White Phoenix of the Crown ?

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#51 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@xerogod said:

she like a 5.. at the top is TOAA (10) Living Tribunal (9) Eternity, infinity, death, oblivion, lord chaos, master order (8) beyonders (7) Galacatus (6) WPOTC (5) nd so on and so on...actually i wudnt know where to place the gods there probably a 6 also idk

Phoenix is above Eternity, and Eternity just happened to tell Jean Grey how...so far it's TOAA, LT/PF....LT was created during creation, Phoenix was created at the start of creation.

lol just for saying that imma put her at 2.5...nvm .9, cuz u making yo self look really dumb right now...however imma be nice by saying, no no no lilttle bill wpotc is not more powerful than eternity little bill, y?? because there is a group of high powered beings called the celestials...thor basically put all of the abstracts and cosmic entities in chronological order based on power output/input and consumption...so little bill...guess who cam after exitar??? it was eternity little bill....oh and after eternity was LT little bill, oh yea and i was viewing this one picture that said that the celestials allowed/contributed to the rise/creation of the phoenix force *gggaaaaaassssssspppppp!!!* (but dont tell the phoenix fans or they may kill you with their "flames") and the enigma force which is what galan a.k.a galactus is made up of.....so little bill guess what?!?! now when i think about it, her name shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence with these folks, its a disgrace and an offense....nd dont try to say "she held an entire universe in her hands and destroyed it" newsflash!! energy or mass can neither be created or destroyed, just transformed!!! -physics plus there are other folks who can do the same and more, so do research please, and since phoenix is cosmic, like all others who are cosmic, they HAVE to obey physics to every law and every theory!! furthermore, idc if you say that its a fictional story, if your gonna use the term your gonna have to obey it, unlike magic, which is basically a mystery, [no rules, no limits] ohh yeaaa i almost forgot!! wpotc has only displayed her power in the WHR, if you read like me you will know that the WHR is like a hospital for universes, the WHR also exists beyond the physical universe but exists in all universes simultaneously [which is really bad writing by the way] and its supposed to be in the M'kraan crystal??....marvel has a lot of organizing to do..but anyways do your research and then come at me ok....cool!!

#52 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerogod said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@xerogod said:

she like a 5.. at the top is TOAA (10) Living Tribunal (9) Eternity, infinity, death, oblivion, lord chaos, master order (8) beyonders (7) Galacatus (6) WPOTC (5) nd so on and so on...actually i wudnt know where to place the gods there probably a 6 also idk

Phoenix is above Eternity, and Eternity just happened to tell Jean Grey how...so far it's TOAA, LT/PF....LT was created during creation, Phoenix was created at the start of creation.

lol just for saying that imma put her at 2.5...nvm .9, cuz u making yo self look really dumb right now...however imma be nice by saying, no no no lilttle bill wpotc is not more powerful than eternity little bill, y?? because there is a group of high powered beings called the celestials...thor basically put all of the abstracts and cosmic entities in chronological order based on power output/input and consumption...so little bill...guess who cam after exitar??? it was eternity little bill....oh and after eternity was LT little bill, oh yea and i was viewing this one picture that said that the celestials allowed/contributed to the rise/creation of the phoenix force *gggaaaaaassssssspppppp!!!* (but dont tell the phoenix fans or they may kill you with their "flames") and the enigma force which is what galan a.k.a galactus is made up of.....so little bill guess what?!?! now when i think about it, her name shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence with these folks, its a disgrace and an offense....nd dont try to say "she held an entire universe in her hands and destroyed it" newsflash!! energy or mass can neither be created or destroyed, just transformed!!! -physics plus there are other folks who can do the same and more, so do research please, and since phoenix is cosmic, like all others who are cosmic, they HAVE to obey physics to every law and every theory!! furthermore, idc if you say that its a fictional story, if your gonna use the term your gonna have to obey it, unlike magic, which is basically a mystery, [no rules, no limits] ohh yeaaa i almost forgot!! wpotc has only displayed her power in the WHR, if you read like me you will know that the WHR is like a hospital for universes, the WHR also exists beyond the physical universe but exists in all universes simultaneously [which is really bad writing by the way] and its supposed to be in the M'kraan crystal??....marvel has a lot of organizing to do..but anyways do your research and then come at me ok....cool!!

I started to read that, but then I stopped, Marvel says when LT was created.  He has existed since Marvel, Phoenix is the spark, that came before which means he followed her.  He is has a job to do within the multiverse, how can he be before that multiverse?  He can't!!!  TOAA sparked creation with the Phoenix , TOAA made LT a judge over creation, why would a judge be made before having anything to Judge?
#53 Edited by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans

"..their actions also lead to The Enigma Force transforming Galan of Taa into Galactus, a young woman into the physical embodiment of the new Death Abstract and the rise of The Phoenix." - celestials

before you can judge you have have to set rules or set standards on how things should operate within a system, in this case it is the universe, creator made the rules(physics/ e.g E=MC^2), made a judge to sustain "checks and balances among all COSMIC entities/abstracts/forms what ever, and it clearly says that the celestials started most or all -one of them- life in the universe [but i see where your coming from because marvel said that PF was the spark of all life, PF is life incarnate..but they said that when eternity came up, he took the role of being the universes collective conscious, saying all life is him and he is all life...i smell a contradiction in facts] in my opinion i see things happening like this, before the creator started the multiverse or the first universe, there was nothing [oblivion] but one has to consider that since oblivion is a living force was eternity created simultaneously as well?? anyways, eternity's creation in unknowable because no one know how time works/move, where/when/how time began or where/when/how it will end, if it ever does. no one really what realms are affected by time, such as heaven or hell or the astral plane...for instance, there are set intervals of what we think the flow of time is. if you slept for 1hr it may feel like 5mins or 7hrs...so how can one determine if a realm may be affected by time given that when we sleep time seems to have sped up or move very slow after we wake up, anyways it is debatable about when eternity was born but creator, then (eternity maybe) then oblivion/eternity then LT/eternity then the rest... but it is evident that eternity was born between oblivion or LT.....u know what imma open up a forum on this

#54 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerogod said:

@LordOfAllHumans

"..their actions also lead to The Enigma Force transforming Galan of Taa into Galactus, a young woman into the physical embodiment of the new Death Abstract and the rise of The Phoenix." - celestials

before you can judge you have have to set rules or set standards on how things should operate within a system, in this case it is the universe, creator made the rules(physics/ e.g E=MC^2), made a judge to sustain "checks and balances among all COSMIC entities/abstracts/forms what ever, and it clearly says that the celestials started most or all -one of them- life in the universe [but i see where your coming from because marvel said that PF was the spark of all life, PF is life incarnate..but they said that when eternity came up, he took the role of being the universes collective conscious, saying all life is him and he is all life...i smell a contradiction in facts] in my opinion i see things happening like this, before the creator started the multiverse or the first universe, there was nothing [oblivion] but one has to consider that since oblivion is a living force was eternity created simultaneously as well?? anyways, eternity's creation in unknowable because no one know how time works/move, where/when/how time began or where/when/how it will end, if it ever does. no one really what realms are affected by time, such as heaven or hell or the astral plane...for instance, there are set intervals of what we think the flow of time is. if you slept for 1hr it may feel like 5mins or 7hrs...so how can one determine if a realm may be affected by time given that when we sleep time seems to have sped up or move very slow after we wake up, anyways it is debatable about when eternity was born but creator, then (eternity maybe) then oblivion/eternity then LT/eternity then the rest... but it is evident that eternity was born between oblivion or LT.....u know what imma open up a forum on this

LT is the judge we get that, judges are elected after rules are established, Phoenix is not an entity/abstract nor form it is a force of creation and destruction.  The rules (of Marvel) dictate that the same force that sparked creation ends it, and as you said a judge must work within those rules.
#55 Posted by GREGalicious (476 posts) - - Show Bio

If we could (finally, after all these years) get a good modern writer for JEAN, we could learn something.

Endsong was a good start, but writers seem to be unable to move her forward and give her balance between her humanity and her role as the WHITE PHOENIX...

#56 Posted by arcano_19 (118 posts) - - Show Bio

she hold timelines in her hands i think she is below or above the living tribunal

#57 Posted by mgrman5 (588 posts) - - Show Bio

So we can all agree than that the WPOTC is super powerful and on the level of the abstracts, like Death, Eternity, Oblivion, and Infinity, and that she is stronger than the cosmic's like Galactus or the Celestials.

#58 Posted by Mercy_ (92698 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes

Moderator
#59 Posted by mgrman5 (588 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress: Would you say WPOTC could take on all of DC earth pre-52.

#60 Posted by BOPFAN#3 (116 posts) - - Show Bio

@mgrman5: GOOD QUESTION. Who would be the DC equivalent to the Phoenix Force? Is there one?

I think the Phoenix Force could take on all of Marvel and DC, is the most powerful creature there is, the only problem is that it needs a host. You could never defeat the Phoenix Force, but you could defeat Jean Grey hosting the Phoenix Force, but I think if Jean went Dark Phoenix and lost control of the Phoenix Force then you couldn’t stop her. So Technically yes the Phoenix Force could destroy the DCU, but the host would never allow that to happen if that makes sense?

#61 Posted by mgrman5 (588 posts) - - Show Bio

@BOPFAN#3: DC equivalent could be Michael Demiurgos just cause he does create life sort of but doesn't destroy life like the Phoenix. WPOTC does not need a host because she is one with Jean and is complete whole, so I think she could take on DC Earth as well just Earth not the whole Universe because that is a lot of people.

#62 Posted by arcano_19 (118 posts) - - Show Bio

WELL THE PHOENIX IS THE LIFE FORCE OF THE MULTIVERSE, JEAN HOLD AN ENTIRE UNIVERSE ONECE SO I THINK SHE IS ABOVE ALL MAYBE TIED WITH THE LIVING TRIBUNAL AND UNDER THE ONE ABOVE ALL

#63 Posted by BinkZilla (3 posts) - - Show Bio

@fesak: I'm glad you pointed that out because i was about to say the same thing.... I love Phoenix but that was Lame for her to get taken out by .... magneto?!!.. of all people

#64 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (3206 posts) - - Show Bio

@BinkZilla said:

@fesak: I'm glad you pointed that out because i was about to say the same thing.... I love Phoenix but that was Lame for her to get taken out by .... magneto?!!.. of all people

umm it wasnt even the real magneto...it was zorn a person who that he was magneto

#65 Posted by TAneT62 (1060 posts) - - Show Bio

The WPOTC should, or probably is the most powerful, the only reason people put the force down is the lack of feats, but the history of the PF changes those predicaments. Since the PF is creation and destruction of life itself, they yes, it could be the most powerful. I'm speaking from my point of view, so regardless of the lack of feats, the PF's history of what it has done, of what it is capable of doing, would rake it in the top.

#66 Edited by randumo24 (4654 posts) - - Show Bio

Did somebody seriously bring up the laws of physics in a comic forum?

#67 Posted by Sniber (317 posts) - - Show Bio

wpotc may not be most powerful but she is Best character

#68 Posted by worldbreakerhulk20009 (11 posts) - - Show Bio

i do believe POTWC is up there in power. I would even go so far as to say she could probably take on abraxas and lead it into a stalemate.

#69 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (3206 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

@mgrman5 said:
"

Really I thought she was more of a 7 or 8 compared to the others since she has been captured by Galactus, and on a side note why was she not in Chaos War or any other Abstract entities there either; especially considering how Chaos King wanted to destroy everything, and the Phoenix is supposed to protect life and all.

"
WPOTC has not appeared in anything since Here Comes Tomorrow. I wouldn't hold my breath for her appearing again, anytime soon.


I agree that Chaos War is poor at demonstrating power levels of abstract beings. For instance, it was stated that the Chaos King has consumed over 98% of the Multiverse. What was the Living Tribunal doing in the meantime? Biding his time? If such a thing is not worthy of his attention, I do not know what is.

how dare you!! she was in phoenix endsong, sisterhood arc, and wolverine and cyclops mentioned jean in schism

#70 Posted by LaMar57 (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure where you all are getting your information. From. Your making false comments. Eternity is basically God as well as Living Tribual. Eternity represents all life, and on top of that no one knows his power because it has not been displayed and if it has it was something minor. Phoenix is a fraction of Eternity. Eternity like I said before represents all life as well as time, while his sister represents space. So no I will have to say regardless of what room or whatever she will never reach their level it doesn't make sense. And people need to stop putting so much hype into (Jean) Remember folks its the force that allows Jean to be what we know as pure power. Phoenix Force is all powerful by itself. But to compare her with folks that existed way before she did and beings that represent all that there is, Eh no. COme on people use your head.

#71 Posted by time (5004 posts) - - Show Bio
#72 Posted by njones5 (234 posts) - - Show Bio
#73 Posted by njones5 (234 posts) - - Show Bio
#74 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (3206 posts) - - Show Bio

Xorn killed Jean, not Phoenix. The PF usually has a host body, and that body is still susceptible to harm. And that wasn't white Phoenix, we really don't know anything about white Phoenix except that the PF and Jean are finally one or whatever.

She was also killed by wolverine and she revive herself somehow. Tell me the phoenix didnt do that, You cant because jean was the phoenix even then but did not know it.

#75 Posted by mgrman5 (588 posts) - - Show Bio

On a side note how strong is Jean without the Phoenix at maximum power level, would that be considered to be Phoenix level of power or would she have to be a host of the Phoenix to attain that level of power.

#76 Posted by zappingmania (5 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the Phoenix represents the power of mind, the idea of Phoenix by Claremore, it was to create a cosmic heroine and the best selection for this role was Jean Grey, the weakest xmen was the strong one, which is true, Phoenix is when the psychic powers of Jean Grey reach out higher levels, for example her flames are pirokinesis, her power of creation is based in the power of telekinesis in an atomic level, the story was messed up eventually with the idea of a Phoenix Force. Now there is some holes in the story, if Phoenix is actually above Death and Eternity, then why these two never were close to Phoenix and the same example with the Shadow King, for example Death was always around Thanos, but never around Phoenix.

To be honest I prefer Psylocke than Jean Grey, mostly because Betsy was always in control of her powers and Jean Grey well she was always Phoenix, even in the anime series, I like Jean Grey with her yellow suit and in the quest of discover her powers, I really dislike the massive power of Phoenix and its weird that Phoenix its hard to write, but Thor isnt, in some way Thor can be more powerful than the other avengers but Jean cant with the other xmen, Do you think Phoenix can take down Thanos and Onslaught together? do you? well guess what, we never know, Phoenix didn't appear in the saga of Thanos or in the saga of Onslaught, but I trully believe that Phoenix is the most powerful being in the whole arsenal of Marvel, and she can take down any character from Dc and Marvel, because she is the power of mind, which for some writers its above time, space and creation.

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