled? Or Herc who was clearly getting overpowered by Chaos King, despite the fact that he managed to restore the multiverse in an extremely weakened state afterwards.....Yeah, i don't see a reason why peak AM would be any more powerful than the Chaos King at his peak.

Dude, that comment wasn't directed at you. Neither did the previous one. So im not sure why are you replying to it.

Provide proof that Michael was using his "Demiurgic power" against the hostless Spectre, and not Corrigan-Spectre.....which you don't have.

Look, you can interpret that scene however you want, it's pretty clear if you ask me. But that aside....there are more examples where this came from, i just don't have the time to get into it right now.

@rolldestroyer: okay, he did. but still unbound spectre wins, because when he was corrigan spectre, he fought the AM. that should be enough. and if he was unbound, then he would not need to be amped because he could just take the magic for himself for then he will not need the magicians, and he could take more too. even though taking magic and letting others feed you magic is kind of the same thing here, still, he then could do it by himself, which shows potential. and if chaos war herc is magical, unbound spectre can just take his power too.

Provide proof that Michael was using his "Demiurgic power" against the hostless Spectre, and not Corrigan-Spectre.....which you don't have.

why do i? i never said he used his demiurgic power (either your reading skills really need improvement, or your to stressed from work, which is understandable) i said, and will say again, he did not use his unique power both times, just his usual divine powers that are not given by god. and the difference between the two fights is that one is a real time event, the other one is a fast rebelling of an event that happened long ago, and did not include many scenes. did you not notice that right after the battle, there was a dialogue, the it fast forwarded to the spectre and Michael talking about his new feature to his job

CW Hercules wins

Chaos wars Hercules, because better muscles.

Hercules gets my vote, much as it pains me to admit. Spectre jobs too much.

Spectre wins

Spectre stomps he has proven to be above multiversal threats like Zero Hour Parralax (was destroying and re-creating the universe over and over costantly. Bear in mind that lthought this was only 1 universe it was the merged universe that was formed after the crisis to re-create and destroy this multiple times over shows multiversal power) and COIE Anti-Monitor (this guy managed to destoy all the DC multiverse but 4 universes which where only saved via plot by the Monitor so yeah hes easily multiversal) as well as going toe to toe with Michael Demirgos for 4-5 pages or so I see no way that CW Herc is going to be able to beat him.

Go on somebody ask me for scans iv been dying to shown my Spectre feats ;)

You forgot to mention that two of the universes AM devoured had their own Green Lantern Corps, meaning two central batteries, and we both know the combined energies of such powers with some left overs turned Hal and arguably Kyle into a multiversal powerhouse. Not to mention AM was already a multiversal threat even before he started to eat all those universes as it is evident from his stalemate with the original Monitor, who was as powerful as the all the positive matter universes. Add those the energies of the remaining heroes of the multiverse and yet Spectre, even before just 8 magical beings gave them their power and only Thunderbolt and Fate could be seen as universal level. And yet Spectre still made AM scream ''No'' and made him urgently call Krona for him to carry on the experiment. And I humbly think that Spectre did not the amp those magicians gave. None of them are powerful as Spectre. Hell Tunderbolt,Fate, Zatanna and Sargon alone could not take Red Tornado who was amped by AM and they hed to combine their powers to take him out. I believe giving him the amp was a plot device since AM absorbed the powers of the heroes and Spectre should do something similar. You also forgot him depowering Mr Mxyzptlk. That should give people enough clue since Mxy can access the Hypertime and wreck the entire creation for lulz if he wants.

@sithlantern93: yeah can you show me him depwering Mxy. The closest iv seen to that was in DoV Mxy was weakend by the destruction of magic.

Also you still haven't asked me for scans ;)

Hercules.

CW Hercules wins he is above multiversal

@eisenfauste: @usernameunderconstruction: the Spectre beats multiversal + enemies for a living CW Hercules hasn't got anything on the guy who proved to be above a multiversal +++ being (COIE Anti-monitor) and was defiantly above a guy who proved to be endlessly re-creating and destroying a universe (ZH Parrlax) also fighting Michael for 3 pages and making the archangle regard him as a formidable opponent.

1.well i see him jobbing more than winning

2.and spectre didn't beat COIE anti monitor.He went into coma after fighting to COIE Anti-monitor well being in coma doesn't count as a victory

3.well defeating ZH parallax prove spectre to be universal+ not multiversal

4.that fight with with michael can you show it?

@usernameunderconstruction: give me 1 hour and I will have proof of the presence stating that Spectre had more power than the Anti-monitor but he screwed up, the fight between Spectre and Hal (both of them) and proof to show that ZH Parralax was multiversal, and the entire fight with Michael as well as more... That good enough? ;)

@darkseid1006: alright then

So these are the scans first ill start with the Spectre vs Michael Demirgos at the gates of heaven...

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Spectre confronts Michael and goes toe to toe with him for 3 pages before being beaten. In fact he did so well that even Michael (the 3rd most powerful being in DC and just under his brother Lucifer in power) called him a formidable opponent this shows power on a level far above that of multiversal power as Michael is so far above CW Herc he could snuff him with his pinkey.

Now for proof of my claim for Hal Jordan when possesed by Parralax in zero hour was multiversal level...

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So i may have got this a bit wrong but after re-reading i still stand by my comment about ZH Parralax being a multiversal threat. In this scans Hal erases the hero's out of existence and goes on to erase the entire universe. After this he starts re-creating all that he erased (if a being can erase a entire universe and then straight after start re-creating another he has power beyond universal) but with a difference this isnt just a simple destroy universe and then re-make this is destroy it all and then build it back in his image. He was going to build this new universe exactly how he wished erasing multiple time lines and every bad thing that had ever happened like the destruction of Coast City he could create this new universe exactly how he wished.

So yeah Parralax was multiversal (also at the time in DC this was the universe formed at the end of COIE and was actually made up off 4 universes some bits of some had been erased and others changed thats just how it had happened)

Now for Spectre fighting this Parralax

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This is commonly used as a feat for Parralax beating the Spectre but when you actually read through and look into it you realise that actually all Hal did was hit the Spectre out the fight for 3 pages too which he then came back in with no noticeable signs off weakness or injury. The same cant be said for Jordan as he used all his energy trying to get rid of Spectre and it wasn't enough.

Now for another time where Spectre defeated Parralax...

And...

Now that Parralax is covered we'll move onto the famous Anti-Monitor vs Spectre fight
Now im sure youve read COIE and seen the fight and know that afterwards Spectre was left comatosed and AM was fine but here is what the presence himself had to say about this...

And now heres some proof of my claim to Anti-Monitor being Multiversal +++ level

The Anti-Monitor before Crisis on Infinite Earths was multiversal as he was the Monitor's exact equal in power and they where both had all the power of their respective universes/multiverses


And now for the feat of de-powering Mr Mxy...
So first this is what Mxy is capable off........ props to @sithlantern93 for the Mxy scans below :)

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He actually brought the toon force into the whole world and everyone and everything on it...
there was also a time where i actually think Mxy either whipped out the multiverse or universe im not sure but Sith may know?

And the grim aftermath off Mxy after Spectre depowered him... :/

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Mxy was so weak he was essentially crippled by a simple spell of location.

So yeah Spectre fighting Michael for 3 pages, beating ZH Parralax, proving to be capable of beating anti-monitor and depowering Mxy makes him leauges above CW Herc

@darkseid1006

@darkseid1006: really excellent points but i to have to mention something in contradiction
1.first zero hour parallax every feat he showed that he has full power in that universe so he is universal NOT MULTIVERSAL
2.as for COIE Anti-monitor spectre was defeated by him so, presence saying that spectre could potentially beat AM must be a hyperbole to protect his reputation as the right hand of god
3.you sure that depowering mxy wasn't a PIS or any kind of plot device.well i first need mxy's feat and power to decide anything
4.battling michael.well thats the best feat of spectre but michael himself is only multiversal+ he becomes megaversal when joining his force with lucifer and he too defeated spectre and saying that spectre was a formidable opponent proves spectre to be multiversal at max
5.after viewing spectre feats i can say that this would be a close fight but i still stand with CW hercules no way spectre is leagues above CW hercules its a close fight in which hercules might be victor in the end

1. No to be able to erase a universe and then have the power to re-create another one right after is actually universal + but i missed out some feats

He would have created multiple universes and restored much of what existed before the crisis... remember that whole multiverse that the Anti-Monitor decimated? yeah he would have bought a large portion of that back... definitely a multiversal being so Spectre beating him puts him at multiversal + himself.

2. No the presence stated that he had more power than him "power omnipotent" where his exact words so actually what it was was a way to prove that Spectre was in fact more powerful than AM (who as i showed was multiversal before he arrived in the + matter universe. This proves Spectre has more power than a being who decimated the DC multiverse and would have completely whipped it out easily if not for the intellect of the Monitor) and its the writers way of keeping the Spectre's reputation up despite the fact they deliberately made him lose for the sake of plot. Basically this is the writers proving that if the story hadn't demanded him to lose he would have in fact won. If the writers decide that Spectre > Anti-Monitor then Spectre is above the Anti-Monitor it is clearly their intention to show this hence the reason they put it in the comic.
If Spectre is above a guy who could have easily whipped the DC verse out of existence than he is Multiversal +++ (easily above CW Herc)

3. No it was a pretty solid win there was actually no PIS about it and i cant prove this myself but ask any Spectre fan/expert and they will agree.
Well after some digging i came up with a feat for the power of Mxy

the multiverse itself is his toy. Everything there was,is,and will be is his to control so yeah he has true power.

4.What??????????????????????? THAT IS THE MOST RIDICULOUS THING I HAVE EVER HEARED. MICHAEL THE ARCH ANGEL THE MOST POWERFUL BEING UNDER GODS CONTROL??? ONLY UNIVERSAL +...

Of all of God's servants he is the most mighty... and when it says God's servants it does not just mean heaven beings and angels it means all beings (par Lucifer i think) even Mxy,Anti-Monitor,Parralax, and all the rest.
Also the guy that is power with no shore. that means endless power so hes above all others (par his brother and the presence)

And if you question the credibility of this statement it was made by non other than the presence himself.

5. Sticking by Herc after seeing these is madness and if you want more feats on wither Lucifer or Michael just ask

@darkseid1006:
1.okay so ZH is multiversal(you should have posted the feats before) beating him put spectre at multiversal+
2.so you are saying spectre losing to AM was PIS?
3.so spectre is multiversal++ by this feat
4.i think there is a mis understanding read my comments i said michael himself is only MULTIVERSAL++ and he defeated spectre so spectre is multiversal+
5.do you know that CW Hercules recreated the 99% of Marvel multiverse when he was just at fraction of his powers

@usernameunderconstruction: Michael himself is the most powerful being in creation so now he is not Multiversal ++ he is far above that. The anti-monitor threatened the whole of DC putting him above the levels you claim Michael to be which is clearly not the case. Michael is Living Tribunal level so he is above everything in Marvel and DC but the omnipotents.

Spectre has beaten a being that can destoy the multiverse with effortless ease and can actually treat the whole thing like a toy (Mxy) already putting him above CW Herc. He has also showed to be more powerful than another guy who would have erased the whole of the multiverse with ease if not for plot. Again putting him above Herc (and yes I am saying that AM beating Spectre was PIS as the writers confirmed Spectre was more powerful yet for some reason he still failed but conviniantly set him back enough to let the DC A-members to win... Seems like PIS to me)

Making a guy who would have restored most of what had come before the AM decimated DC lose all his power trying to kill him is also a huge feat. Humm re-creating most of the multiverse after erasing it himself? Sounds similar to Herc doesn't it?

I am aware of that yes but actually taking attacks for 3 pages from a LT level being means he can take everything Herc has got easily. Beating a opponent who uses te whole multiverse as a toy and can change or destoy it how he likes when he likes means he can stomp Herc. Forcing a being who could have re-created the multiverse from nothing to expend all his energy in failing to put down the Spectre means that Herc too would use up all his power.

lucifer actually stomped spectre(i re-read the scan)
but i agree to you on this one spectre is better than CW herc so he wins but not a stomp

@usernameunderconstruction: It was Michael not Lucifer and although he was owned he competed with him for 3 pages and Michael admitted he was a very tough opponent so he was not stomped. Ok I still agree that CW Herc has nothing on Spectre but I managed to sway your opinion so I say we can both drop this now as you seem fine and I'm good with this so yup :)

okay cheers

@lol: lol

CWH.

Spectre got hit in the head with a planet and got knocked out lol.