SLUTS

Because of what I've been hearing in here, I think it's time we take a seriously look at ourselves and how we view women and sexuality...

I have heard/read the new Cat Woman and Starfire described as or called sluts... Is this accurate? Is it FAIR? I haven't heard the following:

"Batman is a slut."

"Roy Harper acts like a slut."

"The new Jason Todd is a slut."

If Cat Woman and Starfire are sluts, aren't the men they had sex with sluts as well?

One of the most well known stories from the Bible, is the story of the adulteress who was brought before Jesus for judgement. The priests (Yes, many of them were priests) wanted Jesus to have the woman stoned. They were trying to trap Jesus into making an unpopular decision. If He said to stone her, then he would be unpopular with the people, however, if he did NOT have her stoned, then he could be accused of not obeying the law, as their law called for adulterers to be stoned. Note, I said 'adulterers' and not 'adulteresses.'

Now, most of us know that Jesus response was, "He among you who is without sin, let him cast the first stone." And, beginning with the older men, all her accusers left....

So, how is this relevant? Well, it's what is NOT being told that is significant to the Cat Woman and Starfire slut issue....

The Adulteress was brought before Jesus because she committed adultery... So, here's a question.

DID SHE COMMIT ADULTERY ALONE? Was she by herself in this act?

Um...No, she wasn't brought before Jesus for masturbation... The accusation was Adultery, an act committed by/between two or more people... That being the case, WHERE WAS THE MAN THAT SHE COMMITTED ADULTERY WITH??? Did he simply escape somehow? No... Not really possible. You see, the Law (by which this woman was being accused) required that there be TWO WITNESSES... So, there had to be at least two people who SAW / WATCHED the act. They KNEW the identity of the two people they were watching... So again, I ask; WHERE was the man? Did he not ALSO commit adultery?

So, lets bring this back around to Cat Woman and Starfire...

If you have called Cat Woman a slut, or accused her of acting slutily, have you done the same for Batman? Was she a "slut" alone? I read the issue, Batman was very much involved in the act...Of his own free will...

How about Starfire? If she seemed like a slut to you, what did you think about Jason Todd? How about Roy Harper who KNEW before hand that it was going to be purely about sex... AND that she had recently been with Jason Todd...

So, let's think about men who might fall into the category of "slut."

Hercules - He's a MARRIED MAN and it seems he's slept with just about every female superhero in the Marvel universe, and at least one of the male superheroes (Northstar.) He's CHEATING ON HIS WIFE with GOBS of women... Is he a slut?

Wolverine - Perhaps not nearly as 'active' as Hercules but he gets around. He recently learned that he had a number of children he didn't know about... He's been with a number of Superheroines; Black Cat, Squirrel Girl, Domino, Mariko, Lady Deathstrike (before she was lady Death Strike), and lots of others...

Fandral - Pretty much a textbook definition for slut.

Tony Stark - If Tony Stark isn't a slut, then no one is...

There are many more I could add to the list, but the point is made... If we're going to call the women of the comic universe sluts, then let's please give equal time to the men....

Yes, too all of them.

Okay, sure. Tony Stark's a total slut. We can all agree on that.

I don't agree with calling Starfire and Catwoman sluts. I would define Starfire as promiscuous, because slut is a downgrading term and generally refers to a prostitute. Neither of them are getting paid or doing it because they have to - they're doing it because they want to. While I'm definitely against Kori's 'denial' of her past life and Roy's sloppy seconds, it's the characters choice and, as long as she's not in a relationship, it's not breaking any rules.
 
This is just another reason why I think Roy is a total creep! He willingly accepted Jason's seconds! I mean, come on... Get your own!

@InnerVenom123 said:

Okay, sure. Tony Stark's a total slut. We can all agree on that.

This.

And Starfire was portrayed as a bit of a slut. Or at least loose morals.

Catwoman was not. Whoever is calling the DCnU Selina Kyle a slut needs to seriously reassess their comprehension of vocabulary.

whoa whoa when the hell did Wolverine have sex with Squirrel Girl????? that's just not right....

@The Dark Huntress said:

And Starfire was portrayed as a bit of a slut. Or at least loose morals.

Catwoman was not. Whoever is calling the DCnU Selina Kyle a slut needs to seriously reassess their comprehension of vocabulary.

Yep, this.

Great article by the way :)

@pikahyper said:

whoa whoa when the hell did Wolverine have sex with Squirrel Girl????? that's just not right....

He didn't, that anybody knows of. But she appeared in his "sexual fantasy room" or some such BS like that in an issue. Along with Mystique, Rogue, a few others.

@The Dark Huntress: ah I see, still pretty messed up...

Oh and I would categorize Tony Stark as a man whore, slut just doesn't cover it.

@The Dark Huntress said:

@pikahyper said:

whoa whoa when the hell did Wolverine have sex with Squirrel Girl????? that's just not right....

He didn't, that anybody knows of. But she appeared in his "sexual fantasy room" or some such BS like that in an issue. Along with Mystique, Rogue, a few others.

She appeared with other X-Women and the women of The New Avengers.

@pikahyper:

There were a few panels in New Avengers where they met after those she became the nanny of Cage's kid and it hinted that those two might had something going on in the past.

whoa whoa when the hell did Wolverine have sex with Squirrel Girl????? that's just not right....

@ComicMan24 said:

There were a few panels in New Avengers where they met after those she became the nanny of Cage's kid and it hinted that those two might had something going on in the past.

........seriously?

@The Dark Huntress: Hmm I just vaguely remember that panel, guess I read the comic and forgot.

@The Dark Huntress said:

@ComicMan24 said:

There were a few panels in New Avengers where they met after those she became the nanny of Cage's kid and it hinted that those two might had something going on in the past.

........seriously?

Yeah, it has been a while since the last time I saw so I could be wrong but from what I remember it was hinted.

@The Dark Huntress:

Here it is.

well that is disturbing, isn't she being written more like "cohesive" there? I seem to remember thinking she could possible be autistic with the way she was portrayed previously; mannerisms, speech, way she acted, etc.

edited to add:

and where is her sidekick squirrel? I always remember him being close by at all times.

Maybe they don't allow pets to be close to the baby :P And Wolverine has weird taste lol

@The Dark Huntress:

Here it is.

There are many double-standards in language, this is just one.  
 
How often do you hear the term Misandrist thrown around? Google Chrome doesn't even recognise it as a word. Misogyny, however, is recognised. Funny that.  

@ComicStooge said:

Bruce Wayne's a PLAYER not a slut.

sooo... What exactly is the difference?

@Doveland said:

I don't agree with calling Starfire and Catwoman sluts. I would define Starfire as promiscuous, because slut is a downgrading term and generally refers to a prostitute. Neither of them are getting paid or doing it because they have to - they're doing it because they want to. While I'm definitely against Kori's 'denial' of her past life and Roy's sloppy seconds, it's the characters choice and, as long as she's not in a relationship, it's not breaking any rules. This is just another reason why I think Roy is a total creep! He willingly accepted Jason's seconds! I mean, come on... Get your own!

I believe a "Whore" is paid for sex. Certainly a prostitute... But Slut has always meant promiscuous.. I don't like the term either, but that's basically what it has always meant. I wasn't really trying to focus on whether or not either Starfire or Cat Woman really WERE sluts, but rather, if one is going to call them sluts, then do the same for the men. If you feel you MUST judge the women, then judge the men by the same standards...

@The Dark Huntress said:

@ComicMan24 said:

There were a few panels in New Avengers where they met after those she became the nanny of Cage's kid and it hinted that those two might had something going on in the past.

........seriously?

Yep. He did. I'm no longer surprised with Wolverine or Hercules. It's no longer a question of "did he have sex with her" but rather "when?" Maybe it's his 'bad boy' persona. Maybe super women just go for short, hairy, and crude...

Actually, I can think of one heroine he hasn't slept with... She Hulk. He actually turned her down, and he turned her down because she had slept with Juggernaut... A definite case of the pot calling the kettle black...

@pikahyper: @ComicMan24:

She does have one particular side kick, and I remember reading that he came with her to New York but we've just not seen him lately... However, as we saw in this issue, she seems to have lots of squirrels handy when she needs them. If you haven't read this issue (New Avengers 15) you see a ..um.. herd? flock? a BUNCH of squirrels attacking a Nazi for her.

@ComicStooge said:

@Timandm: Sluts wear revealing clothing, Bruce Wayne wears suits and body armor.

Are you aware of the definition of a slut?

@ComicStooge said:

Bruce Wayne's a PLAYER not a slut.

And if you're serious and not sarcastic, this is an absolutely ridiculous double standard.

Dude sleeps his way through town and it's "oh my god, what a pimp" accompanied by pats on the back from all his friends. Girl does the same and it's "oh my god, what a slut" and she becomes a pariah. SMH.

@The Dark Huntress said:

@ComicStooge said:

@Timandm: Sluts wear revealing clothing, Bruce Wayne wears suits and body armor.

Are you aware of the definition of a slut?

I'm having a hard time believing he's serious... However, given the attitude in here, the reason I started this thread, it's possible he's completely serious...

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

There are many double-standards in language, this is just one. How often do you hear the term Misandrist thrown around? Google Chrome doesn't even recognise it as a word. Misogyny, however, is recognised. Funny that.

I was curious and had to check Regular Google has hits for Misandrist. Wikipedia even has a page for it. But your point is well made. It's a term most people don't know. But to be fair, women have had a lot more reasons to hate men (as a group) than men have had to hate women. And saying this will likely elicit a lot of bad responses, but I'll live dangerously for the moment.

• From a historical point of view, it hasn't been that long since women have even had the right to vote.
• It's only been in recent years that women have begun earning the same wages, for the same job, as men.
• The double standard (Which our friend comicstooge is doing a great job holding up) that men are players and women are sluts
• The world has been patriarchal since...well. Adam bit into the apple.

There's absolutely no disputing that women, as a group, have been oppressed thorughout history. So, yes, I can see the word Misogyny getting thrown around quite a bit.

But, the world is changing. Maybe we men will have lots of opportunities to start using Misandrist.

@Timandm said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@ComicStooge said:

@Timandm: Sluts wear revealing clothing, Bruce Wayne wears suits and body armor.

Are you aware of the definition of a slut?

I'm having a hard time believing he's serious... However, given the attitude in here, the reason I started this thread, it's possible he's completely serious...

It's entirely possible he isn't and I'm misreading the situation due to it being quarter of eight and me not having slept. In which case, CS, my apologies.

I really didn't know that comic book fan's where that against sex

@spiderbat87 said:

I really didn't know that comic book fan's where that against sex

Oh no, no, no. They're not against "sex" per se... They're just against 'women' having sex... I guess super heroes are supposed to all...um.. "go greek."

@spiderbat87 said:

I really didn't know that comic book fan's where that against sex

Oh no, no, no. They're not against "sex" per se... They're just against 'women' having sex... I guess super heroes are supposed to all...um.. "go greek."

yeah men can be sluts but because men are in charge it doesn't look so bad - that what you wanna hear?

@spiderbat87 said:

@Timandm said:

@spiderbat87 said:

I really didn't know that comic book fan's where that against sex

Oh no, no, no. They're not against "sex" per se... They're just against 'women' having sex... I guess super heroes are supposed to all...um.. "go greek."

I mean people have sex all the time in real life, its kind of how it works but every one is like "oh my god Karen Starr had sex with Mr Terrific, ho no Catwoman had sex with Batman, goodness me Starfire had sex with Jason and Roy" these things happen every day in life especially with teenagers so why cant that be shown in comics too?

Yep... Most of us are here because two people, somewhere in our past, had sex... You'd think it wouldn't be such a shocking thing...

@Chaos Burn said:

yeah men can be sluts but because men are in charge it doesn't look so bad - that what you wanna hear?

Is that what " I " want to hear? Um.. no.. I want to hear things like:

1. Hey, I just found a few thousand dollars lying here. Is this yours?
2. Hi, Tim. James Cameron. I'm making a new movie and I'd like you to star in it.
3. Sir, I've just read your manuscript and we want to publish your novel. Would a $100,000 be enough of a retainer for you to have a meeting with us about the details?
4. No, no, no, Tim. You stay at home and watch movies and read comic books all day. We'll take care of your classes for you...
5. Dad, I cleaned my room, did my homework, studied ahead for all of my classes, cleaned the car, and made dinner. Is there anything I can help you with before I start dinner?

It's nice of you to be so concerned about what I want to hear... Thanks.

yeah men can be sluts but because men are in charge it doesn't look so bad - that what you wanna hear?

@spiderbat87 said:

@Chaos Burn said:

yeah men can be sluts but because men are in charge it doesn't look so bad - that what you wanna hear?

Thats a big can of worms you just opened

I don't agree with it, might not even be true nowadays... but this whole thread opened the worm can

@spiderbat87 said:

I really didn't know that comic book fan's where that against sex

Oh no, no, no. They're not against "sex" per se... They're just against 'women' having sex... I guess super heroes are supposed to all...um.. "go greek."

how many people have Catwoman and Starfire been with?? 5 or 6 guys in a short amount of time?? That is nothing by todays standards

@The Devil Tiger: I think you might have missed the point I was trying to make...

This blog wasn't suggesting that Cat Woman or Starfire were sluts. Not at all..... I have to ask, did you actually read what I wrote? What you said is true... But THIS issue is about people who are calling women sluts for having sex, while ignoring the fact that men are having sex WITH those women... The whole, "Women are sluts and men are players" attitude...

@cattlebattle said:

how many people have Catwoman and Starfire been with?? 5 or 6 guys in a short amount of time?? That is nothing by todays standards

and yet, they're being called sluts... Sad...

Here's the reason that there is a double standard: pregnancy. Classically there was little that could be done to prevent pregnancy and it was absolutely up to the woman to be very careful about who she had sex with becuase it was a very real possibility that she could have a child. It's not 'fair' that the man has less responsibility but there is one difference: the an can get up and physically run away. He could completely disappear and the woman might be left alone with the child (since she has to have it inside her for three seasons). It is not 'fair' but it's also not fair for a thief to steal stuff out of your car. You lock your car and you hide all your good stuff, though don't you? Nowadays things are vastly different and 'unwanted' pregnancy is easier to mitigate, but I think the essence of the same dynamic is in place. The women have to be choosy becuase the men will usually not be.

@The Devil Tiger: @The Devil Tiger:

But what I was trying to say, it's that many women call other sexually more active women slut to make them appear as "virtuous" one. They only enforce a stereotype and, after that, they find themselve ranting about being oppressed...:°(

Too true...

Worlds is not really fair, though, because men who are cheating are utterly despised, but women who cheat ? Uh, Nine time out of ten, they just move on.

ABSOLUTELY true.. A man who cheats, is a cheating BASTARD! He's evil. He's wrong. A woman who cheats, is a "Misunderstood or Under appreciated wife..." I remember, long ago, talking to a young woman about this "new t.v. show" that she loved, Desperate Housewives. One of the housewives was having an affair with the young gardener. But it seems it was okay because her husband didn't appreciate her. To him, so the young woman explained, she was just a trophy wife. And all he did for her was provide an incredibly nice home, new expensive cars, lots of jewelry, and what not... So, it was okay for her to cheat because she was just a trophy wife... I've had other conversations with women who cheat on their husbands (not with me mind you) because their husbands (and I'm not making this up) apparently aren't all that interested in sex anymore. I believe the phrase is, "My husband doesn't touch me anymore." It seems this really does happen. So, the women find sex elsewhere. Now, I personally have no problem with that. I think if one partner has no desire for sex and doesn't want to meet the needs/desires of the other, then I can understand why they would look elsewhere. HOWEVER, there's a double standard. Women who cheat because their husbands no longer want sex, are "unloved or unfulfilled" wives. Men who cheat because their wives no longer want sex are, "Cheating Bastards."

@RazzaTazz said:

I hadn't thought of that, in terms of "it takes two". Perhaps the depiction of Batman sort of resisting the advances is intended to make him seem not like someone that is a willing participant, but is rather seduced every time. This would make him less promiscuous, though it is a fine line seeing as he routinely seeks out Selina.

Yep, he definitely seems to have that whole, 'passive aggressive' thing going on...

@EdBlank said:

Here's the reason that there is a double standard: pregnancy. Classically there was little that could be done to prevent pregnancy and it was absolutely up to the woman to be very careful about who she had sex with becuase it was a very real possibility that she could have a child. It's not 'fair' that the man has less responsibility but there is one difference: the an can get up and physically run away. He could completely disappear and the woman might be left alone with the child (since she has to have it inside her for three seasons). It is not 'fair' but it's also not fair for a thief to steal stuff out of your car. You lock your car and you hide all your good stuff, though don't you? Nowadays things are vastly different and 'unwanted' pregnancy is easier to mitigate, but I think the essence of the same dynamic is in place. The women have to be choosy becuase the men will usually not be.

Oh wait... An intelligent and well thought out response? I'm... I haven't had coffee yet. I'll have to get back to you on that... LOL!

Actually, this makes me think of the Novel Moll Flanders. Have you read it? It's another novel similar to Sense and Sensibility or Emma in that, you see women (mothers often) conspiring to get their daughters married to a rich young gentleman. And those who don't study history, think of these women as low class gold diggers... But the world was different then. THAT was how women ensured themselves of a secure future. Women, in that era, couldn't own land, did not go to college, and worked only if menial labor; maids, servers, hookers....

The world is very different now, but it has taken a LONG time to get to where we are today... On a historical timescale women have only recently gained the right to own land, to work, to vote, etc... And while women's rights have come a very long way, some of the perceptions of what women are and are not supposed to be, have not progressed quite as fast...

@Timandm said:

Because of what I've been hearing in here, I think it's time we take a seriously look at ourselves and how we view women and sexuality...

I have heard/read the new Cat Woman and Starfire described as or called sluts... Is this accurate? Is it FAIR? I haven't heard the following:

"Batman is a slut."

"Roy Harper acts like a slut."

"The new Jason Todd is a slut."

If Cat Woman and Starfire are sluts, aren't the men they had sex with sluts as well?

One of the most well known stories from the Bible, is the story of the adulteress who was brought before Jesus for judgement. The priests (Yes, many of them were priests) wanted Jesus to have the woman stoned. They were trying to trap Jesus into making an unpopular decision. If He said to stone her, then he would be unpopular with the people, however, if he did NOT have her stoned, then he could be accused of not obeying the law, as their law called for adulterers to be stoned. Note, I said 'adulterers' and not 'adulteresses.'

Now, most of us know that Jesus response was, "He among you who is without sin, let him cast the first stone." And, beginning with the older men, all her accusers left....

So, how is this relevant? Well, it's what is NOT being told that is significant to the Cat Woman and Starfire slut issue....

The Adulteress was brought before Jesus because she committed adultery... So, here's a question.

DID SHE COMMIT ADULTERY ALONE? Was she by herself in this act?

Um...No, she wasn't brought before Jesus for masturbation... The accusation was Adultery, an act committed by/between two or more people... That being the case, WHERE WAS THE MAN THAT SHE COMMITTED ADULTERY WITH??? Did he simply escape somehow? No... Not really possible. You see, the Law (by which this woman was being accused) required that there be TWO WITNESSES... So, there had to be at least two people who SAW / WATCHED the act. They KNEW the identity of the two people they were watching... So again, I ask; WHERE was the man? Did he not ALSO commit adultery?

So, lets bring this back around to Cat Woman and Starfire...

If you have called Cat Woman a slut, or accused her of acting slutily, have you done the same for Batman? Was she a "slut" alone? I read the issue, Batman was very much involved in the act...Of his own free will...

How about Starfire? If she seemed like a slut to you, what did you think about Jason Todd? How about Roy Harper who KNEW before hand that it was going to be purely about sex... AND that she had recently been with Jason Todd...

So, let's think about men who might fall into the category of "slut."

Hercules - He's a MARRIED MAN and it seems he's slept with just about every female superhero in the Marvel universe, and at least one of the male superheroes (Northstar.) He's CHEATING ON HIS WIFE with GOBS of women... Is he a slut?

Wolverine - Perhaps not nearly as 'active' as Hercules but he gets around. He recently learned that he had a number of children he didn't know about... He's been with a number of Superheroines; Black Cat, Squirrel Girl, Domino, Mariko, Lady Deathstrike (before she was lady Death Strike), and lots of others...

Fandral - Pretty much a textbook definition for slut.

Tony Stark - If Tony Stark isn't a slut, then no one is...

There are many more I could add to the list, but the point is made... If we're going to call the women of the comic universe sluts, then let's please give equal time to the men....

you've never heard anyone call Batman a slut?

@Avenging-X-Bolt: No... I haven't... and every single time, without exception, I hear someone calling the new Cat Woman a slut, they NEVER call Batman a slut as well...

Or, look at it this way... I bet you could easily find four or five threads in here saying that the New Cat Woman is a slut or acts slutty... Something along those lines... But can you find a single thread talking about the new Batman being a slut?

@RazzaTazz said:

I hadn't thought of that, in terms of "it takes two". Perhaps the depiction of Batman sort of resisting the advances is intended to make him seem not like someone that is a willing participant, but is rather seduced every time. This would make him less promiscuous, though it is a fine line seeing as he routinely seeks out Selina.

Yep, he definitely seems to have that whole, 'passive aggressive' thing going on...

@EdBlank said:

Here's the reason that there is a double standard: pregnancy. Classically there was little that could be done to prevent pregnancy and it was absolutely up to the woman to be very careful about who she had sex with becuase it was a very real possibility that she could have a child. It's not 'fair' that the man has less responsibility but there is one difference: the an can get up and physically run away. He could completely disappear and the woman might be left alone with the child (since she has to have it inside her for three seasons). It is not 'fair' but it's also not fair for a thief to steal stuff out of your car. You lock your car and you hide all your good stuff, though don't you? Nowadays things are vastly different and 'unwanted' pregnancy is easier to mitigate, but I think the essence of the same dynamic is in place. The women have to be choosy becuase the men will usually not be.

Oh wait... An intelligent and well thought out response? I'm... I haven't had coffee yet. I'll have to get back to you on that... LOL!

Actually, this makes me think of the Novel Moll Flanders. Have you read it? It's another novel similar to Sense and Sensibility or Emma in that, you see women (mothers often) conspiring to get their daughters married to a rich young gentleman. And those who don't study history, think of these women as low class gold diggers... But the world was different then. THAT was how women ensured themselves of a secure future. Women, in that era, couldn't own land, did not go to college, and worked only if menial labor; maids, servers, hookers....

The world is very different now, but it has taken a LONG time to get to where we are today... On a historical timescale women have only recently gained the right to own land, to work, to vote, etc... And while women's rights have come a very long way, some of the perceptions of what women are and are not supposed to be, have not progressed quite as fast...

@The Devil Tiger: Daredevil is NOT a slut! He's a 'player.' Um.. I mean NINJA... LOL! Actually, I have no idea. Is Daredevil a slut? I've only recently started reading Daredevil again. Back when I used to read Daredevil, he was in love with Electra. I have no idea what he's been up to since...

Hmmm... "Male slut list." Maybe that's a good idea for another thread... Maybe this could be a series...

@spiderbat87 said:

@Timandm said:

@spiderbat87 said:

I really didn't know that comic book fan's where that against sex

Oh no, no, no. They're not against "sex" per se... They're just against 'women' having sex... I guess super heroes are supposed to all...um.. "go greek."

I mean people have sex all the time in real life, its kind of how it works but every one is like "oh my god Karen Starr had sex with Mr Terrific, ho no Catwoman had sex with Batman, goodness me Starfire had sex with Jason and Roy" these things happen every day in life especially with teenagers so why cant that be shown in comics too?

it's cuz he's black...........stupid racism........

also im going to call Mr. Terrific Mr T from now on......

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@spiderbat87 said:

@Timandm said:

@spiderbat87 said:

I really didn't know that comic book fan's where that against sex

Oh no, no, no. They're not against "sex" per se... They're just against 'women' having sex... I guess super heroes are supposed to all...um.. "go greek."

I mean people have sex all the time in real life, its kind of how it works but every one is like "oh my god Karen Starr had sex with Mr Terrific, ho no Catwoman had sex with Batman, goodness me Starfire had sex with Jason and Roy" these things happen every day in life especially with teenagers so why cant that be shown in comics too?

it's cuz he's black...........stupid racism........

also im going to call Mr. Terrific Mr T from now on......

Wait... Mr. Terrific 'turned' black? OMG! When did THAT happen???

@The Devil Tiger: Daredevil is NOT a slut! He's a 'player.' Um.. I mean NINJA... LOL! Actually, I have no idea. Is Daredevil a slut? I've only recently started reading Daredevil again. Back when I used to read Daredevil, he was in love with Electra. I have no idea what he's been up to since...

Hmmm... "Male slut list." Maybe that's a good idea for another thread... Maybe this could be a series...