Thorbuster Iron Man vs Thor

This!

I see your points. What are your thoughts on the Z Gas Gun and that scan about it above? That might be the only evidence which I've seen suggesting Iron Man having an upper hand against a herald tier character.

Thor.

@ganstaz003: dude the closest thing to read comic this guy ever did is reading characters wiki pages

And he is the biggest ironman hater on the vine

As I said before, Tony beat Thor before, along side 3 other teams

At weaker armor took his hits while knowingly not holding back or while Thor was mind controlled and deal damage to him many times

Tony is hearrld lvl? Of course not, did he beat Thor before? At least once

@noone1996: Absolutely nothing to do with me not liking the feat per se. I don't even care about Surfer tbh. Regarding the walls, it doesn't show him break through them in that scan and he himself isn't sure if he even could in the one before that. What I said is there are gases throughout space that he likely resists without difficulty in reply to you asking if he has any other gas related feats. Gas may be a weakness to him. Its actually a pretty common plot device for taking out high tier characters when a writer wants them to be captured. Thor has been taken out by gas a few times.

@spambot: It's only a plot device if the character in question has shown resistance to gaseous attacks. You don't just assume certain attacks don't work against characters just because they are powerful or have withstood unknown space gases. The Juggernaut is extremely durable and strong, yet sonics harm him.

@noone1996: Its a plot device regardless. Not all plot devices imply pis or wis. I think we'd need to know more about how z gas works to try and say whether Surfer should be immune to it.

@spambot: ...or we can show scans of Surfer being immune or resistant to gases lol.

I still don't see how it benefited or furthered the plot by just keeping him trapped in there for like 2 pages.

Not discrediting the scan for its time. However, Silver Surfer does have control over the fundamental makeup of the universe, such as matter and energy via his access to the Power Cosmic. So if those gases are based on what Silver Surfer has control over, then there shouldn't be any reason why he couldn't simply control and therefore nullify them. Him not being able to in that instance can be passed off as a plot device. I believe that's what Spambot is trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong).

That Z Gas Gun feat is somewhat vague in that it doesn't fully state its origin and what it's comprised of. Is it a magically enchanted gas? Did Stark obtain it from a special source? These are things which aren't clear.

@ganstaz003: Fair enough, but using the "he's got the power cosmic so he can basically do anything" card doesn't apply. With that same argument, could he not turn off the pain triggers in his brain to prevent being hurt? Is it a plot device every time someone manages to harm him? You could go on and on about what 'should' and 'shouldn't happen against the Surfer due to his hax powers. Based on my understanding, spambot was saying that Surfer should have immunity to all gases since he encounters cosmic and space gases all the time, but that assumption is even more vague than the Z-gas itself.

@noone1996: I'm not necessarily saying he should have immunity. What I'm saying is basically 3 things:

1. That era of his depictions in comics showed him having a lot of low end sort of feats. ie the Mexicans, him not being certain he can break through those granite walls, etc. I've read a few of those comics from that volume and he doesn't really come across as that powerful compared to his later portrayals.

2. Him being felled by some gas seems kind of an outlier for him as a character and it was common for writers in the 60's/70's to use plot devices like gas to have a story go where they want it to. Writing back then tended to be pretty simplistic and writers didn't really care how realistic it seemed. I've read a fair share of comics from the 60's/70's and that is why a lot of feats from that era get discounted. Because of bad writing.

3. I would think Surfer's powers would give him some degree of defense against gas. Much like how I think he was pretty much made to be resistant to most forms of toxin, radiation and such. Maybe someone else can think of instances when he has encountered gases and whether they affected him.

I'm obviously not implying that he should be able to do anything using the Power Cosmic. Of course, if certain characters who are more powerful than him (aka Odin, Galactus, Tyrant and etc.) attempt to use their attacks on him, then he shouldn't be able to do anything about it. That's because those characters have even more control over the fundamental components of the universe. There's obviously levels. Silver Surfer has control over practically all cosmic components, mainly comprised of matter and energy. However, he only has a specific degree / level of control over those things. Someone like Galactus has vastly more control over those same things. Meanwhile, characters like Odin have attacks that Silver Surfer has no control over (magic). Not just that, but Odin also has magic that is very powerful. More powerful than Silver Surfer's access and control over the Power Cosmic.

My point is that Tony Stark hasn't shown the same level of control over the fundamental components of the universe compared to Silver Surfer. Therefore, it's safe to assume that anything Tony Stark uses that are based on the fundamental components of nature which Silver Surfer can control, Silver Surfer could nullify and rendered them things ineffective and Tony Stark wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

However, if the Z Gas Gun is a special type of gas, such as having mystical elements to it and if it's something that Tony Stark obtained from a special source, then it's obviously understandable as to why it would affect even someone like Silver Surfer.

As for the pain triggers, I don't think he really gets hurt by any character that is below herald level. So there wouldn't be any need for that there. Any character that is herald level or significantly above should simply be able to bypass his ability to turn off the pain triggers. A skyfather could still make Surfer feel pain even if Surfer turns off his pain triggers for example.

@ganstaz003: You are over complicating and overthinking this. This has nothing to do with controlling fundamental components of the universe. You are basically saying that, because Surfer is herald level and powerful, that he can just automatically, without any questions asked or explanation, nullify ANYTHING as long as it's weaker than him. That's a no-limit fallacy if I ever heard one. A baseless blanket statement too. I guess when Doom uses tech that's capable of draining Surfer's power that's above his fundamental control of the universe? Or what about when the High Evolutionary did it using Stark tech? What's the explanation there? Everything you say is based on sketchy one-sided speculation. Whatever narrative fits what you believe I guess.

Your explanation for the pain triggers makes no sense at all. How would anybody have any control over Norrin's pain center in his brain just by being more powerful than him? Don't you think he'd want to turn off his pain triggers if he was fighting someone like Skaar? Or does Hulk's son's brute strength alone overpower Surfer's cosmic fundamental controls over himself and the universe? I knew you'd lowball and find some ridiculous excuse to shrug off the scan. You've proven once again that you ignore facts and make horrible excuses with nothing to back it up except your 3rd grade level biased interpretations. I'm done.

Iron Man still wins. Holding his own against a character infinitely more powerful than standard Thor is enough for the win.

@lord-parallax:

Yes but when Morales off he won't bebe holding back.

Wasn't Iron Man just powering his suit by absorbing King Thor's magical attacks? Regular Thor doesn't use much magic attacks so the suit would be nearly useless, or no more useful than any regular suit. Thor wins.

At first he wasn't. When he swept in for a punch that knocked him on his behind and made him wipe blood from his lip, he hadn't absorbed energy yet. Toward the end, it can be argued that Thor stopped channeling Odin force energy into the suit. The armor was still powered by a gem that was stated to have the capability to power Earth indefinitely. If you knew how much energy we consumed, you'd know that that kind of power is crazy powerful. His armor ran on that power.

My thoughts are very clear and I've simplified my arguments as much as I could. I hope I don't have to simplify it any further! I wouldn't say I'm overthinking this. However, I have definitely performed an objective, unbiased in depth analysis. My arguments are backed up by actual facts!

Since Tony Stark uses natural items constituted of matter (a fundamental component of the universe which Silver Surfer has control over) to develop weapons, Silver Surfer can absolutely control those said weapons due to his ability to control matter. Since he can control them, he can also nullify them, rendering them ineffective. So yes! It has EVERYTHING to do with controlling fundamental components of the universe.

What I am saying in regards to Silver Surfer is that he has control over the fundamental building blocks of the universe. Anything Tony Stark builds on his own, they will consist of things that are related to the fundamental building blocks of the universe (matter & energy). Therefore, Silver Surfer can control anything Tony Stark builds on his own. There's no need for any new questions or explanations as answers and explanations have already been provided. The answer and explanation is simple! Silver Surfer can control the fundamental components of the universe (matter & energy) at an astronomically higher level than Tony Stark. Any weapon Tony Stark builds on his own will consist of the fundamental components of the universe (matter & energy). Therefore, Silver Surfer can control anything that Tony Stark could build on his own. I'm correct in saying that Silver Surfer can effectively nullify any attacks by characters weaker than him, that is related to the fundamental components of the universe (matter & energy). It's not a no limits fallacy! If anything, you or anybody else saying that Iron Man could take on a character that is at herald tier / level or above when he has never shown that ability in a consistent basis is a no limits fallacy. If assumptions are going to be made that Iron Man using prep time could beat Silver Surfer, then why not go a couple of steps further and also assume that Iron Man with prep could also beat Odin, or Galactus, or Eternity, or Mistress Death, or even Living Tribunal? I hope you get the drift here. Iron man can't beat Silver Surfer for the very same reason that he can't beat those aforementioned characters that I've mentioned. Those aforementioned characters also have astronomically greater control over reality that anything Iron man has shown so far to be able to do. Any weapon that Tony Stark builds, those characters can easily nullify the same way Silver Surfer can. Why? Because those aforementioned characters have greater control over the very technology or weapon that Tony Stark could build.

Iron man isn't going to beat Magneto in a pure electromagnetic battle. Why? Because Magneto has far greater control over electromagnetism than Tony Stark. So saying Magneto could not be defeated by Tony Stark in a pure electromagnetic battle isn't a no limits fallacy. Iron man is not going to be able to beat Ultron in a hacking battle. Why? Because Ultron has far greater control over technology and has far greater hacking abilities than Iron man. So it's not a no limits fallacy to claim that Ultron couldn't lose to Iron Man in a hacking battle either.

It would be a no limits fallacy to claim that Silver Surfer could beat every character using his abilities from the Power Cosmic. For example, if I were to claim that Silver Surfer could kill every character, no matter how powerful they were by using his life force draining ability, then that would be a no limits fallacy. Just because it worked on a human or another herald level character, there is no reason to assume that it would also work on sky fathers or abstracts. Silver Surfer has to first show that he could successfully use it on characters of such levels before we rightly claim that he can. Otherwise, it'd be a no limits fallacy. Likewise, claiming Iron man could beat any character using prep time is also a no limits fallacy. Iron Man might have defeated human level characters or other planetary level characters using prep time. However, there's no reason to assume that he could also defeat herald tier characters or above using prep time as well. If Iron man hasn't shown that he can on a consistent basis, then there's no reason to assume he can. Otherwise, that'd also be a no limits fallacy.

Of course, there are tech users out there who Silver Surfer can't affect or beat. That's because those tech users have shown far greater control over reality than Silver Surfer himself. Such as the TARDIS from Doctor Who or Celestial tech for example. So Silver Surfer wouldn't be able to affect such characters and such tech. However, Iron man isn't one of those characters, nor does he possess tech of such magnitudes.

Silver Surfer can't really be beaten by other characters who are less powerful than himself. That's because Silver Surfer doesn't have an exploitable weakness like Superman, Gladiator, Hyperion and etc. Those characters have specific radiation weaknesses or emotional weaknesses. Therefore, they can be exploited by less powerful characters under certain scenarios. However, that doesn't apply to Silver Surfer. So based on evidence, Silver Surfer can only truly be defeated by characters more powerful than himself.

As I've already stated previously, magical / mystical energy is something that Silver Surfer doesn't have control over. So Doctor Doom is justified in being able to affect Silver Surfer using magical / mystical energy. Even if Doctor Doom uses tech, Doctor Doom is shown to be a character, throughout his history to combine both magic and tech. His armor itself is partly technological and partly magical / mystical. So Dr Doom is justified in being able to affect Silver Surfer using tech consisting of magical / mystical energy. On the other hand, Tony Stark is someone who relies purely on tech. Not to mention, his tech isn't advanced enough (from an extraterrestrial perspective of course) to affect someone like Silver Surfer.

When Tony Stark can become a sky father or above using prep time in a consistent basis all on his own, only then would he qualify to be put in the same sentence / breath as High Evolutionary. The intellectual discrepancy between Tony Stark and High Evolutionary is even greater than between Tony Stark and Dr Doom. Tony Stark is a full blown retard in front of High Evolutionary. High Evolutionary has become a sky father and beyond in a consistent basis using prep time and his intellect. You can't even begin to compare him to Tony Stark at all! High Evolutionary might have the tech and ability to affect Silver Surfer. However, it by no means follows that Tony Stark also could. High Evolutionary's tech allows him to operate at sky father levels whilst Tony Stark's best tech allows him to operate at a puny planetary level. So High Evolutionary is also justified in being able to affect Silver Surfer. Tony Stark isn't due to the reasons provided. Those arguments you're using here is classified as a 'false equivalence' fallacy.

Silver Surfer doesn't need to turn off his pain triggers against any character that is less powerful than himself, such as Iron Man, Spiderman and etc. Why? Because those characters simply can't hurt him in the first place to make him feel pain.

Secondly, there's no reason to assume that Silver Surfer even experiences pain the same way we humans do. Ultron is a machine. Yet even he is said to experience pain in some form or another. However, his experience of pain shouldn't be assumed to be the same as humans. Nor should Silver Surfer's.

Thirdly, very often, a more powerful character means a character having more control over reality / universe. Therefore, if Silver Surfer is fighting a character more powerful than himself, such as a sky father like Odin, they could literally turn on Silver Surfer's pain triggers even if Silver Surfer turns it off. They could have more control over Silver Surfer's pain triggers than Silver Surfer himself has over his own pain triggers. Odin is a reality warper who has done similar things before. So it's not a stretch to say he couldn't do that either.

Continue to use your ad hominem attacks. I've tried to be as civilized, respectful, rational and as mature as possible in this discussion. However, if you are unable to not use ad hominem attacks and not make this discussion personal, then this only speaks volumes about you as a debater.

Well, you heard it hear first, ladies and gentleman.

Silver Surfer is immune to everything unless it's more powerful than him or sub-par magic is being used.

Amazing logic here 10/10.

I guess the High Evolutionary used magic here too then?

Gallery

Also, Iron Man has already countered Magneto's magnetism, so just because you don't like it that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Iron Man's use tech to knock out Norrin, just because you don't like it that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'm not going to respond to that ridiculous wall of text. Literally everything that's written there is pure interpretation and opinion based analysis about comics and characters. Not a single scan, link, or any form of evidence was provided. Not even worth my time.

Silver Surfer comes in and wins because the fundamental components of the universe are what allows him to the fundamental components of the universe thus making him the fundamental components of the universe when he faced and the fundamental components of the universe because once he did it the fundamental components of the universe and smack him in the fundamental components of the universe after he´s done the fundamental components of the universe and sits on his throne the fundamental components of the universe made of primary adamantium the fundamental components of the universe and that´s why he wins.

QFT.

Silver Surfer is more powerful than Iron Man due to the following FACTS:

1. A more powerful character means a character either has greater all around capabilities, greater destructive capacity or simply greater control / authority over reality / universe.

2. Silver Surfer has greater destructive capacity than Iron Man based on the following evidence:

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111201214/5494649-15qc13f.jpg = Silver Surfer destroys a planet. Until Iron Man does something to that level or greater using purely his own abilities, Silver Surfer will have greater destructive capacity.

Silver Surfer has greater all around capabilities because everything Iron Man can do using his tech, Silver Surfer can also do using the Power Cosmic, but at a higher level, along with being able to do various other stuff that Iron Man can't do. I'm unaware of anything Iron Man can do using his tech that Silver Surfer can't also do using the Power Cosmic. So if there is anything, please free to provide the evidences. Otherwise, Silver Surfer evidently has greater all around capabilities.

Here are things Silver Surfer can do that Iron Man can't to my knowledge:

http://i.imgur.com/QFpPQQk.jpg = Silver Surfer can exist without a body.

http://i.imgur.com/Fx4vNV9.jpg = Silver Surfer can experience all time streams at once.

These are two things alone that Iron Man hasn't shown the ability to do. There are far more things but I can't list them all as they're too long. This ultimately proves that Silver Surfer has greater all round capabilities in comparison to Iron man.

Silver Surfer has greater control / authority over reality / universe because he has shown far greater feats in relation to controlling / manipulating the events that take place within the universe. Silver Surfer has shown the better ability to control / manipulate various different aspects of reality using the Power Cosmic than Iron Man has ever done using his technology or using any other power of his own making.

Here are things Silver Surfer has done in regards to manipulating / controlling aspects of reality that Iron Man can't replicate to my knowledge:

http://i.imgur.com/VozAkj8.jpg = Destroys a world and leaves a black hole in place

http://i.imgur.com/lsELnjs.jpg = Accelerates a child's evolution so that he could learn faster.

http://i.imgur.com/01Z7hZO.jpg = Creates an antibody capable of curing a plague and is able to pass on via touch alone.

http://i.imgur.com/Vpx2pqy.jpg = Silver Surfer transmuting matter

3. The above facts subsequently follows to the conclusion that Silver Surfer is a more POWERFUL character than Iron Man, based on every definition of the word ‘power’ associated to comic characters.

Silver Surfer has more control than Iron Man over the fundamental building blocks of the universe (matter and energy) due to the following FACTS:

1. The fundamental building blocks of the universe consists of matter and energy.

2. A character who can both accomplish more feats related to matter / energy manipulation in terms of quantity and also accomplish feats at a greater magnitude / scale more consistently related to matter / energy manipulation will have more control over the fundamental building blocks of the universe than another character who has less feats of matter / energy manipulation and has feats consistently lower in scale / magnitude related to matter / energy manipulation.

3. Silver Surfer has more feats related to matter / energy manipulation. Silver Surfer also has feats at a greater magnitude / scale too.

http://i.imgur.com/uZl5MAf.jpg =Silver Surfer forms a planetary net of cosmic energy around Ego, the living planet. Proving, he has energy manipulation abilities at a greater scale / magnitude than Iron Man, since Iron Man hasn’t ever shown (to my knowledge) the energy manipulation of that scale.

http://i.imgur.com/6sJicok.jpg = Silver Surfer creates New York City. Another feat of matter / energy manipulation that Iron Man has never shown to equal or surpass to my knowledge.

Silver Surfer regularly converts matter to energy for self sustenance. Iron Man doesn't perform any matter / energy manipulation regularly. That alone is evidence of Silver Surfer having MORE feats of energy / matter maanipulation.

4. Based on the above facts, Silver Surfer has greater control over the fundamental building blocks of the universe.

Any character who is less powerful than Silver Surfer or has less control over the fundamental building blocks of the universe, can’t beat Silver Surfer in battle if they use any of the fundamental building blocks of the universe against him which he can manipulate, due to the following FACTS:

1. For a character to win a battle, they must either kill, incapacitate or BFR their opponent.

2. In order for a character to kill, incapacitate or BFR their opponent, they must be able to use attacks that their opponent can’t nullify. They must also be able to effectively nullify their opponent’s attack in the case of them being attacked.

3. The ability of a character to effectively nullify the attack of an opponent is based on how much control a character has over the attack of their opponent. If they have more control over their opponent’s attack, they can nullify it.

4. The ability of a character to effectively use their attacks successfully to beat their opponent without their opponent being able to nullify their attacks is based on whether the character has more control over their attack than their opponent.

5. Silver Surfer could nullify all the attacks of his opponents whilst his opponents wouldn’t be able to nullify his attacks, due to having greater control over the fundamental building blocks of the universe

"I guess the High Evolutionary used magic here too then?"

High Evolutionary reached sky father levels and above using prep time, using his intellect and tech. Iron Man has never done such a thing on his own (to my knowledge). therefore, it's a false equivalency fallacy to compare the two characters with astronomical discrepancy. High Evolutionary having the ability to be effective in battle against Silver Surfer using his technology is justified, due to High Evolutionary having consistent feats of operating and reaching levels beyond herald tier. Iron Man isn't justified, due to having no regular feats of reaching and operating at herald level. When Iron Man can develop tech that allows him to reach and stay at herald level consistently, then he'll be justified in being effective against Silver Surfer in battles.

Not a single scan, link, or any form of evidence was provided.

I've already posted scans. I can also post scans, but mine are relevant and within context.

I can also be sarcastic:

Iron Man comes in and beats a cosmic entity because his technology is planetary. Iron Man wins because he has a cool looking Armour, allowing him to beat a cosmic entity, despite it having almost no feats beyond planetary. Iron Man can Z Gas Gun somebody and win, despite that somebody having control over the very fundamental makeup / constituent of that gas. Iron Man can win and beat a high herald tier character, despite Iron Man never / rarely showing the ability to reach herald level himself on his own without outside assistance. Iron Man can beat a herald tier character, even though his most powerful villains and issues that he deals with regularly are planetary at best.

Iron man via sonics. Considering they can be used against characters with mhs speeds, the sonics would blitz thor.

Lol ^

Sonics are AoE attacks that spread out in every direction, so yeah they can tag extremely fast characters. Even characters faster than sound. Hulk's thunderclap is a perfect example of sonics working. Characters could easily outrun sound waves since they are, by definition, only as fast as the speed of sound, but sound waves are invisible so they can't see them coming and know to outrun them until it's too late. Even if they could see the sound waves, they would have to outrun the noise, but it would not solve the problem (unless they have long range capabilities) since they'd still have to come back within the range of the sonics in order to stop the character shooting them.

@noone1996:

He stole and siphoned Silver Surfer's power cosmic with CRIBBED STARK TECH.

What eliminates the possibility that he used his own technology, in addition to using 'cribbed Stark tech'? What eliminates the possibility that it was one of / some of High Evolutionary's technology that enabled whatever happened, to happen? It's still entirely possible that Tony Stark may have not been able to do what High Evolutionary did, if he was on his own without any assistance.

If a time traveler travels backwards in time to a point where cavemen existed, then decides after awhile to return back to his original time, but requires a specific component for his time machine to work (such as fire). So suppose the time traveler obtains fire from cavemen, does that mean cavemen also have time travelling technology only because they have a single component for time travelling (fire)?

It could just as likely be the same in that scan. Tony Stark may have just had a single component which High Evolutionary used in that particular instance. Unless there's direct evidence that Tony Stark can defeat high tier herald characters like Silver Surfer on a consistent basis (not rare, one time / few times and obscure feats of it), then I have no reason to believe that he can. If Tony Stark had the ability to truly beat high tier herald characters like Silver Surfer, he would consistently be doing what they do. Battling characters that they battle. Showing powers that they show. Showing abilities that they show. Showing control over reality that they show. The fact that Iron Man consistently battles foes like Mandarin (at best, who's effects are planetary) along with other planetary level foes tells me that he doesn't have the consistency of feats to beat characters that are far above planetary in terms of capabilities, effects and etc.

Silver Surfer has better, more consistent feats of energy manipulation (energy absorption, draining and resistance) in comparison to Iron Man. If anything, based on consistency, the opposite of what you're claiming is more likely to happen, which is Tony Stark's technology becoming drained / absorbed.

The reason why I can't just accept your claims in regards to those scans is because of ambiguity and vagueness. I am entitled and have every right to question your interpretations / claims in regards to those scans.

Even if he did use his own tech to do that, your explanation still doesn't make any sense.

Feel free to speak mainly for yourself. It makes perfect sense to me. Others (with a neutral view) will likewise decide for themselves whether it makes sense to them or not.

I thought that "herp Silvur surfur power cosmic es fundamental components of univurse becoz fundmental components of unverse herp so onley skyfather tech wurk on him"?

I don't understand what you've written there, I therefore don't understand your question. Since it appears you're using sarcasm / mockery, I can also use sarcasm / mockery too:

Iron Man can beat a character in battle who has control over all his tech / weapons herp derp es. Iron Man can beat a character in battle who can do everything that he can do, plus more herp derp es. Iron Man can use his planetary level of technology / weapons to beat a cosmic character in battle herp derp es. Iron Man can beat a high herald tier character in battle even though he has never shown the consistency in beating characters of such a tier herp derp es and etc.

He didn't use magic

If you're referring to High Evolutionary, then I haven't claimed he did.

and the High Evolutionary's tech isn't advanced enough to siphon Surfer's powers.

High Evolutionary is a character who has reached power levels consistently beyond herald tier (beyond the tier & capabilities of Silver Surfer). Meaning, anything Silver Surfer can do, High Evolutionary can also do. Since Silver Surfer has power siphoning abilities, so does High Evolutionary.

In addition, High Evolutionary has all human knowledge committed to memory (that includes the information behind power siphoning tech):

http://i.imgur.com/imGUP8d.png

On top of that, High Evolutionary also has a feat of siphoning power from Silver Surfer:

http://i.imgur.com/0iiPe7c.png

So that statement of yours is false! High Evolutionary undoubtedly has tech advanced enough to not only siphon Surfer's powers, but do even more.

That tech was Stark's.

I've already addressed this above. I'm yet to see Tony Stark consistently (not on rare, obscure occasions) beating herald tier characters using his own tech that he himself developed without outside assistance. Outside assistance meaning, getting an Asgardian Gem from an Asgardian. If he can consistently affect and beat herald tier characters, whilst also showing that his technology has the powers of a herald tier character on a consistent basis, then I'll accept Iron Man as having the capabilities of beating herald tier characters like Silver Surfer.

I'm not responding

Do whatever you please!

to the rest of your whoisthebest level logic backed up with nothing except your opinions.

As far as I'm concerned, Whoisthebest is irrelevant and has nothing to do with this discussion. I have no idea why you would have to even bring that up. That you have to point out another user in a discussion that has nothing to do with that user indicates to me that you probably are obsessed with that individual or have mental attachments to that individual.

My conclusions are backed up / substantiated by FACTS!

All I'm going to say is having advanced or complicated powers doesn't equal being immune to everything that's less powerful or complicated.

Define 'power' because I don't know what your definition of 'power' is. My definition of 'power' is:

1. Having greater control over reality.
2. Having more capabilities.
3. Having greater destructive capacity.

Silver Surfer FACTUALLY exceeds Iron Man in all three of those aspects. The same way Galactus does. The same way Eternity does. The same way Living Tribunal does.

Are you implying that Galactus isn't immune to everything that Iron Man alone can do to him? Are you implying that Eternity isn't immune to everything that Iron Man alone can do to him? Are you implying that Living Tribunal isn't immune to everything that Iron Man can do to him?

In order for me to accept that Iron Man can defeat a character of a specific level of power, I need to see consistent (not rare, obscure) feats of Iron Man beating characters of such a level of power. Otherwise, rare one time / two time feats can be disregarded justifiably as PIS.

Iron Man alone can't beat Silver Surfer for the same reason why he can't also beat those aforementioned characters.

That doesn't make sense,

Maybe not to you!

it's a lazy argument

I disagree!

and it's a no-limits fallacy.

I can just as easily argue (and justifiably) that it's a no limits fallacy to claim Iron Man can use his technology to beat characters at a level of power that he has never shown the consistent ability to beat. It's a no limits fallacy to claim that Iron Man's technology is capable of beating any and every character in battle.

It's not a no limits fallacy to claim Iron Man can't beat a character that can do everything he can do, plus more (Silver Surfer).

You haven't posted a single scan.

True, because I've posted more than a 'single scan'.

which are literally just opinions.

Every one of my conclusion is evidently based on FACTS.

to prove why he can never get hurt by anybody below Skyfather level.

Straw man fallacy! I did not once claim that 'he can never get hurt by anybody below skyfather level'. My argument was that he can't be beaten in battle by characters below his level of power (high tier herald).

You are a joke.

Ad hominem fallacy / attack!

Thor takes this. He already dealt with this armor and he knows it can absorb his magic.

@powerherc: Comedy of the year.

Note : The Ironman armor here is thorbuster.Not a normal one.According to marvel comics,Ironman can defeat thor with this suit.

Winner : The Thorbuster Armor (Ironman)

@naraskutty: Ignorance of the year

"Can" doesn't mean "will."

The Thorbuster armor may make Iron Man capable of defeating Thor but that doesn't make it automatically a forgone conclusion.

Thor still wins.

Thor.

Thor

Thor wins this don't know how this had gone so far. Without the Odin force to absorb Tony is just iron man in a more durable suit Thor wins

Thorbuster Iron Man still wins. Regular Thor would not have lasted physically as long as Tony did in that armor.

Iron Man, on the fly, once came up with a strategy to defeat the Silver Surfer simply after observing an offensive attack he used against Vision and Wonder Man. By measuring and using the same modulating effect that was used on Simon and Vision, Iron Man was able to come up with a strategy that actually stopped Norrin Radd in his tracks and left him defenseless. If the Avengers hadn't been interrupted, it's pretty clear who would have been taken out in that instance. Funny how certain users think that Iron Man can't do anything to Surfer with prep, yet he came up with a strategy which nearly took him out in a random encounter with standard gear and 2 minutes of prep.

Gallery

This was clearly bad writing though because:

It's obvious that nothing below Silver Surfer's power levels can take him down because reasons and fundamental components of the universe. Anytime it happens is bad writing.

@krleavenger: Thor doesn't need Mjolnir to beat Tony and take him out of that suit. Plus he doesn't need Mjolnir for his earth power set. If he tossed Mjolnir to space then used his fist and or lightning Tony doesn't have much of a chance as I see it.

@krleavenger: well again That was tony using Odin force (yes he was fueld by it not syohoning mjolnir but the odin force) he doesn't have that here. And This Thor utilizing those abilities and more that OF did not and take Tony down. Without that fuel this is just Tony in a tough suit. Tony can't hurt him enough to win here on the offense. Thor has too many powerful attacks that can Take Tony down..respectfully of course

@krleavenger: I suppose so lol nothing wrong with that. Just haven't seen anything to show me otherwise

if thor is going seriously all out, i would bet on thor, but morals on thor, without the odin force, would probably lose, so it depends on the circunstancies, it would be a good fight, thats for sure

@destinyman75: Even before he started absorbing the energy he was able to knock King Thor over and make him wipe blood from his lip.

@noone1996: context. And I've seen Thor beat Tony EVERYTIME they fought

@destinyman75: Well Iron Man actually beat Thor once when he separated him from the hammer for enough time and he transformed back into Donald Blake. Not that that's even relevant since we're talking about two almost completely different characters. Thor-Buster Iron Man and King Thor are WAY more powerful than their standard incarnations. Thor-Buster Iron Man knocked a Skyfather on his butt and made him wipe blood from his lip BEFORE he began absorbing energy. That feat alone puts him on par with standard Thor.