Bit debatable mate, there's been a good few like Paladin, Puma, Kraven, Vulture, Black Tarantula, etc
No I meant street levels
Never said you did. Your issue was posting to showcase striking power....but failed to showcase the context that would make such a feat questionable to use. The context was thankfully then showcased after you were prompted.
That's why I said before posting the scan that I would not post the "entire fight" of the rooftop, I mean I figured any user in the Vine would have understood why I never posted the entire fight to begin with. Instead of saying I was posting an out of context scan, you could of just asked me to post the rest of the scans which I would have gladly done instead of saying I purposely left out other scans because of an agenda I had.
K, but they weren't "full-force" either given he wasn't going into it trying to fight Wolverine.
Okay maybe the word full force was the wrong word I used and I corrected that already
Nope, my position has been consistent since the first post as anyone can see. You can't just say "no u" all the time and expect some sort of acknowledgement of legitimacy based on that.
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to get to here, but I still stand to what I said about Logan's striking power which is what you had an issue with. That was the purpose of the first scan that I posted, in a nut-shell it was supposed to prove that Logan's punches cannot be taken lightly even by someone with the powerset as Spidey. That was the basic point bro
And yet this context was missed when you tried showing off the scan at first
That's why I said you could of asked for me to post other scans which you did indirectly, so I posted how the fight began which wasn't really meant to prove anything since I said to you Logan's best chance of tagging Peter is IF and WHEN the fight drags.
and as stated, he wasn't braced or expecting Wolverine to hit him at that point, so the feat isn't 100% applicable to a regular showing.
I never said it qualifies to be regular since we have seen Logan punch Peter before and doesn't send him flying, the point is that Wolverine's powerset makes him to be the very few street levels who can fight Spidey in a brawl or street fight or MMA and have nothing to worry about, if of course Peter won't be using objects that is.
Keep up.
Sure
Clearly.
Yeah, which is why Peter is shouting about his disdain on someone trying to impersonate Wolverine which I already said he was aware of.
And?
Come now, you even said it yourself that Peter wasn't in a good mood and that he was annoyed. So clearly the punches he was throwing were not gentle ones, I mean that much is obvious
How would he be holding back against someone who he doesn't even know is alive? Once again, please keep up with the debate. I never stated as sucheither.
I never said he was bloodlusted in the fight but you can see in the scan he was kind of ticked off, I mean it's obvious man even if he wasn't sure the logan he was fighting was the real one or not. He even says in his speech bubble which I won't quote (look it up yourself) about strange folks that he is tired of running into, so him running into a Logan imposter didn't make the situation any better and I already am on the debate, I don't know what you are talking about so let's not go in circles here I again stressfully repeat (lol).
Once again, I never stated as such: this is now a overt strawman.
Come now brah, you said Logan's striking can't hurt Spidey which is why you attacked the back-handing scan of Logan on Peter. That's what dragged this debate to levels it never needed to be dragged to, I mean seriously
Then why say he's "not holding back" in your prior posts then? You seem to naturally contradict yourself a lot here.
Well it's not like I said he was morals off or bloodlusted, but anyone can see he is pissed off and even in his own speech bubble he says he needs to cool down. Maybe the word not holding back was wrong on my part but you can see he is ticked off and it's shown with his yelling and strikes. Not to mention after he is back-handed (and sent flying) he clobs Wolverine with a "Superman punch" and Logan drops his cigar, even after the short fight he even yells and says what's wrong with himself. So clearly dude it's not like he was throwing gentle strikes here
Bearing in regards to showcasing the context of the feat (Vulture II destroying a chimney) for the wider audience.
Well sure I'm sure there are folks who destroy chimneys but like I said, it doesn't have relevance to the fight between Logan and Peter because after Peter destroys the chimney, he tells himself he needs to cool down which probably means he was kind of pissed off in that scan. Look at the speech bubble and the scan then you will see the context.
As seen above this is actually very relevant to the argument made, but you can't seem to keep up with what we are discussing so I guess this went over.
Striking power is what we were discussing which was something I clearly pointed in the first scan I posted, this whole thing went South when you said I posted out of context scans where you could have just asked me to post the whole scans. Very simple really, it has nothing to do with weather I can keep up with the debate or not which is something you strangely keep dragging.
You said he "wasn't holding back" which clearly intends for him to be swinging for the fences.
So what was he doing with those punches after he even told himself to cool down? Pimp slaps? Come on, and yeah, swinging for the fences is exactly what he was doing.
Annoyed is better, yeah.
Okay I can go with that
Great, but that doesn't mean that he was in fact bracing or was in fact prepared for a random encounter with whoever was dressed as Wolverine. Doesn't address the above.
Well we don't know what Spidey was thinking when he fought Logan because clearly he was surprised getting a hit like that from Logan which hurt him. So what did he do? He attacked Logan again and punched him, only to get a kick in the gut that sent him flying and his next approach was changing the situation by talking. Yeah we know about him thinking of Wolverine as an imposter, but you can clearly (I say this again) see who is the aggressor and who is not, since Wolverine is even smiling when he delivers a kick to the gut.
It was, and then you showed the context.
Yes I did because you wanted to see the entire fight as to what led them to fight in the first place
I very clearly did given what we've already discussed. Moving from ignorance isn't a valid argument.
No one said it was, it's obvious what were the two things discussed that dragged the debate and by painful means, it seems we are still on it.
I never stated that was what you believed: I merely recontextualised what you were trying to say and showcased how it wasn't that impressive.
Well that's fine, some will say it's impressive and some will say it's not. You saying it's not impressive is just your opinion, just like me saying it's impressive is mine....simple.
Great, but he's meaningless to your argument given how bad his consistency is.
Well like I said before, he is probably a Z-list villian which is why he jobs now. I mean, many villains have followed the same road as Kalibuk who had the potential to be great villains. I mean, the dude was a team buster (or rather let me say an X-Men buster) and now he is reduced by getting owned physically man-handled by street levels like BP (lol)
Surfer can still vastly outclass people even when completely depowered: he's still tremendously strong.
Well.....yeah!!! He put down WWH even though he was depowered from his powers, yet the same SS has BP holding him in a arm-lock while depowered? It's weird, and if the farmer koing SS with a sledgehammer was supposed to be a funny incident, we then have Storm hurting SS with lightning and that's SS at full power (lol) So yeah, even SS can have his PIS moments or WTF moments (lol)
Considering the only counter is "comics aren't real life" and other arguments from incredulity then yeah, I really don't.
Good, then you can understand why comic comparisons comparing them to real life have no bearing which is why you would understand that I can't take it seriously
I didn't miss it, but that direct 1v1 instances are a lot better than "once he annoyed him with a random love-tap" or whatever that was in fact supposed to be.
Well the cool part is, the two of them have had many sparring sessions and not just the love tapping thing which was to show his adamantuim skeleton can be a factor against Spidey. All of their battles you can view them on line and I'm pretty sure you will find that most of the time when Logan tags Peter, Spidey doesn't brush it off since he is stronger clone didn't. Hence the comparison I made of the Punisher punching Spidey and Wolverine punching Spidey
again I never stated this, you just seem to be really prone to strawmen when you can't really get a argument.
Post 143 you said it was a crappy fight, I mean dude you literally just said it in your previous post and then I told you that there are more fights between Spidey and Logan then just the "crappy" rooftop fight.
.it kinda is given you want to scale Wolverine to him in terms of striking. That's analysis 101.
They had three fights:
a) Kaine fails to KO Logan with strikes and so he shoves stingers in Logan's hurt, and he is up in the next panel or so
b) Wolverine literally puts Kain down with an elbow to the back of the head and kick stomp on the skull when the other X-Men distracted him. Of course most likely you will say, CONTEXT
c) Then we Wolverine punching Kaine on the jaw and Kaine hold his jaw after falling on his ass
So that's their encounter in getting physical that I know off and Logan's striking power had a "hand" (no pun intended) in it
while not bracing, which makes taking shots a lot harder to shrug off and do more damage. That's why sucker punches are so dangerous.
Which would be extremely hard if you were to use on them on Spidey because of the Spider-sense, usually blows that he takes from heavy hitters way above his paygrade he usually gets grading shots from them and not direct shots. Kaine usually soaks strikes instead of dodging them and he could use his agility, reflexes and acrobatics to dodge Wolverine if he wanted to. But the problem with him is, he tanks hits which could lead to his downfall against someone like Wolverine.
Incredulity isn't a argument\
Well fine, at this point I'm just saying yeah for the sake of it (lol)
See above. Also by this logic, is any calc that relies on real-life elements or comparisons invalid? What's your response to that?
Well that depends what are you using from the comics but as a general rule NO it doesn't fly. I mean if you compared your Mike Tyson example to .......Catwoman knocking Shiva down with a chair would be reasonable because their both normal humans who are extremely good at martial arts. That would fly, but using Logan and Spidey doesn't cut it because Spidey is meta human (low to mid tier) while Wolverine is a mutant. Which is why you pointed out yourself about the metal part being valid because if you love tapped Mike Tyson (who is just a normal boxing human) then where would you get a hard skeleton that continuously is throwing off poison in your body? That's why the Mike Tyson thing is just laughable, and yeah obviously you wouldn't be able to knock out Mike Tyson but hit him in the sensitive sports as hard as you can (groan, eyes, throat etc) and he will not be brushing off any of those hits.
The "damage" was nothing. All that happened was he yelped.
Ok already so he wasn't damaged by it, my main point is Spidey being hit by Wolverine wouldn't be the same as him being hit by the likes of DD or the Punisher because their just ordinary humans with martial skills. They have nothing to amp their strikes to the point that they become a threat to Spidey, someone like Iron-Fist who is like the Marvel version of Goku (a way toned down version) can amplify strikes to the point where he even one-shot Peter. Wolverine has a hard skeleton that has hurt Spidey before when they fought, and Spidey never brushed them off so the key to Wolverine hurting Spidey with his punches is his adamantuim. And not only that, he can still use pressure points which can quicken and shorten the battle if he needs to.
If Peter was holding back sure, but full bloodlust? Doubt that.
Look at the training room incident where a pissed off Spidey unloaded on Logan but to no avail, pound for pound I don't think Peter is strong enough to knock out Wolverine with just mere punches unless if it was Bone-claw Wolverine,
and as I stated above, he's never been bloodlusted in any of them.
The training room session had him really pissed off and unloading on Logan, he even told everyone not to get into his way as he was yelling "I'm going to beat the living tar out of you!!! Back off Cap, I've got this." I mean there are many more, like a pissed off Peter throws Logan out of a skyscraper building which had unbreakable glass and Logan's up from the drop. Or how Wolverine is punched from New York to Georgia
and is still conscious even when he lands
, Peter doesn't have that striking power to cause that damage. Even WWH didn't KO him with strikes to the head but instead gave him temporal brain damage and he was still up. Peter's best bet of beating Logan is BFR or dumping heavy objects on him, I just don't see him knocking Logan out with just mere punches as shown many times in their fights. I mean the above scan just shows the kind of damage Logan can take that Peter wouldn't dream of giving out
Beats me, you stated Wolverine had the endurance advantage and I showed otherwise.
Well he does have the endurance advanage, not to mention stamina as well since his HF is way higher than Spidey's. You just showed that Peter has great stamina with the scan you posted, that's basically what you did. It's doesn't prove at all to say it's on Logan's level, we know for a fact Peter's HF would do jack for a minute if he was near the probes of Omega-Red yet Logan fought him for 17 hours full strate, on top that he had the military firing rocket launchers, tanks and bazookas on them as the two fought each other. Spidey's HF would best be placed on Deathstroke's or Beast's level, probably slightly above or below....who knows but its not certainly not on Wolverine's level whether he is adamantuim Wolverine or bone-claw Wolverine
Sure, but he hasn't got a endurance feat on that level. His willpower is also nowhere near Pete as well. Sure he might have a better HF so he won't have to deal with trauma as bad, but he can still be KO'd regardless of HF.
Well given his HF he wouldn't need a willpower like Peter, because Peter's willpower wouldn't do anything for him if he was exposed to Omega Red's death probes. Yeah, Logan can get koed but that doesn't translate that Peter (even bloodlusted) can ko him with punches. Peter simply beats him via BFR or dumping heaving objects on him if he doesn't have webbing, I mean if WWH failed to KO him then theres no way in hell Peter of all people is doing it.
that's fine but that's just a singular fight: we also don't know if Logan ran away, had a short rest, was able to escape for just a few minutes, etc. Spidey we know never had a rest, never slept or ate by his own words.
He never had rest, the X-Men took on Omega-Red and they dropped just by being near him. They didn't possess any kind of threat to him until Logan showed up and they went at it for 17 hours, not to mention the military were firing all kinds of ammunition on them. In the Wolverine Origins comic the dude hadn't slept for days, his HF was taxed (which means it wasn't even operating at 100%) and he was eating chunks of flesh from his own arm to feed himself. And yet he had a mission that he had to complete, take on Cyclops, Captain America and a bunch of college mutants with strange powers on top of that. Wolverine's HF is just on another level homles, the only person who is higher than him in that department is Deadpool and the Hulk.
Difference being that he was merely surviving while Spidey was consistently active, stopping crime, and beating supervillains. He also needed food while Pete did not.
The major difference was......his HF wasn't working properly to begin with so he wasn't at 100%. I get the fact you posted this feat of Spidey which is impressive, but it still doesn't put him on Logan's level. No amount of willpower will save him from a nuke at point blank which Logan took from Nitro, blown into a skeleton and a few minutes later grows back normal.
Bit debatable mate, there's been a good few like Paladin, Puma, Kraven, Vulture, Black Tarantula, etc
No I meant street levels
Those guys all mentioned are street tier. The only one debatable is Tarantula.
Never said you did. Your issue was posting to showcase striking power....but failed to showcase the context that would make such a feat questionable to use. The context was thankfully then showcased after you were prompted.
That's why I said before posting the scan that I would not post the "entire fight" of the rooftop, I mean I figured any user in the Vine would have understood why I never posted the entire fight to begin with
Sure but still mistakes etc
you could of just asked me to post the rest of the scans which I would have gladly done instead of saying I purposely left out other scans because of an agenda I had
I never stated as such, merely that you omitted context unknowingly.
and as stated, he wasn't braced or expecting Wolverine to hit him at that point, so the feat isn't 100% applicable to a regular showing.
I never said it qualifies to be regular since we have seen Logan punch Peter before and doesn't send him flying, the point is that Wolverine's powerset makes him to be the very few street levels who can fight Spidey in a brawl or street fight or MMA and have nothing to worry about, if of course Peter won't be using objects that is
Sure
And?
Come now, you even said it yourself that Peter wasn't in a good mood and that he was annoyed. So clearly the punches he was throwing were not gentle ones, I mean that much is obvious
Sure, but that's mostly resolved so no need to go over it again.
How would he be holding back against someone who he doesn't even know is alive? Once again, please keep up with the debate. I never stated as sucheither.
I never said he was bloodlusted in the fight but you can see in the scan he was kind of ticked off, I mean it's obvious man even if he wasn't sure the logan he was fighting was the real one or not. He even says in his speech bubble which I won't quote (look it up yourself) about strange folks that he is tired of running into, so him running into a Logan imposter didn't make the situation any better
He still wasn't braced or ready for a fight with Wolverine mind you, he was just annoyed that someone tried stealing his moniker.
Once again, I never stated as such: this is now a overt strawman.
Come now brah, you said Logan's striking can't hurt Spidey
Erm no I didn't lol. Quote me anywhere stating as such.
which is why you attacked the back-handing scan of Logan on Peter
I attacked it because it was a terrible example to use.
Then why say he's "not holding back" in your prior posts then? You seem to naturally contradict yourself a lot here.
Well it's not like I said he was morals off or bloodlusted, but anyone can see he is pissed off
Annoyed sure, but "pissed off"? I don't see that. He's cranky rather than bloodlusted like with Fisk.
Bearing in regards to showcasing the context of the feat (Vulture II destroying a chimney) for the wider audience.
Well sure I'm sure there are folks who destroy chimneys but like I said, it doesn't have relevance to the fight between Logan and Peter because after Peter destroys the chimney
It does because it shows Pete wasn't hurling actual 100% full force punches as was inferred before.
As seen above this is actually very relevant to the argument made, but you can't seem to keep up with what we are discussing so I guess this went over.
Striking power is what we were discussing which was something I clearly pointed in the first scan I posted, this whole thing went South when you said I posted out of context scans
...which you did and then corrected.
Great, but that doesn't mean that he was in fact bracing or was in fact prepared for a random encounter with whoever was dressed as Wolverine. Doesn't address the above.
Well we don't know what Spidey was thinking when he fought Logan because clearly he was surprised getting a hit like that from Logan which hurt him. So what did he do? He attacked Logan again and punched him, only to get a kick in the gut that sent him flying and his next approach was changing the situation by talking. Yeah we know about him thinking of Wolverine as an imposter, but you can clearly (I say this again) see who is the aggressor and who is not, since Wolverine is even smiling when he delivers a kick to the gut
Him being aggressive doesn't mean he was bracing or that he was prepared, only that he was annoyed and one could argue distracted because his Spider Sense didn't kick in when he was fighting, meaning he was ignoring it due to being off his game.
Great, but he's meaningless to your argument given how bad his consistency is.
Well like I said before, he is probably a Z-list villian which is why he jobs now. I mean, many villains have followed the same road as Kalibuk who had the potential to be great villains. I mean, the dude was a team buster (or rather let me say an X-Men buster) and now he is reduced by getting owned physically man-handled by street levels like BP
I mean teambuster is debatable but yeah he isn't nearly as good as he was now.
Surfer can still vastly outclass people even when completely depowered: he's still tremendously strong.
Well.....yeah!!! He put down WWH even though he was depowered from his powers, yet the same SS has BP holding him in a arm-lock while depowered? It's weird, and if the farmer koing SS with a sledgehammer was supposed to be a funny incident, we then have Storm hurting SS with lightning and that's SS at full power (lol) So yeah, even SS can have his PIS moments or WTF moments (lol)
This is true but there are some legitimate reasons for those low-ends, namely him letting BP get on the armlock and then the farmer feat was when he was trapped on Earth and way weaker (couldn't bust though a nuke-proof dome, for instance)
Considering the only counter is "comics aren't real life" and other arguments from incredulity then yeah, I really don't.
Good, then you can understand why comic comparisons comparing them to real life have no bearing
An argument from incredulity (which is EXACTLY what you admit right after this by adding in your personal opinion) is not legitimate as it's a argument from feeling rather than logic.
which is why you would understand that I can't take it seriously
Sure, but that's still a stance from incredulity.
again I never stated this, you just seem to be really prone to strawmen when you can't really get a argument.
Post 143 you said it was a crappy fight
Erm no, you were the only one that used "crappy fight" in all of the responses. I did Ctrl + F and the only results were from you, so yeah that's a strawman intentional or not. I just say that the love-tap was shitty.
.it kinda is given you want to scale Wolverine to him in terms of striking. That's analysis 101.
They had three fights:
a) Kaine fails to KO Logan with strikes and so he shoves stingers in Logan's hurt, and he is up in the next panel or so
b) Wolverine literally puts Kain down with an elbow to the back of the head and kick stomp on the skull when the other X-Men distracted him. Of course most likely you will say, CONTEXT
So Kaine overpowers him for A, B is unfair given he was ambushed and not bracing and C was a cheap shot. Good to know.
See above. Also by this logic, is any calc that relies on real-life elements or comparisons invalid? What's your response to that?
Well that depends what are you using from the comics but as a general rule NO it doesn't fly
I mean....that's your opinion but I think a vast majority of Viners would disagree with you there given how mainstream calcs are and accepted the practise is of comparisons.
The "damage" was nothing. All that happened was he yelped.
Ok already so he wasn't damaged by it, my main point is Spidey being hit by Wolverine wouldn't be the same as him being hit by the likes of DD or the Punisher because their just ordinary humans with martial skills
Sure, but love-tapping isn't the best way of showing this.
and as I stated above, he's never been bloodlusted in any of them.
The training room session had him really pissed off and unloading on Logan, he even told everyone not to get into his way as he was yelling "I'm going to beat the living tar out of you!!! Back off Cap, I've got this."
Well hang on there, he was annoyed about what was going on and wanted a scrap, but we are talking about bloodlust: the kind of state where he's aiming to kill someone, not just beat them up or be annoyed. That's definitely not a 1:1 comparison.
Peter doesn't have that striking power to cause that damage. Even WWH didn't KO him with strikes to the head but instead gave him temporal brain damage and he was still up
To KO him? I think he does, Logan isn't immune to street tiers knocking him out.
Peter's best bet of beating Logan is BFR or dumping heavy objects on him, I just don't see him knocking Logan out with just mere punches as shown many times in their fights. I mean the above scan just shows the kind of damage Logan can take that Peter wouldn't dream of giving out
Beats me, you stated Wolverine had the endurance advantage and I showed otherwise.
Well he does have the endurance advanage, not to mention stamina as well since his HF is way higher than Spidey's
I don't think he does. HF just makes him more tanky, but Spidey has the better actual direct endurance to push though.
His willpower is also nowhere near Pete as well. Sure he might have a better HF so he won't have to deal with trauma as bad, but he can still be KO'd regardless of HF.
Well given his HF he wouldn't need a willpower like Peter, because Peter's willpower wouldn't do anything for him if he was exposed to Omega Red's death probes
HF and willpower fulfil different means. I don't think HF alone is going to assist.
that's fine but that's just a singular fight: we also don't know if Logan ran away, had a short rest, was able to escape for just a few minutes, etc. Spidey we know never had a rest, never slept or ate by his own words.
He never had rest, the X-Men took on Omega-Red and they dropped just by being near him. They didn't possess any kind of threat to him until Logan showed up and they went at it for 17 hours
See we don't know that though, it is possible one or both took cover or managed to move around a bit.
Difference being that he was merely surviving while Spidey was consistently active, stopping crime, and beating supervillains. He also needed food while Pete did not.
The major difference was......his HF wasn't working properly to begin with so he wasn't at 100%. I get the fact you posted this feat of Spidey which is impressive, but it still doesn't put him on Logan's level
I don't agree.
No amount of willpower will save him from a nuke at point blank which Logan took from Nitro, blown into a skeleton
That's not willpower though, that's just his regen healing him. That Nitro explosion wasn't even town-level anyway so I really don't think it was a nuke by any means. Comparing this to Spidey having to keep brawling Morlun for 8 hours straight while suffering from broken ribs and numerous injuries, barely able to stand but still continuing to scrap, that's actual raw will.
Those guys all mentioned are street tier. The only one debatable is Tarantula.
But in powerset they should be above the likes of DD or the Punisher, even Cap (I take it because he is enhanced and not peak) sent Spidey with a punch that made him dizzy. My point is, if street levels can send Spidey flying with their attacks or hurt Spidey with their attacks, they should have some form of powerset. Which is why I made the example of Iron-Fist and Wolverine, if someone like DD can hurt Peter with kicks and punches then there's something wrong with the writers. Logan only hangs with Peter because H-F, skill (which really is not that much of a factor) and his hard skeleton which is something most peak humans don't have to cotend with Spidey.
Sure but still mistakes etc
Okay then, fine-whatever
I never stated as such, merely that you omitted context unknowingly.
Wrong friend, I purposely left out the other scans to focus on one scan that showed the striking power of Logan. If you had simply asked I would have posted the rest of the scans but since you "indirectly' asked, I decided to post the scans that came before the scan I posted to hunt out this context issue you kept bringing up
Sure, but that's mostly resolved so no need to go over it again.
Okay then I take it we move on from here? Good
He still wasn't braced or ready for a fight with Wolverine mind you, he was just annoyed that someone tried stealing his moniker.
Sure but what was Spidey expecting? He attacks a guy who he thinks is impersonating Wolverine and doesn't expect the guy to fight back after Peter attacks him? Come on
Erm no I didn't lol. Quote me anywhere stating as such
In your first post quoting me, you stated 2 things which was Logan cannot KO Spidey with his strike and also that he can't hurt Spidey, I then countered with the scans then you changed your mind and said his hits do hurt. I mean you literally disagreed when I said Wolverine has the striking power to hurt Peter, the issue with you was....the striking power that I was talking about. Ah now
I attacked it because it was a terrible example to use.
Dude come on, it's not a terrible example, I mean I provided 2 examples and you said they were both bad. I brought up the Kaine fight and you also shot it down with context this and context that. So I basically saved myself the trouble by simply saying check out their fights online where you will see that everytime Logan strikes Spidey, Spidey is hurt or he feels the attacks from Logan. Just say you didn't like the example I brought up, but it still made my point about Logan's striking power for a street level who's strength doesn't go beyond 2 tons.
Annoyed sure, but "pissed off"? I don't see that. He's cranky rather than bloodlusted like with Fisk.
Well obviously that's not the way I pointed it, even with what he did to Fisk he still showed mercy towards the Kingpin (loL)
It does because it shows Pete wasn't hurling actual 100% full force punches as was inferred before.
Ok so he was wasn't throwing 100% of punches, maybe he was throwing 60% for arguments sake. That's enough to tell me that he is serious and not playing around, I mean he was ticked off in almost the whole issue in the book like here:
He looks pretty ticked off to me, and here to show you his state of mind, this is him after his short scuffle with Wolverine:
So yeah he probably wasn't going all out with his punches on Logan but he sure as well wasn't playing with him either, lol
Him being aggressive doesn't mean he was bracing or that he was prepared, only that he was annoyed and one could argue distracted because his Spider Sense didn't kick in when he was fighting, meaning he was ignoring it due to being off his game.
Well as you said, that could have been the reason but who is to say that his Spider-Sense was even working? Like I said, Logan's only chance at tagging Peter is if the fight drags but not in the way it's shown in the scans I posted.
I mean teambuster is debatable but yeah he isn't nearly as good as he was now.
Yeah that's why I put in brackets X-Men, if he is jobbing now then it shows writers have no use him
This is true but there are some legitimate reasons for those low-ends, namely him letting BP get on the armlock and then the farmer feat was when he was trapped on Earth and way weaker (couldn't bust though a nuke-proof dome, for instance)
Ok I can understand the BP part but being koed by a farmer with a sledgehammer? That's as funny as having the Hulk nearly being strangled to death by a python, talk about low end feats (lo)
An argument from incredulity (which is EXACTLY what you admit right after this by adding in your personal opinion) is not legitimate as it's a argument from feeling rather than logic.
Well you are the one who brought it up and I told you that you can't compare the Mike Tyson issue with Spider-Man and Wolverine. I then said to you there are some instances you can compare from comic books to real life which is why I brought up Lady Shiva being dropped by a chair on the back from Catwoman. Instances like that, obviously since you are more likely to come across in real life someone almost skilled as Lady Shiva then come across someone with Spider-Man's or Wolverine's powers (lol)
Sure, but that's still a stance from incredulity.
Well okay then but I still stand to my statement, LOL
Erm no, you were the only one that used "crappy fight" in all of the responses. I did Ctrl + F and the only results were from you, so yeah that's a strawman intentional or not. I just say that the love-tap was shitty.
Ah-ah, you were the who called the fight crappy then I added the brackets on crappy fight because I found it strange that you said the fight was crappy, maybe because you didn't like it or didn't like how Peter performed in that fight? Who knows
So Kaine overpowers him for A, B is unfair given he was ambushed and not bracing and C was a cheap shot. Good to know.
a) Well A he tried knocking Logan out and that failed, so that literally throws your logic out the door that Peter can knock out Wolverine when a stronger clone couldn't do it. Yeah since knuckles were not getting the job done, he then used stingers which dropped Logan and yet was up the next panel (lol)
b) Ok sure maybe the outcome would have been different if the fight was one on one, but hey if we removed Wolverine from that situation and placed there DD or the Punisher I doubt that they would have knocked him out like the way Logan did (lol)
c) Yeah, what do you think would of happened if the Punisher threw a cheap shot on him? I mean, if Frank almost cracked his knuckles punching Peter I could only imagine what would have happened if he punched Kaine
I mean....that's your opinion but I think a vast majority of Viners would disagree with you there given how mainstream calcs are and accepted the practise is of comparisons.
I'm not doubting that it's not my opinion just like you are pointing out......your opinion. I'm not sure how long you've been on the Vine but you will find that comparing comics to real life situations is something here on the Vine that's usually rejected. I mean there's nothing really to compare between Mike Tyson and yourself to Wolverine and Spider-Man (lol)
Sure, but love-tapping isn't the best way of showing this
Well I think it, I mean obviously if I used that scan to say that Wolverine can beat Spidey that would really be silly because it doesn't prove anything. The love-tap was to show how hard Logan's skeleton is and how it would be a factor if he actually fought Spidey, because the only thing that will keep Logan in the fight (if Peter doesn't find ways to outsmart him) against Spidey is H-F and the hard skeleton which Logan's street level pears don't have. That was the point
Well hang on there, he was annoyed about what was going on and wanted a scrap, but we are talking about bloodlust: the kind of state where he's aiming to kill someone, not just beat them up or be annoyed. That's definitely not a 1:1 comparison.
Well if he was bloodlusted he would be ripping off heads, lol. But even in a bloodlusted state, Peter can't knock it out Wolverine with just mere knuckles when people far stronger than Peter have failed to do. Sure, he has other options in beating Logan like BFR or dumping heavy objects on him, that still counts as a win
To KO him? I think he does, Logan isn't immune to street tiers knocking him out.
Well his H-F still varies because yes he has been knocked out by street tiers, I mean even a freaking deer knocked him out (lol). But he has more feats of taking hits from heavy hitters way above Spidey's paygrade for us to assume that street levels can beat him, of course you also have to look at his mindset and that's usually him being lazy and just tanking stuff. I mean Black Panther himself couldn't have said it better himself "Your fighting style is based on your ability to take damage. You can't win this!!!!"
I don't think he does. HF just makes him more tanky, but Spidey has the better actual direct endurance to push though.
Wolverine's advantage over Peter is stamina, endurance and skill while everything else goes to Spidey. Who really needs endurance to push through if you can almost heal from anything, having a healing factor that is probably only behind the Hulk? With his HF, Logan has done things that Spidey's HF can only get him so far
HF and willpower fulfil different means. I don't think HF alone is going to assist
I don't know what makes Spidey's willpower so special, I mean it won't be of use if you have a nuke blow up in your face or being punched from one state or country to another
See we don't know that though, it is possible one or both took cover or managed to move around a bit.
They were literally all over each other without a care in the world with what the military were doing to them, Wolverine (from a full classic yellow and blue costume) was literally in his underwear before he dropped after a 17 hour battle. I'll try and find the comic because it's old, but if you type a google search it should pop and you can check out for yourself how the battle went.
I don't agree.
That's fine, you don't have to
That's not willpower though, that's just his regen healing him. That Nitro explosion wasn't even town-level anyway so I really don't think it was a nuke by any means.
But it's still impressive because we know Spidey doesn't have that kind of HF to survive an explosion like that
Comparing this to Spidey having to keep brawling Morlun for 8 hours straight while suffering from broken ribs and numerous injuries, barely able to stand but still continuing to scrap, that's actual raw will.
it's impressive but it still doesn't put him on Wolverine's level.The one major difference is that Spidey has durability which is also helped by his healing factor, Wolverine doesn't have super human durability because he is still human (mutant, but still human) and his skin-tissue are that to a normal human while Peter's is super human. Wolverine for all I care probably doesn't have a will, maybe that's because his HF takes care of things will power cannot.
@ultraphoenix: The timeline issues with made it an elseworld story, with it being listed in a different universe. The story itself also never ended up being acknowledged in the 616 either after such as Logan never being possessed by the Phoenix force, Phoenix gun never being an actual thing etc. it was just a self contained wacky story that did it’s own thing.
@themongoose: I agree, I always valued Batman vs Spider-Man, Wolverine vs Spider-Man and Captain America vs Spider-Man as the best match ups for Spidey, I don't know for you
Hmmm boxing match I’m going wolverine. Spidey is a nightmare opponent with his agility and spidey sense but wolvie is too much of a tank. With the space confined to a ring and limited to hands only it seems like the setting solely hinders Spider-Man. This fight staying close quarters and minus all the acrobats favors Wolverine’s strengths.
@god_spawn: The storyline is from the Astonishing Spider-Man and Wolverine #5 I think, the storyline was complete whacho like it had story events of Peter travelling in time and living like a caveman, Wolverine mutating and all that other weird stuff. I just left it after reading 5 issues because from there, I didn't know what the hell was going on with the story (lol)
Peter should win every time. The stats gap is too wide. Peter can't kill or knock him out long enough, but he would still be slapping the dogshit out of Logan, until he wins by unanimous decision. Logan is fast so he might manage to land a few punches throughout the bout, but Peter has been hit by characters several times stronger and gotten up, no problem. Should be an easy win. The only factor he has to worry about is hurting his own hands, possibly breaking his wrist, shattering his knuckles, when he is punching Logan in round 1. He is smart enough to pull his punches even when bloodlusted.
@god_spawn: But the timeline issues got fixed by the minute men, and the only place that lists an alternate universe also lists them as a 616 versions. The characters themselves didn't actually change.
As for the Phoenix gun, in the final issue Beast makes a note to himself to create something like that in the future, the time diamonds appear again in other stories, and Logan using the Phoenix bullet is referenced.
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