New 52 Superman vs Count Nefaria

Well yeah they aren't. Ms Marvel is with energy amping but outside of that, no they aren't as powerful or versatile as Iron Man. Vision can gain an edge due to density altering and Ms Marvel can absorb more energy and become more powerful as a result. At their base states, they don't surpass Iron Man in feats.

I'd say it begs the question of how much context is present in the feats. The Thing's maximum was done under the Jupiter Suit amping as the scans shown by another certain user and the Champion feat was done when she trained in her human form to make her She Hulk form more powerful. In both scenarios, She Hulk was evidently amped there unless you can prove otherwise. With my scan, she was not amped by the suit or by training and she capped off at 80 tons whereas the Thing could move more. He's also got strength feats way beyond the Class 100 range so that's more evidence for him being above She Hulk.

And whilst I may have been dismissive of your evidence, I don't think I qualify for lowballing in the slightest. That's an erroneous claim of my arguments when all I've done is countered your showings and demonstrated that they may not be as great as you played them up to be. I'm willing to do so again because your character knowledge on Nefaria isn't unquestionable this time which is rather odd. Usually I can't nitpick at what you say on the cosmic end of the battle forums but here there were areas to counter on.

@lvenger: Alright since the only way to convince you otherwise will be with a scan barrage sadly I can't do it right away. Let's start with she hulk for this Sunday because I already have most of her issues with me.

TThen I will let you choose on whose character feat you want me to demonstrate by the week after among Vision , Ms marvel and Goliath. Sounds fine to you ???

I am honestly surprised for all she has done people still think She hulk is inferior to Iron Mam specially considering they have actually fought one very recently and one during World War Hulk and she was clearly superior.

@killemall: Damn i love your debating.....that´s one of the things that keeps me lingering on the vine.....polite, educational and pleasant form to read.....you rock.

@killemall: No that's fine mate, take as much time as you need. The more evidence there is, the more there is to discuss/chance to convince me. For the record, you'll need to account for the training amp and Jupiter suit amps in She Hulk's physical showings since without those, I believe she's not quite on the tier of other beings and thus not much of a threat for Nefaria, let alone Pre/PostNew 52 Superman

I'm fine on Ms Marvel's feats since I've seen her in CAVs and battle forum debates, Goliath doesn't really seem that strong so Vision is probably your next best bet for a scan barrage.

Well even if she's stronger, Iron Man is faster, more versatile and powerful. I'll have to check the scans but IIRC, Jen was mad about Hulk being sent into space and Tony wasn't going all out against her.

@lvenger: I am not sure why you keep mentioning Jumper Suit, since its purpose was exactly opposite, to help Jen limit her power, after what happened in Avengers Dissamble (with She Hulk going full on savage and ripping apart Vision). In short, its not an amp its a inhibitor, to help control or minimize her power. I will get into more detail, but the guys explanation of Jumper Suit is spot on (even though i dont agree with the Champion feat of his), in fact She Hulk explains that much in the very scan she fights Titana (the scan is there as well).

@killemall: There needs to be proof of that and furthermore there's her training in her Jen Walters form to account for. The recent scans show she isn't at the level she used to be at. So I doubt She Hulk's strength is as high as it's made it out to be. She clearly strained at lifting 80 tons without amping whereas The Thing was lifting it just fine and was pushing for more.

Agreed. And you know it's good when I acknowledge you.

Here is the fist citation of the jumpiter suit's strength-supressing function:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/4/40015/1133459-picture_1.png

http://www.universomarvel.com.aq/shehulk/She-Hulk-Fuerza_2.jpg

Remade the OP with snazzy new pictures of New 52 Superman from Superman Unchained 7 (aka my new favourite Jim Lee Superman image) and a cool fan art drawing of Count Nefaria. Much better than my previous OP in aesthetics and layout IMO.

@lvenger said:

Rules

• New 52 Superman
• Classic Nefaria and Ionic Nefaria from the 2000s
• Morals on
• Random Encounter
• Combatants have no knowledge of one another
• Standard Winning Conditions ie KO, BFR, Incapacitation, Death etc
• Battle takes place in an abandoned Washington DC

Who wins?

@killemall:

Late response, but I agree that CN wins, but based on fight with Thor and Wonder Man. Neither: Pre nor New 52 Superman would be able to do that, unless he would be out of character and used nanosecond reaction first in his life in fight.

About second one:

there is no real powerhouse there.

A specially when it comes to She-Hulk who in base strength is weaker than current Thing. That Thing was younger and less strong than now. Current is easily 100 tonner. She-Hulk was barely an obstacle for Namor in his way to get revenger on Thing.

The same with Kree Sentries - Thing dealt with two at once, right? And She-Hulk lost to them IIRC. Winning with group of of strong characters is good, but no where near as good as beating a real semi-level powerhouses like Wonder Man, Namor, Hulk or Red Hulk, let alone real powerhouse like Thor/Gladiator/Silver Surfer/Hyperion/Nova Prime.

Count Nefaria beat Thor and Wonder Man, which puts him above their class, thus above Superman.

@lvenger: You've pretty much already won this thread.

I know but after reading Superman Unchained 7, I wanted to change the OP and specify the conditions more clearly. This way, Nefaria gets his best feats before New Avengers downgraded his power level and Superman is his weaker New 52 incarnation that still has plenty of feats to draw upon. Plus the final page to SU 7 was so cool, I had to put it in the OP :P

CN

Nuperman