New 52 Superman vs Count Nefaria

Rules

• New 52 Superman
• Pre New Avengers Count Nefaria
• Morals on
• Random Encounter
• Combatants have no knowledge of one another
• Standard Winning Conditions ie KO, BFR, Incapacitation, Death etc
• Battle takes place in an abandoned Washington DC

Who wins?

That's a tough on let me get back to you on it

With CN in his current state, Superman takes this fairly easily.  Now back in the day when CN was at his peak, I can see him giving supes a real fight.  CN's downfall would be his arrogant attitude.

Count Nefaria has been nerfed.

" Current/Classic CN will lose. He didn't showed FTL reaction speed to my knowledge, so he isn't able to keep up with Supe. "

Just so the fight doesn't seem unfair I've rechanged the Count Nefaria to a classic version when he was at peak power to give him more of a chance

" @czarny_samael said:

" Current/Classic CN will lose. He didn't showed FTL reaction speed to my knowledge, so he isn't able to keep up with Supe. "

Superman doesn't have FTL reaction speed, anyway. "

" He showed nanosecond reaction, which I always considered as FTL reaction speed. "

" @Static Shock said:

" @czarny_samael said:

" Current/Classic CN will lose. He didn't showed FTL reaction speed to my knowledge, so he isn't able to keep up with Supe. "

Superman doesn't have FTL reaction speed, anyway. "

He showed nanosecond reaction, which I always considered as FTL reaction speed. "

"Taking a nanosecond to process an attack, then reacting......  And reacting faster than the speed of light.......... Are two different things.......... "

So for You guys, Gladiator and Hyperion are faster than Superman?

" So for You guys, Gladiator and Hyperion are faster than Superman? "

" @czarny_samael said:

" So for You guys, Gladiator and Hyperion are faster than Superman? "

The subject is debatable as we speak... Superman has been able to utilize his superhuman speed and reaction time in battle many times, and so far, narration normally leaves the extent of it vague. Then again, we didn't see Thor fight with nanosecond speed, and was he was able to contend with Gladiator. "

" Keeping up with someone, when he shouldn't is PIS. But Thor already showed nanoseond speed reaction.

" was too fast (not while flying) for Human Torch's eye

" fighting speed equal to speed of his thunders (1/3 speed of light) while he was fighting with Surfer.

" But we also have seen Black Cloak and Hulk fights with Gladiator, so we can say for sure that such a fights are PIS.  "

Superman wins this very cool and interesting battle.  The Count just can't match Supes overall power, but he'd give him a good go.

Superman wins but Nefaria gets Lois.. Ehehehehe!

Supes ftw

" @czarny_samael said:

" Keeping up with someone, when he shouldn't is PIS. But Thor already showed nanoseond speed reaction.

When?

" @czarny_samael said:

" was too fast (not while flying) for Human Torch's eye

Human Torch has normal human reflexes. Even then, it's difficult to quantify how fast Thor was moving there.
 

" @czarny_samael said:

" fighting speed equal to speed of his thunders (1/3 speed of light) while he was fighting with Surfer.

1/3 speed of the light isn't even close to nanosecond speeds. Even then, lightning doesn't actually move that fast all the time. The speed of lightning varies with each strike, but is half the speed of light at the maximum. So, even though his speed was lightning-quick, it can't be quantified, either.

" czarny_samael said:

" But we also have seen Black Cloak and Hulk fights with Gladiator, so we can say for sure that such a fights are PIS.  "

How so? His fight against Hyperion was the only fight where he actually displayed nanosecond battle speed (with it being stated on panel). In others, not so much. "

HT has superhuman reflex and it was a prove that he has super-reaction speed not in travel.

According to books and sites in which I've checked it, it was stated that thunder can "fly" in 1/3 speed of light.
Besides, it happened in fight with Silver Surfer, thanks to which it should be consider as a max speed of thunders. 

"I'm saying that Gladiator has nanosecond reaction speed only because he showed it in battle.

"current Super beats him with ease   Classic Superman wins mainly due to his other powers not Strength and Durability. "

" @Thor's hammmer said:

"current Super beats him with ease   Classic Superman wins mainly due to his other powers not Strength and Durability. "

Golden Age Supes gets stomped "

" @czarny_samael said:

According to books and sites in which I've checked it, it was stated that thunder can "fly" in 1/3 speed of light.
Besides, it happened in fight with Silver Surfer, thanks to which it should be consider as a max speed of thunders. 

I've checked other sources, too. Lightning doesn't always move that fast, so there's no telling if Thor was move 1/3 speed of light, either way. The speed of lightning varies between a certain range. Just because 1/3 speed of light is a maximum (and it's not, 1/2 speed of light is) doesn't always mean that it's moving that quick all the time. Then again, both figures may not even be accurate, since the speed of lightning depends on a lot of factors.
 
From Answers.com 
 
"But lightning itself travels nowhere near as fast as the speed of light. Lightning is an electrical discharge and is bound by the laws of physics. Its speed depends on many factors, including the conductivity of the medium it is traveling through. It is very difficult to measure the speed of lighting, first, because it is extremely quick! And secondly, close observations are very dangerous! Rough estimates put the speed of lightning at about half the speed of light, at most, with some parts of its journey being much slower.

Careful scientific measurements of many lightning flashes have revealed that the electricity moves at different speeds at different stages of its journey in the lightning flash. Also, its returning upstroke is much faster than its downstroke. The Guinness Book of Answers indicates a maximum speeds around 87,000 miles per second.

The USA Department of Energy gives the speed of lightning as 93,000 miles per second, which maybe a 'rough guide' figure based on the 'half the speed of light' principle!"

From ucar.edu 

" The whole sequence is "lightning fast." The leader travels at 220,000 kilometers (136,000 miles) per hour, the pauses between steps take 50 millionths of a second, the return stroke moves at over 100 million kilometers (62 million miles) per hour, and all subsequent strokes are so fast the eye sees a single flickering lightning bolt."

 
 http://www.ucar.edu/communications/factsheets/Lightning.html     

It even says the return stroke is faster than the leader stroke, and even the return stroke (62 million mph comes out to 17,222 miles/sec) isn't close to 1/3 speed of light (62,000 miles/sec).

@czarny_samael said:

"I'm saying that Gladiator has nanosecond reaction speed only because he showed it in battle.

But that was one battle out of all other fights he's been in. How are the more consistent showings considered PIS? "

" 1.I belive that all people who can fly fast have at least superhuman reaction speed, because they know when turn left or right to avoid buildings.

@czarny_samael

" 2.You've said that it is 1/4 speed of light, now that it is 1/2 speed of light. I'm saying that it is 1/3 speed of light.  It seems that in different sources we have different answers.

" 3.Because it is an objective feat. If he would suprise Silver Surfer without something in narration, this would be PIS. "

Supes Got this

All right so that Nefaria doesn't get completely ignored here are some feats for him. First off he has the powers of the members of the 2nd Lethal Legion Living Laser (energy projection) Whirlwind (speed) and Power Man [Erik Josten] (strength) magnified a hundredfold
 

• Strength - He has toppled a 30 story building with little effort. Strength class is considered to be equal to Thor and Hulk
  
   
  
  

  

  
  
   Durability - He has withstood a direct blow from Wonder Man without flinching, fought an enraged Thor and stopped his hammer attack with his bare hands. Has fought multiple teams of Avengers and laughed it off
  
  Stamina: Giant Man calculated that it would take 3 weeks of constant combat without even giving Nefaria time to breath in order for the Avengers and the Thunderbolts to deplete his ionic enrgy supply.
  

Do he also has speed of Living Laser?

@Lvenger: 
 
 Those are great feats based on Marvel standards 
Easily lifting a 30 stroy building is nothing to easily lifting a pyramid 
And Superman once caught and held up a falling skyscraper 
 
The durability was a good show though 
He is more powerful now when he drains more ionic energy

And he was stronger than Thor. not equal
 
@czarny_samael said:

"Do he also has speed of Living Laser? "

" @StrongestOneThereIs:  Yeah I guess you're right about that although Thor has been in several of the threads I've seen been considered equal in strength to Superman so that's why I put the Thor one there. DC do generally have greater more outlandish power feats though e.g Superman lifting pyramid. And I always thought that Nefaria was equal to Thor in strength not greater. Anyway it is difficult finding feats for Nefaria. I still haven't found any good ones for speed or energy projection though. BTW when did Superman catch a falling skyscraper? "

2.I doubt it, becasue it was polish site about wheater. 

" 2.I doubt it, becasue it was polish site about wheater.  3.Objective feat. Like destroying a planet, surviving supernova or planet explosion. That is why if in narration is in indication that he has nanosecond reaction speed - he has it, but if he just fought with some very fast people he doesn't automatically have super-reaction speed. "

I'm bumping this as I've changed the conditions to New 52 Superman vs Classic Nefaria. Who wins now?

@lvenger:

In The 1970's Avengers (164-166) Nefaria had 100x the strength of Power Man, 100x the speed of Whirlwind, and 100x the laser intensity of The Living Laser. This was a story concocted by John Byrne to be "The Avengers vs. Superman" . Only this "Superman" was slower and weaker (by far) than the Silver Age Superman. A tornado spins at 150mph and 100x that is 15Kmph which is orders of magnitude slower than the speed of light (1970's Superman could exceed the SOL and break the time barrier (Once he actually flew 2x the speed of light to break the time barrier extremely fast). Also Nefaria was MUCH weaker. Suppose Power Man could (graciously) press 100 tons, which is Thor's average strength. 100x that would be 10000 tons. The 1970's Superman could move the Earth, which weighs 132,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons.

The Nu52 Superman can lift the weight of the Earth for five days before breaking a sweat (according to Superman #13) and fly to the sun in the "blink of an eye", which lets say is just sublight speed (no time travel). Superman's heat vision can reach nova-hot temperatures, which is about even with Nefaria.

Superman could also see Nefaria from any distance away, hear his heartbeat, scent his pheromones, throw a rock and nail him with ridiculous aim. Superman can fly, has freeze breath (from rapid condensation of inhaled air where the heat has been drained), doesn't really need to breathe, and is nigh indestructible. Superman is constantly recharging from the Earth's sun, a huge portion of whose energy goes through the entire planet. Nefaria has enormous energy reserves but can't fly and lacks any super senses.

Summary: Silver Age or Nu52 Superman each badly pwn Nefaria. Golden Age definitely loses. 1980's Superman probably loses. Early 1990's Superman (before gaining light speed after turning "electric" and back to normal) has a tough fight, and that's probably the best battle. Away from a Yellow Sun, it's all CN. In space or underwater (or pretty much anywhere else) it's Superman.

@ravirdubey: Yeah I pretty much came to that conclusion myself years ago. Back when I was a lesser Viner with not as much knowledge of the battle forums or Superman as I have nowadays. This thread probably isn't one of my finest moments suffice to say.

@ancient_0f_days: @lvenger: @czarny_samael666: Just tagging Ancient of Days because he was the most recent post..

As mentioned earlier with Lvengers, i see Count Nefaria as significantly more powerful than Superman, although before i start posting scans (given the sheer volume of it which will take me a while) i am bumping this for the time being to see what anyone can say...

@killemall: Yeah...Superman stomps with 1 hand!

@reaverlation: Give me till tomorrow till i post the scans :p still waiting for 1 last series :)

@killemall: Looking forward to it :).

@reaverlation: Still uploading what i have got on comicvine.. its gonna take me some time so i will be debating side by side opening a separate window :)