None of the other kryptonians were at Superman's level. Even Foara who was busting kung-fu moves on him couldn't hurt him or contain him with the help of Non. It took Superman two minutes to kill Zod once he released his armour.
1)Hancock gets stronger farther he is from his wife
2) You put Hancock in completely different dimension from his wife when you did not include her in to this thread meaning that Hancock gets no limitations to his strength, speed and healing.
@d3athstroke: To be fair, it is pure speculation as to how strong Hancock gets when he's that far from Mary. Iirc he was at full power before he remembered/found out Mary was his partner, which is why they were able to fight eachother with powers beforehand. Once he realized what he was he started getting depowered.
@monsterstomp: Swatting away a grenade launcher/missile (cant remember which it was) and showing he can operate at invisibly fast flight speeds are good showings. Also the freight train feat is a showing of raw strength and durability which needs to be considered.
Hancock never moved beyond Mach 1. The bank scene is the most overrated proof of speed I've scene on the Vine. Initially you can see Hancock fly through the bank. How does that equate to "invisibly fast flight speeds?".
The freight train feat, while good, is contradicted by Mary's feat of throwing Hancock through her house or him getting beat with a truck.
@monsterstomp: @i_like_swords: It should be noted that Superman moved far beyond Mach 1 in his fight against Zod, to which he went from space to Earth in a matter of seconds. Either they fought at re-entry speeds (Mach 25, which is 16,250mph) or faster.
Hancock stopped a freight train, so obviously he wins despite the lack of combat showings and speed.
Are you saying that Superman has better combat speed and reflexes than Hancock?
I don't think it'd be far fetched to say so.
It would be. MoS has little to no reflex feat. Hancock does. Hancock was blitzing people without being seen. MoS was always visible when he tried to blitz(bullrush) someone. Hancock has superior speed, durability and strength.
@rbt: I've already referred to the bank scene. It really isn't that special in my opinion. Combat speed is arguable, sorry I meant Superman has more combat showings.
@rbt: I've already referred to the bank scene. It really isn't that special in my opinion. Combat speed is arguable, sorry I meant Superman has more combat showings.
Maybe, but MoS never had any showing on that level as well. Hancock actually reacted to a missile coming his way, when MoS got tagged by everything that came his way.
The bank scene- Hancock was flying faster than human eye could see. That's over 600mph. So, Hancock can actually blitz someone while going at 600mph. While MoS, when he tried to bullrush Faora, was easily visible to eye. Just a blur.
@rbt: @monsterstomp: Actually, Superman is much faster. It took Superman and Zod 20 seconds to fight from the exosphere back to Earth's surface. Speed is distance/time. The exopshere is 360 miles above Earth and it took 20 seconds for both Superman and Zod to reach Earth, that's 64,800mph - which is Mach 85.
Superman was getting double teamed and he still fought them off. Against Hancock, he can utilize the upper limits of his speed.
Being a 'blur' means nothing - nobody human can perceive Mach 85. The film however, allows us to.
@rbt: I've already referred to the bank scene. It really isn't that special in my opinion. Combat speed is arguable, sorry I meant Superman has more combat showings.
Maybe, but MoS never had any showing on that level as well. Hancock actually reacted to a missile coming his way, when MoS got tagged by everything that came his way.
The bank scene- Hancock was flying faster than human eye could see. That's over 600mph. So, Hancock can actually blitz someone while going at 600mph. While MoS, when he tried to bullrush Faora, was easily visible to eye. Just a blur.
Hancock reacted to a grenade launched from a grenade launcher. Bullets move faster.
Hancock wasn't flying faster than the human eye can see. I could see Hancock entering the building. Sure it's blur. The illusion is that the camera doesn't follow Hancock until Hancock is out of the building already.
@rbt: @monsterstomp: Actually, Superman is much faster. It took Superman and Zod 20 seconds to fight from the exosphere back to Earth's surface. Speed is distance/time. The exopshere is 360 miles above Earth and it took 20 seconds for both Superman and Zod to reach Earth, that's 64,800mph - which is Mach 85.
Superman was getting double teamed and he still fought them off. Against Hancock, he can utilize the upper limits of his speed.
That's travel speed and even that's not correct. The scene was cut therefore we have no idea how much time it took them to reach back to earth. MoS definitely doesn't fly at Mach 85 when bullrushing someone. Hancock has reacted to a missile/grenade coming his way. He can easily intercept if MoS tries to rush him. Same can't be said for MoS. If Hancock rushes him at over 600mph, MoS doesn't have any feat to suggest he'll be able to get out of way.
@rbt: whether someone appears as a blur is up to perspective.... that's a really bad example of an accurate measurement of speed. Its not like superman was trying to blitz regular humans so you may wanna rethink your arguement n try from another angle and consider relativity
@rbt: I've already referred to the bank scene. It really isn't that special in my opinion. Combat speed is arguable, sorry I meant Superman has more combat showings.
Maybe, but MoS never had any showing on that level as well. Hancock actually reacted to a missile coming his way, when MoS got tagged by everything that came his way.
The bank scene- Hancock was flying faster than human eye could see. That's over 600mph. So, Hancock can actually blitz someone while going at 600mph. While MoS, when he tried to bullrush Faora, was easily visible to eye. Just a blur.
Hancock reacted to a grenade launched from a grenade launcher. Bullets move faster.
Hancock wasn't flying faster than the human eye can see. I could see Hancock entering the building. Sure it's blur. The illusion is that the camera doesn't follow Hancock until Hancock is out of the building already.
Grenade launchers can go over 360kmph. Bullets do move faster, and that means? MoS never dodged a single bullet in the movie, so why bring it up?
Point is, the men inside the building couldn't see Hancock at all. And he still was much less visible than MoS when he tried to blitz someone.
@rbt: whether someone appears as a blur is up to perspective.... that's a really bad example of an accurate measurement of speed. Its not like superman was trying to blitz regular humans so you may wanna rethink your arguement n try from another angle and consider relativity
We could easily see Superman. Hancock was barely visible. That's how I made the comparison that Hancock move faster than MoS when trying to blitz someone.
@rbt: I've already referred to the bank scene. It really isn't that special in my opinion. Combat speed is arguable, sorry I meant Superman has more combat showings.
Maybe, but MoS never had any showing on that level as well. Hancock actually reacted to a missile coming his way, when MoS got tagged by everything that came his way.
The bank scene- Hancock was flying faster than human eye could see. That's over 600mph. So, Hancock can actually blitz someone while going at 600mph. While MoS, when he tried to bullrush Faora, was easily visible to eye. Just a blur.
Hancock reacted to a grenade launched from a grenade launcher. Bullets move faster.
Hancock wasn't flying faster than the human eye can see. I could see Hancock entering the building. Sure it's blur. The illusion is that the camera doesn't follow Hancock until Hancock is out of the building already.
Grenade launchers can go over 360kmph. Bullets do move faster, and that means? MoS never dodged a single bullet in the movie, so why bring it up?
Point is, the men inside the building couldn't see Hancock at all. And he still was much less visible than MoS when he tried to blitz someone.
Superman flies at speeds faster than 360km/h. Weaving around those buildings was probably faster.
The men were never looking towards Hancock when he "blitzed".
@rbt: @monsterstomp: Actually, Superman is much faster. It took Superman and Zod 20 seconds to fight from the exosphere back to Earth's surface. Speed is distance/time. The exopshere is 360 miles above Earth and it took 20 seconds for both Superman and Zod to reach Earth, that's 64,800mph - which is Mach 85.
Superman was getting double teamed and he still fought them off. Against Hancock, he can utilize the upper limits of his speed.
That's travel speed and even that's not correct. The scene was cut therefore we have no idea how much time it took them to reach back to earth. MoS definitely doesn't fly at Mach 85 when bullrushing someone. Hancock has reacted to a missile/grenade coming his way. He can easily intercept if MoS tries to rush him. Same can't be said for MoS. If Hancock rushes him at over 600mph, MoS doesn't have any feat to suggest he'll be able to get out of way.
Irrelevant. They were fighting whilst in superspeed - it wasn't really cut either, the time shown was 20 seconds, which is a good measure. MOS Superman was fighting at Mach 85. MOS Superman easily dodged a hail of bullets, which travel at 760MPH, Hancock's blitz will not be doing anything.
The fight will go airborn, and Hancock cannot keep up.
@rbt: I've already referred to the bank scene. It really isn't that special in my opinion. Combat speed is arguable, sorry I meant Superman has more combat showings.
Maybe, but MoS never had any showing on that level as well. Hancock actually reacted to a missile coming his way, when MoS got tagged by everything that came his way.
The bank scene- Hancock was flying faster than human eye could see. That's over 600mph. So, Hancock can actually blitz someone while going at 600mph. While MoS, when he tried to bullrush Faora, was easily visible to eye. Just a blur.
Hancock reacted to a grenade launched from a grenade launcher. Bullets move faster.
Hancock wasn't flying faster than the human eye can see. I could see Hancock entering the building. Sure it's blur. The illusion is that the camera doesn't follow Hancock until Hancock is out of the building already.
Grenade launchers can go over 360kmph. Bullets do move faster, and that means? MoS never dodged a single bullet in the movie, so why bring it up?
Point is, the men inside the building couldn't see Hancock at all. And he still was much less visible than MoS when he tried to blitz someone.
Superman flies at speeds faster than 360km/h. Weaving around those buildings was probably faster.
The men were never looking towards Hancock when he "blitzed".
That's again travel speed. Hancock was flying faster than Mach 1(sonic boom) and was still able to take sharp turns when he wanted. Iron Man can replicate the feat but that doesn't mean his reflexes are on par with his flying speed.
Not towards Hancock, towards the person who Hancock was blitzing. Hostages were looking that way and no one could see a thing.
@rbt: whether someone appears as a blur is up to perspective.... that's a really bad example of an accurate measurement of speed. Its not like superman was trying to blitz regular humans so you may wanna rethink your arguement n try from another angle and consider relativity
We could easily see Superman. Hancock was barely visible. That's how I made the comparison that Hancock move faster than MoS when trying to blitz someone.
Awful comparison. MOS Superman was flying while fighting at 64,800mph - do you believe that Hancock's speed at 600mph is faster than Superman's at 64,800mph because Hancock was a blur?
Irrelevant. They were fighting whilst in superspeed - it wasn't really cut either, the time shown was 20 seconds, which is a good measure.
Yes, it was cut. First we see them zooming towards earth with one camera and then we see him near earth with another cam. That's cutting. Also, the debris of Wayne satellite fell on the earth the same time as Zod and Kal reached earth. Does that mean the debris were flying at Mach 85 as well?
MOS Superman was fighting at Mach 85.
He was not moving at mach 85 to being with. Let alone fight.
MOS Superman easily dodged a hail of bullets,
Whoa! When did Superman dodge a single bullet? He never dodged bullets in movie.
@rbt: I've already referred to the bank scene. It really isn't that special in my opinion. Combat speed is arguable, sorry I meant Superman has more combat showings.
Maybe, but MoS never had any showing on that level as well. Hancock actually reacted to a missile coming his way, when MoS got tagged by everything that came his way.
The bank scene- Hancock was flying faster than human eye could see. That's over 600mph. So, Hancock can actually blitz someone while going at 600mph. While MoS, when he tried to bullrush Faora, was easily visible to eye. Just a blur.
Hancock reacted to a grenade launched from a grenade launcher. Bullets move faster.
Hancock wasn't flying faster than the human eye can see. I could see Hancock entering the building. Sure it's blur. The illusion is that the camera doesn't follow Hancock until Hancock is out of the building already.
Grenade launchers can go over 360kmph. Bullets do move faster, and that means? MoS never dodged a single bullet in the movie, so why bring it up?
Point is, the men inside the building couldn't see Hancock at all. And he still was much less visible than MoS when he tried to blitz someone.
Superman flies at speeds faster than 360km/h. Weaving around those buildings was probably faster.
The men were never looking towards Hancock when he "blitzed".
That's again travel speed. Hancock was flying faster than Mach 1(sonic boom) and was still able to take sharp turns when he wanted. Iron Man can replicate the feat but that doesn't mean his reflexes are on par with his flying speed.
Not towards Hancock, towards the person who Hancock was blitzing. Hostages were looking that way and no one could see a thing.
Its not all travel speed. I mean, if you're flying that fast, the obstacles are also coming at you pretty fast. At those speeds, those streets look immensely small to weave through and Superman did it effortlessly. Hancock blitzing those thugs was a travel feat... I never saw a single sonic boom in Hancock.
The other men never saw Hancock because they weren't facing they way Hancock was blitzing. Maybe the hostages did see Hancock and were too scared to tell the big bad guy what was happening to his men.
Its not all travel speed. I mean, if you're flying that fast, the obstacles are also coming at you pretty fast. At those speeds, those streets look immensely small to weave through and Superman did it effortlessly. Hancock blitzing those thugs was a travel feat... I never saw a single sonic boom in Hancock.
Watch the climax fight of IM2. Tony was flying at MAch speed and was still able to make steep turns. Doesn't imply that Tony has supersonic reflexes. When you're flying you towards something, you've time to see the obstacle. Hancock did create sonic boom when he arrived.
Irrelevant. They were fighting whilst in superspeed - it wasn't really cut either, the time shown was 20 seconds, which is a good measure.
Yes, it was cut. First we see them zooming towards earth with one camera and then we see him near earth with another cam. That's cutting. Also, the debris of Wayne satellite fell on the earth the same time as Zod and Kal reached earth. Does that mean the debris were flying at Mach 85 as well?
MOS Superman was fighting at Mach 85.
He was not moving at mach 85 to being with. Let alone fight.
MOS Superman easily dodged a hail of bullets,
Whoa! When did Superman dodge a single bullet? He never dodged bullets in movie.
It 'cuts' to Lois. That's not cutting, that's just from her perspective. Then we see Superman crash into them, that's not cutting. And yes, Zod threw the satellite through Superman, of course it would be moving faster. Those chunks of satellite also have a large surface area, bullets move much slower yet people cannot see them, that does not mean bullets move faster. Those are big chunks of satellite too, bullets are not visible when shot yet that does not mean they move faster than debris moving at such speeds
He engaged with Zod and brought himself to that level. Zod is a much better fighter than Hancock
It 'cuts' to Lois. That's not cutting, that's just from her perspective. Then we see Superman crash into them, that's not cutting. And yes, Zod threw the satellite through Superman, of course it would be moving faster. Those chunks of satellite also have a large surface area, bullets move much slower yet people cannot see them, that does not mean bullets move faster
You're really saying that Zod threw the satellite at Mach 85?! That's not even close to be true.
Its not all travel speed. I mean, if you're flying that fast, the obstacles are also coming at you pretty fast. At those speeds, those streets look immensely small to weave through and Superman did it effortlessly. Hancock blitzing those thugs was a travel feat... I never saw a single sonic boom in Hancock.
Watch the climax fight of IM2. Tony was flying at MAch speed and was still able to make steep turns. Doesn't imply that Tony has supersonic reflexes. When you're flying you towards something, you've time to see the obstacle. Hancock did create sonic boom when he arrived.
Actually, Superman flying at such speeds already tells us that he's thinking at a faster rate.
It 'cuts' to Lois. That's not cutting, that's just from her perspective. Then we see Superman crash into them, that's not cutting. And yes, Zod threw the satellite through Superman, of course it would be moving faster. Those chunks of satellite also have a large surface area, bullets move much slower yet people cannot see them, that does not mean bullets move faster
You're really saying that Zod threw the satellite at Mach 85?! That's not even close to be true.
And MoS never dodged bullets in the movie.
You seem to have the wrong idea. Zod threw the satellite with this strength and then it went through Superman. The satellite isn't that hard to see because it's a large object, thus making it more visible and perceivable. By contrast, you may not see a bullet when shot, does that mean bullets are faster than debris travelling at such speeds just because they cannot be seen? Hell no. You can't make the assertion of saying Hancock was faster because he was a blur.
You seem to have the wrong idea. Zod threw the satellite with this strength and then it went through Superman. The satellite isn't that hard to see because it's a large object, thus making it more visible and perceivable. By contrast, you may not see a bullet when shot, does that mean bullets are faster than debris travelling at such speeds just because they cannot be seen? Hell no. You can't make the assertion of saying Hancock was faster because he was a blur.
What you're saying is that the satellite was falling at Mach 85, that's over 60,ooomph. Its impossible to see any debris falling at that speed. Even meteors from space don't travel that fast. They are Mach 50 and slow down upto Mach 20 when impacting with earth's atmosphere. There's no way Zod could have thrown that satellite at such enormous speed. Also vecause he never displayed such strength before.
Is he not seen dodging bullets here?
No he did not bullet dodge there. He aim dodged, which is nowhere near as impressive as actual bullet dodging. MoS failed even at aim dodging as he was hit twice.
You seem to have the wrong idea. Zod threw the satellite with this strength and then it went through Superman. The satellite isn't that hard to see because it's a large object, thus making it more visible and perceivable. By contrast, you may not see a bullet when shot, does that mean bullets are faster than debris travelling at such speeds just because they cannot be seen? Hell no. You can't make the assertion of saying Hancock was faster because he was a blur.
What you're saying is that the satellite was falling at Mach 85, that's over 60,ooomph. Its impossible to see any debris falling at that speed. Even meteors from space don't travel that fast. They are Mach 50 and slow down upto Mach 20 when impacting with earth's atmosphere. There's no way Zod could have thrown that satellite at such enormous speed. Also vecause he never displayed such strength before.
Is he not seen dodging bullets here?
No he did not bullet dodge there. He aim dodged, which is nowhere near as impressive as actual bullet dodging. MoS failed even at aim dodging as he was hit twice.
Then the debris simply would have slown down while reaching Earth's atmosphere. And Zod did display such strength - it's in the very scene we're discussing. Zod physically throws the satellite at Superman, that would only make it travel faster for a brief while. Zod's striking power however, didn't correlate to his strength. The Earth's gravity would also have been pulling it.
Yes he did, that's why he dodges a reign of bullets, not just one
Then the debris simply would have slown down while reaching Earth's atmosphere. And Zod did display such strength - it's in the very scene we're discussing. Zod physically throws the satellite at Superman, that would only make it travel faster for a brief while. Zod's striking power however, didn't correlate to his strength. The Earth's gravity would also have been pulling it.
No Zod never displayed strength even close to that level. Earlier he tired to throw MoS and even utilized speed while doing so and couldn't throw him that far. What you're suggesting is not true. Zod didn't throw sattelite at Mach 85. The scene was cut.
Yes he did, that's why he dodges a reign of bullets, not just one
Again that's called aim dodging. And he was hit by the bullet in that scene as well.
Then the debris simply would have slown down while reaching Earth's atmosphere. And Zod did display such strength - it's in the very scene we're discussing. Zod physically throws the satellite at Superman, that would only make it travel faster for a brief while. Zod's striking power however, didn't correlate to his strength. The Earth's gravity would also have been pulling it.
No Zod never displayed strength even close to that level. Earlier he tired to throw MoS and even utilized speed while doing so and couldn't throw him that far. What you're suggesting is not true. Zod didn't throw sattelite at Mach 85. The scene was cut.
Yes he did, that's why he dodges a reign of bullets, not just one
Again that's called aim dodging. And he was hit by the bullet in that scene as well.
You have argued that meteors slow their descent while reaching Earth's atmosphere. The only shot of the debris that is seen visible by humans is when the debris reaches atmosphere/metropolis. Prior to that, the scene of Zod throwing the satellite takes place in space. They would have been travelling at Mach 85 in the vacuum of space, and not when it came to the Earth's atmosphere. In regards to Zod attempting to throw Superman, Superman is stronger than Zod and would have resisted. He isn't a chunk of metal. The scene was not cut. Period. All we see is Lois witnessing re-entry into atmosphere, she is witnessing the events unfold
No. The bullets fire at 0:15, he dodges after that
@rbt: Let's take the scene to which both Superman and Zod go to the exosphere, there is no ''cut'' dilemma there. They are travelling faster than to which they did when they re-entered atmosphere.
Assuming it took 358 miles (as Superman is level with tall buildings). It takes 5 seconds to reach exosphere and it's 358 miles up, the distance / time is 257,760mph - is it not? That puts them at Mach 335.
@frozen: We didn't actually see them travelling uncut up to space. We see them begin moving up to space, then a cut, then they're in space. Which to me implies that it would of taken too long to show their whole ascent up to space, so they put in a cut. Either way the exact travel time is ambiguous and wasn't 5 seconds. Same with the cuts back down to the ground.
@monsterstomp: Swatting away a grenade launcher/missile (cant remember which it was) and showing he can operate at invisibly fast flight speeds are good showings. Also the freight train feat is a showing of raw strength and durability which needs to be considered.
Hancock never moved beyond Mach 1. The bank scene is the most overrated proof of speed I've scene on the Vine. Initially you can see Hancock fly through the bank. How does that equate to "invisibly fast flight speeds?".
The freight train feat, while good, is contradicted by Mary's feat of throwing Hancock through her house or him getting beat with a truck.
When I say invisible fast I didn't mean that he's literally too invisible to see from any perspective. I meant in the way that a formula 1 car would go zooming past too fast for you to see. Yeah, you can see him in the distance when he's coming straight to you but when he actually takes the robbers he's moving too fast for the eye to track at that distance. You also see the robbers essentially disappear, rather than being flown out. It shows that Hancock can operate cognitively and physically at speeds to match his flight speed.
What? Mary has the same level of power as him. Of course she'd be able to throw him through a house. Hancock could throw himself through a house. Can't remember the truck bit but being hit by a truck being used by someone of your own physical level isn't really a low showing. Neither of those instances take away from the train feat and MOS did not show that level of strength or durability himself.
@i_like_swords: Yes we did, that's part of the shot itself. 1:31-1:32 shows it from the perspective from space. Technically, Superman dodging those bullets should have shown Superman as too fast for the eye to perceive.
Superman is more durable. His showing against the World Engine and all of the kryptonians was more impressive,. Superman had greater striking power, and that was certainly prevalent. Essentially, he hits harder, he's faster, he's more durable and has greater endurance.
@frozen: It's not.. we see them go up in the air a bit. Cut. Then they're in space. It wasn't a change in perspective. There was nothing to account for the period of time between them beginning their ascent and being in space. It wasn't a continuous flow, it was a cut.
The world engine is ambigious and you can't really prove it isn't. The Kryptonians were all hitting harder than a speeding freight train? Okay. And I just don't agree with your summary.
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