Best Stuff In Comics This Week: 2-1-16

@feartheliving: I think the reason folks are complaining about Bor is because there's no reason for an Asgardian deity, or a monster made by Hela, to act like the left's view of Republicans/Libertarians. Why would Bor care about Midgard politics at all? Why would a construct of Hela care? They're taking a swipe at the people they don't like just because they can, and it looks stupid, childish, and hateful. Republicans aren't the trash that the folks on the far left like to think we are.

As for the kiss, I haven't seen any complaints about it. It's the strawman argument provided by the people who are complaining after being saved that's making people angry. It may make the author feel good, but they're alienating a portion of their fanbase in the meantime.

@brinkthemoviemyfavoritemovie: To be fair, Dan Slott's Amazing Spider-Man and practically any Deadpool book do the same thing. It's not a problem exclusive to Angela.

@brinkthemoviemyfavoritemovie: It's funny because the comic itself is probably not gonna last a year, not with the sales it's pulling. Even an obvious controversy baiting stunt like this wont help.

@spitfirepanda: I suppose, but I think it was just suppose to be a joke to show the reader how absurd he was speaking not what he was actually saying.

There kiss there were a few people mentioning it (I mainly wanted to give my thoughts on it as well though). As for the comment made by the people take it as a pot shot at the fans or just how some of the people acted just by the announcement that Sam was gonna be Cap and Jane was gonna be Thor before they even had a chance to write a single page, or just how some regular Joes in the Marvel Universe feel.

I feel like these things can be taken personally and it's your right to do so but nor is it all that big of a deal. It's not the first time politics, opinions, or jabs at fans have appeared in comics and chances are it won't be the last. So dislike it? Don't support the book or the writer in general.

@asgaard: I haven't read Angela's current book and while the art looks nice the story didn't really entice me. So I decided to wait until it comes available in MU

man look how shocked Spider-Man is!!! :D....it's ok Spidey....I am jelly he got a kiss from Thor too!

@feartheliving: I'm not really mad at Marvel or the writers. This sort of thing is common in pop culture. They take shots at the right all the time. It's just kinda tiresome after so long.

In Bor's case, there's far better ways to make your character seem evil. Have him make some medieval threats, such as putting people's heads on pikes and killing their families. That's the kind of stuff Vikings did, not gripe like M.R.A.s or Red Pillers, or complain about Israel. The author intentionally used modern politics to paint their character as evil when that character has no bearing or stated interest in modern politics. It's lazy writing at best, and hateful outrage baiting at worst.

As for the guys griping about being saved, these arguments have been made in a lot of different comics since the ANAD was announced. We know Marvel's stance on the opinions of their critics. Hammering it home one more time doesn't really make a difference since nothing has changed in the debate. It's probably catharsis for the writers but for most folks it's just annoying.

They call this the "Best Stuff in Comics" When they start it with a jab at the fans and the dumbest kiss I've ever scene. Sorry Marvel, but forcing your PC and SJW propaganda down our throats is only gonna make us reject it more.

@sinikettu: Ok, appreciate the feed back...

@constantine1610:

Ok tanks for the info, but what the Hel is Bor doing in Angela story, in what sense he is relevant now? And why M. Bennett wrote this caricature with this specific character that seems worse than Aaron's (Titania), when it was Freyja that changed the Angels after life fate when the Angels Queen kidnapped Angela?

It could be taken as lazy I get that. I still think those words specifically were used to point out an absurdity to the readers not what he was actually saying to Angela. (Though I'm not the writer so I won't know for sure.)

As for the guys griping about being saved, these arguments have been made in a lot of different comics since the ANAD was announced. We know Marvel's stance on the opinions of their critics. Hammering it home one more time doesn't really make a difference since nothing has changed in the debate. It's probably catharsis for the writers but for most folks it's just annoying.

Well as long as these characters are portrayed as being knock off characters and Marvel being PC I don't think that issue is going away. Not to mention Marvel Universe has always been a parallel in a lot of ways to our universe so when they have a topic that's being applies in the real world I think it's just to easy for them to be like hey we should make that a major issue for these characters that they're facing.

@atheistknowledge said:

@lvenger: It's not even a joke... Feminists are complaining about a tweeter parody account.. Meninist

this is one of their number one enemies... tweeter PARODY accounts... If you look at the sales of Angelas comic, then it becomes quickly clear why that "joke" was inserted in there. To stir up controversy so that more people might take a look at the comic. But stuff like is what actually kills the comic... because when i think about ancient Norse mythology i think of tweeter parody accounts.

Brilliant.

To be fair, some MRAs do refer to themselves as Meninists and that was way before the Twitter Parody Account (that's kind of the whole joke with creating said Twitter Account). If you have the misfortune to meet these people in real life, you will learn these people are unfortunately real.

@lb70145: Any sources for this? As far as i know there are no actual meninist or meninism, it's not an actual movement even if a few guys might take it seriously and called themselves like that.

@asgaard: Personally, no idea. I haven't read issue #4 yet. They are in Hel currently, but I don't know what happened to Bor since that was before I jumped on board the Asgard-type books.

I am just speaking from experience. I worked on a university campus in a few capacities (one of which being disciplinary) and these people exist. If it was a joke or "being ironic", I just have hope that in order to disrupt something like a Domestic Violence Awareness event it was because those people are just awful/ignorant individuals and not because they think they are being funny.

I am sure some MRAs are not aware that they are being fun of when they are referred to as Meninists. So I can completely see them just using the term to refer to themselves. I wasn't saying Meninism was a movement, just saying that there are people that call themselves that and are not being ironic about it.

Its good to see the comic vine comment section personified in Avengers. Loser people continue to not understand that comics shouldn't be judged by the color or sex of its characters, but by the content of their stories. So sorry you are bummed out, it's not like there are 70+ years of white male dominated stories out there.........oh wait that's all there was.

@captainmarvel4ever: This is what happens when you depend on the X-Men for all of your company's diversity then decide you won't use them anymore.

Amazing reference.

@spitfirepanda: hahaha no no no, not trying to troll

Those fingers are not the only thing that the monkey has kept hidden...Look at what they did with his ding a ling...

@kevinwalsh: You're comment was angry and hateful. You're either a troll or really immature. A meme is all that comment is worth.

@spitfirepanda: Not angry at all. I enjoy these comics. I'm good with these changes. It's immature to think 70+ years of pretty much the same thing from the DC and Marvel is boring and repetitive? It seems every time this website posts something about Marvel and it's characters, it's the worst kinds of people that come here to scream and shout.

@kevinwalsh:You've got jerks once in a while, but they exist everywhere. I'm not bothered by the changes either. I think most of them are pretty cool, but it's wrong to assume that the people who are bothered by the changes are motivated by racism or sexism. This is the first problem with your previous post. Just because someone doesn't like a change doesn't make them the "worst kinds of people". This is what makes your comment immature. You're putting people down, calling them losers and assuming the worst of them without putting yourself in their shoes.

It's because these are 70+ year old characters that they're so beloved, and so well defended. They've endured the test of time and generations have grown up reading and admiring them. They don't want their characters to change, especially not when it appears to be forced by a political agenda. Politics is fine so long as all sides are explored. Marvel is coming down on only one side, and anyone who disagrees is a villain.

Sadly, some of it was forced by politics, and poorly. As cool as I think Jane Thor is, her story has some serious plot holes. I'm not an expert on Iceman, but from what I've read about Marvel making him gay it sounds like it was forced. Then you've got the constant harping on how "our detractors are so wrong and clearly bad people" that Marvel keeps doing these days.

@lvenger: @atheistknowledge:

I agree with you guys 100%. Can't we just have awesome comics that actually tell great stories? Ya know, unlike what most Marvel Comics are pushing out every month and attempting to shove down our throats?

Kamala and Sam look so surprised

@the_stegman said:

@captainmarvel4ever said:

Ok, I do not care about any of the changes Marvel has made (as in they don't excite me, and they don't bother me, just completely neutral) and even I'm sick of writers using this lame meta joke over and over and over again

It was cute the first few times, but now it's become an annoying trope

THANK YOU!

We get it Marvel, you know the Internet doesn't like changes. You don't have to put it in every comic! Grow up and ignore it.

Jabbing at angry internet fans is how marvel writers enjoy themselves and I think it is part of marvels' marketing strategy anyway. I look at it this way, given marvel's history with characters such as these in a few years at most they'll both be tossed into the scrap heap, die tragically, be killed so that the new bad guy can look dangerous... Marvel doesn't do characters anymore as much as they do marketing and right now marketing is pushing these two. That'll end sooner or later and then it will be their fans turn to be angry and be laughed at and jabbed by the writers and editors.

Thanks, this is basically all it feels like anyway "Look, look at how progressive Marvel is, we're just as progressive as a late 1970s romantic comedy"

Bingo.

i agree with you. we get fifty million hulks with no complaints. there are a million flash's running around. however, when dc or marvel decides to make a minority version of the character that's when the complaining starts.

Well there are people that think of themselves as dragons... literally. So it doesn't really do much for me when a couple of morons take a joke seriously. So i honestly doubt the writer was referring to them but more likely about the Meninist tweeter account that has over million followers and has like 5 to 10k likes and retweets with every post...

@atheistknowledge: You tried. people don't want Sam to be Cap because racism.

The amount of butthurt this panel has generated is exactly why it's oh so perfect.

@asgaard said:

@antithetical: @winter_kills: @sinikettu: @ms-lola:

Are you still reading Angela new run? This makes any sense? Looks just ........... sad, because we actually care and enjoyed what Gillen was building! What is Marguerite Bennett doing? Bor is Odin's father since when his personality/identity cares for this mundane stuff or countries like Israel?

That's not confirmed to be Bor. I have been reading this book and the author has already taken some liberties with previous characters that I've come to enjoy (like Leah), but I'm approaching it as something way off in terms of the normal Asgard that I've come to know from last year. As it stands, I'm just enjoying it for the world building it's creating with Heven and how that kingdom worked and the perspective of the Angels.

As for the dialogue, it's just a bit of fun and sassiness and I'm okay with it. Sera's character brought in that kind of silliness and meta shots from way before and I've since gotten used to it. Granted, yes, it's being played around with in this sequence outside the norm, but meh, there's so much going on that I can easily gloss over it.

If this was the main Asgard book I probably would be put out a bit, but as it is, it isn't, and I'm good. This is the only book that refers to Asgard that's out there, true, but it's all happening in Hel with trickery abound.

There are aspects of racism and sexism in the complaints from some for sure. However, that isn't the only reason people dislike changes and there have been fans that decry any change. Does no one remember the backlash when Kyle Rayner become Green Lantern? I think the reason that Flash replacements are taken a little better is because they usually come from the death of the previous and are pre-existing characters. Wally West was Kid Flash before stepping up as was Bart in his brief Flash run. Green Lanterns on the other hand are a huge organization so adding members doesn't detract from the whole. I personally really like Sam Wilson as Captain America because he has been around forever and certainly earned a shot at the mantle. On the other hand, I hate Lady Thor. For me this seemed to come out of left field and only take place for an agenda. I would have preferred if someone like Sif would have stepped into the role.

The other issue I think people have is how quickly they are shoving all these characters onto the Avengers. I remember back in 2000 something when Firestar and Vance were added onto the team during the Busiak run. These characters had been around on teams for over a decade. On the other hand, you have Ms. Marvel whose comics are barely in double digits. She seems too green for the team and the same can be said for baby Nova.

Lastly, those of us on the fence would be more likely won over if every issue didn't contain at least one: "If you don't like this you're a bigot" moment. That's a great way to make those of us on the fence give up on the characters.

Sorry if anyone's already said his, but I feel like Marvel constantly giving middle fingers to people who don't like some of the legacy characters is going to backfire on them, and them constantly bringing it up will only make it more likely that these characters will be remembered solely because of this.

For once that Angela and Sera a from a matriarchal society were man have very limited career choices, specifically being in a temple and praying and NOT speaking EVER, and are probably the wrong book to speak about sexism. That means they are actually good, because Sera actually broke gender roles in her society. You just have to be a whole lot smarter about it.

Here we just have "Hey, know how Jason Aaron makes Odin out to be a huge sexist? Lets make a version of Bor thats an even bigger one! Maybe we can even get more sales with the controversy." And their female villain sends a mysoginistic illusion against them?

Looking good there Dick!

You asked for sources, I gave you my experience because that is the truth. If you choose to move the goal post or compare meninists to dragonkin in order to fit your narrative, that's your choice. They are no less real (meninists/MRAs) and they cause real problems.

Your experiences are no sources to me. I need actual evidence i am sorry that's how things work, especially with a hardcore skeptic like me. I just don't take peoples personal "experiences" as valid enough evidence, nothing personal. I wasn't comparing meninist to dragonking i was giving you an example of why it doesn't matter if some people take something seriously. Those people are in a huge minority, besides most feminists do actually believe the twitter account Meninist is a real thing and that followers are "real Meninist".

What real problems do Meninist cause? What problems do even MRA's cause? Considering they don't have any influence over the world unlike feminists that have a huge influence and cause problems on a daily basis?

@ms-lola:

I knew your input would not disappoint and would acknowledge relevant points (thanks), hard to see the necessity of this panel, not that can impact the main plot/worldbuilding (as you explained), but has the capacity/repercussion to hurt/label this character/comic for the future... I just saw the sales and yes they are not good, but i am not sure if this stuff is a good idea to sell/call attention to a comic that is so new at marvel and already is on the limbo, in my view Bennet should try to be inclusive and don't bring this discussions to a comic about the (lost) daughter of the God Odin that was raised by Angels, in fact Gillen never explored similar angles with this characters because they should not give any importance to human definitions, as you know Sera was actually a victim of the Angels society that is ruled by females, but this society mentality (nothing for nothing that also defines Angela character) was also a product of Freyja actions on the world tree (supposedly no afterlife), so the premise & characters (Sera/Bor/Hela etc...) should try to look godly/complex and stay away from this mundane stuff, probably there are other ways/plots to still explore Sera's sassiness, hard to understand how that panel content can have interest/motivation/incentive for any of the characters/world portrayed there.

Not sure what this comic future will be, but M. Bennett/Marvel Editorial should preserve this character(s) at the eyes of all the potential buyers for the future, unlike Jane as Female Thor, Angela is supposed to be around for the long term as Thor & Loki sister and Odin/Freyja's daughter...

Angela Asgards Assassin 1 $3.99 Marvel 61,398

Angela Asgard's Assassin 2 $3.99 Marvel 36,992

Angela Asgards Assassin 3 $3.99 Marvel 31,096

Angela Queen of Hel 1 $3.99 Marvel 39,271

Angela Queen of Hel 2 $3.99 Marvel 23,264

Angela Queen of Hel 3 $3.99 Marvel 20,958

The Godly premise/characterization was why i enjoyed Gillen take on Thor, JIM and Angela so much! I wonder if God will be definitely dead at Marvel for the foreseeable future, if so that is ........ Sad!!!

@spitfirepanda:

As cool as I think Jane Thor is, her story has some serious plot holes.

Nice posts... About this sentence only reading some previews here and there i think is more than just plot holes, i wonder if writers really know Jane character that well and what were her motivations before pick the hammer, is not even about the failed execution of the new creative decisions, are this the things that should be more relevant for Jane in the current context? So life is short but she doesn't care for her son James Kincaid? (Correct me if i am wrong and marvel writers in fact explored Jane caring about her son)... (JMS run)...

@asgaard: Yeah, you're right. It looks like a bit of a mess. Honestly I haven't been able to follow the new Marvel much due to money constraints. I've read through a few comics in-store without buying them, though. Thus far I don't think the situation with her son has been explored, but I could be wrong.

i bet they feel clever using the same joke over and over again at marvel

im bout to hop ship to dc

screw this

I think the changes don't bother me at all because I like good stories. Some one once said (on this website) "what if they made black panther white" and while that sounds like a terrible idea and strange in the worst way, I am going to give the writer at least a CHANCE to tell their story. I legit DO NOT CARE whoever is in a mantel of the bat, or thor, hellboy, whoever, if the story works it works. People can nitpick and complain and find these little annoying things when it comes to forcefully introducing new people, but I just don't care enough about who is in the story as long as its good. This whole cultural phenomenon of needing the status quo to stay as forever is stupid. Burn it all to the ground, build something new and cool. "Well why don't they just make new multi-cultural and female characters". Because when you put Miles in a spiderman costume, or Jane as Thor, it uses the legacy and name of those characters to get to more readers. Are people here really going to complain about introducing more diversity to a wider audience? That blows my mind. But again stories >>>> characters.

Meninists/MRAs, in my eyes, are just the opposite of "extreme feminism" (which often is not real feminism). Different sides, same stupid coin. The purpose of feminism is to advocate for women's issues that are often ignored or not seen as problems. Those that twist that purpose to the point where their stance is extreme derails the conversation. That is why Meninists/MRAs are just as much of a problem. They downplay feminist causes, even if they are legitimate issues. Even if Meninists/MRAs are a complete joke, their existence makes a lot of people not take the conversation seriously and open the door to groups like the "Return of Kings". It is simply irritating to even entertain such backwards and moronic rhetoric when these groups are not even interested in intellectual debate. It is a vicious circle that overshadows real issues like Women's products (like tampons) being taxed as luxury items, maternity/paternity leave, access to birth control, and so much more. Some legitimacy is lost when these fringe groups are given a voice, that is why Meninists/MRAs and "Extreme Femininists" waste everyone's time.

Wasn't taking it personally, just pointing out the convenience of moving the goal post after asking for nonspecific evidence and making a comparison that (to my knowledge) is very weak at best. You may not have done it on purpose, but I felt I needed to point it out regardless. If you are going to make an argument, make it a good one. Do you have some kind of survey/poll that says feminists believe that the Meninist Twitter Account is real? Or are you making a generalization? In the case of Meninists/MRAs, do you have numbers to show they are in fact a minority? If so, a minority insomuch as Men think this? or People on the internet? Please be specific. I am legitimately curious about these questions, for I do not know. If you have information that can make me more informed, please feel free to pm me. But I don't take your statements as fact just because you assert them. Strawmanning is easy, if I am going to continue this conversation please do better.

@captainmarvel4ever said:

Ok, I do not care about any of the changes Marvel has made (as in they don't excite me, and they don't bother me, just completely neutral) and even I'm sick of writers using this lame meta joke over and over and over again

It was cute the first few times, but now it's become an annoying trope

Yep, It is like in every book they are trying really hard to justify their changes without actually, you know, providing substance and instead go for this snarky 'meta' remarks. First couple of times was like ' oh I get what you are trying to do , I don't like it but ok '' but now it is like '' Oh yea , everyone who is complaining must be ungrateful idiots ! We are doing a favor for them with these and yet they complain ! '' levels of awful.

Well that is really my point about some the changes. There are ones that seem like an organic thing: Falcon taking the mantle, Miles taking over after Ultimate Parker died, the new Nova taking over for Ryder. Then there are changes that seem to have been made simply to make an impact: Jane Foster taking over the mantle of Thor, 616 Iceman becoming gay despite no previous indication. Additionally, I think the problem that Lady Thor runs into is that the writer is obsessed with hitting on the character's gender OVER and OVER again at least a couple times an issue. That will win praise from the hardcore crowd, but those on the fence just grow annoyed. I just always thought X-men had the best (but not perfect) handle on diversity back before they became Marvel's pariahs.