@time: @koays its true bendis doesnt care for emma and she is becoming in comic limbo because scott's women cant live without im is so lame. I blame marvel for not taking chances because change can be bad and ruin a character. I cant see scott and adult/dead jean getting a divorce because it would ruin both characters. Also jean is i the white hot room and is so powerful, marvel thinks thats what would make jean fans happy. That she is out there as the main phoenix host fixing the universe and not getting an credit. Morrison was thinking that the white hot room was were angels give the phonix work to do and think of it as a place just below heaven. There are other people dress in phoenix outfit(kinda like a version of green lantern corps crossed with the angels of heaven

@hopesummersforthefuture: I thought I said I wasn't coming back to this stupid topic.....


Anyway, I think your completely wrong....

Firstly, no body thinks that the women who are with Cyclops can't live without him. That line of thinking has no evidence or proof. Too many Jean Grey fans blame Scott/Emma/Whedon/Marvel for the fact that the X-Men had success without her.THE REALITY IS, Morrison killed her AND Magneto in order to change up the status quo of X-Men which prior to his run was getting disgustingly stale. And we as fans of her may not like how it happened but IT DID....and at the end of the day despite his mistreatment of the characters, the books following Morrison's run are arguably the best and most numerous in the X-Men franchise.

2nd- Emma Frost is not in limbo because she can't live without Scott. She's in limbo because Bendis writes and manages 5-6 books and the X-Men titles he writes seem to be suffering for it. Here's a question: before this story arc how often did Cyclops get more then one scene Uncanny? How often did Magik? Dazzler? The characters that have benefited most from this have been the kids. It's not some crazy conspiracy, Bendis just takes forever to accomplish things and because of that Magik, Dazzler, Magneto AND Emma have all been in the background with months between plotlines. So lets stop acting like there is anything behind Emma's background status other then Bendis sucking at writing.

Finally. Jean is dead and as a fan It sucks. And if you haven't liked anything about the comics since she died I can understand your reasoning. But I have. Decemation, Messiah Complex, San Fran, Utopia and Second Coming make up my favorite period of the X-Men and all of it is only possible because Jean wasn't around. If she, and for that matter Xavier, were around at that time then the X-Men wouldn't have looked as vulnerable as they did, and that made the stories better.

Now that that chapter is over I'll be the first to say that it's time for Jean to come back. I want Jean Grey, (not Teen Jean, Not Hope, Not Maddie, Not the Phoenix,) back. I wan't to see her examine the state of the X-Men, I want to see where she fits in the world and I want to see old plotlines involving her resolved. I don't want her back as some super powered Mary Stu or some symbol for mutants.... she doesn't even need telepathy. I want the character to comeback....but you guys are all insane if you think that the X-Men didn't get better after she died, or that she stayed dead for any other reason then how silly it would look to bring her back full time after she was killed off in such a big way.

@koays: i still believe that the women in scott life cant live without him ie maddie,phoenix posing as jean grey and even jean grey herself. Marvel doesn't like change and if jean was alive her good girl image would be destroyed. Emma o the other hand doesnt have a good girl image and she is in the background because bendis is pushing the new kids in UXM.

Does anyone remember in avx consequences when kitty visit emma in jail and kitty blamed emma for dragging all the others down and emma was like oh please. At least jean never turned cyclops into a borderline villain. Bendis thinks emma and scott brought the worst out of each other and isnt a fan of them. hes going to be the next morrison, mark my words.

:)

Name one villainous thing Scott's done because of Emma. He's been a prick sure, and he's currently an outcast but the book where he starts to actually do villainous things hasn't come out yet. All Emma does is point out the other side of the coin for mutants not in the Xavier camp just like Magneto, just like Wolverine and Gambit at one point.

And let me remind you that Uncanny X-Men draws ALOT of similarities to the first X-Factor. The series where Jean came "back to life" and the big plan that she, Scott and the other three original X-Men had was to publicly slam mutants and pretend to be mutant hunting bad guys. The X-Men even attacked them for it. So yea...no point is being made here.

Your not making any sense with the whole "Scott's women can't live without him" thing: So his girlfriends die....and that means they can't live without him? Then Wolverine, Batman and Spiderman's women must be like a thousand times worst. Jean didn't die to improve Scott's character....neither did Phoenix. Scott AND Jean benefited when Maddie died though....they became an official couple, Jean adopted Cable and absorbed Maddie's memories so it became like they were the same person. I'm certain Maddie fans aren't happy about that.

Idk what Bendis is going to do, but lets not pretend like Emma is evil, Jean is good and Cyclops is only capable of agreeing with whatever his girlfriends tell him. These are all character that are more complex then that

nice also marvel in the 80's made comicbooks more soap opera like and everyone loves a love triangle like scott/jean/wolverine was one of the top one in marvel/x-men history.

Also nice comparison of UXM as a modern day Original X-factor. Didnt scott make danger mark a guys face with a big X in avx consequences? Also magik telling scott you keep using the word brother and brotherhood keeps coming to mind. Also now cyclops is inverted so who knows if he can shake it off, i hope he does because xavier trained him to wore of mind control

And finally, you know you love this topic(and arguing with me), thats why you keep coming back, lol.

@hexthis said:

I'm answering to the underlined part.

I think because in the Marvel nobody had believed in the potential of Jean, because they saw Jean only like a boring girl next door and that kind of character was an obstacle for their project of editorial renewal. Morrison himself confirmed that in the following interviews.

Morrison (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=2707): «Emma does everything Scott wishes Jean would do. Claremont gave me the key when he said Jean is actually much kinkier than Emma, but not as demonstrative. A repressed guy like Scott needs to be brought out of his shell by an extravert. Jean is sensitive and tends to nurse Scott in ways that don't allow him to grow.»

Morrison (http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/869889.html?thread=24810241)«The way I saw it was that Jean and Scott had become remote. For me, the great emotional moment for Scott and Jean was when they ran out to die together on the moon during the Phoenix Saga. After Jean died, Scott ended up with a lot of other women. Scott was very attractive to women even though he didn't know it and I wanted to play around with that. Since he was becoming emotionally remote from Jean, because she was becoming more and more godlike, it just seemed he would naturally fall into the arms of someone more emotionally connected, which Emma actually was. Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else.»

In my opinion that speeches demonstrate only a very superficial knowledge of a character, who in the years was enriched to numerous different sides that made her a complex woman extremely versatile in a perspective of creative. In the first issues (that ones wrote by Lee and Kirby), she was presented like a good and polite girl of a good family, but that girl was able to choose the most introverted, full of complexes, sulky of all X-Men: Scott Summers. Instead Angel (rich and fascinating), Beast (ingenious and quick-witted), Iceman (cheerful and joker) or Ted Roberts (the champion of athletic of her highschool), she was able to choose the boy destined to become the Xavier's dream incarnate. She choose the power, the devoutness and that denote a nature resolute and already totally devoted to the Xavier's dream. So devoted that when the Jean's parents withdrew her from the Xavier Institute (X-Men 24 - 1965), she burst in tears and years after she confessed at Onslaught her choice of not to have social life besides the X-Men (X-Men 53 - 1996). A woman only apparently good, because she's able to act with cold, ruthless, calculated violence; like Sabretooth was able to experience personally in X-Men 28 (1994). A woman able to criticize harsly Xavier himself, if she thinks Xavier is making a mistake; always in X-Men 28. Moreover she is a passionate woman, perfectly able to express her sensuality with her husband; how we can see in Uncanny X-Men 325 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/xmen325-1.jpghttp://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/73958/3891152-xmen325-3.jpg Obviously it was the Comic Code Authority age and then it was impossible draw scenes like this: http://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/emma-frost.jpg but the sensuality of Jean was real and perfectly expressed.

In short I think she had the full potential to evolve and accompany Scott in his process of renovation and in my opinion the writers could well write all the stories of the last ten years, leaving Jean in her role of Scott's wife. But seem to me that the Marvel saw only an obstacle to remove and its writers did the same reasoning made for Xavier after "Avenger versus X-Men": «We have no plans to resurrect him. He is gone, and there's no potential of Professor X stepping into what looks to be a leadership vacuum in the X-Men»; http://www.newsarama.com/10151-bendis-more-talk-avx-s-death-of-biblical-proportions.html. Also the story "Phoenix endsong" seems to me almost a polite way to say: «Jean has definitively erased by the Marvel Universe, just like Gwen Stacy and you will not read other stories whit her.»

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thing Morrison and the following writer thought that Emma was a character able to substitute Jean and they working very hard and very well on the relationship between Emma and Scott. But Emma isn't Jean and after ten year on which she was in the centre of the main x-stories, Emma was able to make her crowd of fans with very good reason, but she wasn't able to substitute Jean in the heart of the most fans, as confirmed the following poll (http://marvel.com/news/comics/21418/the_50_greatest_x-men_of_all-time_pt_5) made by the Marvel in the 2013. A poll we can see how Jean is nineth, in spite of her 10 years of absence from the Marvel Universe and Emma is sixteenth. In the same way All New X-Men is the best sell x-titles; I don't think it sell well because the stories are exiting.

I think that was a wrong renovation strategy, because in this way Marvel wasted ten years (13 with the Morrison's run) on which the writers could develop also Scott than Jean. Instead now they have to reintroduce Jean in the Marvel Universe and redefine her, so that she isn't longer the good boring girl next door that she was in the late nineties, with the risk that the fans don't understand an evolution of the character too radical and too quick.

Now Bendis have finally take the decision to explore that dark side (http://marvel.com/news/comics/19563/through_the_eyes_of_the_x-men_marvel_girl): «We know that Jean is a sweetheart, and we also know that Jean has an incredible edge to her. How will that edge manifest itself, knowing everything that she knows about the destiny of her life?

[…]

Most of us that have read a Jean Grey story know that her dark side is a real thing, and seeing her pushed to limits like this will be interesting for people to see. Will she hold it together? Does she want to hold it together?», but I don't want judge his work because it is too early.

Oh my God, I have yet answer to @hopesummersforthefuture, @drizzle1030 and @koyas!

I will never cease.

@koays: I'm sorry what is Matt Fraction and Kieron Gillian excuse for the way they handle Emma character. She became nothing more than a sex toy and just lived in Cyclops shadow. To make matters worse, she follow in the same footsteps as Jean, Emma had the same kind of development as Jean.

Emma may of spice things up when she join the X-Men and she was written well in the early to mid 2000's. How do you explain late 2000's. The last 7 years, She has been one of the worst characters in the X-Men. Which is kind of strange, considering she been in the spotlight more than any other X-lady, over the last 14 years.

The last 5 years has been one of the worst periods for X-Men comics.

While I don't think the woman can't live without Cyclops. Marvel are obsessed with putting Scott with a woman. Every woman he been with, have suffered cause of him. Marvel care more about him, than them.

Uncanny X-Men is still mainly about him. The other characters may have there moments, but Cyclops still the focus.

Emma has only had one issue of Uncanny X-Men where she had major role in the comic.

If Emma was to leave Uncanny X-Men and join another X-Men team, do you think she would be more focus on?

Lol i give up.

Trust me I hate this topic (your pretty cool though) and if I could i'd stop the Jean/Scott/Emma debate permanently because its stupid

Fraction. I heard about this Matt fraction which he ruin some characters as well. Let alone Magneto kneeing Cyclops LOL. OMG, I thought that was out of character. Fraction seems to be Cyclops's fanboy lol. I'm glad this stood in the past.

Sigh...as soon as i posted that i give up. ok fine.

1. - Prove it. Emma Frost wore more clothes then she did in Morrison's run, had more interactions aside from Cyclops then she did during Whedon's run and had more note worthy character moments under Fraction then Cyclops did. You can show me a picture of her in bed with Cyclops, or point out how the book has glam shots of all the characters but you can't show ACTUAL PROOF of Emma being handled poorly or being a "sex toy". And if you did you'd be ignoring every other instance where the character was being handled better then most of the X-Men with book being as crowded as it was.

2. - What has she done that's bad? Name something she did on panel that's actually worthy of being called the worst character in the last 7 years.

3.- ....Ok your probably right about that but it's a tie with the late 90s

4.- I don't think it's an obsession. When Jean died and Claremont made Maddie Pryor immediately afterwards that was weird. But when Jean came back they were the fan preferred couple even though he was married and had a kid. When Jean died and he got with Emma it was because of some plan Morrison had that we will never know about and Marvel had to roll with it. Don't get me wrong, theres and argument that can be made that without a woman by his side (especially with the tone of the 90's) Scott would've looked weak for alot of his run as a character. He's a character that rubs people the wrong way do to his "all business" attitude and it needs to appear as though someone can see past that. But as we are currently seeing he has evolved to the point that he doesn't need that anymore and can exist as "Cyclops" instead of "Cyclops and..."

5- It's his book sure no question. But lets not pretend he wasn't barely present in it for a large part of the year before now. We haven't heard him speak or be spoken to in a while and that's why we don't know how he feels about things or what the revolution is or will be. You can check the issues, he only really talks during fights or when confronting Shield.

6- How many has Magik had? Magneto? It's not just a Emma problem...its a writer can't handle characters problem.

7.- Yes. But i wouldn't want her to leave just yet. It would hurt the book to lose another leader. And Emma is similar enough to Cyclops; current way of thinking that she'd basically end up on a list with Domino, Warpath, and the New X-Men for characters who should be siding with Cyclops.

After this phase is over, I would love to see Emma in a book interacting with other X-Men (preferably Storm's team). But this is a big deal and I want it to play out.

@koays: It's not stupid. Jean and Emma fans don't like how there ladies been treated. Why Cyclops takes all the glory.

scott summers is a jerk and here is why he would let his wife die which she is dead

poor havoks face is like two face someone fix it fast

@time: It is stupid because Cyclops JUST got popular. And Jean Grey and Emma Frost are both infamous in their own right.

Outside of comicbook fans no one cares about Cyclops. But Jean Grey/Phoenix is something that people think right after Wolverine when they here X-Men.

There's no reason to be insecure about it because all three characters have long histories and plenty of awesome moments. I'm a fan of Cyke & Jean and their entire batch of uber mutant kids, I disliked Jean's death immensely but I'm happy that Scott didn't get lost in the shuffle afterwards....which he could've since he was barely leader when she died and all of the fans hated him for cheating. I'm not gonna hold grudges for Jean because he didn't fade into obscurity...I'm gonna celebrate him getting as many loyal fans as Wolverine in some circles.

If i held any grudges it would be toward the 90's writers for being so poor in their handling of Scott and Jean so that a decade of readers consider them both boring.

@hopesummersforthefuture said:

scott summers is a jerk and here is why he would let his wife die which she is dead

poor havoks face is like two face someone fix it fast

He's inverted. It doesn't count. Otherwise you may as well put everyone's Phoenix pics up too.

@koays said:

@hopesummersforthefuture said:

scott summers is a jerk and here is why he would let his wife die which she is dead

poor havoks face is like two face someone fix it fast

He's inverted. It doesn't count. Otherwise you may as well put everyone's Phoenix pics up too.

but before he was inverted emma told him from BotA that he loves himself more than anything. Also cyclops fan says he loves his precious mutant race more than anything.

as of emma being a sex toy

there is also the one in fractions run where scott was making a baby crib for hope and emma walks in the room naked. i cant find the picture for that one maybe ill take one. I have the whole matt fraction run

@hopesummersforthefuture said:

but before he was inverted emma told him from BotA that he loves himself more than anything. Also cyclops fan says he loves his precious mutant race more than anything.

as of emma being a sex toy

there is also the one in fractions run where scott was making a baby crib for hope and emma walks in the room naked. i cant find the picture for that one maybe ill take one. I have the whole matt fraction run

Yup...Emma Frost was sexualized in a scene featuring her boyfriend.

Now tell me does that moment take away from her:

-Helping Colossus to get through his mourning of Kitty in a bar fight? (which Fraction wrote)

-Defeating the Skrulls by over powering and taking control of their entire hivemind...which was developed to handle more powerful psychics then her. (which Fraction also wrote)

- Infiltrating Norman Osborne's Cabal, turning Namor and Cloak & Dagger to her side and finishing up by sealing the void in her body (because Fraction wrote that too)

- How about the time she confronted, detained, and mind wiped Sebastion Shaw INSTEAD of killing him ...showing the world how much she's grown as a character? (shocker Fraction wrote that too)


If it does you guys win....but it doesn't so you dont ;)

@koays: Anyways dont you think this summer is going to be crazy with all the secret wars stuff. I dont know what to get, its going to be confusing

Time wrote a whole lot of words just to state the simple truth:

Jean and Emma are Cyclops' beards. The reassurance of his manliness to the guys that identify with his lack of self-esteem.

When Marvel wants him to have a new beard, the older one is killed off because Cyclops' women, in the eyes of the misogynists that make the comics, not only can't but shouldn't exist other than to be Cyclops girlfriend. The only reason dudes like Fraction gave Emma any attention at all was because they liked the idea of a woman whose entire existence was based around serving Cyclops' needs. It's the same with Bendis. He doesn't like one beard (Emma) so he pushes her to the background (her death is imminent) and introduces the next one (Tempus. Plus Maria Hill, who appears in the Cyclops book ALOT) and the alternate reality teenage Jean Grey will be the beard for Teen Cyclops, making sure everybody knows that Cyclops most definitely can get a lot of girls.

It's hilarious because it's so transparent and obvious.

Lmao.....yea it real is transparent and obvious

lol Koays, good attempt, but trying to talk sense into raging fangirls like Phoenix Egg & time is pointless.

All their posts boil down to is : "waah waah Cyclops sucks because he was banging Jean Grey and Emma Frost and Jean died so he could bang Emma Waah waah waah"

@phoenixegg@time

mean but its true scott girl's cant leave without him. Its a fact. Just like maddie(died Twice), phoenix posing as jean grey(died twice) and jean grey herself(died twice). Also lee and colleen are in comicbook limbo. So there.

@avenger85: Lmao....I'm done. The irrational anger is a bit much and I like all the characters

And I rest my case. So you've again ignored what Koays has been trying to explain you for the last 2 pages. ROFL

your done because i won.....
(emma stole jean's life but teen jean will take it back)

:)

@squares:

At least on comics, they suposed to be friends now. And maybe with their friendship it could end Emma vs Jean.

fixed lol

lol cool ill keep it :D

on bendis tumblr he said look out cyclops since emma and teen jean are friends. I think it would be emma and jean vs scott, lol.

Facts is facts. It's an actual mandate that the X-Women have to die after Cyclops is done with them. Fact.

Why are such spoiled fanboys worried about what other fans think anyway? Doesn't make any sense, tbh.

Well, us fanboys have always been trying to explain you fangirls that your opinions are not facts. That, and you fangirls' rage posts like the one I have quoted happen to be very entertaining.

Proof : Cyke is done with Emma and she's still breathing. Frenzy is still alive.

Jean was alive too...for a little while. Poor Maddie lol. Emma's time is coming, sure as the sun will rise in the morning. These dudes can't resist.

Just a shame that these insecurities have to be exemplified in the characters.

I keep trying to tell Marvel that Jean and Emma moving on with life wouldn't make Cyclops less of a man, but they won't be convinced.

We gotta get their self-confidence up. Maybe find them another mutant they can identify with that isn't so rooted in being unsure of his manhood. Gambit's always been a pretty self-assured character. Maybe they should start living through him instead?

Gotta get them off of this crutch so they can grow a lil bit! lol

So you believe that the entire Marvel editorial is made up of insecure males who are insecure of their manhood ? Please stop projecting your own issues on a bunch of book editors who are just doing their jobs.

We need some females working for marvel, maybe ill ask bendis to hire me as creative team member, lol.

Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Looney Tunes etc. already exist, we don't need more of those comic characters, kthx

Not all. I'm sure some of them are pretty chill cats. But the major ones...I'm saying their intense identification with Cyclops and the editorial decisions surrounding the character (such as forbidding his exes, Jean and Emma, to exist if they aren't going to be Cyclops girlfriend) are very telling...to say the least. lolololol

It is a stronger indictment of the fans though, really, even if it does also apply to some of the editors. If you really examine what most like about the character, it's that some of the major girl characters fight and then die over him and that all the stories center on him constantly. Take either of those factors away and the character loses all the casual fans that it has. lolol

@koays

More Howard the Duck as in "howard the duck saves the marvel universe."

Yes it is hilarious, but not because it's so transparent and obvious. It is hilarious because we don't want that. We want Jean and Emma strong and able to be independent by Cyclops (exactly like now Cyclops is finally indipendent by Xavier, Jean and Emma), because we don't need that kind of reassurance.

And here we are.

In this statement you have invalidated every criticism you have brought up and every post you make in the future.Where before you could've been viewed as eccentric or possibly just having a unique interpretation of a series of events... you have just played the card that shows your only attempt is to be inflammatory.

Firstly, under no definition is that a fact. There is no mandate. You can not prove their ever was a mandate. Your statement amounts to me saying that "the X-Men where yellow, because Stan Lee likes bananas. And my proof is that the X-Men where yellow". It goes beyond conjecture and the use of the word "Fact" three times to back up your statement shows a lack of understanding or an attempt at gaining reaction.

Secondly, while i disagree with @Time and @Hopesummersforthefuture and believe that their opinions use backwards logic...they've shown the level of respect that is generally shown on this board while disagreeing with other posters. They've used examples to back up their opinions when requested and have yet to insult the fans they disagree with or attack people personally. And they have both shown a willingness to debate the point as opposed to decreeing that anyone who disagrees with them is a (insert insulting view on male fans here).

You appear to be a troll. And if you are not then I apologize, but IF you are not then I challenge you to say something productive using facts and evidence in context. Preferably something that doesn't amount to "His girlfriends are dead, he's alive. And anyone who disagrees or likes this character is pathetic". Because its unproductive and unreasonable statements like that that proved the CBR was justified in it's treatment of it's forum and the posters on it.

And with that, I leave this thread (AGAIN) with hope that this topic gets buried once more do to it's unreasonable subject matter and unfair judgments about all characters involved.

@hopesummersforthefuture:

Let hope that their friendship continue with Present Jean Grey.

@koays

now that you mentioned it. Yeah i guess i would like to see cyclops become more independant. in uxm is is free of all that relationship problems and get to be a good leader that he wants to be

@hopesummersforthefuture: I think "more indipendent" it aren't the correct words. "More like the Cyclops of Stan Lee and Roy Thomas" are more correct.

For the moment seem to me that Bendis is writing the best Cyclops, that I have read. But I want finish to reread Uncanny X-Men an all the stories after Morrison, before confirm that first impression. Except for the story of his sense of guilty: it isn't his fault if Xavier choosed to fight against the man, who tried to save his race. But this is only my opinion and all of you should know I don't like the Cyclops boy scout.

lol

@ec2277: i like ur perspective of the matter, u touched on a lot, I will admit I am more of a fan of Psylocke and Emma, then Jean,they only time i liked her was Phoenix saga and xmen 28 when she basically threw sabretooth around, the more i read this thread, i learn new stuff, the real question shouldve been did Scott hold her back?? I know in the sixties she was the teams damsel, then she became more God like, which would intimidate someone who just shoots beams out his eyes, (i know he is more, but powerwise) tho emma is an omega telepath, her power doesn't intimidate him, i believe with the others.. cyclops has grown to be not tied to the women in his life, but it does seem like Sorry jean scott doesn't like u anymore, lets put u in the white room.. the writers couldve explored how her n logan couldve been or just jean being solo, i mean jean never been solo like pyslocke storm or rogue has, with her being the white Phoenix she could return whenever she wants, are writers insinuating that she rather do that then be with her mutant family

@drizzle1030: I think we will never exhaustively answer to this question, because the question is wrong: it isn't a character to hold back another character, but the writers.

In my opinion we can find the better example how were the writers hold Scott and Jean back, in Uncanny X-Men 357. In that issue Scott, with his wife at his side, communicates to Angel, Beast and Iceman his intention to create a new mutant dream, by which substitute the Xavier's dream. It would was an act of complete break with Xavier, an act able to anticipate the events of schism ten years and there was Jean at the side of Scott, not Emma. But the writers didn't developed that plot and they didn't speak more about this "new mutant dream", which fell forgotten. Instead when Scott and Jean met Xavier, they don't explained this "new mutant dream", but on the contrary they announced their will to leave the X-Men and have some children. Yet they can't leave the X-Men, because it started the "Ages of Apocalypse".

In short the writers acted like that angler who first inserts the bait in the hook and then throws the fishing pole.

With these kind of writers, how a character can express all its potential?

Simply it can't and if you notice the period in which Jean was portrait like a boring lovely girl next door, was the same period in which Scott was portrait like a boring douchebag boyscout at the service of Xavier. In my opinion it wasn't Jean to held Scott back or Scott to held Jean back. They were the writers to held Jean and Scott back and when the writers chosed not to held their characters back, they don't choosed to develop Jean and Scott, but they choose to develop only Scott and leave dead Jean.

If you ask me: could Jean rebel against Xavier?

I can answer you: yes because also Jean than Scott showed signs of impatience versus Xavier. You can see that in "Test to destruction" (X-Men 94 prelude to X-Men Hidden Years) and in "I'm not now, nor have I ever been… (Uncanny X-Men 375), where also Jean than Scot use their power against Xavier. But every time the writer bring back Scott and Jean in the fence of the total devotion to Xavier, using poor narrative devices and obtaining the result of reinforcing the image of two characters boring and unable to rebel against their mentor / master.

I must thank all of you, because discussing with you contributes to improvement my english.

The way her death was written was that she died because the Phoenix wouldn't let her stay long, so her coming back may not be up to her and is the will of the consciousness in the White Hot Room. Not to mention there is no actual time in the White Hot Room as it exists outside of it, so to Jean she probably has no idea how long she has been gone since she manipulate time in the physical plane to her liking when she is there. As far as we know in her mind she has only been there for a few minutes, since the first time she was White Phoenix we were told by Death, that she would come back to Earth with no memory of ever even being there.

I'm glad they decided not to explore her and Wolverine, simply because for most of their comic lives there was nothing to explore. He had the hots for her and even loved her, but she never really expressed any real interest in him until after the movie was made as far I was concerned. She may have had some feelings for him and even a little attraction because he was the polar opposite of Scott, but his feelings were deeper and for the most part unrequited.

People seem to ignore that Scotts real problems didn't stem from Jean and him being intimidated by her growing power. It was stated on panel a few times that the real problem was the time he spent merged with Apocalypse, which is why he was getting therapy from Emma to begin with, she started to fall for him and twisted the once professional relationship to suit her interests by preying on his weakness during that time. Cyclops upon his return from the merge was cold and distant from everybody, not just Jean, the moment she was absorbed by Warp Savant he showed that his feelings for her were just as strong as they ever were when he went into a rage screaming about his wife.

@lordofallhumans said:

I agree with you but for another reason: I have always thought Logan isn't enough bad to Jean. Only Scott is enough bad to stay with a badass character like Jean. In fact I was delighted when Scott said: «Captain America, Avengers go to hell!» in Uncanny X-Men 3.

@lordofallhumans: @time do u think scott's women cant live without him, i do thats why jean is dead and stays dead

Emma isn't dead, and neither is Lee Forester only, Maddie and Jean and both of them have the potential to come back. I don't feel like Scott alone is the reason Jean stayed dead. She was evolving into the Phoenix and they were planning M-day, Jean being present would have made that horrible story impossible because she would have been able to do undo it immediately. They also felt the need to reinvent Emma so that she would seem more sympathetic to the readers and more than just an ex-X-villain, what better way then to pair her with the leader of the Xmen. Then they had that horrible First Fallen story that would have had to involve Jean since the main villain was supposed to the opposite of the Phoenix. Jean was getting to big for her britches so they needed her to be away so that they could re-write the face of Marvel and tell awful stories. Here comes tomorrow showed us that it was Scott that can't live without Jean so she pushed him to do just that live.

nice :)

Quoted for truth.

I think people may actually need to go back and read Morrison's run. There seems to be a lot shifting of history about how and why Jean was written out and who had something to gain from it.