White Phoenix of the Crown ?

  • 76 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Posted by mgrman5 (581 posts) - - Show Bio

How strong is White Phoenix compared to the other cosmic entities like Galactus, Eternity, Death, Oblivion, Infinite, ect is she second two the Living Tribunal? Also is she only powerful in the White Hot Room or does she have the same amount of power in any dimension? 
 

 

 

#2 Posted by treysome (93 posts) - - Show Bio

WPOTC is up there power-wise.  But her limits are yet to be explored, which I wish writers wouldn't be so afraid to write and explore.  She could give us glimpses of what life is suppose to be about.  What turns a little kid into a killer?  Why we do what we do?  Why did a part of her had to experience being a human before she could become whole again?  I doubt a Marvel Comic writer would want to go that deep.
 
Basically she's a life force and starts and ends life.  Burns away what isn't working.  She has been seen to hold time lines in her hands.  Is she beyond a god because I would of expected her to show up in Chaos Wars but maybe it would end too easily if she appeared.

#3 Posted by Mercy_ (92528 posts) - - Show Bio
@treysome said:
" WPOTC is up there power-wise.  But her limits are yet to be explored, which I wish writers wouldn't be so afraid to write and explore.  She could give us glimpses of what life is suppose to be about.  What turns a little kid into a killer?  Why we do what we do?  Why did a part of her had to experience being a human before she could become whole again?  I doubt a Marvel Comic writer would want to go that deep.  Basically she's a life force and starts and ends life.  Burns away what isn't working.  She has been seen to hold time lines in her hands.  Is she beyond a god because I would of expected her to show up in Chaos Wars but maybe it would end too easily if she appeared. "
This is pretty accurate.  
 
@mgrman5: She's multiversal. 
Moderator Online
#4 Posted by mgrman5 (581 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks guys for all of the info, but I was thinking more of putting WPOTC on a scale compared to Eternity, Infinity, Oblivion, Death, Galactus, Living Tribunal is she, 1 being not at their level through 10 being equal or better to the other cosmic entities. I know she has not have been shown many feats and is fairly new, but you can just give a rough estimate to where she should fall on the scale. Thanks for your input this is really helpful.

#5 Posted by Mercy_ (92528 posts) - - Show Bio
@mgrman5 I'd say from the few limited feats that we've seen from her that she's 9 or 10.
Moderator Online
#6 Posted by mgrman5 (581 posts) - - Show Bio

Really I thought she was more of a 7 or 8 compared to the others since she has been captured by Galactus, and on a side note why was she not in Chaos War or any other Abstract entities there either; especially considering how Chaos King wanted to destroy everything, and the Phoenix is supposed to protect life and all.

#7 Posted by SC (12696 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, the problem to me, is that your putting the Living Tribunal in the same areas as Galactus and Eternity, so on. If say a normal human was 10 out of 100, Eternity could be around 60, with Living Tribunal at 98.  
 
Phoenix Force, presumably as in its full potency (since comparing abstracts you could presumably either cancel out they are all there at once or equally not there at once seeing as both these characters are supposed to be more than they appear to be, but anyway semantics, Phoenix Force and Living Tribunal have interacted once I believe in canon, Phoenix nestled with Living Tribunals hands and then flew off.  That Phoenix there could be anywhere without more info, from 98 down, but probably definitely higher than Eternity who at times, Living Tribunal has almost treated as a witless child. 
 
Jean, with Phoenix, well like above posters, hard to tell, I would say ranging from 30 to 60. There is some awkward writing concerning her merging with it, but its possible with one thing to merge with something, without actually being that something, so some might profess to grant that Jean is as powerful as Phoenix Force, I myself disagree.  
 
Don't worry about Chaos War, its... its.. not very comprehensive when coming to this aspect of its story telling. Maybe imagine that characters above Eternity? Have the power to know what will happen and that hercules will save the day so are lacking in caring or attempting to get involved.

Moderator
#8 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@mgrman5 said:
"

Really I thought she was more of a 7 or 8 compared to the others since she has been captured by Galactus, and on a side note why was she not in Chaos War or any other Abstract entities there either; especially considering how Chaos King wanted to destroy everything, and the Phoenix is supposed to protect life and all.

"
WPOTC has not appeared in anything since Here Comes Tomorrow. I wouldn't hold my breath for her appearing again, anytime soon.
 


I agree that Chaos War is poor at demonstrating power levels of abstract beings. For instance, it was stated that the Chaos King has consumed over 98% of the Multiverse. What was the Living Tribunal doing in the meantime? Biding his time? If such a thing is not worthy of his attention, I do not know what is.
Moderator
#9 Posted by mgrman5 (581 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with you  Morpheus_   if 98% of the Multiverse was supposedly destroyed by the Chaos King you would think that the Living Tribunal would get involved, but he didn't so, like  SC said, either he already knows the outcome of these events and that Chaos King will lose and he will fix the damage that was done, or it is just bad storytelling on the writers fault; I would go with the latter.

#10 Posted by the_choice (1 posts) - - Show Bio
@treysome said:
" WPOTC is up there power-wise.  But her limits are yet to be explored, which I wish writers wouldn't be so afraid to write and explore.  She could give us glimpses of what life is suppose to be about.  What turns a little kid into a killer?  Why we do what we do?  Why did a part of her had to experience being a human before she could become whole again?  I doubt a Marvel Comic writer would want to go that deep.  Basically she's a life force and starts and ends life.  Burns away what isn't working.  She has been seen to hold time lines in her hands.  Is she beyond a god because I would of expected her to show up in Chaos Wars but maybe it would end too easily if she appeared. "
All very accurate and well said points. But I have to disagree with why. As for beings with unlimited potential I believe Phoenix is ranked number one. But if she were to be placed in the position to expose all she is capable of, It would essentially end the comic or at the least end her character. And I don't know about everyone else but... Jean Grey is one of my favorites! Not number one but definitely top 3. I honestly find it a relief that the comics still have more to say about her and what she can do because if her full potential were to be displayed, so would all other mutants. None of which who are still present within the comic have done yet. Mutantsy isn't meant to be mastered.... the not ready for that yet. 
#11 Posted by EmmaGrace (1023 posts) - - Show Bio

Phoenix saved all of the omniverse, which would include Living Tribute. Without the Phoenix keeping all that exists in existence, he nor the others mentioned would even be around. I have always personally felt that Phoenix trumps all.
#12 Posted by mgrman5 (581 posts) - - Show Bio

So White Phoenix of the Crown is stronger then Eternity, Infinity, Death, Oblivion; but not stronger then Living Tribunal.    

#13 Posted by mgrman5 (581 posts) - - Show Bio

WPOTC beats all expect Living Tribunal level.

#14 Posted by Theworldbreaker (1642 posts) - - Show Bio

She is above Galactus,Eternity,Infnity, and Oblivian but is still a bit below The Living Tribunal. I am not sure how she stacks up compared to Thanos with the IG. As for why LT dident show up in Chaos War...well considering the guy is second to God i am pretty damn sure that he knew that Hercules would defeat the Chaos King and repair the Multiverse...i mean its not like LT cant see into the future simotaniously. (did i even spell that right?)
#15 Edited by CellphoneGirl (18820 posts) - - Show Bio
@Theworldbreaker:
If Squirrel Girl could beat Thanos, then i'm most sure that WPOTC can.
#16 Posted by daak1212 (7901 posts) - - Show Bio
@mgrman5 said:
"

WPOTC beats all expect Living Tribunal level.

"

Still dosent beat Beyonder, he is not omnipotent anymore but al the feats he has done still count just to a lesser extent.  He a tier above MJJ and the Fury
#17 Posted by marvellover1 (373 posts) - - Show Bio
@xxCellPhoneGirlxx said:
@Theworldbreaker: If Squirrel Girl could beat Thanos, then i'm most sure that WPOTC can.
#18 Posted by Theworldbreaker (1642 posts) - - Show Bio
@xxCellPhoneGirlxx

Squirrel Girl could probrobly take out WPOTC as well.
#19 Posted by fesak (7031 posts) - - Show Bio

As always Phoenix gets extremely overrated in every single topic here.
She was killed by Magneto, dammit. How was that possible if her powerlevel is over 9000 as everyone claims?

Moderator
#20 Posted by marvellover1 (373 posts) - - Show Bio
@Theworldbreaker said:
@xxCellPhoneGirlxx: Squirrel Girl could probrobly take out WPOTC as well.
Made me lol :D
#21 Posted by CellphoneGirl (18820 posts) - - Show Bio
@marvellover1 said:
@Theworldbreaker said:
@xxCellPhoneGirlxx: Squirrel Girl could probrobly take out WPOTC as well.
Made me lol :D
Same here :P lol


#22 Posted by Theworldbreaker (1642 posts) - - Show Bio
@xxCellPhoneGirlxx
I'm only being real :P.
#23 Posted by EmmaGrace (1023 posts) - - Show Bio

Doesn't PF have the ability to cut out anything in the omniverse it pleases? I think it's highly underestimated..
#24 Posted by TheRealJeanGrey (127 posts) - - Show Bio


After going thru this thread and reading the posts it seems to me that people are mistaking Jean's abilties with the fact that Jean herself is human. Just because can do imensely powerful things doesn't mean she is invunerable to harm. I mean the scarlet witch wiped out 98% of all mutants with three words, but if slit her throat I'm pretty sure she wont be altering reality too much after that. And if I can remember correctly WPOTC never battled Galactus, it was Rachel not Jean. And it was Xorn who killed her not Magneto only because Jean allows herself to be vunerable by lowering her guard.

#25 Posted by rsummers (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheRealJeanGrey
So how powerful do you think she really is?
#26 Posted by EmmaGrace (1023 posts) - - Show Bio

Xorn killed Jean, not Phoenix. The PF usually has a host body, and that body is still susceptible to harm. And that wasn't white Phoenix, we really don't know anything about white Phoenix except that the PF and Jean are finally one or whatever.
#27 Posted by fesak (7031 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheRealJeanGrey said:


After going thru this thread and reading the posts it seems to me that people are mistaking Jean's abilties with the fact that Jean herself is human. Just because can do imensely powerful things doesn't mean she is invunerable to harm. I mean the scarlet witch wiped out 98% of all mutants with three words, but if slit her throat I'm pretty sure she wont be altering reality too much after that. And if I can remember correctly WPOTC never battled Galactus, it was Rachel not Jean. And it was Xorn who killed her not Magneto only because Jean allows herself to be vunerable by lowering her guard.

Yeah, that's right, she was killed by Xorn.
So Xorn > Phoenix.
Moderator
#28 Posted by marvellover1 (373 posts) - - Show Bio

No xorn>phoenix,   phoenix but her defences down, phoenix>xorn

#29 Posted by lord_oraculous016 (9282 posts) - - Show Bio
@fesak said:
@TheRealJeanGrey said:


After going thru this thread and reading the posts it seems to me that people are mistaking Jean's abilties with the fact that Jean herself is human. Just because can do imensely powerful things doesn't mean she is invunerable to harm. I mean the scarlet witch wiped out 98% of all mutants with three words, but if slit her throat I'm pretty sure she wont be altering reality too much after that. And if I can remember correctly WPOTC never battled Galactus, it was Rachel not Jean. And it was Xorn who killed her not Magneto only because Jean allows herself to be vunerable by lowering her guard.

Yeah, that's right, she was killed by Xorn. So Xorn > Phoenix.
actually, Jean back then was killed simply because she needed to die.. it was later revealed in Here Comes Tomorrow that Jean Grey needed to die for her to be reborn again 150 years into the future to ascend as the WPOTC and heal the timeline.. it was revealed that everything was a coordinated disinfection planned by the PF.. death is not an issue for Phoenix because as the name suggest, she can easily be reborn from the ashes of death.. also, the topic is focused on WPOTC not just Jean Grey.. more-so, remember Logan and Jean's conversation when they were trapped in a ship near the sun? Logan said that why is it despite all its power would it let her die.. Jean answered it is because the Phoenix is also judging her.. that is why Death told her that she must cycle both life and death to fully understand the power which is hers by right.. 
#30 Posted by shadow death (605 posts) - - Show Bio

phoenix destroys all. everyone else is able to blow up suns or create galaxies while phoenix is able to do both. plus i think she should get an award for most dead and alive

#31 Posted by shadow death (605 posts) - - Show Bio

i wonder where she goes when she's dead

#32 Posted by TheRealJeanGrey (127 posts) - - Show Bio

@lord_oraculous016

You are so right... I had completely forgotten about those... Tho now that they are ONE I highly doubt judgment is a factor....

#33 Posted by TheRealJeanGrey (127 posts) - - Show Bio

@fesak

lol... I believe Xorn killed Jean not Phoenix.... since at the time she merely serving as a host.... TEAMJEAN

#34 Posted by BMEZY (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

We all should know by now that jean will never just kill by merely a thought, even if it is within her capabilities to do so... she holds back most of the power that she wields simply because the power of the phoenix is not easily contained  and can hurt the ones she loves dearly which is why we always see her committing suicide and getting herself killed.. Phoenix's only flaw is the humanity of Jean Grey, and this is what stops Phoenix from being relentless and totally banishing the life forces of her enemies from existence.. if you remember.. Jean walked into the attack with no guards up... if was as if she was surrendering herself to Xorn.. she "allowed" him to kill her
#35 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

white hot room is her realm so what ever she wants to do in there she can do it, but in the regular unverse i doubt it
#36 Posted by Charmix (11958 posts) - - Show Bio

She's the Child of The Universe (Phoenix Force)

#37 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

it woulld not be hard for marvel to give wpotc her powers becaus ethey did so to everyone else and she is not a new character like hope so therefore they have her powers put aside until they feel like revealing them...why dont you guys just ask marvel to post your fav characters powers?? write a letter people.....i do
#38 Edited by cosmo111687 (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Phoenix in concept is meant to be the most powerful being in the cosmos. But in practice...when, say, it's necessary for Beast to land on her shoulders and put a power inhibitor around her head, her power level is noticeably lowered just to give the X-Men some kind of a fighting chance. We probably won't see her at her full potential because all she would need to do to defeat anyone who gets in her way is to tear them apart by rearranging all the atoms in the universe with a single thought.

#39 Posted by Primebonnick (1741 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_: I so agree where were they even the celestials for god sakes thats what i never understood about Chaos Wars
#40 Posted by Primebonnick (1741 posts) - - Show Bio

this is why Marvel and DC really need to come out with an official ranking list

#41 Posted by jubilee042 (1353 posts) - - Show Bio

i remember in an alternate reality that dark phoenix took over and killed the x men and that  universe was destroyed by the phoenix so if WPOTC is stronger than dark phoenix she is 97.5 and LT is 98 cause she is the child of the universe

#42 Edited by QuasarPrime (57 posts) - - Show Bio

The Phoenix Force > White Phoenix > Dark Phoenix. 
 
So, with Jean now one with, and fully bonded to, the Phoenix Force, yes, she is way up on that power scale, I would think near the top: 95-99.  I think that is one of the many reasons why Marvel does not want to bring her back. They think she is "too powerful" and don't know where to place her.  Cosmic stories would do nicely! 
 
Personally, I liked when Jean was the Phoenix in the green costume.  While she had the power, she still needed to call it up and she worked fine with the X-Men.  Yes, in one sense she was more powerful than all of them combined and doubled, but the writers were clever enough back then to weave the story and power usage so that fact was not the only one seen.  There was the human elements, the struggles, the self-doubts, etc that also were shown.  In fact, in any team, there is always 1 or 2 who are more powerful than the others (Magneto, Xavier, etc), so why can't that 1 be Jean?? 
 
I say that if they bring Jean back, she should leave the White Phoenix of the Crown and the White Hot Room and de-power down to the green level (the good Phoenix) version and have cosmic adventures.  They could pair her with others like Gladiator, Silver Surfur, Quasar, Nova, Firelord, etc.
#43 Posted by Mercy_ (92528 posts) - - Show Bio
@QuasarPrime I think the only way the PF could possibly work is if they have her on cosmic adventures.
Moderator Online
#44 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3909 posts) - - Show Bio

The Phoenix Force can work in Xmen comics, Jean has accepted that she is the Phoenix, but she still does not want to be and never has.  Jean is still an omega level mutant.  She can come back, and be able to tap the Phoenix as her power source, all psis tap the astral plane for psionic energy, Jean bypasses the astral plane and taps psionic energy at it's source, the Phoenix.  She doesn't have to destroy planets and solo everybody, Jean was taught restraint by Xavier, it's what he teaches all his students, control your power never let them control you, use them at "manageable levels" as not to the frighten the humans, Jean even when she was tapping Phoenix during her last run, was still concerned about those issues.

#45 Posted by benjaminkch (26 posts) - - Show Bio
@fesak said:


                    As always Phoenix gets extremely overrated in every single topic here.She was killed by Magneto, dammit. How was that possible if her powerlevel is over 9000 as everyone claims?

                   

               

notice how Jean/Phoenix mostly if not completely killed when she needs to be or wants to be... magneto killed jean so she could be reborn in the future to stop sublime, when dark phoenix was defeted by prof. x telepathy it was b/c jean helped and all the times she died from logan and scott b/c jean loved them and didn't want to be a monster... come to think of it  i cant think of a time she was killed otherwise? 
#46 Posted by Mercy_ (92528 posts) - - Show Bio
@LordOfAllHumans
The Phoenix Force can work in Xmen comics, Jean has accepted that she is the Phoenix, but she still does not want to be and never has.  Jean is still an omega level mutant.  She can come back, and be able to tap the Phoenix as her power source, all psis tap the astral plane for psionic energy, Jean bypasses the astral plane and taps psionic energy at it's source, the Phoenix.  She doesn't have to destroy planets and solo everybody, Jean was taught restraint by Xavier, it's what he teaches all his students, control your power never let them control you, use them at "manageable levels" as not to the frighten the humans, Jean even when she was tapping Phoenix during her last run, was still concerned about those issues.
It can't really. Not without major PIS. They have to continually nerf the power levels because Phoenix makes Jean a team buster.

She should be out in Cosmic Marvel, which the PF is much more suited to.
Moderator Online
#47 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

As the wise John Valentine pointed out, if Jean is the Phoenix, then she's a genocidal psychopath who should stay dead. If she's not, then people need to treat the entity as two separate beings already!

#48 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (3909 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:

@LordOfAllHumans

The Phoenix Force can work in Xmen comics, Jean has accepted that she is the Phoenix, but she still does not want to be and never has.  Jean is still an omega level mutant.  She can come back, and be able to tap the Phoenix as her power source, all psis tap the astral plane for psionic energy, Jean bypasses the astral plane and taps psionic energy at it's source, the Phoenix.  She doesn't have to destroy planets and solo everybody, Jean was taught restraint by Xavier, it's what he teaches all his students, control your power never let them control you, use them at "manageable levels" as not to the frighten the humans, Jean even when she was tapping Phoenix during her last run, was still concerned about those issues.
It can't really. Not without major PIS. They have to continually nerf the power levels because Phoenix makes Jean a team buster. She should be out in Cosmic Marvel, which the PF is much more suited to.
Magneto is a team buster, Hope is a team buster, Magik is a team buster, Legion is a team buster, hell apparently even Cypher is...being Phoenix is part of her, they need only return her with the ability to tap it just like Rachel did during Excalibur.
@FadeToBlackBolt said:

As the wise John Valentine pointed out, if Jean is the Phoenix, then she's a genocidal psychopath who should stay dead. If she's not, then people need to treat the entity as two separate beings already!

the people of D'Bari  were evolutionary dead-ends, what Dark Phoenix did was Phoenix work.
#49 Posted by xerogod (205 posts) - - Show Bio

she like a 5.. at the top is TOAA (10) Living Tribunal (9) Eternity, infinity, death, oblivion, lord chaos, master order (8) beyonders (7) Galacatus (6) WPOTC (5) nd so on and so on...actually i wudnt know where to place the gods there probably a 6 also idk

#50 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3909 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerogod said:

she like a 5.. at the top is TOAA (10) Living Tribunal (9) Eternity, infinity, death, oblivion, lord chaos, master order (8) beyonders (7) Galacatus (6) WPOTC (5) nd so on and so on...actually i wudnt know where to place the gods there probably a 6 also idk

Phoenix is above Eternity, and Eternity just happened to tell Jean Grey how...so far it's TOAA, LT/PF....LT was created during creation, Phoenix was created at the start of creation.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.