sergioRbenitez

Lol no, i was just giving an example of a feat he actually was confirmed to do at that moment in the series. Everyone was afraid he was going to aim it at the earth. I'm sure he can do more, that was just the first thing that came to mind. Also, my bad, that was just max SS1.

My bad, I was mistaken about the SSJ2, you're right.

With all do respect, I disagree with some of the stuff you said. I agree, that before Bills, all characters mentioned to have power to destroy solar systems/galaxies/universes are wipers. Buu is confirmed that he destroyed many in the course of a few years. However, Super Boo is said to be able to destroy the universe via vice shout in a matter of seconds, ripping holes in dimensions. So I see no reason why it wouldn't be taken literally when Whis says in a straight up tone that Bills could destroy a Solar System in an Instant. Perhaps, a full body energy blast that goes in all directions. Maybe done close by a star, as Supreme Kai asks how many stars will be destroyed this time. Who knows? It's all speculation, who's to say the Gods (Bills/Goku/Whis) don't have the range. SS3's power shook the earth & was felt across the galaxy/universe to Supreme Kai's realm. Maybe SSG & Bills can emit enough power to do more than just shake worlds within whole solar systems, but destroy them that way. Very far fetched I know, i'm just throwing stuff out there. We don't know how they would do it, but I believe Whis when he says in an instant (especially considering Super Boo). Also, yes he let's someone act as an agent of destruction, which Frieza very may well have been. However, Frieza's never referred to as a God of Destruction, he'd be an agent. Frieza's also just a cocky being, and said those things before BoG was even written. Whis asks Goku if he'd like to be the next GOD of Destruction AFTER Bills. At which Bills is even shown taking offense that Whis would propose that (but what's he gonna do? Whis is stronger than him), until Goku declines the offer. I'm sure they weren't talking about being just an agent.

Honestly, I'd have to rewatch GT. It's been some years, and other than the fights scenes, i didnt pay that close attention lol. Like I was saying though, I dont think the writers took the multiplier into account for the 10-15 years between DBZ & GT. That's all just my opinion though. He said he was stronger than ever, but like I said, I'll have to watch it again. I don't know if he's just saying his base form is stronger than his base form has ever been, or if he actually means he's stronger than DBZ SS3. When frieza came back in DBZ he was supposedly way stronger than when Goku beat him & SS Trunks disposed of him like nothing. So, i'm sure any base form saiyan could beat Frieza easy by the end of cell saga & after the hyperbolic time chamber, and cell with a weak SS1 form after buu saga. Omega Shenron just didn't seem as impressive to me as the feats Bills was said to be able to do. I'm not going to say I'm right about SSG being stronger than SS4 Gogeta, as I honestly don't know GT well enough to say (even though I have watched the whole thing).

When Goku achieved & felt the power of SSG he said he would never have been able to achieve that power on his own, no matter how much he would've trained. And SSG is not included in the original DBZ saga, so even though it's before the end of DBZ, the end of DBZ itself hadn't taken SSG into account. End-of-Battle of Gods Goku is stronger than the original end of DBZ goku. Of course you could apply it to the end of DBZ now, as nothing happened at the end to show Goku's power anyways. However, I don't feel it can really be said for GT. I could see the argument that it can too, but I feel because BoG kind of discredits it, GT isn't canon and can't apply it. This is all opinion though, not saying I'm really right.

This movie/manga was basically to discredit GT. In GT, SS4 is kind of viewed as the truest form of an original Super Saiyan. However, SSG is viewed as the legend of the original Super Saiyan GOD. So, my logic tells me that's stronger than SS4 Goku. SS4 Gogeta is hard to say. Also, In my opinion GT is a different universe which although based after DBZ's events, does not include being after Battle of Gods' events because BoG was created after GT. So, GT is stronger than SS3 Goku, but SS3 doesn't hold a candle to SSG nor SS4 Gogeta... so this is where the debate really begins. I can't say how much or little SSG is stronger than SS4 Gogeta. I'd think he is though being a God version of Super Saiyan, but I'm up to compare feats. How do you see SS4 Gogeta as stronger?

I'm on the side that doesn't really believe base GT kid goku is stronger than end-of-DBZ SS3, not even SS2. Yes, he fights someone who's said to be as strong as majin buu (I imagine the fat one), but by the end of the buu saga & in the new movie, all the saiyan z-fighters are on par with Buu (SS2 Vegeta even surpasses SS3 Goku). GT Goku also toys with frieza/cell, but i'm sure post buu saga, once again my opinion is that the saiyan z-fighters could do the same. I don't consider GT taking the PL multiplier into account when they were creating it. Feats being shown, and the damage created in their fights, I don't think GT Goku is much stronger than end-of-DBZ goku. Especially since he can't use instant transmission or SS3 very long. Also, DBZ super gogeta (not even SS4) is listed as having a stronger power level than GT Omega Shenron (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Power_Levels). This further complicates why I doubt GT kid Goku is stronger than adult DBZ goku, even though in GT he says he didnt feel a loss of power. The universes are different. In my opinion SSG Goku outclasses Omega Shenron as bad as SS4 Gogeta did, but SSG Goku doesn't have to worry about losing his power.

At only SS2 Goku fired a blast at Cell that could blow up the earth. SS3's power shook the whole earth & could be felt from across the universe and Supreme Kai's realm (http://www.screwattack.com/news/response-debunking-gokus-feats-and-misconceptions), he punched through King Kai's planet which has 10x gravity/greater density than Earth despite being smaller. Super Saiyan God Goku is a solar system buster, as he matches Bills God of Destruction, and is asked if he'd like to be the next God of Destruction implying he has equal destructive ability. Possible galaxy buster according to Piccolo, but I think that's a hyperbole.

He's survived multi-planet energy busting attacks and moon-busting punches from Bills.

I don't use calculations, I'll use relative feats. Here's my take.

Most debates I've seen on here downplay Goku, no one explains what he can do. People also like to say he hasn't proved he's MFTL despite Toriyama saying they are MFTL post frieza saga. They say they've shown no feats in MFTL, but everytime they fight, technically no one can see them. WE can see them because we need to in order to enjoy the anime, that doesn't mean they're not fighting at MFTL. It'd be silly of them to explain they're moving at MFTL speeds when fighting if their opponents are doing the same. How would people like them to prove it? Anyways, its proven in the new movie regardless. SSGod Goku = Bills, and Bills/Whis transverse the whole universe across galaxies from their realm to Earth in just 26min, which is well above light speed. Also, anyone that is MFTL can technically do an Infinite Mass Punch, which has been proven to to be moon busting. I heard it hits like a white dwarf star, but is that a hyperbole? Regardless, Bills destroys stars & solar systems in an instant. Not a hyperbole, because it's spoken of in past tense as he's already done it before. Piccolo even says Bills would destroy the galaxy, but I think that is a hyperbole. He also physically moon busts many moons back-to-back in his realm. This means SSG Goku can do all those feats as well, as he is asked if he'd like to be the next God of Destruction implying he has the same destructive ability. At only SS3 he punched a hole through King Kai's planet which is 10x the gravity/density of Earth despite being smaller. In the series & manga, at only SS3 his power shook the entire earth & could be felt across the universe and realms of the Supreme Kai (www.screwattack.com/news/response-debunking-gokus-feats-and-misconceptions). Now at SSG, he's way stronger than that & he currently only 10% weaker than Bills, they fight as near equals.

DC villains are more or a universal threat however. My take on why DC villains are more dangerous than DBZ villains however, deals with DC villains individual abilities/powers (such as wielding big bangs). In DBZ, villains and heroes all virtually have the same powers, just different power levels. In comparison, it would be as if all Superman's enemies were tougher & tougher Zods each time. So, who Superman has beat doesn't relate to his own power. Know what I mean? Kind of hard to explain. If Superman beats a universe buster, it doesn't mean he can bust a universe. Usually the universe busters in DC simply have that ability, it doesn't correlate to their fighting strength & ability in which Supes can match (Anti monitor an exception). So my view, is that if I can prove Goku is on par with modern canon Supes, Goku could swap places with him in the DC universe and beat the same people Superman has beat. Therefore using comparisons of who beat who is kind of irrelevant. However, in DBZ, since the villains are simply tougher "Zods" to our "Supermen", the power does relate to Goku's own power. If two are equally powerful, they are capable of the same amount of destruction.

At only SS2 Goku fired a kamehameha energy attack that would blow up the Earth. Goku also has instant transmission aka teleportation. Unlike how people claim he needs to concentrate to use it, that is false. People using that excuse fail to mention, was that Goku was moving many people at once and needed to know where to go in that setting. In battle, it takes no concentration whatsoever and he uses it many times back-to-back to cut angles & strike repeatedly against Bills during their fight. Also during their fight, they fight THROUGH the earths crust, punching eachother & busting through it as easy as moving through air. A hot knife through butter. That means they're hitting each other harder than is need to topple mountains. They later take the fight into outer space, where Goku breaths just fine. The SSG transformation has a time limit, but it's irrelevant, as Goku absorbs the power into his own so that he is just as powerful as SSG at his normal SS form now. All the feats Bills can do, Goku is now capable of.

Goku has survived blasts that have multi-planet busting ability. He did escape Namek blowing up when he was only SS1. Plus he took punches from a moon busting Bills. Goku has trained martial arts/techniques under different masters & Gods and he trains every single day of every year. His pure fighting skill is amazing. Goku uses all of his limbs, including cutting angles, teleporting, & every power in his arsenal... constantly. Goku's constantly getting stronger, (and other saiyans) especially gets stronger after a defeat. The worse they are beaten the stronger they are when they heal (all they need to heal is a sinzu bean). That's why Vegeta once got beaten into within an inch of his life on purpose, so he'd be that much stronger when he healed up.

In conclusion, SSG Goku is also more powerful than any GT version, yet slightly weaker than Bills & Whis, which says something because he used a Universal Spirit Bomb in GT which gathered energy from the whole universe into one attack. Goku can wipe out a star, solar system, planets, etc. Hopefully, I've informed you all to the extent of Goku's power. He has been majorly downplayed in most debates I've seen on here. Everything I've stated has been proven in the new movie, or done in the series, and most can be found at (dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Gods) . You can follow the links provided in the article.

(Also, I only used DC/Superman to make a comparison and explain the extent of Goku's power. Not talking shit on Superman)

Hey, there are so many versions on Superman, I'd like to use modern official canon Supes vs official Goku (Toriyama's, aka no GT), including Super Saiyan God form. I'm pro Goku, however, I'm not closed minded & I'm here to be informed. I've had a few different debates on youtube & screwattack, but none of them have been able to come to a conclusion. I felt I won them, but no Superman fan has conceded either. I was told to come here, as you all would make a better debate & be able to "school" me. I have absolutely no problem with being schooled. For example, I've already learned some of the DC villains are far more threatening to the universe than DBZ villains. So, first I'd like to list everything I've debated with a few other Superman fans so far. Also, most of the info I give on SSG Goku can be found at dragonball.wikia.c0m/wiki/Battle_of_Gods and the following links within that article. Most debates I've seen on here downplay Goku, no one explains what he can do. People also like to say he hasn't proved he's MFTL despite Toriyama saying they are MFTL post frieza saga. They say they've shown no feats in MFTL, but everytime they fight, no one can see them. WE can see them because we need to in order to enjoy the anime, that doesn't mean they're not fighting at MFTL. It'd be silly of them to explain they're moving at MFTL speeds when fighting if their opponents are doing the same. How would you want them to prove it? Anyways, its proven in the new movie regardless...

So, Superman is obviously stronger in pushing/pulling movements than SSG Goku, as it's shown him bench pressing the weight of the Earth for 5 days i believe. However, like in real life, a guy who bench presses 500lbs can't punch as hard as Mike Tyson who only did bodyweight exercises in his prime. The most proven to me that Superman has done is bust a small planet with the same density of our moon, afterwhich he fainted. I believe he used the Infinite Mass Punch to do that? However, anyone that MFTL can do that punch according to the science given on how it works correct? I'll get back to this later. I've also seen that he lands punches that could "topple mountains" and it shook the earth as he pounded Hel down into the planet's crust. Superman's beaten the likes of Anti monitor, albiet with the help of the whole DC universe it seemed like, and other mighty foes. My take on why DC villains are more dangerous than DBZ villains however, deals with DC villains individual powers (such as wielding big bangs). In DBZ, villains and heroes all virtually have the same powers, just different power levels. In comparison, it would be as if all Superman's enemies were tougher & tougher Zods each time. So, who Superman has beat doesn't relate to his own power. Know what I mean? Kind of hard to explain. If Superman beats a universe buster, it doesn't mean he can bust a universe. Usually the universe busters in DC simply have that ability, it doesn't correlate to their fighting strength & ability in which Supes can match (Anti monitor an exception). So my view, is that if I can prove Goku is on par or better than Supes, Goku could swap places with him in the DC universe and beat the same people Superman has beat. Therefore using comparisons of who beat who is kind of irrelevant. However, in DBZ, since the villains are simply tougher "Zods" to our "Supermen", the power does relate to Goku's own power. If two are equally powerful, they are capable of the same amount of destruction. Another note, I heard Superman escaped a black hole, they have also done that in the DBZ movie "Dead Zone".

For SSG Goku, I will also be giving a lot of information on Bills- the God of Destruction. I do this because SSG is about equivalent in power with only a 10% difference and he was asked if he'd like to be the next God of Destruction implying he could cause the same amount of destruction. So, regarding Superman busting moons, Bills physically busted many moons back-to-back in his realm with little effort. Goku, at only SS3, punched a hole through King Kai's planet which has 10x the gravity/density of Earth despite being smaller. Also only at SS3, Goku's power shook the entire Earth and his power was felt across the universe to Supreme Kai's realm (screwattack.c0m/news/response-debunking-gokus-feats-and-misconceptions). Bills on the other hand KO'd SS3 Goku in two hits. Speaking in past tense, they mention Bills has destroyed solar systems in an instant & Piccolo says the galaxy would cease to exist because Bills would destroy it (however I believe Piccolo's statement to be a hyperbole). Supreme Kai asks how many stars will be destroyed this time, after Bills awakes, so I don't need to mention how easy planets are. If the IMP hits with the force of a white dwarf star, and Bills/Goku could destroy stars, what does that tell you? However, I've still only seen that IMP take out a moon. At only SS2 Goku fired a kamehameha energy attack that would blow up the Earth. Bills/Whis (his master) travel MFTL across the universe to reach Earth in only 26min, so Goku could as well & technically use an IMP (though he has no need). Goku also has instant transmission aka teleportation. Unlike how the youtube video claimed he needed to concentrate to use it, that is false. What it failed to mention, was that Goku was moving many people at once and needed to know where to go. In battle, it takes no concentration whatsoever and he uses it many times back-to-back to cut angles & strike repeatedly against Bills during their fight. Also during their fight, they fight THROUGH the earths crust, punching eachother & busting through it as easy as moving through air. Seemingly easier than Supes hitting Hel down into it. They later take the fight into outer space. The SSG transformation has a time limit, but it's irrelevant, as Goku absorbs the power into his own so that he is just as powerful as SSG at his normal SS form now. All the feats Bills can do, Goku is now capable of.

Superman's durable enough to survive to colliding planets & then some. Well, Goku has survived blasts that have multi-planet busting ability, so I assume he could too. He did escape Namek blowing up when he was only SS1. Plus he took punches from a moon busting Bills. Superman has trained in kryptonian martial arts, but Goku has trained under many different masters & Gods and he trains every single day of every year. I'm very confident he's the better man when it comes to pure skill. In most comics I mostly see Supes using his hands & heat vision, I'm sure he does more though. Whereas Goku uses all of his limbs, including cutting angles, teleporting, & every power in his arsenal... constantly. Both Superman & Goku get stronger with time. Goku (and other saiyans) especially gets stronger after a defeat, the worse they are beaten the stronger they are when they heal (all they need to heal is a sinzu bean). That's why Vegeta once got beaten into within an inch of his life on purpose, so he'd be that much stronger when he healed up.

I'm sorry this was so long, but I was trying to include as much of the debates I've already had as possible. I'm very aware you could still teach me things that let me know how modern official canon Superman is stronger. I'd appreciate someone explaining to me more of his power that could beat official SSG Goku, just please remember what I've already pointed out. Can Superman hit harder than just busting a moon? Goku has. He's capable of MFTL across (at minimum) the galaxy (possibly universe) in 26min. Supes has heat vision, etc. Goku has energy attacks, etc. SSG Goku is also more powerful than any GT version, yet slightly weaker than Bills & Whis, which says something because he used a Universal Spirit Bomb in GT which gathered energy from the whole universe into one attack. Please, just help me out & inform me. Goku can whipe out a solar system ,etc. We can have a respectful debate. I just want to know who'd win and why. Hopefully, I've informed you all as well to the extent of Goku's power, as he has been majorly downplayed in most debates I've seen. Everything I've stated has been proven in the new movie, or done in the series.

THIS CONTAINS SPOILERS FROM DBZ: BATTLE OF GODS: Hey, there are so many versions on Superman, I'd like to use modern official canon Supes vs official Goku (Toriyama's, aka no GT). I'd like to start by saying I haven't collected many DC comics, especially not of Superman. I'm pro Goku, however, I'm not closed minded & I'm here to be informed. I've had a few different debates on youtube & screwattack, but none of them have been able to come to a conclusion. I felt I won them, but no Superman fan has conceded either. I was told to come here, as you all would make a better debate & be able to "school" me. I have absolutely no problem with being schooled. For example, I've already learned some of the DC villains are far more threatening to the universe than DBZ villains. So, first I'd like to list everything I've debated with a few other Superman fans so far. Also, most of the info I give on SSG Goku can be found at http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Gods and the following links within that article.

So, Superman is obviously stronger in pushing/pulling movements than SSG Goku, as it's shown him bench pressing the weight of the Earth for 5 days i believe. However, like in real life, a guy who bench presses 500lbs can't punch as hard as Mike Tyson who only did bodyweight exercises in his prime. The most proven to me that Superman has done is bust a small planet with the same density of our moon, afterwhich he fainted. I believe he used the Infinite Mass Punch to do that? However, anyone that MFTL can do that punch according to the science given on how it works correct? I'll get back to this later. I've also seen that he lands punches that could "topple mountains" and it shook the earth as he pounded Hel down into the planet's crust. Superman's beaten the likes of Anti monitor, albiet with the help of the whole DC universe it seemed like, and other mighty foes. My take on why DC villains are more dangerous than DBZ villains however, deals with DC villains individual powers (such as wielding big bangs). In DBZ, villains and heroes all virtually have the same powers, just different power levels. In comparison, it would be as if all Superman's enemies were tougher & tougher Zods each time. So, who Superman has beat doesn't relate to his own power. Know what I mean? Kind of hard to explain. If Superman beats a universe buster, it doesn't mean he can bust a universe. Usually the universe busters in DC simply have that ability, it doesn't correlate to their fighting strength & ability in which Supes can match (Anti monitor an exception). So my view, is that if I can prove Goku is on par or better than Supes, Goku could swap places with him in the DC universe and beat the same people Superman has beat. Therefore using comparisons of who beat who is kind of irrelevant. However, in DBZ, since the villains are simply tougher "Zods" to our "Supermen", the power does relate to Goku's own power. If two are equally powerful, they are capable of the same amount of destruction. Another note, I heard Superman escaped a black hole, they have also done that in the DBZ movie "Dead Zone".

For SSG Goku, I will also be giving a lot of information on Bills- the God of Destruction. I do this because SSG is about equivalent in power with only a 10% difference and he was asked if he'd like to be the next God of Destruction implying he could cause the same amount of destruction. So, regarding Superman busting moons, Bills physically busted many moons back-to-back in his realm with little effort. Goku, at only SS3, punched a hole through King Kai's planet which has 10x the gravity/density of Earth despite being smaller. Also only at SS3, Goku's power shook the entire Earth and his power was felt across the universe to Supreme Kai's realm (http://www.screwattack.com/news/response-debunking-gokus-feats-and-misconceptions). Bills on the other hand KO'd SS3 Goku in two hits. Speaking in past tense, they mention Bills has destroyed solar systems in an instant & Piccolo says the galaxy would cease to exist because Bills would destroy it (however I believe Piccolo's statement to be a hyperbole). Supreme Kai asks how many stars will be destroyed this time, after Bills awakes, so I don't need to mention how easy planets are. If the IMP hits with the force of a white dwarf star, and Bills/Goku could destroy stars, what does that tell you? However, I've still only seen that IMP take out a moon. At only SS2 Goku fired a kamehameha energy attack that would blow up the Earth. Bills/Whis (his master) travel MFTL across the universe to reach Earth in only 26min, so Goku could as well & technically use an IMP (though he has no need). Goku also has instant transmission aka teleportation. Unlike how the youtube video claimed he needed to concentrate to use it, that is false. What it failed to mention, was that Goku was moving many people at once and needed to know where to go. In battle, it takes no concentration whatsoever and he uses it many times back-to-back to cut angles & strike repeatedly against Bills during their fight. Also during their fight, they fight THROUGH the earths crust, punching eachother & busting through it as easy as moving through air. Seemingly easier than Supes hitting Hel down into it. They later take the fight into outer space. The SSG transformation has a time limit, but it's irrelevant, as Goku absorbs the power into his own so that he is just as powerful as SSG at his normal SS form now. All the feats Bills can do, Goku is now capable of.

Superman's durable enough to survive to colliding planets & then some. Well, Goku has survived blasts that have multi-planet busting ability, so I assume he could too. He did escape Namek blowing up when he was only SS1. Plus he took punches from a moon busting Bills. Superman has trained in kryptonian martial arts, but Goku has trained under many different masters & Gods and he trains every single day of every year. I'm very confident he's the better man when it comes to pure skill. In most comics I mostly see Supes using his hands & heat vision, I'm sure he does more though. Whereas Goku uses all of his limbs, including cutting angles, teleporting, & every power in his arsenal... constantly. Both Superman & Goku get stronger with time. Goku (and other saiyans) especially gets stronger after a defeat, the worse they are beaten the stronger they are when they heal (all they need to heal is a sinzu bean). That's why Vegeta once got beaten into within an inch of his life on purpose, so he'd be that much stronger when he healed up.

I'm sorry this was so long, but I was trying to include as much of the debates I've already had as possible. I'm very aware you could still teach me things that let me know how modern official canon Superman is stronger. I'd appreciate someone explaining to me more of his power that could beat official SSG Goku, just please remember what I've already pointed out. Can Superman hit harder than just busting a moon? Goku has. He's capable of MFTL across (at minimum) the galaxy (possibly universe) in 26min. Supes has heat vision, etc. Goku has energy attacks, etc. SSG Goku is also more powerful than any GT version, yet slightly weaker than Bills & Whis, which says something because he used a Universal Spirit Bomb in GT which gathered energy from the whole universe into one attack. Please, just help me out & inform me. We can have a respectful debate. I just want to know who'd win and why. Hopefully, I've informed you all as well to the extent of Goku's power, as he has been downplayed in most debates I've seen.