Is Jason Todd better off alone, or is he better with a team/GF?

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#102 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13632 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: He does still hate Bruce, its an important part of his character, without it, hes basically nothing.

And DC has not done anything fans dont like to Jason, other characters yes, but not Jason, Jason is still the antihero determined to punish Bruce.

you mean they have done anything YOU dont like to Jason. i recall alot of fans bitching about how he acted when Grant Morrison wrote him or when Judd Winick had him have sex with Talia.

@wessaari: What are you talking about?! You are confusing me with someone else, go look at my page and you'll know Im a different person and that I only recently started on this site. Its perfectly true that there is no good story that can Jason, there are no characters that can help change him and nothing in the DC Universe that can help him change becasue you got to remember he has no friends, not many people in the DC Universe knew him and he constantly isolates himself from everyone else except recently using Roy and Starfire for his own personal gain. Yes the writer can change a character, but I read RHATO volume 1 and Jason has not changed at all, he still has that anger, rage and hatred inside him since he came back from the dead. There is nothing in RHATO that points to "redemption" for Jason as you should know this, he still kills criminals, if he really redeems himself, he will stop killing criminals, make peace with Bruce and try and rejoin the Batfamily, to which he has done none of these things. There is evidence he wanted to get rid of Kori, he wanted Dick to talk to Kori, possibly leading them to reestablishing a relationship between them resulting in Kori leaving Jason and Roy. He tells Kori that shes his "friend" so he can keep using her, and when he told Dick he would take care of her, he LIED, he is probably going to try and find another use for her, as previously he tried to get rid of her to Dick. Jason is at times both a good and bad liar, and at the time he was good at lying that he cares about Roy and Kori, and that they are his "friends" so he can keep using them. It may make no sense to have the title Redemption in Volume 1 but a lot of comics have titles that make no sense to their story. Jason shows no emotion to Tim or Isabel, he hates Tim, uses Isabel to find out what dating is like and the so called emotions you say he has on his face are fake, for the persons benefit except for Tim, Jason wears his Red Hood around Tim so you cant say he shows emotion towards him. I never said I was never wrong about Jason, its only at this important point that Im completely right having know his character very thoroughly. Jason hasnt changed, the writers lie, writers often lie about their characters and storylines etc., the stories have not shown it, you have no evidence. I believe you are the troll since you are trying to push a bogus personal idea of yours on everyone else of you saying Jason has changed, your troll idea doesnt work on me, because im not falling for it, you clearly show that you barely know the character of Jason. There is no proof that he didnt lie to himself and if you really knew the character you will know that Jason would lie to himself, the writers havent told us hes lying because its left for us to find out if we really knew Jason, Jason has perfect reason to lie, he lies for his own gain and reasons. Bruce was trying to comfort Jason, thats all he wants to help/save Jason but Jason keeps refusing because he still hates Bruce for not avenging his death, for replacing him and etc. Jason is a complex character, people arent meant to know what hes thinking unless you are a fan who really knows Jason. I do know what Im talking about, because I read RHATO very thoroughly and you apparently havent, and you dont really know Jasons character if you think Jason is trying to "redeem" himself, when there is no evidence, no proof, and you are trying to force your opinion on other people, that is true trolling.

@dngn4774: im not the troll here, you and another couple people are trying to force your troll opinions on people that Jason is "redeeming" himself, when there is no evidence, no proof, of anything that happened, like making peace with Bruce or him starting to care about other people, no proof at all, im clearly not the troll here, YOU are disrespecting Jason, hell be the one disapointed with your foolishness.

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#103 Posted by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

@jasontodd11: dude, you are the only one here saying that he is lying to himself, and most people have the same idea/conviction as the people talking to you. You just started reading RHTO, and have a ways to go before you can tell me what is going on. But I really dont care anymore, because it is funny at this point. Let me guess, you aren't trying to be funny and whatnot. Keep on with your either self-diluted or conscious obstruction of Jason Todd's character, its nice to see what some people will come up with nowadays :)

#104 Posted by dngn4774 (3504 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@jasontodd11: dude, you are the only one here saying that he is lying to himself, and most people have the same idea/conviction as the people talking to you. You just started reading RHTO, and have a ways to go before you can tell me what is going on. But I really dont care anymore, because it is funny at this point. Let me guess, you aren't trying to be funny and whatnot. Keep on with your either self-diluted or conscious obstruction of Jason Todd's character, its nice to see what some people will come up with nowadays :)

It's not really funny anymore it's just tedious. We've spent so much time arguing with him that no one is even talking about the whether the current outlaws are better than a solo title for Red Hood. Users like him are a cancer to the forum that drain away any of the original intellect that started within these topics.

#105 Posted by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

@dngn4774: true, so the matter at hand, after a while since this forum started, I really feel that Jason has placed his trust with his friends, and that they will do whatever it takes to take care of each other.

I am really excited for Tynion's take, and the adventures he will put them through

#106 Posted by dngn4774 (3504 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari: I didn't mind Lobdell's run especially how he might have made Jason to mellow but it certainly had moments. My main concerns were that there was to much action and not enough plot and that Lobdell would never give Outlaws the attention it deserves compared to Titans, Superman, and Superboy. I'm glad Tynion is taking over, maybe now there will finally be some solid plot movement.

#107 Edited by Teerack (7421 posts) - - Show Bio

So glad I didn't argue with the kid that doesn't understand people at all and is super confused about what's going on in RHATOL. The writer has ever talked about how Jason feels he has a lot to prove to Bruce and stuff. Any way let me put this back on topic...

One of the things that I liked a lot about the book and I hope it continues is the leadership role keeps shifting. When it had to do with Jason's stuff he was leader, and when it had to do with Kori's stuff she took charge. Roy is my favorite part of the book and love how he took charge of the Teen Titans when Jason was gone.

I was really sad when Kenneth Rocafort left because he's the best artist ever, and I was more sad when Lobel left. I really hope that this series can pick itself back up to the quality it had in the first 9 issues.

I really hope Jason stays on a team because for broken characters like him It really speeds up and makes their character development more interestingly when there consistently around teammates especially loved ones. The fact that all three of them love each other and are broken really makes the outlaws the best place for Jason right now. Honestly I think the way the series is going I think Roy and Jason might actually develop some tension and a rivalry/power struggle type relationship and I think that will be great for Jason. Like DC's Cyclops and Wolerine. I'm sure the writer considered starting this in the beginning over Kori but probably felt having them fight over a girl would be be stupid :P

#108 Edited by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: when he said none of that matters any more, he means in that moment, of fighting the untitled, because it was the only thing that will enable him to defeat this untitled, and means he will goback to hating everyone after he kills the untitled, is it really that hard to undersatnd? He said that in that particular moment not because he actually meant it or is going to stick with it after defeating it, its in that moment only thats all.

Actually he hasnt moved on, he still kills people, looks like you are ignorant.

Everyone including me knows who fault it is, and insulting me will get you banned, Im actually bright you know and I know im right when it comes to Jason as I have studied his character through his comic appearences.

I have read the series, i got RHATO volume 1 and read the sumaries on the issues after that so it looks like you are ignorant as you are just someone who desperately want Jason to redeem himself, when in reality hes the same character he always was since his return in 2005.

Those summaries were from wikia, where the editors monitor the editing of pages, so there is no wrong information there.

Im actually right, I told you its in that moment only, he doesnt say that after killing the untitled if you even noticed.

I mean the scene where Jason puts aside his thoughts temporaily aside so he can defeat this untitled.

Im not in denial, what i said matches Jasons character and is what the writers are trying to get across, you seem in denial because you REALLY want Jason to change when he hasnt at all and hes shown disdain at seeing Nightwings costumes therefore spells he still hates the batfamily.

There is no steriotype, its just what Jason is.

Your scans just prove even more of my points, there is only person that Jason doesnt hate and thats alfred, everyone else he hates. Yes he does hate Dick as he was living in Dicks shadow as Robin and hasnt gone away since. He does hate Damian, he did shot Damian in Battle for the Cowl and he merely gives Damian advice not to get killed like he did at Jokers hands as he doesnt want anyone else suffering his fate, no scans you provided shows he cares at all. Bruce vouched for Jason because he still wants to help/save Jason despite Jason not wanting his help and hating him. And as you know Jason refuses to go home as he still hates Bruce and the batfamily (except alfred). And those scans show Jason as being emotional noting that he still hates them, as emotional scenes has him thinking about his hatred towards the batfamily.

People lie to themselves, in real life it happens as well, like people getting beat up by their spouses, they lie to themselves that everything is going to be okay. So i dont what idea you got that nobody lies to themselves, when they can lie to themselves. I know when Jason is lying when he says someone thats out of his character or that he is trying to trick someone.

The writers stories supports what Im providing, everything in those stories shows Jason as what im trying to point out to you, but you are in hardcase denial.

- Oh look your interpretation. Prove that it means he will go back to hating Bruce, i'm waiting.

- However, the reason that you most likely can't is because, in the english language, saying something like that means that you are over it.

- Prove that he actually didn't mean it. Tell me why Jason's own words were wrong or a lie. I'm waiting kid.

- Your ignorant word means little to nothing to me. Additionally, you apparently don't understand the english language or you're just in severe denial.

- Actually he has moved on kid. Him killing people that aren't in the bat family, doesn't mean he still hates the bat family. Try again fanboy.

Everyone including me knows who fault it is, and insulting me will get you banned, Im actually bright you know and I know im right when it comes to Jason as I have studied his character through his comic appearences.

I have read the series, i got RHATO volume 1 and read the sumaries on the issues after that so it looks like you are ignorant as you are just someone who desperately want Jason to redeem himself, when in reality hes the same character he always was since his return in 2005.

- You have to be one of the best trolls on this site.

- I don't care how "bright" you claim to be, when you speak about something as if you know about it and you admit you haven't read it, you probably deserve to be insulted for such ignorance.

- You clearly haven't studied the character, as you haven't read the recent issues.

- You haven't read the series. You admitted such. Summaries on Wikipedia do not constitute for reading the actual book.

- Additionally, please link me to these "summaries" as i'm curious as to what you think makes you knowledgeable of the series without reading it.

- You wouldn't know what type of character he is, because you haven't read the recent issues.

Those summaries were from wikia, where the editors monitor the editing of pages, so there is no wrong information there.

Im actually right, I told you its in that moment only, he doesnt say that after killing the untitled if you even noticed.

I mean the scene where Jason puts aside his thoughts temporaily aside so he can defeat this untitled.

Im not in denial, what i said matches Jasons character and is what the writers are trying to get across, you seem in denial because you REALLY want Jason to change when he hasnt at all and hes shown disdain at seeing Nightwings costumes therefore spells he still hates the batfamily.

There is no steriotype, its just what Jason is.

- Prove that there isn't any wrong information there. Oh wait, you can't because you haven't read it. Understood.

- Prove that it's in that moment only. Bruce only tells his sons that he loves them in certain moments. Does he only love them in those moments, and hate them in every other moment? No? That's what i thought. Try again.

- You are in denial because you can't prove a damned thing as you haven't read the series. Try again.

- The stereotype is of you, not jason. However, i doubt you can even comprehend what i'm speaking about.

Your scans just prove even more of my points, there is only person that Jason doesnt hate and thats alfred, everyone else he hates. Yes he does hate Dick as he was living in Dicks shadow as Robin and hasnt gone away since. He does hate Damian, he did shot Damian in Battle for the Cowl and he merely gives Damian advice not to get killed like he did at Jokers hands as he doesnt want anyone else suffering his fate, no scans you provided shows he cares at all. Bruce vouched for Jason because he still wants to help/save Jason despite Jason not wanting his help and hating him. And as you know Jason refuses to go home as he still hates Bruce and the batfamily (except alfred). And those scans show Jason as being emotional noting that he still hates them, as emotional scenes has him thinking about his hatred towards the batfamily.

People lie to themselves, in real life it happens as well, like people getting beat up by their spouses, they lie to themselves that everything is going to be okay. So i dont what idea you got that nobody lies to themselves, when they can lie to themselves. I know when Jason is lying when he says someone thats out of his character or that he is trying to trick someone.

The writers stories supports what Im providing, everything in those stories shows Jason as what im trying to point out to you, but you are in hardcase denial.

- Actually, they contradict everything you've said.

- Prove that he hates everyone else. I'm waiting.

- While you're at it, define "hate" and also note why the definition you choose is more viable than a different definition.

- If you're going to twist scans so that they fit your misguided and ignorant opinion, there is no point in speaking with you.

- He didn't say he hated them in any scan. I'm waiting kid.

- Prove it.

- Prove that he's lying to himself.

- You saying that "you know then Jason is lying" doesn't' mean a damned thing to me as you're just some misguided reader who hasn't even read the whole series thus far.

- You have yet to prove that the writer's stories support you without making baseless claims that "Jason still hates all of them", and "jason was lying to himself" without any evidence to prove it besides your word.

- The only thing you seem to be capable of doing is denying whatever evidence someone gives you to prove something you don't want to happen, and simply attempting to repeat words and phrases i've used in my posts towards me. I don't know how "bright" you could possibly be.

- When you actually have evidence other than your word, feel free try again.

- In the meantime, please don't quote me with your fanboy/fanon drivel as i'd rather my time not be wasted by ignorance and idiocy.

#109 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@jasontodd11 said:

@avenging_x_bolt: Jason is still a Rogue, He still kills people like Susie Su, and he certainly has the same attitude doing it, and he has shown hatred towards the Batfamily. DC is actually expanding on his anti heroism as the Red Hood, seeing hoe far they can get Jason to go completely Rogue without becoming a complete Villain. The hug was Bruce attempting to comfort Jason after Jason had his face burned, it means nothing and doesnt change anything between him, he still hates Bruce and everyone else.

i disagree with the still hates Bruce part but dont remotely care enough about Jason to argue.

I doubt DC wants Tim to go Darkside, or whatever, because that will be lame, and we already got one ex Robin gone rogue, they wouldnt make another one as nobody wants a ex Robin copying another ex Robins path.

yup. because DC has never done things that their fans wouldnt want *sarcasm*

@wessaari: Then that means Jason himself is lying to himself, sometimes people who have gone rogue do that, lie to themselves because of their conflicting emotions, conflicting emotions makes that sort of thing happen. He only cried out and said he "loved" them because he still has use for them and they are the only two people he wants to use as he mostly isolates himself away from the other characters of the DC Universe. I beg to differ that people cant lie in their own mind, people can do that, and jason is capable of doing so because of conflicting emotions regarding his hatred towards everyone and thinking of trying to be a better person when he knows its too late for him.

Jason either lied again in his own mind or he is merely saying sorry to Bruce in his own mind for failing Bruce and not being the person Bruce wanted him to be and it doesnt change a thing as he didnt actually said those things to Bruce in person only in his mind and he will still return to being the rogue ex Robin when he leaves Gotham or possibly before leaving.

Yes, I am aware that Volume 1 is called Redemption, but it has nothing in it that suggests Jason is trying to redeem himself or change, its a misleading title, thats all. He wasnt talking about Kori when he mentioned Roamnce are basically the same kind of love, he was talking about them in general, not about any person at all. The writers can be misleading at times, it happens a lot in comic books you just have to get use to it.

I do know what Im talking about actually, I have read Under the Red Hood, seen the movie, read Red Hood the lost days, Jasons appearence in Hush, Teen Titans Life and Death,Countdown The Search For Ray Palmer, Battle for the Cowl, Batman and Robin and RHATO Volume 1 itself, so I know perfectly what Jasons character is like showing I know what Im talking about and you act like you read everything about Jason Todd, I get it you want Jason to redeem himself, but that will never happen, its best that you accept Jason is the rogue ex Robin and is going to be that for a long time, and nothing will change that unless they will create a story where he will finally make peace with himself, Bruce and the Batfamily, but that wont happen for a very LONG time. I never said I knew everything either, Im just getting the ideas the writers are trying to get across to audiences, its their intention to show that Jason hasnt changed. Roy and Starfire arent his friends either, if he says they are friends he actually means "friends" which means that they are not his friends and that he is merely using them.

@wessaari: I have no idea what you are talking about, me banned? I only just joined Comic Vine. I dont have ridiculous excuse, I am proving points that fits Jasons character, but your "so called" "evidence" doesnt support Jasons character at all, its like you dont even know Jason at all like you never even read anything with Jason at all. We can enjoy what Jason does and enjoy the fact hes still the guy that people love to hate, and enjoy that hes the only member (formerly) of the bat family to have gone rogue and separate himself completely from them.

@dngn4774: What I Want? I may want it, but its what DC is giving us as there is numerous evidence that shows Jason hasnt changed at all. This is what DC is writing Jason to be, people just have to accept it. Everything I said fits in what RHATO is showing us, everything you said about a redeeming Jason just completely contradicts RHATO altogether.

He is using them, maybe not after common criminals but bigger criminals that they can find that he will enjoy killing. Its actually logical that Jason is trying get rid of Starfire because everyone knows hes not a people person, and she is Dicks friend not Jasons. He didnt share the memory with his team, he gave it away to that guy that looks like a kid, when he did that he had a dark look on his face, that just screams, that hes trying to be more antihero and trying to control his conflicting emotions rather than your fictional thought of him redeeming himself.

Everything you are saying contradicts both Jason and RHATO completely wheras what im saying fits perfectly and fits what the writers are trying to get across.

@thejman250: when he said none of that matters any more, he means in that moment, of fighting the untitled, because it was the only thing that will enable him to defeat this untitled, and means he will goback to hating everyone after he kills the untitled, is it really that hard to undersatnd? He said that in that particular moment not because he actually meant it or is going to stick with it after defeating it, its in that moment only thats all.

Actually he hasnt moved on, he still kills people, looks like you are ignorant.

Everyone including me knows who fault it is, and insulting me will get you banned, Im actually bright you know and I know im right when it comes to Jason as I have studied his character through his comic appearences.

I have read the series, i got RHATO volume 1 and read the sumaries on the issues after that so it looks like you are ignorant as you are just someone who desperately want Jason to redeem himself, when in reality hes the same character he always was since his return in 2005.

Those summaries were from wikia, where the editors monitor the editing of pages, so there is no wrong information there.

Im actually right, I told you its in that moment only, he doesnt say that after killing the untitled if you even noticed.

I mean the scene where Jason puts aside his thoughts temporaily aside so he can defeat this untitled.

Im not in denial, what i said matches Jasons character and is what the writers are trying to get across, you seem in denial because you REALLY want Jason to change when he hasnt at all and hes shown disdain at seeing Nightwings costumes therefore spells he still hates the batfamily.

There is no steriotype, its just what Jason is.

Your scans just prove even more of my points, there is only person that Jason doesnt hate and thats alfred, everyone else he hates. Yes he does hate Dick as he was living in Dicks shadow as Robin and hasnt gone away since. He does hate Damian, he did shot Damian in Battle for the Cowl and he merely gives Damian advice not to get killed like he did at Jokers hands as he doesnt want anyone else suffering his fate, no scans you provided shows he cares at all. Bruce vouched for Jason because he still wants to help/save Jason despite Jason not wanting his help and hating him. And as you know Jason refuses to go home as he still hates Bruce and the batfamily (except alfred). And those scans show Jason as being emotional noting that he still hates them, as emotional scenes has him thinking about his hatred towards the batfamily.

People lie to themselves, in real life it happens as well, like people getting beat up by their spouses, they lie to themselves that everything is going to be okay. So i dont what idea you got that nobody lies to themselves, when they can lie to themselves. I know when Jason is lying when he says someone thats out of his character or that he is trying to trick someone.

The writers stories supports what Im providing, everything in those stories shows Jason as what im trying to point out to you, but you are in hardcase denial.

- And you actually quoting this ignorant fanboy consistently as if he actually knows what he's talking about when he hasn't even read the series.

- How cute.

#110 Posted by dngn4774 (3504 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: You don't feel like Lobdell was dragging the book? It seemed like nearly every issue (besides the last 2) he kept writing in a bunch of action scenes and not really adding anything to the Essence/All-Caste/Untitled plotline. I'm hoping the new writer begins to tie up all of the loose threads that Lobdell left behind.

#111 Posted by Teerack (7421 posts) - - Show Bio

@dngn4774 said:

@teerack: You don't feel like Lobdell was dragging the book? It seemed like nearly every issue (besides the last 2) he kept writing in a bunch of action scenes and not really adding anything to the Essence/All-Caste/Untitled plotline. I'm hoping the new writer begins to tie up all of the loose threads that Lobdell left behind.

I think that Lobdell stopped care about the series once he got promoted to Superman.

#112 Edited by God_Spawn (38305 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: You need to calm down with the insults, dude. 1st warning for the constant fanboy and idiot comments. Regardless if he is trolling or not, it doesn't help the situation.

Moderator
#114 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: You need to calm down with the insults, dude. 1st warning for the constant fanboy and idiot comments. Regardless if he is trolling or not, it doesn't help the situation.

- Fine, i'm just about done entertaining this nonsense anyway.

#115 Edited by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: Dont know what you are talking baotu, Jason is the same as ever, its your fanboy dream that Jason is trying to redeem himself.

@wessaari said:

@jasontodd11: dude, you are the only one here saying that he is lying to himself, and most people have the same idea/conviction as the people talking to you. You just started reading RHTO, and have a ways to go before you can tell me what is going on. But I really dont care anymore, because it is funny at this point. Let me guess, you aren't trying to be funny and whatnot. Keep on with your either self-diluted or conscious obstruction of Jason Todd's character, its nice to see what some people will come up with nowadays :)

Not the only one, I also say Jason can lie to himself, as I also know Jason thoroughly, you clearly dont know Jason if you think he actually cares about anyone else. Since a lot of you has the same fanboy fantasy as you, its apparent that none of you actually read RHATO or the pre 52 comic books featuring Jason thoroughly and that none of you actually know the character. Keep up your fanboy fantasy, while I continue to enjoy Jason that apparently only me and a few others know thoroughly.

@dngn4774 said:

@wessaari said:

@jasontodd11: dude, you are the only one here saying that he is lying to himself, and most people have the same idea/conviction as the people talking to you. You just started reading RHTO, and have a ways to go before you can tell me what is going on. But I really dont care anymore, because it is funny at this point. Let me guess, you aren't trying to be funny and whatnot. Keep on with your either self-diluted or conscious obstruction of Jason Todd's character, its nice to see what some people will come up with nowadays :)

It's not really funny anymore it's just tedious. We've spent so much time arguing with him that no one is even talking about the whether the current outlaws are better than a solo title for Red Hood. Users like him are a cancer to the forum that drain away any of the original intellect that started within these topics.

You are the cancerous one, a lot of you here are, as none of you understand the character like me, JasonTodd13 and JasonTodd1 do. Most of you other guys are trolling people like me and you deserve to be banned.

@thejman250 said:

@jasontodd11 said:

@thejman250: when he said none of that matters any more, he means in that moment, of fighting the untitled, because it was the only thing that will enable him to defeat this untitled, and means he will goback to hating everyone after he kills the untitled, is it really that hard to undersatnd? He said that in that particular moment not because he actually meant it or is going to stick with it after defeating it, its in that moment only thats all.

Actually he hasnt moved on, he still kills people, looks like you are ignorant.

Everyone including me knows who fault it is, and insulting me will get you banned, Im actually bright you know and I know im right when it comes to Jason as I have studied his character through his comic appearences.

I have read the series, i got RHATO volume 1 and read the sumaries on the issues after that so it looks like you are ignorant as you are just someone who desperately want Jason to redeem himself, when in reality hes the same character he always was since his return in 2005.

Those summaries were from wikia, where the editors monitor the editing of pages, so there is no wrong information there.

Im actually right, I told you its in that moment only, he doesnt say that after killing the untitled if you even noticed.

I mean the scene where Jason puts aside his thoughts temporaily aside so he can defeat this untitled.

Im not in denial, what i said matches Jasons character and is what the writers are trying to get across, you seem in denial because you REALLY want Jason to change when he hasnt at all and hes shown disdain at seeing Nightwings costumes therefore spells he still hates the batfamily.

There is no steriotype, its just what Jason is.

Your scans just prove even more of my points, there is only person that Jason doesnt hate and thats alfred, everyone else he hates. Yes he does hate Dick as he was living in Dicks shadow as Robin and hasnt gone away since. He does hate Damian, he did shot Damian in Battle for the Cowl and he merely gives Damian advice not to get killed like he did at Jokers hands as he doesnt want anyone else suffering his fate, no scans you provided shows he cares at all. Bruce vouched for Jason because he still wants to help/save Jason despite Jason not wanting his help and hating him. And as you know Jason refuses to go home as he still hates Bruce and the batfamily (except alfred). And those scans show Jason as being emotional noting that he still hates them, as emotional scenes has him thinking about his hatred towards the batfamily.

People lie to themselves, in real life it happens as well, like people getting beat up by their spouses, they lie to themselves that everything is going to be okay. So i dont what idea you got that nobody lies to themselves, when they can lie to themselves. I know when Jason is lying when he says someone thats out of his character or that he is trying to trick someone.

The writers stories supports what Im providing, everything in those stories shows Jason as what im trying to point out to you, but you are in hardcase denial.

- Oh look your interpretation. Prove that it means he will go back to hating Bruce, i'm waiting.

- However, the reason that you most likely can't is because, in the english language, saying something like that means that you are over it.

- Prove that he actually didn't mean it. Tell me why Jason's own words were wrong or a lie. I'm waiting kid.

- Your ignorant word means little to nothing to me. Additionally, you apparently don't understand the english language or you're just in severe denial.

- Actually he has moved on kid. Him killing people that aren't in the bat family, doesn't mean he still hates the bat family. Try again fanboy.

Everyone including me knows who fault it is, and insulting me will get you banned, Im actually bright you know and I know im right when it comes to Jason as I have studied his character through his comic appearences.

I have read the series, i got RHATO volume 1 and read the sumaries on the issues after that so it looks like you are ignorant as you are just someone who desperately want Jason to redeem himself, when in reality hes the same character he always was since his return in 2005.

- You have to be one of the best trolls on this site.

- I don't care how "bright" you claim to be, when you speak about something as if you know about it and you admit you haven't read it, you probably deserve to be insulted for such ignorance.

- You clearly haven't studied the character, as you haven't read the recent issues.

- You haven't read the series. You admitted such. Summaries on Wikipedia do not constitute for reading the actual book.

- Additionally, please link me to these "summaries" as i'm curious as to what you think makes you knowledgeable of the series without reading it.

- You wouldn't know what type of character he is, because you haven't read the recent issues.

Those summaries were from wikia, where the editors monitor the editing of pages, so there is no wrong information there.

Im actually right, I told you its in that moment only, he doesnt say that after killing the untitled if you even noticed.

I mean the scene where Jason puts aside his thoughts temporaily aside so he can defeat this untitled.

Im not in denial, what i said matches Jasons character and is what the writers are trying to get across, you seem in denial because you REALLY want Jason to change when he hasnt at all and hes shown disdain at seeing Nightwings costumes therefore spells he still hates the batfamily.

There is no steriotype, its just what Jason is.

- Prove that there isn't any wrong information there. Oh wait, you can't because you haven't read it. Understood.

- Prove that it's in that moment only. Bruce only tells his sons that he loves them in certain moments. Does he only love them in those moments, and hate them in every other moment? No? That's what i thought. Try again.

- You are in denial because you can't prove a damned thing as you haven't read the series. Try again.

- The stereotype is of you, not jason. However, i doubt you can even comprehend what i'm speaking about.

Your scans just prove even more of my points, there is only person that Jason doesnt hate and thats alfred, everyone else he hates. Yes he does hate Dick as he was living in Dicks shadow as Robin and hasnt gone away since. He does hate Damian, he did shot Damian in Battle for the Cowl and he merely gives Damian advice not to get killed like he did at Jokers hands as he doesnt want anyone else suffering his fate, no scans you provided shows he cares at all. Bruce vouched for Jason because he still wants to help/save Jason despite Jason not wanting his help and hating him. And as you know Jason refuses to go home as he still hates Bruce and the batfamily (except alfred). And those scans show Jason as being emotional noting that he still hates them, as emotional scenes has him thinking about his hatred towards the batfamily.

People lie to themselves, in real life it happens as well, like people getting beat up by their spouses, they lie to themselves that everything is going to be okay. So i dont what idea you got that nobody lies to themselves, when they can lie to themselves. I know when Jason is lying when he says someone thats out of his character or that he is trying to trick someone.

The writers stories supports what Im providing, everything in those stories shows Jason as what im trying to point out to you, but you are in hardcase denial.

- Actually, they contradict everything you've said.

- Prove that he hates everyone else. I'm waiting.

- While you're at it, define "hate" and also note why the definition you choose is more viable than a different definition.

- If you're going to twist scans so that they fit your misguided and ignorant opinion, there is no point in speaking with you.

- He didn't say he hated them in any scan. I'm waiting kid.

- Prove it.

- Prove that he's lying to himself.

- You saying that "you know then Jason is lying" doesn't' mean a damned thing to me as you're just some misguided reader who hasn't even read the whole series thus far.

- You have yet to prove that the writer's stories support you without making baseless claims that "Jason still hates all of them", and "jason was lying to himself" without any evidence to prove it besides your word.

- The only thing you seem to be capable of doing is denying whatever evidence someone gives you to prove something you don't want to happen, and simply attempting to repeat words and phrases i've used in my posts towards me. I don't know how "bright" you could possibly be.

- When you actually have evidence other than your word, feel free try again.

- In the meantime, please don't quote me with your fanboy/fanon drivel as i'd rather my time not be wasted by ignorance and idiocy.

Not just his interpretation, its the writers interpretation too, and you cant argue with the writer. He never said he got over hating Bruce, thats your proof.

Jason still kills people, that screams that he hasnt changed.

Who are you to talk down to other people you troll!? There is no evience that he told the truth, and in case you havent noticed Jason has be known to lie like in Battle for the cowl, where he claimed that Tim was dead.

You are in denial as you have no evidence at all supporting your fanboy fantasy, clearly youre ignorant.

It does mean he hasnt moved on, because he kills people to spite Bruce because hes become what Bruce refuses to be, its like saying scre you Bruce to his no kill rule.

You and the other users who dont understand Jason are the best trolls here, you are clearly arrogant to talk down to people.

Even dumb monkeys would understand Jasons character better than you.

He has studied the character, he has said he read a lot of Jason Todd comics, just like me.

Summaries on wikia give out the most important defining events that happen in the comic.

Go find it yourself on DC wikia.

He would know the character as he understands the character better than you.

He read the summaries stating the most imprtant parts of the story, thats good enough.

Jason never said he got over what happened ever, and he never said anything about doing so after that fight. Bruce loves all the kids hes raised but Jason has too much hatred inside, to get over what happened.

He has gave evidence, you just ignored it, you have no evidence.

You dont comprehend the character of Jason.

Actually they dont contradict what he said, they fit what he says.

Hes shown disdain to nightwings suits, Roy himself on the airplane, doesnt get along with kyle rayner, etc.

Hate means he despise, dislikes a lot, do you need a dictionary?

He doesnt need to say he hates them, he shows it on his face like when he saw nightwings old suits.

prove that Jason is telling the truth.

it doesnt matter, he read the summaries with the most important points of the story thats good enough and you still have no evidence.

Hes proved it a lot, given the amount of grief Jason has given the batfamily over the years, if Jason doesnt hate everyone, then his return to life is meaningless.

the "evidence" you give is faulty and proves JasonTodd11 is right.

when you have evidence other than your word, feel free to show it.

once again your arrogant talking down to people like your king or something.

- Look troll, i'm just about entertaining your drivel with your alternate accounts and your ignorance. Have a nice day.

#116 Posted by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

He is doing this to get a rise out of us, and literally is so freaking pathetic that he has to make multiple accounts to try and clog up the forum. It really is enough, but he won't stop so lets ignore him and let him play around with himself.

I think it is interesting what Tynion is doing. He seems to have a firm grip on what Lobdell laid forth in the initial arc, and is using that to his advantage. We are seeing the Proctor, and Essence again, but I am confused as to how Strange will fit into this. I am really hoping that this series doesn't really jump around, because the solicits show some forward movement, but the covers offer us something different. Nonetheless, with Roy getting a spotlight in the RHTO annual and bringing in Cheshire and Queen, I am really excited to see how Roy will react.

#117 Edited by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

He is doing this to get a rise out of us, and literally is so freaking pathetic that he has to make multiple accounts to try and clog up the forum. It really is enough, but he won't stop so lets ignore him and let him play around with himself.

I think it is interesting what Tynion is doing. He seems to have a firm grip on what Lobdell laid forth in the initial arc, and is using that to his advantage. We are seeing the Proctor, and Essence again, but I am confused as to how Strange will fit into this. I am really hoping that this series doesn't really jump around, because the solicits show some forward movement, but the covers offer us something different. Nonetheless, with Roy getting a spotlight in the RHTO annual and bringing in Cheshire and Queen, I am really excited to see how Roy will react.

- Yes, the strange plot is interesting and hopefully it delivers. Additionally, the Deathstroke plot looks promising if it ever occurs.

- I'm also glad that Roy's origin will be explored after only seeing flashbacks. We've already had Jason's(well somewhat) backstory and Kori's backstory explained, so i definitely think Roy deserves some time to shine. I also have to read the issue of "DC Presents" that features Roy.

- I'm interested in what Jason's new mission (according to the solicits) is after his making amends with Bruce. I'm highly interested as in how the dynamic between the two of them and the rest of the family will be now that they've made peace.

- Additionally, i think Richard should stop being a dick to Jason. However, it's possible to say that said situation goes both ways. Despite this, i blame this on Richard as he's the oldest and he consistently acts like a dick/ass to Jason. Sure Barba and Damian act like an ass to Jason as well at times , but i don't' care about Barbra (and after DOTF, they might be friendly towards each other) and Damian is dead...

- On another note, i think we should all ignore the troll.

#118 Edited by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: well you know, I dont think it is really over with. i think for the most part, Jason has let go a lot of his anger, and during his time within his mind, he realizes that he had a lot to do with his current predicament. I don't like the idea that Jason needs to be Wingman, or that it is only with Bruce that he can be redeemed. I love that they had that moment together, and to know that Jason doesn't necessarily hate Bruce anymore offers new stories to tell which I think will be great, but Bruce isn't perfect, and i dont see Jason stopping what he is doing. I see him more enlightened, and more aware that the Bat-family isn't an enemy. I would love to see more interaction between him and Tim, and maybe some conflict with Dick in the future, but for the most part he really isn't an integral part of the Bat-fam. I think he might be considered an ally, as he has helped out in a long list of occasions, but he does still kill, he does things his own way, and for Jason to be an Outlaw is the best thing he can be. I would like to see a real Red Hood and Batman team up, which we might see in B&R numba 20 that is coming in May.

I feel that the Outlaws are going to have a mindset like; ok we had that little side step, now it is time to go back to work. And that may be where Jason's past will come back, as the solicits show that he had a history with the League of Assassins. So the future looks to be very interesting.

Ya, I feel that Dick held Jason to a really high standard, and when he came back with a vengeance, Dick really wasn't sympathetic, and neither was Babs or Damian. I really don't see the Babs Jason friendship anytime in the future, and even though Damian is dead, they did share some adventures together as Wingman and Redbird, which I didn't particularly care for, but still happened. With Dick going to Chicago, Damian dead, and Babs really in her own world ( I think that DOTF really hit her hard, and her trust with Bruce) the family really is too broken to judge Jason at the moment as a whole. On an individual level, I don't think Dick will like it that much if Jason teamed up with Bruce as Red Hood, Babs really wouldn't like it, but I think Tim would be supportive, though he is off with the Titans, and rarely hangs with the Bat-Clan ( which bums me out). So it really is up in the air as to how the whole family will feel, as the family is pretty broken at this point in time.

I read the DC Presents, and truly felt that the writer didn't necessarily grasp the new 52 Roy. I mean he seemed so cold, and Jason seemed so much like Roy. I felt they were really switched, and I just couldn't get into the plot. I am glad that Roy finally got a spotlight but it wasn't my taste.

#119 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13632 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: Dont know what you are talking baotu, Jason is the same as ever, its your fanboy dream that Jason is trying to redeem himself.

yes. its totally my fanboy dream that a character that i hate could redeem himself,despite the fact that i could only benefit from his misfortune /sarcasm/

@wessaari said:

@jasontodd11: dude, you are the only one here saying that he is lying to himself, and most people have the same idea/conviction as the people talking to you. You just started reading RHTO, and have a ways to go before you can tell me what is going on. But I really dont care anymore, because it is funny at this point. Let me guess, you aren't trying to be funny and whatnot. Keep on with your either self-diluted or conscious obstruction of Jason Todd's character, its nice to see what some people will come up with nowadays :)

Not the only one, I also say Jason can lie to himself, as I also know Jason thoroughly, you clearly dont know Jason if you think he actually cares about anyone else. Since a lot of you has the same fanboy fantasy as you, its apparent that none of you actually read RHATO or the pre 52 comic books featuring Jason thoroughly and that none of you actually know the character. Keep up your fanboy fantasy, while I continue to enjoy Jason that apparently only me and a few others know thoroughly.

@dngn4774 said:

@wessaari said:

@jasontodd11: dude, you are the only one here saying that he is lying to himself, and most people have the same idea/conviction as the people talking to you. You just started reading RHTO, and have a ways to go before you can tell me what is going on. But I really dont care anymore, because it is funny at this point. Let me guess, you aren't trying to be funny and whatnot. Keep on with your either self-diluted or conscious obstruction of Jason Todd's character, its nice to see what some people will come up with nowadays :)

It's not really funny anymore it's just tedious. We've spent so much time arguing with him that no one is even talking about the whether the current outlaws are better than a solo title for Red Hood. Users like him are a cancer to the forum that drain away any of the original intellect that started within these topics.

You are the cancerous one, a lot of you here are, as none of you understand the character like me, JasonTodd13 and JasonTodd1 do. Most of you other guys are trolling people like me and you deserve to be banned.

@thejman250 said:

@jasontodd11 said:

@thejman250: when he said none of that matters any more, he means in that moment, of fighting the untitled, because it was the only thing that will enable him to defeat this untitled, and means he will goback to hating everyone after he kills the untitled, is it really that hard to undersatnd? He said that in that particular moment not because he actually meant it or is going to stick with it after defeating it, its in that moment only thats all.

Actually he hasnt moved on, he still kills people, looks like you are ignorant.

Everyone including me knows who fault it is, and insulting me will get you banned, Im actually bright you know and I know im right when it comes to Jason as I have studied his character through his comic appearences.

I have read the series, i got RHATO volume 1 and read the sumaries on the issues after that so it looks like you are ignorant as you are just someone who desperately want Jason to redeem himself, when in reality hes the same character he always was since his return in 2005.

Those summaries were from wikia, where the editors monitor the editing of pages, so there is no wrong information there.

Im actually right, I told you its in that moment only, he doesnt say that after killing the untitled if you even noticed.

I mean the scene where Jason puts aside his thoughts temporaily aside so he can defeat this untitled.

Im not in denial, what i said matches Jasons character and is what the writers are trying to get across, you seem in denial because you REALLY want Jason to change when he hasnt at all and hes shown disdain at seeing Nightwings costumes therefore spells he still hates the batfamily.

There is no steriotype, its just what Jason is.

Your scans just prove even more of my points, there is only person that Jason doesnt hate and thats alfred, everyone else he hates. Yes he does hate Dick as he was living in Dicks shadow as Robin and hasnt gone away since. He does hate Damian, he did shot Damian in Battle for the Cowl and he merely gives Damian advice not to get killed like he did at Jokers hands as he doesnt want anyone else suffering his fate, no scans you provided shows he cares at all. Bruce vouched for Jason because he still wants to help/save Jason despite Jason not wanting his help and hating him. And as you know Jason refuses to go home as he still hates Bruce and the batfamily (except alfred). And those scans show Jason as being emotional noting that he still hates them, as emotional scenes has him thinking about his hatred towards the batfamily.

People lie to themselves, in real life it happens as well, like people getting beat up by their spouses, they lie to themselves that everything is going to be okay. So i dont what idea you got that nobody lies to themselves, when they can lie to themselves. I know when Jason is lying when he says someone thats out of his character or that he is trying to trick someone.

The writers stories supports what Im providing, everything in those stories shows Jason as what im trying to point out to you, but you are in hardcase denial.

- Oh look your interpretation. Prove that it means he will go back to hating Bruce, i'm waiting.

- However, the reason that you most likely can't is because, in the english language, saying something like that means that you are over it.

- Prove that he actually didn't mean it. Tell me why Jason's own words were wrong or a lie. I'm waiting kid.

- Your ignorant word means little to nothing to me. Additionally, you apparently don't understand the english language or you're just in severe denial.

- Actually he has moved on kid. Him killing people that aren't in the bat family, doesn't mean he still hates the bat family. Try again fanboy.

Everyone including me knows who fault it is, and insulting me will get you banned, Im actually bright you know and I know im right when it comes to Jason as I have studied his character through his comic appearences.

I have read the series, i got RHATO volume 1 and read the sumaries on the issues after that so it looks like you are ignorant as you are just someone who desperately want Jason to redeem himself, when in reality hes the same character he always was since his return in 2005.

- You have to be one of the best trolls on this site.

- I don't care how "bright" you claim to be, when you speak about something as if you know about it and you admit you haven't read it, you probably deserve to be insulted for such ignorance.

- You clearly haven't studied the character, as you haven't read the recent issues.

- You haven't read the series. You admitted such. Summaries on Wikipedia do not constitute for reading the actual book.

- Additionally, please link me to these "summaries" as i'm curious as to what you think makes you knowledgeable of the series without reading it.

- You wouldn't know what type of character he is, because you haven't read the recent issues.

Those summaries were from wikia, where the editors monitor the editing of pages, so there is no wrong information there.

Im actually right, I told you its in that moment only, he doesnt say that after killing the untitled if you even noticed.

I mean the scene where Jason puts aside his thoughts temporaily aside so he can defeat this untitled.

Im not in denial, what i said matches Jasons character and is what the writers are trying to get across, you seem in denial because you REALLY want Jason to change when he hasnt at all and hes shown disdain at seeing Nightwings costumes therefore spells he still hates the batfamily.

There is no steriotype, its just what Jason is.

- Prove that there isn't any wrong information there. Oh wait, you can't because you haven't read it. Understood.

- Prove that it's in that moment only. Bruce only tells his sons that he loves them in certain moments. Does he only love them in those moments, and hate them in every other moment? No? That's what i thought. Try again.

- You are in denial because you can't prove a damned thing as you haven't read the series. Try again.

- The stereotype is of you, not jason. However, i doubt you can even comprehend what i'm speaking about.

Your scans just prove even more of my points, there is only person that Jason doesnt hate and thats alfred, everyone else he hates. Yes he does hate Dick as he was living in Dicks shadow as Robin and hasnt gone away since. He does hate Damian, he did shot Damian in Battle for the Cowl and he merely gives Damian advice not to get killed like he did at Jokers hands as he doesnt want anyone else suffering his fate, no scans you provided shows he cares at all. Bruce vouched for Jason because he still wants to help/save Jason despite Jason not wanting his help and hating him. And as you know Jason refuses to go home as he still hates Bruce and the batfamily (except alfred). And those scans show Jason as being emotional noting that he still hates them, as emotional scenes has him thinking about his hatred towards the batfamily.

People lie to themselves, in real life it happens as well, like people getting beat up by their spouses, they lie to themselves that everything is going to be okay. So i dont what idea you got that nobody lies to themselves, when they can lie to themselves. I know when Jason is lying when he says someone thats out of his character or that he is trying to trick someone.

The writers stories supports what Im providing, everything in those stories shows Jason as what im trying to point out to you, but you are in hardcase denial.

- Actually, they contradict everything you've said.

- Prove that he hates everyone else. I'm waiting.

- While you're at it, define "hate" and also note why the definition you choose is more viable than a different definition.

- If you're going to twist scans so that they fit your misguided and ignorant opinion, there is no point in speaking with you.

- He didn't say he hated them in any scan. I'm waiting kid.

- Prove it.

- Prove that he's lying to himself.

- You saying that "you know then Jason is lying" doesn't' mean a damned thing to me as you're just some misguided reader who hasn't even read the whole series thus far.

- You have yet to prove that the writer's stories support you without making baseless claims that "Jason still hates all of them", and "jason was lying to himself" without any evidence to prove it besides your word.

- The only thing you seem to be capable of doing is denying whatever evidence someone gives you to prove something you don't want to happen, and simply attempting to repeat words and phrases i've used in my posts towards me. I don't know how "bright" you could possibly be.

- When you actually have evidence other than your word, feel free try again.

- In the meantime, please don't quote me with your fanboy/fanon drivel as i'd rather my time not be wasted by ignorance and idiocy.

Not just his interpretation, its the writers interpretation too, and you cant argue with the writer. He never said he got over hating Bruce, thats your proof.

Jason still kills people, that screams that he hasnt changed.

Who are you to talk down to other people you troll!? There is no evience that he told the truth, and in case you havent noticed Jason has be known to lie like in Battle for the cowl, where he claimed that Tim was dead.

You are in denial as you have no evidence at all supporting your fanboy fantasy, clearly youre ignorant.

It does mean he hasnt moved on, because he kills people to spite Bruce because hes become what Bruce refuses to be, its like saying scre you Bruce to his no kill rule.

You and the other users who dont understand Jason are the best trolls here, you are clearly arrogant to talk down to people.

Even dumb monkeys would understand Jasons character better than you.

He has studied the character, he has said he read a lot of Jason Todd comics, just like me.

Summaries on wikia give out the most important defining events that happen in the comic.

Go find it yourself on DC wikia.

He would know the character as he understands the character better than you.

He read the summaries stating the most imprtant parts of the story, thats good enough.

Jason never said he got over what happened ever, and he never said anything about doing so after that fight. Bruce loves all the kids hes raised but Jason has too much hatred inside, to get over what happened.

He has gave evidence, you just ignored it, you have no evidence.

You dont comprehend the character of Jason.

Actually they dont contradict what he said, they fit what he says.

Hes shown disdain to nightwings suits, Roy himself on the airplane, doesnt get along with kyle rayner, etc.

Hate means he despise, dislikes a lot, do you need a dictionary?

He doesnt need to say he hates them, he shows it on his face like when he saw nightwings old suits.

prove that Jason is telling the truth.

it doesnt matter, he read the summaries with the most important points of the story thats good enough and you still have no evidence.

Hes proved it a lot, given the amount of grief Jason has given the batfamily over the years, if Jason doesnt hate everyone, then his return to life is meaningless.

the "evidence" you give is faulty and proves JasonTodd11 is right.

when you have evidence other than your word, feel free to show it.

once again your arrogant talking down to people like your king or something.

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#120 Posted by dngn4774 (3504 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: I think there might be a problem with your browser. None of your responses are showing up and I doubt you'd be quoting someone who was arguing with you.

#121 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13632 posts) - - Show Bio

@dngn4774 said:

@avenging_x_bolt: I think there might be a problem with your browser. None of your responses are showing up and I doubt you'd be quoting someone who was arguing with you.

i always put my answers to large posts in quotes rather than hitting the reply button. it makes it easier to address multiple points

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#122 Posted by End_Boss (735 posts) - - Show Bio

Haha, Jason Todd threads. Constant sources of amusement on CV.

#124 Posted by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

@jasontodd11 @jasontodd12 : @I am going to ask this once, you are not part of this conversation, and I would prefer if you would stop answering any posts that I make. I will not speak to you, and I will appreciate it if you would not reply to me. You can post on the forum all you like, and continue your conversations with others who respond to you, but I politely ask that you do not reply to me anymore.

#125 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13632 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman250: I am not a troll you are the troll by trying to force people into believing your fanboy wish that Jason would redeem himself, when its currently impossible for him to redeem himself when hes to full of rage, anger and hatred. And I dont know what you are talking about, multiple accounts... its impossible to make multiple accounts, im a different person from whoever you are talking about.

@wessaari: like jman250 you are making a bogus idea that im the same person of whoever you are talking about, that is trolling and you need to provide evidence if you dont have anything then stop trolling me. And Im glad we settled that Jason hasnt changed at all, we are all in agreement now, I knew i was right.

@thejman250: A Troll is someone deliberately starting arguements and is insulting people, and I dont see anyone else except a few of you trolling a couple other users by trying to force your fanboy imaginations/delusions on them as well as me. Jason has not made amends and is unlikely to do so in the future and nothing has changed between them as they will never make peace between each other. And its not a surprise that Dick is a jerk to Jason, he hated Jason for replacing him as Robin.

@wessaari said:

@thejman250: well you know, I dont think it is really over with. i think for the most part, Jason has let go a lot of his anger, and during his time within his mind, he realizes that he had a lot to do with his current predicament. I don't like the idea that Jason needs to be Wingman, or that it is only with Bruce that he can be redeemed. I love that they had that moment together, and to know that Jason doesn't necessarily hate Bruce anymore offers new stories to tell which I think will be great, but Bruce isn't perfect, and i dont see Jason stopping what he is doing. I see him more enlightened, and more aware that the Bat-family isn't an enemy. I would love to see more interaction between him and Tim, and maybe some conflict with Dick in the future, but for the most part he really isn't an integral part of the Bat-fam. I think he might be considered an ally, as he has helped out in a long list of occasions, but he does still kill, he does things his own way, and for Jason to be an Outlaw is the best thing he can be. I would like to see a real Red Hood and Batman team up, which we might see in B&R numba 20 that is coming in May.

I feel that the Outlaws are going to have a mindset like; ok we had that little side step, now it is time to go back to work. And that may be where Jason's past will come back, as the solicits show that he had a history with the League of Assassins. So the future looks to be very interesting.

Ya, I feel that Dick held Jason to a really high standard, and when he came back with a vengeance, Dick really wasn't sympathetic, and neither was Babs or Damian. I really don't see the Babs Jason friendship anytime in the future, and even though Damian is dead, they did share some adventures together as Wingman and Redbird, which I didn't particularly care for, but still happened. With Dick going to Chicago, Damian dead, and Babs really in her own world ( I think that DOTF really hit her hard, and her trust with Bruce) the family really is too broken to judge Jason at the moment as a whole. On an individual level, I don't think Dick will like it that much if Jason teamed up with Bruce as Red Hood, Babs really wouldn't like it, but I think Tim would be supportive, though he is off with the Titans, and rarely hangs with the Bat-Clan ( which bums me out). So it really is up in the air as to how the whole family will feel, as the family is pretty broken at this point in time.

I read the DC Presents, and truly felt that the writer didn't necessarily grasp the new 52 Roy. I mean he seemed so cold, and Jason seemed so much like Roy. I felt they were really switched, and I just couldn't get into the plot. I am glad that Roy finally got a spotlight but it wasn't my taste.

Jason will never let go of his anger, no evidence to the contrary and its not his fault for dying at Jokers hands. The Batfamily will always be Jasons enemy because he believes none of them cared when he died and that they forgot him. Tim and Jason hate each other, so its very unlikely of more interactions between them, as far as the batfamily is concerned Jason is not an ally. Jason will eventually ditch Roy and starfire and go back to being solo.

@avenging_x_bolt: Well you are one of the few trying to force your fanboy dream on people like me that Jason is "redeeming" himself, when in reality, Jason still hates the batfamily, and when he gets time, intends to punish them for not caring when he died and forgetting about him.

how the hell am i trying to force anything on you? i gave you my opinion the matter and thats it. get your head out of you ass.

Online
#126 Posted by JasonTodd63 (3 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: You keep saying "Jason is redeeming himself", "Jason is redeeming himself", without providing any evidence to support your statement, and you keep on like this to JasonTodd12 and the other Jasons, that you got evidence when you dont and all it proves is that you are trying to force your fanboy dream on them, that is definitely trolling. Provide undeniable evidence, otherwise stop harassing them.

#127 Posted by The_Tree (7951 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL, so many accounts for the same guy.

#128 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13632 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: You keep saying "Jason is redeeming himself", "Jason is redeeming himself", without providing any evidence to support your statement, and you keep on like this to JasonTodd12 and the other Jasons, that you got evidence when you dont and all it proves is that you are trying to force your fanboy dream on them, that is definitely trolling. Provide undeniable evidence, otherwise stop harassing them.

lol, its cute that you think im dumb enough not to know that you're all the same person. also, i said that i didnt care enough to argue about Jason and was called a fanboy. im not going to take that shi$ lying down. expect to hear from me everyday. in EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOUR ACCOUNTS. : )

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#129 Posted by xtremekidx (576 posts) - - Show Bio

the concept started a bit weak but honestly,i see a lot of character growth with the outlaws...i mean we see how he interacts with these guys who he feels a bit more comfortable with as compared to the bat-family...

#130 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13632 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: You keep saying "Jason is redeeming himself", "Jason is redeeming himself", without providing any evidence to support your statement, and you keep on like this to JasonTodd12 and the other Jasons, that you got evidence when you dont and all it proves is that you are trying to force your fanboy dream on them, that is definitely trolling. Provide undeniable evidence, otherwise stop harassing them.

so you wouldnt call aiding the Bat-family on multiple occasions (including joining Batman Inc as Wingman), aiding Starfire and Arsenal in their pursuits redemption, as opposed to not acting like a whiny prick and trying to kill them every other day? yeah, why would anyone see that as redemption

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#131 Edited by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@jasontodd12 said:

@thejman250: I am not a troll you are the troll by trying to force people into believing your fanboy wish that Jason would redeem himself, when its currently impossible for him to redeem himself when hes to full of rage, anger and hatred. And I dont know what you are talking about, multiple accounts... its impossible to make multiple accounts, im a different person from whoever you are talking about.

@wessaari: like jman250 you are making a bogus idea that im the same person of whoever you are talking about, that is trolling and you need to provide evidence if you dont have anything then stop trolling me. And Im glad we settled that Jason hasnt changed at all, we are all in agreement now, I knew i was right.

@thejman250: A Troll is someone deliberately starting arguements and is insulting people, and I dont see anyone else except a few of you trolling a couple other users by trying to force your fanboy imaginations/delusions on them as well as me. Jason has not made amends and is unlikely to do so in the future and nothing has changed between them as they will never make peace between each other. And its not a surprise that Dick is a jerk to Jason, he hated Jason for replacing him as Robin.

@wessaari said:

@thejman250: well you know, I dont think it is really over with. i think for the most part, Jason has let go a lot of his anger, and during his time within his mind, he realizes that he had a lot to do with his current predicament. I don't like the idea that Jason needs to be Wingman, or that it is only with Bruce that he can be redeemed. I love that they had that moment together, and to know that Jason doesn't necessarily hate Bruce anymore offers new stories to tell which I think will be great, but Bruce isn't perfect, and i dont see Jason stopping what he is doing. I see him more enlightened, and more aware that the Bat-family isn't an enemy. I would love to see more interaction between him and Tim, and maybe some conflict with Dick in the future, but for the most part he really isn't an integral part of the Bat-fam. I think he might be considered an ally, as he has helped out in a long list of occasions, but he does still kill, he does things his own way, and for Jason to be an Outlaw is the best thing he can be. I would like to see a real Red Hood and Batman team up, which we might see in B&R numba 20 that is coming in May.

I feel that the Outlaws are going to have a mindset like; ok we had that little side step, now it is time to go back to work. And that may be where Jason's past will come back, as the solicits show that he had a history with the League of Assassins. So the future looks to be very interesting.

Ya, I feel that Dick held Jason to a really high standard, and when he came back with a vengeance, Dick really wasn't sympathetic, and neither was Babs or Damian. I really don't see the Babs Jason friendship anytime in the future, and even though Damian is dead, they did share some adventures together as Wingman and Redbird, which I didn't particularly care for, but still happened. With Dick going to Chicago, Damian dead, and Babs really in her own world ( I think that DOTF really hit her hard, and her trust with Bruce) the family really is too broken to judge Jason at the moment as a whole. On an individual level, I don't think Dick will like it that much if Jason teamed up with Bruce as Red Hood, Babs really wouldn't like it, but I think Tim would be supportive, though he is off with the Titans, and rarely hangs with the Bat-Clan ( which bums me out). So it really is up in the air as to how the whole family will feel, as the family is pretty broken at this point in time.

I read the DC Presents, and truly felt that the writer didn't necessarily grasp the new 52 Roy. I mean he seemed so cold, and Jason seemed so much like Roy. I felt they were really switched, and I just couldn't get into the plot. I am glad that Roy finally got a spotlight but it wasn't my taste.

Jason will never let go of his anger, no evidence to the contrary and its not his fault for dying at Jokers hands. The Batfamily will always be Jasons enemy because he believes none of them cared when he died and that they forgot him. Tim and Jason hate each other, so its very unlikely of more interactions between them, as far as the batfamily is concerned Jason is not an ally. Jason will eventually ditch Roy and starfire and go back to being solo.

@avenging_x_bolt: Well you are one of the few trying to force your fanboy dream on people like me that Jason is "redeeming" himself, when in reality, Jason still hates the batfamily, and when he gets time, intends to punish them for not caring when he died and forgetting about him.

- Please stop quoting me, i've had enough of your drivel.

EDIT:

- Would there happen to be an ignore feature on this site?

#132 Posted by daredevil21134 (12645 posts) - - Show Bio

So much arguing.lol

#133 Posted by daredevil21134 (12645 posts) - - Show Bio

I still think he needs his own series

#134 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@thejman250: well you know, I dont think it is really over with. i think for the most part, Jason has let go a lot of his anger, and during his time within his mind, he realizes that he had a lot to do with his current predicament. I don't like the idea that Jason needs to be Wingman, or that it is only with Bruce that he can be redeemed. I love that they had that moment together, and to know that Jason doesn't necessarily hate Bruce anymore offers new stories to tell which I think will be great, but Bruce isn't perfect, and i dont see Jason stopping what he is doing. I see him more enlightened, and more aware that the Bat-family isn't an enemy. I would love to see more interaction between him and Tim, and maybe some conflict with Dick in the future, but for the most part he really isn't an integral part of the Bat-fam. I think he might be considered an ally, as he has helped out in a long list of occasions, but he does still kill, he does things his own way, and for Jason to be an Outlaw is the best thing he can be. I would like to see a real Red Hood and Batman team up, which we might see in B&R numba 20 that is coming in May.

I feel that the Outlaws are going to have a mindset like; ok we had that little side step, now it is time to go back to work. And that may be where Jason's past will come back, as the solicits show that he had a history with the League of Assassins. So the future looks to be very interesting.

Ya, I feel that Dick held Jason to a really high standard, and when he came back with a vengeance, Dick really wasn't sympathetic, and neither was Babs or Damian. I really don't see the Babs Jason friendship anytime in the future, and even though Damian is dead, they did share some adventures together as Wingman and Redbird, which I didn't particularly care for, but still happened. With Dick going to Chicago, Damian dead, and Babs really in her own world ( I think that DOTF really hit her hard, and her trust with Bruce) the family really is too broken to judge Jason at the moment as a whole. On an individual level, I don't think Dick will like it that much if Jason teamed up with Bruce as Red Hood, Babs really wouldn't like it, but I think Tim would be supportive, though he is off with the Titans, and rarely hangs with the Bat-Clan ( which bums me out). So it really is up in the air as to how the whole family will feel, as the family is pretty broken at this point in time.

I read the DC Presents, and truly felt that the writer didn't necessarily grasp the new 52 Roy. I mean he seemed so cold, and Jason seemed so much like Roy. I felt they were really switched, and I just couldn't get into the plot. I am glad that Roy finally got a spotlight but it wasn't my taste.

- I think Jason being wingman was more of a Grant Morrison thing, and Lobdell simply used that. I'm sure that he doesn't need to be Wingman, but it's somewhat interesting.

- Well, in my opinion, Bruce is the only person that he needs to be redeemed with as he doesn't have to answer to Richard and Alfred already told him that he's still a member of the family.

- I doubt Jason will stop what he's doing, and i don't think he should have to either. Who is Bruce to tell him how to live? He certainly isn't the father who avenged his child (now or then). He clearly didn't have the balls to do what was necessary and as far as i'm concerned, he's lost any say as to what Jason should or should not do. With all of that being said, Bruce already gave Jason his blessings and admitted that although he disliked his methods, Jason brought results and got the job done. He also said that Jasond deserved it. Moreover, Jason in the New 52 is a more moderated version of his pre New 52 self. He wen't from shooting down criminals left and right, to only killing those who he thought deserved to be killed, to only killing when necessary (killing suzie after giving her a chance to walk away, and not killing crux at all) and avoiding killing in gotham for respect (Jason still respecting Bruce, imagine that!) for Bruce. Thus, i'm pretty sure that he'll keep the killing to a minimum when around Bruce.

- Yea, i think he's best with the outlaws as well however, he'll probably be helping out Bruce more as in Batman and Red Hood #20.

- I also think things with Richard need to be straightened out and that would possibly allow for some Richard and Starfire explanation

- I agree, the future issues look interesting.

- I get the feeling that Richard and Jason never really got along and his coming back didn't help that either. Barbra is stuck up as always, and Damian is simply a rude ass. The only person that Damian was actually (somewhat) nice to was Richard, and that was because he respected richard.

- I agree that the family is somewhat spread out however, Richard and Barbra are both dealing with big things from their past at the moment. Richard and tim didn't seem to object much to Jason being in the cave in Inc, so i doubt that it will be that big of an issue. Sure Richard and Jason won't be best friends, but i think they'll manage. Tim does seem to spend more time with the Titans instead of the family in his own book though.

- Interesting, I still have to read that issue of DC Presents.

#135 Posted by End_Boss (735 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm starting to develop a theory that the users Jason Todd11, 12 and 13 are in fact the same person. The theory in no way makes these threads less entertaining.

#136 Posted by dngn4774 (3504 posts) - - Show Bio

@end_boss said:

I'm starting to develop a theory that the users Jason Todd11, 12 and 13 are in fact the same person. The theory in no way makes these threads less entertaining.

You brilliant sleuth! I was willing to give 3todds the benefit of the doubt before he began rambling with the other two profiles. Then he says how the alt accounts are the only other ones who make any sense! LMFAO! He's only slightly less delusional than Two-Face, since his split personalities never argue with each other. I wonder which profile he'll pick to quote me with this time.

#138 Posted by dngn4774 (3504 posts) - - Show Bio

@jasontodd99: And a fourth identity emerges! You know how I know you're related to the other three? Because your profile was just created today you have 0 followers and only 3 comments, all of which are only discussing the rumors of your alt accounts.

#139 Posted by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_tree: There needs to be a way to block him with his URL, that way he can't sign in on his computer. I am not much of a computer person, but I really think that its possible

#140 Posted by thejman250 (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@the_tree: There needs to be a way to block him with his URL, that way he can't sign in on his computer. I am not much of a computer person, but I really think that its possible

- Or they could just have an ignore feature.

#141 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (13632 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: You have no evidence that he is the same person as the other Jasons... provide proof that its the same person, otherwise get back to the topic, as everyone seems to drift way off topic, as its suppose to be about Is Jason better off alone or with a team/gf.

@avenging_x_bolt said:

@jasontodd63 said:

@avenging_x_bolt: You keep saying "Jason is redeeming himself", "Jason is redeeming himself", without providing any evidence to support your statement, and you keep on like this to JasonTodd12 and the other Jasons, that you got evidence when you dont and all it proves is that you are trying to force your fanboy dream on them, that is definitely trolling. Provide undeniable evidence, otherwise stop harassing them.

so you wouldnt call aiding the Bat-family on multiple occasions (including joining Batman Inc as Wingman), aiding Starfire and Arsenal in their pursuits redemption, as opposed to not acting like a whiny prick and trying to kill them every other day? yeah, why would anyone see that as redemption

Everyone knows that Jason didnt help the Bat family out out of the goodness of his heart, the hero Jason was died years ago by Jokers hands. And he helps out due to wanting to kill Bad guys to spite Bruce. And its not whining if you were actually murdered and came back to the life and found out your murderer still lives, I bet you'll do the same thing Jason does try and punish the person you were close to for not avenging your death, getting murdered is a VERY BIG thing to get angry about and I dont blame Jason for his actions as the Red Hood, trying to kill the Bat family and punish Bruce, as he believes no one cared about him.

of course you dont have a problem as it seems to be the focus of your various extremely short masturbatory fantasies.

@end_boss: Its impossible to make multiple accounts, provide proof they are the same person, and anyway a lot of people can have the same opinion on the same character.

i have two accounts. a regular one and one for rp-ing s do many people on the site, s its obviously not impossible.

@dngn4774: Again evidence that this is the same person,

and if it is the same person why would he refer to himself as, he, or them or whatever? Makes no sense.

LMFAO. maybe to try and keep people from knowing that they're really the same person.

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#142 Edited by daredevil21134 (12645 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@the_tree: There needs to be a way to block him with his URL, that way he can't sign in on his computer. I am not much of a computer person, but I really think that its possible

- Or they could just have an ignore feature.

lol

#143 Posted by End_Boss (735 posts) - - Show Bio

@end_boss: Its impossible to make multiple accounts, provide proof they are the same person, and anyway a lot of people can have the same opinion on the same character.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/bd83ccf9b808f21242841e9dddc905fc/tumblr_mkychaZAMy1s83nxpo1_400.gif

#144 Posted by daredevil21134 (12645 posts) - - Show Bio

lol

#146 Posted by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari: Hey! sorry to bother you, but you cant ban someone who hasnt done anything wrong, the other people with the right opinions on Jason did nothing wrong, they obeyed the rules of Comic Vine, you seem to disobey the rules by insulting those people.

@avenging_x_bolt: you should be banned for disobeying the rules of comic vine by harassing the other people named Jason Todd, for insulting them and making a sexual remark/attack on them, thats basically three rules you broke.

Anyway, a single person having what? about four or five accounts thats just ludacrous and ridiculous and unbelievable.

And thats especially ridiculous that someone with multiple accounts refer to him or herself as he, her or whatever, who does that?, And if it is them why would they deny that they are the same person on those accounts. Makes no sense.

@end_boss: LOL.

this is freaking sad dude, and I have asked you to stop responding to my posts, and I have stopped responding to you and your multiple accounts in return. That is harassment, and it isn't hard to ban someone with their IP address, and since you keep harassing people after I have asked you to stop, especially after you have been banned before, you will never be able to access the site if you continue with your trolling. you continue with this crap after insulting multpiple users, and it is beyond childish at this point. I have asked you to stop, please respect that, and no one here is stupid enough to believe that all of this multiple accounts surfacing out of nowhere are individual people.

There will be a mod here, and I will ask that you be removed if you continue.

They have done it before, they will do it again.

#147 Posted by JasonTodd72 (3 posts) - - Show Bio

hmmm... so people are harassing the different Jason Todds by saying they are the same person when they have no evidence altogether, given that its not uncommon for people to have the same opinion, or similar names on a website. And those people like Wessaari keep saying those Jasons are harassing people when they are not, they are merely answering what other people have been asking or responding to those other peoples trolling and their messed up fanboy dreams of a "so-called Jason todd redemption". Those Jasons havent even insulted people on this forums, and its actually (and obviously) coincidence these Jasons have the similar but not the same opinions on the actual Jason Todd character and have joined comic vine recently.

Anyway these people have taken the whole topic off course, we should get back to what the topic is about.

#148 Posted by End_Boss (735 posts) - - Show Bio

... we should get back to what the topic is about.

Exactly. That being said, what are the odds on this being another of the ur-Jason's fracturing personalities?

#149 Posted by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

hmmm... so people are harassing the different Jason Todds by saying they are the same person when they have no evidence altogether, given that its not uncommon for people to have the same opinion, or similar names on a website. And those people like Wessaari keep saying those Jasons are harassing people when they are not, they are merely answering what other people have been asking or responding to those other peoples trolling and their messed up fanboy dreams of a "so-called Jason todd redemption". Those Jasons havent even insulted people on this forums, and its actually (and obviously) coincidence these Jasons have the similar but not the same opinions on the actual Jason Todd character and have joined comic vine recently.

Anyway these people have taken the whole topic off course, we should get back to what the topic is about.

You know, if you are going to call someone out, please have the common courtesy to actually have the courage to truly call someone out. I believe, when I called you on the crap that you are pulling, I made sure you knew. I have a feeling that what I said actually hit, so you didn't reply and hoped I wouldn't see. I have no problem with your opinion, though I disagree with it. What I have a problem with, is your rudeness and unwillingness to actually participate in a reasonable conversation, instead of saying that everyone is right besides you. That is trolling, and while the overwhelming consensus of people not using multiple accounts disagrees with you, I don't see anyone that is so blatantly obnoxious about than you and your multiple accounts. No one here is saying that you shouldn't believe what you believe, just that you actually see past your own opinions instead of disrespecting everyone elses. I am glad that you want to get back on the subject, and I truly hope that you stop the nonsense before drastic measures are taken, and we wouldn't be able to hear from you. Everyone deserves their opinon, though no one deserves the disrespect that you have shown to others. That goes for anyone that has been rude to you as well, but know that you have prodded those people into reacting the way they are.

Get back to the topic, everyone stop with a disrespectful crap, which mainly pertains to the multitudes of jason todd users or should I say, user. And actually make conversation of what is happening in the freaking comics.

#150 Posted by daredevil21134 (12645 posts) - - Show Bio

alone

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