@jayc1324: I have to disagree on that, City had a WAY better story than origins.
Anyone else excited for Arkham Knight?
@generator2000: I keep going back and forth on that. I loved seeing Batman figuring out what joker is all about and jokers surprise when batman didn't let him die in origins. And I love Batman's reaction to jokers death in city. Both games did a great job showing how deep their relationship is. One thing city has over origins is that it used a lot more villians and used them well. But protocol 10 seemed a little like an afterthought in city and the assassins storyline wasn't important at all in origins. Very hard to decide which was better for me.
As long as I have Dark Souls 2 in my shelf, I won't be playing another game for a good while. And thank goodness that this is out for PC as well. I'd hate having to buy a Next Gen console, given that I recently upgraded my PC.
@generator2000 said:
@jayc1324: I have to disagree on that, City had a WAY better story than origins.
Nah not really,a lot of random stuff was shoehorned in to the narrative.
@jayc1324 Oh, I understand.
@entropy_aegis The story for Origins was off, but the main story for Arkham City ws more focused and made more sense to me.
I couldn't get pass the idea of Batman outfighting Deathstroke, Bane, Lady Shiva, Deadshot and Copperhed in one night. The idea of the Joker impersonating the Black Mask made no sense to me. I think that the Joker should've been a side character and Black Mask should've been the main villian. Bane never appeared early in Batman's career and I don't think that Bane would take orders from the Joker. Honestly, Deathstroke should've played Bane's role. It would've made more sense for Deathstroke to periodically show up and challenge Batman.
I was dissapointed. THey shouldn't have even had Deathstroke in the game or in any trailers. Bane should've been in them instead, for he played a bigger role. Lots of people were dissapointed by the fact that Deathstroke only appeared once and got knocked out during the first fight. Honestly, Deathstroke was the best boss in the game and probably the second or third best behind Grundy or Clayface.
@generator2000 said:
@entropy_aegis The story for Origins was off, but the main story for Arkham City ws more focused and made more sense to me.
I couldn't get pass the idea of Batman outfighting Deathstroke, Bane, Lady Shiva, Deadshot and Copperhed in one night. The idea of the Joker impersonating the Black Mask made no sense to me. I think that the Joker should've been a side character and Black Mask should've been the main villian. Bane never appeared early in Batman's career and I don't think that Bane would take orders from the Joker. Honestly, Deathstroke should've played Bane's role. It would've made more sense for Deathstroke to periodically show up and challenge Batman.
I was dissapointed. THey shouldn't have even had Deathstroke in the game or in any trailers. Bane should've been in them instead, for he played a bigger role. Lots of people were dissapointed by the fact that Deathstroke only appeared once and got knocked out during the first fight. Honestly, Deathstroke was the best boss in the game and probably the second or third best behind Grundy or Clayface.
Joker impersonated Black Mask to take control of his resources. Bane didn't take orders from anyone and whether or not he appeared early in Batman's career makes no difference whatsoever different universe,different rules. Deathstroke was there only for the money,he lost and thus was sent packing,it was actually true to his character,Bane was there for something more again true to the character.Initially I was also disappointed at Joker being the villain but after playing the game I was impressed. Arkham Origins game me the best Joker story since Grant Morrison.
AC story had a bunch of random events lazily mixed together,the concept was fantastic but the execution was waay off. The game couldn't decide which story was more important,protocol 10 or the cure and then Talia gets kidnapped cause?Mad Hatter and Two-face were so random, Ra's al Ghul just happened to be in AC when Batman needed his blood etc etc.
@entropy_aegis: Arkham City was perfect because of all of the random elements. The entire story is centered around a mega prison where all of the criminals have dumped, it made sense to have random villains sprinkled everywhere. The story was great, and I liked the fact that Batman had multiple problems and causes of the problems made sense. They had a prelude to the fact Ras Al Ghul was in the city in Arkham Asylum and they revealed that he was the one who set it up. He was in the aslyum morgue in the previous game. The game would have sucked if the story was simple. It was excellently written and unlike origins, it was written by a comic writer.
The Joker was awesome in Origins, for he was the only character who was done correctly, but everyone else was off.
Deathstroke was not true to his character. Deathstroke would've done everything right up till his fight with Batman. Batman cannot knock Deathstroke out. Even if he did, Deathstroke would've recovered and went after him again. The GCPD couldn't hold Deathstroke, for he would have escaped before he could have been locked in a cell, even then, Deathstroke would not sit in a cell, he'd break out, Deathstroke should have been in Bane's position. They could have had Batman beat someone else in that sequence. Deathstroke would have went after Batman again.
Even then, Bane didn't seem to fit. The game's original premise was that Batman was getting hunted by assassins.
They should have stuck to the original script and left Bane out. They should have left the Joker out and teased him at the end. The game's story was absolutely garbage. I don't see how any true Bat fan could like it
@generator2000 said:
@entropy_aegis: Arkham City was perfect because of all of the random elements. The entire story is centered around a mega prison where all of the criminals have dumped, it made sense to have random villains sprinkled everywhere. The story was great, and I liked the fact that Batman had multiple problems and causes of the problems made sense. They had a prelude to the fact Ras Al Ghul was in the city in Arkham Asylum and they revealed that he was the one who set it up. He was in the aslyum morgue in the previous game. The game would have sucked if the story was simple. It was excellently written and unlike origins, it was written by a comic writer.
The Joker was awesome in Origins, for he was the only character who was done correctly, but everyone else was off.
Deathstroke was not true to his character. Deathstroke would've done everything right up till his fight with Batman. Batman cannot knock Deathstroke out. Even if he did, Deathstroke would've recovered and went after him again. The GCPD couldn't hold Deathstroke, for he would have escaped before he could have been locked in a cell, even then, Deathstroke would not sit in a cell, he'd break out, Deathstroke should have been in Bane's position. They could have had Batman beat someone else in that sequence. Deathstroke would have went after Batman again.
Even then, Bane didn't seem to fit. The game's original premise was that Batman was getting hunted by assassins.
They should have stuck to the original script and left Bane out. They should have left the Joker out and teased him at the end. The game's story was absolutely garbage. I don't see how any true Bat fan could like it
Your entire argument boils down to what should've or couldv'e been ,the game told it's story the way writers wanted it to not what you wanted. There are true Batman fans who think Origins had the best story by far of all 3 games,and not just here but on many other sites. If you dont like it fine but atleast come up with better arguments cause right now it's just a whole lot of Deathstroke wanking and complaining about Joker. Deathstroke doesn't have any personal issue with Batman he was there for the money,he lost so we moved on,it's really that simple you're intent on making him something he's never been not even in the comics. Many people really have no idea what Deathstroke is about,people have this misconception that he's unstoppable and unbeatable all of which is hilariously incorrect,Batman has beaten him.Also what was this original script you speak of? I certainly dont recall the writers changing their script,like I said previously your problem seems to be wanting the story to go the way you wanted it go. That's not genuine crticism.
City on the other hand was a clusterf*ck,Mad Hatter just shows up gets his ass kicked? Two-Face wants respect by murdering Catwoman? huh.Ra's al Ghul just happens to be in AC when Batman needs his blood? oh and his assassin just happens to be in the room when Batman needs to trace him? he is declared the mastermind without any prior build up.Freeze is an ally one second,enemy another and then ally again while his boss fight was arguably the best in the entire series there's no doubt that it was unnecessary. If anything Arkham Origins gives more meat to City if you listen to Shivas tapes. Dini is a one hit wonder,he writes one good story and then repeats it. Even Clayface's reasoning for being there was flimsy but passable nonetheless.
Arkham City was a spectacular failure story wise.It was the game equivalent of Hush.
@entropy_aegis I understand your first point, but I wasn't Deathstroke wanking. Give me an example of an instance where Batman took Dethstroke on in direct combat, one on one, and won. Deatstroke would have made a second attempt and the GCPD wouldn't have been able to hold Deathstroke in a regular cell. I did not mean to say that there was an original script, I meant to say that they should have stuck with the original idea about Black Mask and left the Joker out. They could have had better assassins and other features. The game sucked and many people will agree with me.
Which would make more sense, a giant megaprison that ha no Bat villains, or a prison filled with Bat villains? It made sense to me to have multiple villains in the game, trying to kill Batman, who probably put them there. Two Face was trying to earn his reputation by killing Catwoman, a notable fighter and theif in Gotham. Ras Al Ghul was in Arkham Asylum. He was in the Asylum morgue, but after you beat the game, his body disapears. Mr.Freeze was working with the Joker at first, but he tried to attack Batman in a fit of rage because his wife went missing. Origins might have tried to add more to the mythos, but they did nothing.
I disagree. Origins was a massive failure to me and kind of turned me offf to the series in general.
@entropy_aegis: As already mentioned Ra's was alluded to in Asylum. He didn't "just happen to be in Arkham City", he was there because it was his plan, and really, despite what he told Strange, he was still hoping Batman would take his place. Two-Face wasn't really an important part of the plot (though his feud with Catwoman was explained; she stole from him), that was just a bit of action put at the beginning of the game to get things going. It's a common plot device used to establish the mood, and a feeling of constant danger, often used in games, movies, and pretty much any form of entertainment. Start with a piece of only slightly related action, then get to the actual story. Besides it's a game, part of the missions (such as the Mad Hatter) are there so you can, you know, have a fun time playing them. Mad Hatter was completely optional, by the way. I didn't even do that mission my first time through the game. Freeze didn't think Batman would help his wife (well, he thought that Batman was too preoccupied to make it his number one priority, anyway) so he was going to force Batman to find Nora, instead of dealing with more pressing matters. After Batman beats some sense into him, he agrees to help if Batman will look for Nora as well.
@monsterstomp said:
@jonny_anonymous said:
To be honest, I never notice many bugs until something points them out. Nevertheless, it has run pretty well on my Xbox...
Same for my Xbox, i had no problems with it :) I know I'm in the minority, but I loved it!
@entropy_aegis said:
Your entire argument boils down to what should've or couldv'e been ,the game told it's story the way writers wanted it to not what you wanted. There are true Batman fans who think Origins had the best story by far of all 3 games,and not just here but on many other sites. If you dont like it fine but atleast come up with better arguments cause right now it's just a whole lot of Deathstroke wanking and complaining about Joker. Deathstroke doesn't have any personal issue with Batman he was there for the money,he lost so we moved on,it's really that simple you're intent on making him something he's never been not even in the comics. Many people really have no idea what Deathstroke is about,people have this misconception that he's unstoppable and unbeatable all of which is hilariously incorrect,Batman has beaten him.Also what was this original script you speak of? I certainly dont recall the writers changing their script,like I said previously your problem seems to be wanting the story to go the way you wanted it go. That's not genuine crticism.
City on the other hand was a clusterf*ck,Mad Hatter just shows up gets his ass kicked? Two-Face wants respect by murdering Catwoman? huh.Ra's al Ghul just happens to be in AC when Batman needs his blood? oh and his assassin just happens to be in the room when Batman needs to trace him? he is declared the mastermind without any prior build up.Freeze is an ally one second,enemy another and then ally again while his boss fight was arguably the best in the entire series there's no doubt that it was unnecessary. If anything Arkham Origins gives more meat to City if you listen to Shivas tapes. Dini is a one hit wonder,he writes one good story and then repeats it. Even Clayface's reasoning for being there was flimsy but passable nonetheless.
Arkham City was a spectacular failure story wise.It was the game equivalent of Hush.
I could critique a few things from Batman: Arkham Origins.
The portrayal of Deathstroke was quite poor. I'm not talking voice acting, I'm talking in comparison to the comics and the game. True Batman fans see Deathstroke as a mercenary/assassin who has meta-human stats and is a tactical genius. True fans know him as the best assassin on DC Earth. Even his game bio says he's meta-human, yet Batman sweeps past him like he's some random guy in Batman's way like Electrocutioner. His portrayal was a disappointment. The Joker impersonating Black Mask was a cool twist, but Joker being the main villain for all three games and to have Roman Sionis as a supporting villain was another let down. However, I did enjoy the effect Joker had on Batman from their first encounters.
As for your critique for Batman: Arkham City. What? Arkham City is "clusterf*ck" but Origins wasn't? You bring up Mad Hatter, yet Mad Hatter also showed up out of nowhere in Origins as well. Shiva wants respect after Batman kicked her ass in Initiation? Fighting Freeze was unnecessary? How many times have allies fought each other in comics that are unnecessary? Freeze was simply misled.
The Joker twist at the end of Arkham City was awesome. Again, you may have to read the tie-in comics to fill you in on all the plot holes.
None of the games were flawless. This is all based on opinion. For me, Arkham City is the best game in the series thus far.
@marionettegeist said:
@entropy_aegis: As already mentioned Ra's was alluded to in Asylum. He didn't "just happen to be in Arkham City", he was there because it was his plan, and really, despite what he told Strange, he was still hoping Batman would take his place. Two-Face wasn't really an important part of the plot (though his feud with Catwoman was explained; she stole from him), that was just a bit of action put at the beginning of the game to get things going. It's a common plot device used to establish the mood, and a feeling of constant danger, often used in games, movies, and pretty much any form of entertainment. Start with a piece of only slightly related action, then get to the actual story. Besides it's a game, part of the missions (such as the Mad Hatter) are there so you can, you know, have a fun time playing them. Mad Hatter was completely optional, by the way. I didn't even do that mission my first time through the game. Freeze didn't think Batman would help his wife (well, he thought that Batman was too preoccupied to make it his number one priority, anyway) so he was going to force Batman to find Nora, instead of dealing with more pressing matters. After Batman beats some sense into him, he agrees to help if Batman will look for Nora as well.
If Ra's al Ghul was obvious as you say then why didn't Batman figure out that he was the mastermind? why did Talia mention Metropolis as the place of their last meeting? Asylum just gave an easter egg which you're looking waay to much in to. Two-Face was wasted period,Mad Hatter just pops out of nowhere in the story(if it was side mission ok but it wasn't).Mr Freeze and Batman fought for the sake of fighting,it's a major plot hole really.
@monsterstomp said:
@entropy_aegis said:
Your entire argument boils down to what should've or couldv'e been ,the game told it's story the way writers wanted it to not what you wanted. There are true Batman fans who think Origins had the best story by far of all 3 games,and not just here but on many other sites. If you dont like it fine but atleast come up with better arguments cause right now it's just a whole lot of Deathstroke wanking and complaining about Joker. Deathstroke doesn't have any personal issue with Batman he was there for the money,he lost so we moved on,it's really that simple you're intent on making him something he's never been not even in the comics. Many people really have no idea what Deathstroke is about,people have this misconception that he's unstoppable and unbeatable all of which is hilariously incorrect,Batman has beaten him.Also what was this original script you speak of? I certainly dont recall the writers changing their script,like I said previously your problem seems to be wanting the story to go the way you wanted it go. That's not genuine crticism.
City on the other hand was a clusterf*ck,Mad Hatter just shows up gets his ass kicked? Two-Face wants respect by murdering Catwoman? huh.Ra's al Ghul just happens to be in AC when Batman needs his blood? oh and his assassin just happens to be in the room when Batman needs to trace him? he is declared the mastermind without any prior build up.Freeze is an ally one second,enemy another and then ally again while his boss fight was arguably the best in the entire series there's no doubt that it was unnecessary. If anything Arkham Origins gives more meat to City if you listen to Shivas tapes. Dini is a one hit wonder,he writes one good story and then repeats it. Even Clayface's reasoning for being there was flimsy but passable nonetheless.
Arkham City was a spectacular failure story wise.It was the game equivalent of Hush.
I could critique a few things from Batman: Arkham Origins.
The portrayal of Deathstroke was quite poor. I'm not talking voice acting, I'm talking in comparison to the comics and the game. True Batman fans see Deathstroke as a mercenary/assassin who has meta-human stats and is a tactical genius. True fans know him as the best assassin on DC Earth. Even his game bio says he's meta-human, yet Batman sweeps past him like he's some random guy in Batman's way like Electrocutioner. His portrayal was a disappointment. The Joker impersonating Black Mask was a cool twist, but Joker being the main villain for all three games and to have Roman Sionis as a supporting villain was another let down. However, I did enjoy the effect Joker had on Batman from their first encounters.
As for your critique for Batman: Arkham City. What? Arkham City is "clusterf*ck" but Origins wasn't? You bring up Mad Hatter, yet Mad Hatter also showed up out of nowhere in Origins as well. Shiva wants respect after Batman kicked her ass in Initiation? Fighting Freeze was unnecessary? How many times have allies fought each other in comics that are unnecessary? Freeze was simply misled.
The Joker twist at the end of Arkham City was awesome. Again, you may have to read the tie-in comics to fill you in on all the plot holes.
None of the games were flawless. This is all based on opinion. For me, Arkham City is the best game in the series thus far.
You are fully entitled to critique but so far it's been Deathstroke wanking ,Deathstroke was not poorly represented he was not given a bigger part in the story there is a huge difference.Slade has never been a major player in Batmans world,his only appeal is a cool fight the last Batman/Deathstroke centric story was written 15 years ago and Batman defeated him there,it was quite similar to Arkham Origins.
The Joker twist was predictable,that's why I called it Hush lite,and I have no desire to read tie inns comics at all,I rarely do. City was the better game you wont hear me denying that though.
@generator2000 said:
@entropy_aegis I understand your first point, but I wasn't Deathstroke wanking. Give me an example of an instance where Batman took Dethstroke on in direct combat, one on one, and won. Deatstroke would have made a second attempt and the GCPD wouldn't have been able to hold Deathstroke in a regular cell. I did not mean to say that there was an original script, I meant to say that they should have stuck with the original idea about Black Mask and left the Joker out. They could have had better assassins and other features. The game sucked and many people will agree with me.
Which would make more sense, a giant megaprison that ha no Bat villains, or a prison filled with Bat villains? It made sense to me to have multiple villains in the game, trying to kill Batman, who probably put them there. Two Face was trying to earn his reputation by killing Catwoman, a notable fighter and theif in Gotham. Ras Al Ghul was in Arkham Asylum. He was in the Asylum morgue, but after you beat the game, his body disapears. Mr.Freeze was working with the Joker at first, but he tried to attack Batman in a fit of rage because his wife went missing. Origins might have tried to add more to the mythos, but they did nothing.
I disagree. Origins was a massive failure to me and kind of turned me offf to the series in general.
Deathstroke lost to Batman straight up in Detective comics 708 and not just that but Batman stopped him from completing his contract,hmmm sounds familiar.
What better assassins? KgBeast? he's Bane lite,Cain? Shiva lite,Cheshire?(not even a Batman villain) similar to copper head. So far you've done nothing to prove that the game sucked other than taking personal shots at the story and that too cause it didn't play out the you wanted it too. Mr Freeze could have asked Batman politely,instead he destroyed the cure and allowed the other vial to be stolen(which didn't make sense either),completely unnecessary and solely plot driven in the most idiotic way. Villains trying to kill Batman randomly I can handle,villains being forced in to the main plot is entirely different.
Origins gave us a fantastic story with a lot of heart,it was the best Joker story since TDK and Bane story since Rises.
@entropy_aegis said:
@monsterstomp said:
I could critique a few things from Batman: Arkham Origins.
The portrayal of Deathstroke was quite poor. I'm not talking voice acting, I'm talking in comparison to the comics and the game. True Batman fans see Deathstroke as a mercenary/assassin who has meta-human stats and is a tactical genius. True fans know him as the best assassin on DC Earth. Even his game bio says he's meta-human, yet Batman sweeps past him like he's some random guy in Batman's way like Electrocutioner. His portrayal was a disappointment. The Joker impersonating Black Mask was a cool twist, but Joker being the main villain for all three games and to have Roman Sionis as a supporting villain was another let down. However, I did enjoy the effect Joker had on Batman from their first encounters.
As for your critique for Batman: Arkham City. What? Arkham City is "clusterf*ck" but Origins wasn't? You bring up Mad Hatter, yet Mad Hatter also showed up out of nowhere in Origins as well. Shiva wants respect after Batman kicked her ass in Initiation? Fighting Freeze was unnecessary? How many times have allies fought each other in comics that are unnecessary? Freeze was simply misled.
The Joker twist at the end of Arkham City was awesome. Again, you may have to read the tie-in comics to fill you in on all the plot holes.
None of the games were flawless. This is all based on opinion. For me, Arkham City is the best game in the series thus far.
You are fully entitled to critique but so far it's been Deathstroke wanking ,Deathstroke was not poorly represented he was not given a bigger part in the story there is a huge difference.Slade has never been a major player in Batmans world,his only appeal is a cool fight the last Batman/Deathstroke centric story was written 15 years ago and Batman defeated him there,it was quite similar to Arkham Origins.
The Joker twist was predictable,that's why I called it Hush lite,and I have no desire to read tie inns comics at all,I rarely do. City was the better game you wont hear me denying that though.
I didn't really mind Deathstroke not being a huge role in the plot, but that fight was poorly written, there's no denying. There was a lot of build up to that encounter. Everyone was expecting some real epic showdown and the fact that Deathstroke could possibly play a decent role. In comics, Batman never faired well against Slade in a straight up encounter. I just felt the build up was for nothing.
But aside from Deathstroke being a disappointment and so early into the game, the game was epic.
I think a better question would be
Who the hell isn't excited for arkham knight????????
@i3io_hazard said:
I think a better question would be
Who the hell isn't excited for arkham knight????????
@entropy_aegis said:
@marionettegeist said:
@entropy_aegis: As already mentioned Ra's was alluded to in Asylum. He didn't "just happen to be in Arkham City", he was there because it was his plan, and really, despite what he told Strange, he was still hoping Batman would take his place. Two-Face wasn't really an important part of the plot (though his feud with Catwoman was explained; she stole from him), that was just a bit of action put at the beginning of the game to get things going. It's a common plot device used to establish the mood, and a feeling of constant danger, often used in games, movies, and pretty much any form of entertainment. Start with a piece of only slightly related action, then get to the actual story. Besides it's a game, part of the missions (such as the Mad Hatter) are there so you can, you know, have a fun time playing them. Mad Hatter was completely optional, by the way. I didn't even do that mission my first time through the game. Freeze didn't think Batman would help his wife (well, he thought that Batman was too preoccupied to make it his number one priority, anyway) so he was going to force Batman to find Nora, instead of dealing with more pressing matters. After Batman beats some sense into him, he agrees to help if Batman will look for Nora as well.
If Ra's al Ghul was obvious as you say then why didn't Batman figure out that he was the mastermind?
When did I say obvious? Anyway, he didn't figure it out because that would have spoiled the games ending to the player.
why did Talia mention Metropolis as the place of their last meeting?
Why not? Maybe it was, what does that have to do with anything?
Asylum just gave an easter egg which you're looking waay to much in to.
No, I'm not. It was part of the story. You could find files talking about the construction of Arkham City and the fragile mental state, and easy manipulation of Quincy Sharp as well.
Two-Face was wasted period.
At first you said they used too many villains, but now Two-Face was wasted because they didn't use him enough? What constitutes "wasted"? Just the fact that you wanted to see them more, but didn't?
Mad Hatter just pops out of nowhere in the story(if it was side mission ok but it wasn't).
It was a side mission, replay the game, you don't have to do it, I didn't.
Mr Freeze and Batman fought for the sake of fighting,it's a major plot hole really.
No, it's not. I just explained it and your ignoring everything I said.
@entropy_aegis I see so much wrong in your statement.... let's leave it at this, Batman had to fight Deathstroke in the issues you named, but it apparantly took him several tries before he won, and apparant;ly, he only won because of PIS. Batman, Nightwing and Red Robin and had to fight him at one time to beat him. Deathstroke has knocked the Bat out several times. Deathstroke wasn't in character.
Mad Hatter was a side mission. What does Talia have to do with Ras and Batman? They forshadowed his appearance in Arkham Asylum.
The story for City was A OK. ORigins SUCKED to me. I'm done for now, I've got something to do.
@generator2000 said:
@entropy_aegis I see so much wrong in your statement.... let's leave it at this, Batman had to fight Deathstroke in the issues you named, but it apparantly took him several tries before he won, and apparant;ly, he only won because of PIS. Batman, Nightwing and Red Robin and had to fight him at one time to beat him. Deathstroke has knocked the Bat out several times. Deathstroke wasn't in character.
Mad Hatter was a side mission. What does Talia have to do with Ras and Batman? They forshadowed his appearance in Arkham Asylum.
The story for City was A OK. ORigins SUCKED to me. I'm done for now, I've got something to do.
Took him 2 tries,not several,fact remains Slade still lost to Batman outright and no wasn't PIS,just cause you didnt like it.Batman stomped him when he had help from Nightwing and Robin,literally shoved his foot down Slade's mouth. Deathstroke has knocked Batman out only once,back in his own series and then got his ass kicked by a normal thug cause he was in bad condition.
What does Talia have to do with Ra's? are you joking? They can foreshadow it all they want but fact remains that he was only in Gotham to provide Batman a cure,Batman didn't have any interest in Ra's up till that point,that's the only reason Bruce sought him out.
@monsterstomp said:
@entropy_aegis said:
@monsterstomp said:
I could critique a few things from Batman: Arkham Origins.
The portrayal of Deathstroke was quite poor. I'm not talking voice acting, I'm talking in comparison to the comics and the game. True Batman fans see Deathstroke as a mercenary/assassin who has meta-human stats and is a tactical genius. True fans know him as the best assassin on DC Earth. Even his game bio says he's meta-human, yet Batman sweeps past him like he's some random guy in Batman's way like Electrocutioner. His portrayal was a disappointment. The Joker impersonating Black Mask was a cool twist, but Joker being the main villain for all three games and to have Roman Sionis as a supporting villain was another let down. However, I did enjoy the effect Joker had on Batman from their first encounters.
As for your critique for Batman: Arkham City. What? Arkham City is "clusterf*ck" but Origins wasn't? You bring up Mad Hatter, yet Mad Hatter also showed up out of nowhere in Origins as well. Shiva wants respect after Batman kicked her ass in Initiation? Fighting Freeze was unnecessary? How many times have allies fought each other in comics that are unnecessary? Freeze was simply misled.
The Joker twist at the end of Arkham City was awesome. Again, you may have to read the tie-in comics to fill you in on all the plot holes.
None of the games were flawless. This is all based on opinion. For me, Arkham City is the best game in the series thus far.
You are fully entitled to critique but so far it's been Deathstroke wanking ,Deathstroke was not poorly represented he was not given a bigger part in the story there is a huge difference.Slade has never been a major player in Batmans world,his only appeal is a cool fight the last Batman/Deathstroke centric story was written 15 years ago and Batman defeated him there,it was quite similar to Arkham Origins.
The Joker twist was predictable,that's why I called it Hush lite,and I have no desire to read tie inns comics at all,I rarely do. City was the better game you wont hear me denying that though.
I didn't really mind Deathstroke not being a huge role in the plot, but that fight was poorly written, there's no denying. There was a lot of build up to that encounter. Everyone was expecting some real epic showdown and the fact that Deathstroke could possibly play a decent role. In comics, Batman never faired well against Slade in a straight up encounter. I just felt the build up was for nothing.
But aside from Deathstroke being a disappointment and so early into the game, the game was epic.
I can agree with the build up but I still dont see how that fight was bad? the boss is only as hard as the player allows him to be,unless you want Deathstroke to kill Batman...
Even Joker refused to let him out of his cell,these writers also wrote a Deathstroke comic where he was kicking all sorts of ass. People are looking way too much in to this,Deathstroke was not the main villain.
@entropy_aegis said:
@marionettegeist said:
@entropy_aegis: As already mentioned Ra's was alluded to in Asylum. He didn't "just happen to be in Arkham City", he was there because it was his plan, and really, despite what he told Strange, he was still hoping Batman would take his place. Two-Face wasn't really an important part of the plot (though his feud with Catwoman was explained; she stole from him), that was just a bit of action put at the beginning of the game to get things going. It's a common plot device used to establish the mood, and a feeling of constant danger, often used in games, movies, and pretty much any form of entertainment. Start with a piece of only slightly related action, then get to the actual story. Besides it's a game, part of the missions (such as the Mad Hatter) are there so you can, you know, have a fun time playing them. Mad Hatter was completely optional, by the way. I didn't even do that mission my first time through the game. Freeze didn't think Batman would help his wife (well, he thought that Batman was too preoccupied to make it his number one priority, anyway) so he was going to force Batman to find Nora, instead of dealing with more pressing matters. After Batman beats some sense into him, he agrees to help if Batman will look for Nora as well.
If Ra's al Ghul was obvious as you say then why didn't Batman figure out that he was the mastermind?
When did I say obvious? Anyway, he didn't figure it out because that would have spoiled the games ending to the player.
why did Talia mention Metropolis as the place of their last meeting?
Why not? Maybe it was, what does that have to do with anything?
Asylum just gave an easter egg which you're looking waay to much in to.
No, I'm not. It was part of the story. You could find files talking about the construction of Arkham City and the fragile mental state, and easy manipulation of Quincy Sharp as well.
Two-Face was wasted period.
At first you said they used too many villains, but now Two-Face was wasted because they didn't use him enough? What constitutes "wasted"? Just the fact that you wanted to see them more, but didn't?
Mad Hatter just pops out of nowhere in the story(if it was side mission ok but it wasn't).
It was a side mission, replay the game, you don't have to do it, I didn't.
Mr Freeze and Batman fought for the sake of fighting,it's a major plot hole really.
No, it's not. I just explained it and your ignoring everything I said.
In other words you are saying that the writers of City were far more interested in TWEEST than a proper narrative. Batman doesn't hang out with Talia unless Ra's is involved.My memory on Asylum is hazy so I'll concede on that front,I'll prolly replay all games during the summer so might spot something that I've forgotten.As for Hatter I'm pretty sure he tricks you in to thinking you've found the cure,you didn't have a choice for that particular mission. Freeze fights Batman cause Harley had to steal the cure,there's no other reason that makes sense.
Regardless I think we're derailing this thread so I'm gonna call it quits.
@entropy_aegis said:
In other words you are saying that the writers of City were far more interested in TWEEST than a proper narrative.
Um, what? No.
Batman doesn't hang out with Talia unless Ra's is involved.
Which has to do with what exactly? Also, yes he does. He dated her for a little while.
My memory on Asylum is hazy so I'll concede on that front,I'll prolly replay all games during the summer so might spot something that I've forgotten.
Ok.
As for Hatter I'm pretty sure he tricks you in to thinking you've found the cure,you didn't have a choice for that particular mission.
Once again, yes you do. I first found out about that mission while watching a video play-through. Didn't even do it myself until I decided to replay the game later.
Freeze fights Batman cause Harley had to steal the cure,there's no other reason that makes sense.
I just told you one. And it made sense. And it was the excuse in game. Do you have actual points, or just rigid beliefs from which you'll never concede making this conversation pointless?
Regardless I think we're derailing this thread so I'm gonna call it quits.
Ok.
No.
@entropy_aegis: 2 tries and one loss... Batman's track record against Slade isn't good at all. Don't make things up. He needed two of his best proteges to beat Deathstroke. I don't recall Deathstroke ever being beaten up by a regular thug.
There is no debating someone who refuses to understand the other side. I don't think you have even played the game. I'm done debating, ramble all you want.
@generator2000 said:
@entropy_aegis: 2 tries and one loss... Batman's track record against Slade isn't good at all. Don't make things up. He needed two of his best proteges to beat Deathstroke. I don't recall Deathstroke ever being beaten up by a regular thug.
There is no debating someone who refuses to understand the other side. I don't think you have even played the game. I'm done debating, ramble all you want.
He kicked the crap out of Deathstroke when Nightwing and Robin helped him,and yes he was humiliated by a thug after fighting Batman,now maybe you should stop making things and I've played all 3 games. Batman can beat Deathstroke but that's besides the point,what are you debating about anyway?" AO has a poor story cause ma man Slade didn't kick more ass" that's what you've been blabbing about.
@marionettegeist said:
@entropy_aegis said:
In other words you are saying that the writers of City were far more interested in TWEEST than a proper narrative.
Um, what? No.
Batman doesn't hang out with Talia unless Ra's is involved.
Which has to do with what exactly? Also, yes he does. He dated her for a little while.
My memory on Asylum is hazy so I'll concede on that front,I'll prolly replay all games during the summer so might spot something that I've forgotten.
Ok.
As for Hatter I'm pretty sure he tricks you in to thinking you've found the cure,you didn't have a choice for that particular mission.
Once again, yes you do. I first found out about that mission while watching a video play-through. Didn't even do it myself until I decided to replay the game later.
Freeze fights Batman cause Harley had to steal the cure,there's no other reason that makes sense.
I just told you one. And it made sense. And it was the excuse in game. Do you have actual points, or just rigid beliefs from which you'll never concede making this conversation pointless?
Regardless I think we're derailing this thread so I'm gonna call it quits.
Ok.
Yes well it wasn't a side mission when I played it,I went for the cure and he just pops out,gets owned (wastes time I might add).This does not make AC a bad game,it means that the story was shoddy and it was,why is that so hard to accept?
So ok you're fine with a Lazarus pit being beneath wonder tower? you're fine with Ra's being in Arkham City when he could have orchestrated it's events from a far,lets just assume it's all hunky dory but then why does Batman go after Ra's ONLY WHEN HE GETS ILL,and why does a a ninja just randomly show up to lead you to him unintentionally just when Batman decides to go after him. My points are perfectly valid,you're looking at the game,I'm looking at the story,Mr Freeze had no reason to fight Batman,instead he chose to waste time engaging in a pointless battle simply so that the screen writer could have Harley show up and steal the cure so that the story could continue.Same goes for Talia offering herself to the Joker,if she was gonna stab him anyway then she should have done it there and then.
The story has plot holes and mischaracterizations.
@adamanouer said:
Remember when there was a time Superhero movies were quite rare? Now they're so common and usually bad that we actually look forward to seeing the very few good ones.
Arkham Knight - Awesome.
Spider-Man 2 - Looks like a complete disaster.
Captain America 2 - Looks awesome.
Arkham knight is a game , my brother also thought that it is a movie :P
I heard they're making a "NEW" villain so with that I'm staying cautiously optimistic.
@entropy_aegis: I read the book. I don't recall that happening to Deathstroke. Batman cannot beat Deathstroke. I gave you more reasons why Origins sucked. If you are slow, just tell me. I've given my opinion and I've heard yours. You don't seem to be able to understand what I am saying.
@entropy_aegis said:
Yes well it wasn't a side mission when I played it,I went for the cure and he just pops out,gets owned (wastes time I might add).
Is it some sort of event trigger by what you've done in the game or something, cause it didn't for me.
So ok you're fine with a Lazarus pit being beneath wonder tower?
Um, yeah. Why shouldn't I be? Seriously, why shouldn't I be? I'm not even sure what your point is here.
you're fine with Ra's being in Arkham City when he could have orchestrated it's events from a far,
But he didn't because he didn't want to. He likes to deal with things personally. So what?
lets just assume it's all hunky dory but then why does Batman go after Ra's ONLY WHEN HE GETS ILL,
He had no reason to go after Ra's before that. He was practically in the middle of a f***in war zone and had other things to deal with.
and why does a a ninja just randomly show up to lead you to him unintentionally just when Batman decides to go after him.
I don't remember that part, so I'll concede.
My points are perfectly valid,you're looking at the game,I'm looking at the story,Mr Freeze had no reason to fight Batman,instead he chose to waste time engaging in a pointless battle simply so that the screen writer could have Harley show up and steal the cure so that the story could continue
I already told you the reason, what are you talking about? "Freeze didn't think Batman would help his wife (well, he thought that Batman was too preoccupied to make it his number one priority, anyway) so he was going to force Batman to find Nora, instead of dealing with more pressing matters. After Batman beats some sense into him, he agrees to help if Batman will look for Nora as well."
Same goes for Talia offering herself to the Joker,if she was gonna stab him anyway then she should have done it there and then.
At first she was just trying to get Joker away from Batman, then she refused to take Joker to the Lazarus pit, causing Joker to decide to hold her at gun point. Then it was just a matter of waiting for the right moment, when he was distracted, to steal back her sword from Joker and kill him with it.
The story has plot holes and mischaracterizations.
Mama Mia. What are the "mischaracterizations"?
@generator2000 said:
@entropy_aegis: I read the book. I don't recall that happening to Deathstroke. Batman cannot beat Deathstroke. I gave you more reasons why Origins sucked. If you are slow, just tell me. I've given my opinion and I've heard yours. You don't seem to be able to understand what I am saying.
Then you need to get your memory checked,or more likely read the actual story instead of looking at the scans.You gave no reasons ,you entire argument comes down to complaining about Deathstroke and Black Mask. Batman can beat Deathstroke.
@marionettegeist said:
@entropy_aegis said:
Yes well it wasn't a side mission when I played it,I went for the cure and he just pops out,gets owned (wastes time I might add).
Is it some sort of event trigger by what you've done in the game or something, cause it didn't for me.
So ok you're fine with a Lazarus pit being beneath wonder tower?
Um, yeah. Why shouldn't I be? Seriously, why shouldn't I be? I'm not even sure what your point is here.
you're fine with Ra's being in Arkham City when he could have orchestrated it's events from a far,
But he didn't because he didn't want to. He likes to deal with things personally. So what?
lets just assume it's all hunky dory but then why does Batman go after Ra's ONLY WHEN HE GETS ILL,
He had no reason to go after Ra's before that. He was practically in the middle of a f***in war zone and had other things to deal with.
and why does a a ninja just randomly show up to lead you to him unintentionally just when Batman decides to go after him.
I don't remember that part, so I'll concede.
My points are perfectly valid,you're looking at the game,I'm looking at the story,Mr Freeze had no reason to fight Batman,instead he chose to waste time engaging in a pointless battle simply so that the screen writer could have Harley show up and steal the cure so that the story could continue
I already told you the reason, what are you talking about? "Freeze didn't think Batman would help his wife (well, he thought that Batman was too preoccupied to make it his number one priority, anyway) so he was going to force Batman to find Nora, instead of dealing with more pressing matters. After Batman beats some sense into him, he agrees to help if Batman will look for Nora as well."
Same goes for Talia offering herself to the Joker,if she was gonna stab him anyway then she should have done it there and then.
At first she was just trying to get Joker away from Batman, then she refused to take Joker to the Lazarus pit, causing Joker to decide to hold her at gun point. Then it was just a matter of waiting for the right moment, when he was distracted, to steal back her sword from Joker and kill him with it.
The story has plot holes and mischaracterizations.
Mama Mia. What are the "mischaracterizations"?
So there is a pit in a cess pool of a giant mega prison? you dont think it stretches belief that it has to be RIGHT THERE,Ra's doesn't like to deal with things personally either.
But that's not my point,my point is that Batman only decided to go after him when he needed the cure,till then he was fine with Ra's running around and when he does go after him voila the entire Ra's al Ghul mythology just happens to be located in Arkham City.
Similarly it's not Freeze's reasoning that bothers me,it's that Harley just randomly shows up(off screen),takes the cure from the vault while they are too busy fighting, that's the real reason for that fight.
Talia could have stabbed him right there,her position was better at that point then it was at the end.
How about Hugo Strange and Two-Face for starters,pretty sure they were badly handled.
@entropy_aegis: batman didn't know Ra's was in Arkham city until he saw the ninja
@entropy_aegis I've read the book. He paid batman a visit at his mansion later on in the book. Ill reread it, but batman was owned by death stroke and he has lost to him afterwards.200% of these vine users agree with me fanboy. Origins story wasn't absolutely horrible, but it was a letdown for multiple reasons to me. It became a repeat of city and asylum. Not every bat story is genius and everyone disagrees with you.
@jayc1324 said:
@entropy_aegis: batman didn't know Ra's was in Arkham city until he saw the ninja
Yet people are arguing that Batman DID know Ra's was there based on the morgue in Arkham Asylum,also the ninja just shows up out of nowhere when Batman needs to find Ra's.
@generator2000 said:
@entropy_aegis I've read the book. He paid batman a visit at his mansion later on in the book. Ill reread it, but batman was owned by death stroke and he has lost to him afterwards.200% of these vine users agree with me fanboy. Origins story wasn't absolutely horrible, but it was a letdown for multiple reasons to me. It became a repeat of city and asylum. Not every bat story is genius and everyone disagrees with you.
I honestly dont care if viners agree with me or not,you still haven't proved why Origins had a terrible story as usual you're just complaining about Deathstroke,and read the arc again,infact read the part where Slade is sweating and wrapping bandages,read his inner monologue and then get back to me.
I was excited,but not as much anymore...Until I heard one small detail won't be included in the game.
@entropy_aegis: Well that's a bad argument for a few reasons. For one, when the ninjas escapes batman batman says "if Ra's al Ghul is in Arkham city I now have a path right to him." He says "if" which means that he didnt know at that point.
Secondly Ra's being in the morgue was an easter egg that a lot of people didn't even see. So its not solid evidence Batman knew anything. Also Ra's being in the morgue doesn't mean he would be in Arkham city.
Lastly Ra's isn't the type of villian that gets captured and goes to prison or jail. When have you ever seen ras in jail? He mostly works behind the scenes so it wouldn't make sense for him to be in a prison city.
And the assassin had been kidnapped by penguins crew after she attacked them and killed 8 of penguins men so she wasn't exactly random. In the Arkham verse penguin likes to put people in the display cases in the museum and that ninjas was special seeing as how she killed 8 men.
@entropy_aegis said:
So there is a pit in a cess pool of a giant mega prison? you dont think it stretches belief that it has to be RIGHT THERE,Ra's doesn't like to deal with things personally either.
The mega prison is a walled-off part of the city, masterminded by Ra's al Ghul... so, no, I don't. Ra's deals with Batman personally all the time. In literally every single one of his original appearances he would walk right up to Batman and start a conversation/fight.
But that's not my point,my point is that Batman only decided to go after him when he needed the cure,till then he was fine with Ra's running around
He had no reason to go after Ra's until then, he had other things to deal with that were more immediately threatening. Besides, did he even know Ra's was in the City at first? The Ra's Easter egg in Asylum was a clue to the player, not Batman.
and when he does go after him voila the entire Ra's al Ghul mythology just happens to be located in Arkham City.
See above.
Similarly it's not Freeze's reasoning that bothers me,it's that Harley just randomly shows up(off screen),takes the cure from the vault while they are too busy fighting, that's the real reason for that fight.
So? What's the problem with that? It furthers the story, and there's an in-story reasoning for it. Everything that happens in a fictional story has an ulterior motive that lies under the in-story one. That's how fiction works.
Talia could have stabbed him right there,her position was better at that point then it was at the end.
Maybe, but she would risk him possibly killing Batman. By the time she unsheathed her sword, the Joker could have already struck. It was safer to just wait. It's not unreasonable to think that the Joker decided to play it safe as well, and took her sword from her afterwards. It's something that's not outright stated, but it's hardly a gaping plot-hole. It's a minor detail, that can be easily filled with a bit of simple logic.
How about Hugo Strange and Two-Face for starters,pretty sure they were badly handled.
Nope. Their personalities were spot-on. The fact that they weren't in the story as much as you wanted them to be, does not mean that their characterization was poor. It has nothing to do with their characterization at all.
Actually I am not excited about the game since Arkham series entered the game per year cycle like COD or Assassins's Creed making the same game over and over adding a few a new things to make it look good(I am looking at you batmobile).
At least they can change that ''dead'' Gotham from Origins
Although I'm really exited for this game, I'm even more exited to see what Rocksteady will make after this game.
@entropy_aegis It wasn't easy Slade and Batman isn't an easy opponent to beat, but Slade won. Origins sucked because it repeated the stories of the other games and did nothing original. The marketing for the game mislead everybody. We were all looking foward to game where Deathstroke would be a prominent character, we thought we'd see original villains as side missions. Deadshot and Lady Shiva shouldn't have been side missions and they should have had other villains as side missions.
The story seemed to be about Black Mask and they should have did that. Instead, they chose to make the Joker the antoganist instead with Bane following up behind him. It was repeat of the last two games. Instead of having Batman fight the assassins multiple times, he just ran over everybody. For skilled killers, they were beaten easily. They could have had the assasins attack Batman several times instead of once. They basically threw away the synopsis of the game. It went from being a classic story to another Batman vs Joker repeat. Bane was boring. He should have been a side mission instead of being a main character. They took characters, like Deathstroke, who could've made the game way more exciting and threw them away. The Joker should've been a side mission as well. If he was to be a character in the main story, they should have had him come into the story in a different way.
The assassins sucked. It was cool the first time because Copperhead was new, Deathstroke was new, hell, BANE was newer. Firefly and Deathstroke ( Bane nd Croc to a lesser extent) were the only boss fights worth mentioning. Shiva and Deadshot were modeled after regular gunmen and ninjas, making them easy to beat, Copperhead was modeled after ninjas too, Croc and Bane were just big henchmen with more life, but it was still entertaining to fight them. TN-1 Bane was EASY. I beat him on the first try.
The game was fun overall because it copied Arkham City completely, but it still lacked many elements and I haven't mentioned all of the bugs the game possesses.
@colliderz: it hasn't entered the cod cycle. Origins was made by a different company so it can be considered a spinoff. Rocksteady hasn't made a batman game since 2011 so going by the main series its been 3 years since we had a batman game. And rocksteady stated this was their last batman game
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