Imperial Guard (40K) vs UNSC (Halo) Ground War

part 2 my question to you what Eldar flyer craft did they out fly ? because the only one I can see in the wikis that they could possibly out dog fight would be the Phoenix fighter-bomber craft which has a combat speed of 60kph or 37.2 mph with a max Recorded Speed of 3,100kph or 1,926mph which is a fast run away speed. but nothing compared to a F-41's max speed of 40,233.6kph or 25,000 mph so still not impressive enough to out do a F-41 in combat. and this fight is the IG not the Imperial navy who are the only ones of the two that operate Fury Interceptor's which is a space or void fighter only thus has no atmospheric capabilities. So again unfortunately for the IG they only have atmospheric craft that are little use as anything more than target practice to a F-41 & an attempt at distracting the UNSC Marine fighters even though they will likely be shot down in a matter of minutes into a dog fight against a F-41.

Thousand Sons > Blood Angels > Imperial Fists

This is when you realize that Guard regiments have Sanctioned psykers. And that if it's an alpha or beta level psyker, you're done. Or Deathstrike missiles. Or maybe the fact your puny modern guns won't make a mark on the Baneblade or maybe that Heavy Bolters will tear up your vehicles and infantry alike. It's like Halo fanboys want the Cadians to stand around waiting for death. They've fought daemons for generations, you think UNSC will stand a chance?

Alpha Legion>Thousand Sons>Blood Angels>Imperial Fists

@killerwasp: Death Guard> All

@kriegvrg: I can settle for that their my second favorite.

@killerwasp: Too bad Mortarion is a bigger dickhead than The Emprah

By your calcs the F-41 is mach 32. No Human can operate that in combat role. No human can even operate Mach 1 in a dog fight. Your poor attempt to low ball Imperial craft is noted. Travel Speed =/= Combat Speed.

And with only 18 post, figures.

@kriegvrg: Yeah true, but i also wish they gave him power, and lets not forget I'd rather have him than Kharn the backstabbing betrayer lol.

@sirfizzwhizz: That speed is its max speed which is leaving the atmosphere as it is both an atmospheric & exo atmospheric fighter Space Shuttles goes 28,968 or 18,000 mph on launch the F -41 only goes slightly faster when exiting the atmosphere due to advancements in Space craft technologies over 500 years. Of course its not the speed it would dog fight at ie its not combat speed .. The fastest speed a Human being can withstand in a maneuvering craft such as a fighter is up to Mach 8 .. which is the likely the max speed the F-41 would dog fight at, that's much faster than the aircraft its up against in this match up. As Mach 8 = 6089.66 mph. so in any case the F-41 out does all of the IoM's atmospheric aircraft.

Still Imperial Guard.

@kriegvrg: two things one the Sanctioned psykers aren't members of the Imperial Guard they are attached to the Imperial Guard so wouldn't really count in a match that is supposed to be the Imperial Guard alone. Besides that factor , The UNSC its self is from a universe where the warp doesn't exist and can't exist due to the physics of that universe. The Psykers can't affect Psychic Blanks which have no connection to the warp, So logic would dictate that a human group from a universe that the Warp doesn't exist would have no connection to the warp just like Psychic Blanks in the 40k universe thus the UNSC would be unaffected by psychic means making the Sanctioned psykers effectively useless in this debate.

Moving on to the Baneblade its armor going with the more popular Mars pattern consisted of Super structure : 200mm or 7.8 inches of armor, Hull : 180mm or 7.0 inches, Gun mount 180mm or 7.0inches. This armor is thinner than a Modern M1 Abrams, and is made of layers of Ceramite and Plasteel. Ceramite is a form of ceramic material ie modern tank armor. Plasteel is a type of advanced synthetic material that has the consistency of plastic but the tensile strength of a steel alloy. So is as strong as modern Steel alloy construction. This means unfortunately for 40k fans the Baneblade can be punched through by a few weapons in halo. of which tank vs tank I would say the Grizzly would punch two 120mm holes in the baneblade from a fire distance away, this isn't for the Baneblades lack of firepower the Baneblades main cannon could just as easily penetrate the Grizzlies considerably thicker armor. The Baneblades main problem is in its design as it is a slow tank only having a max speed of 25kph or 15.5mph both the Scorpion at 96.5kph or 60mph & the Grizzly at 69kph or 43mph are capable of running circles around the Baneblade .. ps the first thing tank commanders that get stuck with the Scorpion do is replace the factory 90mm with a 105mm cannon because a 90mm pop gun will only piss off a hunter if you shoot one in the face lol. other weapons are things like the Spartan laser which is a shoulder fired lascannon equivalent & the M-41 SSR 102mm missile launcher. other than that air to ground missiles & mini mac guns like the M68 Gauss Cannon, Mk 2488 Mac cannon and Mk 2457/35cm HRG a mini mac usually mounted on the M510 Mammoth anti armor/anti air/ anti ships/Siegeworks/ultra-heavy assault platform. Those are a few weapons systems that could destroy a Baneblade.

The Heavy bolter ill give you is a great anti infantry weapon. its not going to destroy either a Scorpion or a Grizzly it could damage them though just like any other weapon hitting anything does some damage. The heavy bolter however has its flaws such as its 40 round box magazines & single barrel design limits its rpms and other ammo fed systems jam to often leading to worst problems for infantry against M12 LRVs "warthogs" which are armed with a 50cal M46 Gatling machine gun firing an estimated 1,000 to 2,000 rpm this estimation is based on the fact that the warthogs standard machine gun is based off the GAU-19/A which we use today on everything from HMMWVs to helicopters. The warthog has a max speed of 125kph/ 78mph. so its moving fast hitting and running. that's just the standard version there is also the M12R which uses a MLRs rocket turret, M12A1 uses a 102mm rocket turret, M12G1 uses the M68 Gauss Cannon. those are the versions useful against infantry & ground vehicles.

But again against infantry the Heavy bolter is effective. just don't try shooting any vehicles that are better armored than the M12 warthogs of the UNSC as the Heavy bolters .998 caliber or 25.3492mm round wouldn't be effective against a tank.

@kriegvrg: Ps I don't expect the Cadians or any IG force to stand around & wait for death. I expect them to put up a hell of a fight. And expect the UNSC to have some amount of losses of ground forces. However this being strickly the Imperial Guard without any help form any other forces in the IoM which rules out Psykers or anyone else getting involved. The IG are forced to fly aircraft that they have fairly little experience with since their force is in cannon only a ground force that relies on the Imperial Navy normally. This means the IG with aircraft that are inferior in speed & maneuverability to their UNSC counter parts. These atmospheric fighters being flown by IG pilots who have no experience with the craft before we decided to give them flight school, thus are rookie pilots going up against the UNSC Marine Corps veteran pilots who fought the Covenant over a 30 year period so are the equivalent of the top of the class pilots from top gun the fighter school not the movie. thus we have rookie pilots vs. pilots with a minimum of 5-10 years of experience with some having as much as 30 years in the pilots seat. you see the Imperial Guards issue with attempting to fight UNSC Marine pilots who have superior fighters. they really have no chance against UNSC Marine pilots in the air and that means they overall lose due to UNSC air power taking air superiority which as we both know the Imperial Guard can't win when the UNSC has the air above them covered & can attack at will. hence the reason all modern militaries take air superiority as soon as possible at the beginning of wars. air superiority = win. lack of air power against a enemy who has air power = lose. the IG lack the ability to gain air superiority its as simple as that.

@john_7547: i guess we take out lascannons, multilasers, deathstrike missiles, missile launchers, rocket launchers, hydra tanks, and pretty much everything else. Not to mention superior numbers, standard infantry firearms that outgun any rifle the UNSC can offer, and of course an insane amount of standard tanks. Lightnings and other air superiority fighters generally have lascannons correct? You're telling me that out of all the Imperial Guard on Cadia of all places, every single pilot will be a rookie. OF ALL PLANETS TO DOWNPLAY, YOU CHOSE CADIA. And I guess every pilot and soldier from the UNSC is a veteran who can destroy the IG no problem huh.

@kriegvrg: First thing yes the IG get all their normal equipment.. we on here decided to add aircraft that canonically speaking the IG doesn't fly its self rather relies on the Imperial Navy for air support. That means the IG as a whole has next to no experience flying aircraft themselves. This includes Cadia's Imperial guardsmen who would be rookies in air combat compared the UNSC Marine pilots who have been fighting dog fights for the last 30 years which equates to between 3-10 years or more of combat experience allowing for combat deaths due to the conditions of the war. this makes most of them more experience in air to air combat. since most of the rookie pilots during the 30 plus year war that is still going on either became veterans quickly or died leaving only the top aces in the fight of course their are still new pilots who were trained by the veterans of the war so are well trained & have some experience as the UNSC needed every pilot it could train in the fight during the human covenant war & post war battles. this makes for about a 50/50 split between combat veteran aces & newer pilots post war all of which have seen some action. that said no not all UNSC troops are veterans but at least half are and the other half have some combat experience. not to many are fresh from basic training.

Not to mention the Lighting fighters stats read operation ceiling 36,000 meters , max speed 2,400kph or 1491mph or Mach 1.9, its fuel range 8,000km or 4,970 miles. now lets compare it to the F-41 Broadsword , Operational ceiling .. Space, space combat / max possible speed 25,000 mph ... Max speed in atmosphere combat 9799kph or 6089mph or Mach 8 in combat , Fuel range it can circuit navigate the planet need I say more on that one..

btw As for hydra tanks, deathstrike missiles, missile launchers & rocket launchers that could shoot down a atmospheric craft . I have two counters the first is that Modern Aircraft have Missile Approach Warning systems intergraded into their avionics.. an fighter 500 years in the future obviously would still use this feature. Second thing anti air missiles have a max range on them which isn't space. The F-41 can use its after burners to go its max speed straight up into space were it would be safe from attack.

another interesting feature of the UNSCs forces is that they use a IFF (friend or foe system) which allows them to know were all friendly forces including aircraft are & thus allows them to know the exact location of enemy forces including aircraft. which btw the UNSC Marines have anti air systems also which I will list in the next post. ...

@kriegvrg: Now the list of UNSC anti air weapons ... M95 Lance surface to air MLRS system, M71 Scythe AA gun, Anaconda surface-to-air missile system, SAM sites or surface to air missile defense network fires ASRGAM 10X ground to air missiles, M19-B Surface-to-Air Missile Launcher, M9 Wolverine, M12 M missile warthog, M12A1, M12R, The M510 Mammoth is equip with 2x M97 MLRS rocket launchers capable of locking on to aircraft & 1 M2457/35cm HRG mini Mac gun capable of downing aircraft & even starships as well as hitting ground targets. The XRP12 Gremlin is a vehicle that uses a Non nuclear emp cannon to hamper, interfere with, and disable enemy electronics. Ie vehicle is working one minute & not the next. btw the standard lasgun has been equated to a .50cal weapon in this debate, the UNSC has .57cal sniper rifles & the M99 Stanchion SASR which is a 5.4mm/.21 caliber weapon that is fired via magnetic acceleration or gauss tech which is basically a coilgun using electromagnetism. This system gives this small round the capability to rip targets apart, even through office buildings. This is due to the high force imparted on the round via the Gauss acceleration method. The round creates shockwaves as it passes through the target. In the case of material targets, this is a minor explosion and the creation of structural fractures. In the case of personnel targets, it simultaneously rips apart and pulverizes the body. The rounds have been known to have the ability to travel great distances without affecting the trajectory, delivering enough force to punch through instacrete pylons, blow a human apart, and continue on course through an abandoned parking lot roughly 4 miles away. The standard range it is used at is around 3 miles. So Imperial Guard with lasgun gets hit by a sniper from miles away with one shot , one kill, The guardsmen around him get to watch his body explode in half, A near miss can kill a target with this weapon. So again how out armed exactly are the UNSC Marines ?...

I agree they are outmanned considering the population they are dealing with. but they aren't quite totally out gunned in this match up. Although it is undoubtable that the UNSC Marines will rely heavily on their aircraft in this match up as they don't have the numbers to go head to head in a straight ground war without air support. hint the Marine Corps motto " The Few, The Proud, The Marines", The UNSC Marine Corps is directly designed like the USMC of modern times.

@kriegvrg: Cadia aint the best.

@killerwasp: I am more of a Krieger fan. Or Steel Legion. However, neither of those planets face waves of Chaos end on end.

I concede defeat for this IG vs UNSC.

@kriegvrg: Thanks and the only reason I saw a UNSC victory is they took the Navy away from the Imperial Guards. which is how do I say stupid in a nice way. Because we both know realistically the Navy would respond to the IGs call for help just like the UNSC Navy. the difference maybe the size of the fleets depending on the UNSC fleet as some of their defensive fleets number 300 plus ships or more in the case of Earth which had over 500 ships & 300 super mac platforms, needless to say a fleet the size of the UNSC home fleet shows up the Imperial navy would be in for a fight. luckily the chance are the UNSC Infinity & its small number of escorts are likely to appear instead lol. Unfortunately the Infinity & her escorts carry Spartans over 500 of them on the Infinity alone. the Max number of Spartans particularly Spartan VIs is unknown currently. but that's a lot of Super soldiers to deploy. if 500 were deployed from one ship imagine how may would be in a expeditionary fleet of roughly 11 ships give or take since the Infinity is technically part of home fleet. That would be way more than an average Space Marine deployment. granted Spartans are supposed to be slightly faster version of Space Marines lite lol. ( this is probably more due to armor as Space Marines wear heavier armor obviously lol.

@killerwasp: The Cadia Imperial Guard are good soldiers but when you take away their main air support which in canon is their only air support. Then put them up against a force that has Intergraded air support such as the UNSC Marines the good soldiers of the Imperial Guard get murder form the sky. The UNSC Marines don't have the manpower to stand & fight a straight up ground battle which is why they have intergraded air support in their own ranks normally. The UNSC Marines would know their only chance is to pound the Imperial Guard around the clock with both their massive 440mm artillery guns & air strikes. That is the only way they can win.

@john_7547: it's actually less weight surprisingly, but in any case their power armor doesn't weigh them down, but enhances their movement speed and power. Besides, in the 40k universe, they can't deploy so many SM when there are countless wars going on.

If we are comparing fleets, lance batteries on regular Luna cruisers have an output of TERAJOULES of energy. Basically lascannons that are covie × a few thousand.

@john_7547: ik whom the warhammer universe is, it was a joke lol. Also space marines if u really want to walk faster than spartans. They have aim bot and so on designed into them, and stuff. So Space marines as a whole better than spartans.

Two best IGs ever XD

@killerwasp: depends on the Spartan generation & what armor & attachments they are using. its dam hard to kill something that has the capability to drop from space without a drop pod ie the MJOLNIR Mk 7 armor & has nano bots to repair both the armor & user. as with attachments its hard to hit an invisible target via active camo or even concentrate fire enough to kill it when the target deploys attack drones. these are things that come with Spartans as attachments to their armor. along with a bunch of other toys they get to play with that Space Marines don't have thanks to the Age of Strife . and yes back in the DAoT the IoM had drones to assist them.

Besides that from what I have seen online the estimated Space Marine running speed is 55 mph . Spartans can sprint at 65 mph or more in the case of Kelly. that makes Spartans a little faster, Space Marines can out distance them though. and agility wise the Space Marines armor limits him more than the MJOLNIR which is designed not to limit but rather enhance a Spartans abilities by a factor of 5 without an AI that doubles that to a factor of 10 times their normal unarmored abilities.

Spartans would get some kills but the IG is just too overpowered to lose here.

Toss in one forerunner War Sphinx to even this up a bit.

@killerwasp: they're the toughest for sure. I don't see ODST's or marines standing against them.

@kriegvrg: Honestly Legion of Steel wouldn't have much trouble, as much as I love DKoK they would suffer some losses as their track record although good, their men have lost to heretics which had not so much training ( aka siege of vraks IIRC ).

@john_7547:That's wrong its Spartans dont run 65 mph, and if u really wanna see some stats u'd see space marines walking at 80 mph. No it doesnt matter what spartan version, only a select few spartans could match moot space marines. Overall Space marines win against all other spartans. 200 years + training, and judging from ur debate u debate everything on training. Space marines train for 23 hours a day so meh.

It's raining deathstrikes....alleluja!

@killerwasp: true, but that was also horrible command against a heavily fortified force. They're obeying without doubt. Their one weakness. They're basically the Death Guard's IG counterpart.

Yeah, seriously. SM's only ever expand their knowledge and strengths. Lucius the Eternal adapted so quickly in combat. Hell, a squad of Termies pre-heresy rushed a fortress alone (HH novels) and broke inside. The tenth company killed thousands within an hour.

@kriegvrg: but Deathguard is still amazing XD

Yep Alpha legion ( second ) mopped the floor without losing a soldier against a heavy fortified enemy and killing IIRc hundreds of thousands, and when they asked why they didnt allow them to surrender or just take it, they said cause it was too easy.

@killerwasp: spartans aint ever beating a sm with this kinda power. I mean, even named heroes with plot might. Fair is Abaddon vs chief :)

@kriegvrg: lol, Id say if u gave chief blue squad gave them railguns, spartan laser, rod fuel guns, or forerunner weapons they could win. hint I said could win. MC the plotter could solo due to "luck" :)

@killerwasp: realistically. Abaddon gets his lightning claws. Blue Team including Kurt the genius have standard weapons and a rocket. If it helps, Abaddon got crushed by a pillar and still fought off a Luna Wolves captain (Loken) with just his hands. Maybe throw in Lucius pre-fked up with his power sword.

@kriegvrg: No i meant as in regular spartans, Even if jobbed his hardest he couldnt lose to the spartans LOL. That right there is heresy lol.

@killerwasp: actually Space Marines don't train 23 hours a day that is biologically impossible even for them as they would go insane within a few years. the longest a Space Marine has been awake for in combat was 328 hours without sleep. that's their limit. beyond that they will feel the affects of sleep deprivation. Spartans use cocktail of drugs in combat to stay awake. MC isn't the oldest Spartan but in armor he managed to stay wake for roughly 6 months in combat or 4,383 hours of course he had years in cryo sleep before that & his suit was giving him drugs that keep him awake. The oldest Spartans are the Spartan Is Sergeant Major Johnson was a Spartan I ... he's physical age at death was 68 + according to canon. his actually age could range from 68 to over 100 years old. as he was born in the mid 2400s and died in 2552 . That would make any surviving Spartan Is of which there were 300 of them created by the ORION Project.

Btw training 23 hours a day isn't vary useful when your tactical manual of training is based on one style of combat. In the Space Marines case that is direct engagements with no stealth or other tactics. In some chapters they have a no camouflage rule. this makes them much more predictable to a Spartan who is trained to adapt to combat conditions, change tactics when needed & basically think outside the box as rangers call it.

@john_7547: the codex specifically states that if you have to change to survive, do it. Night Lords are stealthy. Alpha Legion SOMEHOW are quite stealthy. Besides all Astartes helmets have auto-scanners. On the planet Murder, the Emperor's Children had to develop swordsman based strats to defeat the megarachnid with bolters specifically for long ranged volleys. Being in cryo doesn't make you any more experienced. If we're using named heroes, lets use Captain Garro. Or Abaddon the Despoiler. Maybe Lucius the Eternal? Right. Not so fair now is it? They'd solo Chief or the Mk1's.

@killerwasp: regular Spartans ? .. there aren't any real normal Spartans to speak of .. The Spartan 4s are mostly ODST & other special forces vets. who have gone through augmentations that include cybernetics being implanted throughout their bodies, bone enhancement augmentations, muscular injections, and my personal favorite having with the exception of their brans, virtually all other organs in their body either modified in some manner or replaced. Spartan IIs has this done as well the Spartan Is augmentations were just as extensive and are unknown, they lead to the subsequence generations development so could have most of the same augmentations.

The Spartans IVs were gen 2 armor exclusively although other Spartans can & do wear it as well as of 2558 in the halo universe.

This armor comes with a long list of fun toys from attachments to built in armor abilities. such as armor lock which protects them from both bullets & explosive weapons, built in thrusters allowing them to evade attacks quicker, built in jet pack, the capability to bypass the safety limiters of the MJOLNIR actuators they call it sprint, stun blast it has about the effect of being hit by lighting here's a pic http://www.halopedia.org/File:HSA_-_StunBlastEffect.png any thing that comes in that radius gets destroyed. they can also teleport via Slipspace through a device similar to the teleport homer used by terminators in 40k.

A few unique tricks Spartans have developed over the games ie by halo 5. are things like using their thrusters to aggressively launch a "ground pound", hammering any nearby enemies with concussive force that can damage or destroy vehicles including tanks. So in any case Spartans aren't exactly easy targets given their level of technology availability.

@kriegvrg: In a first contact scenario The Space Marines would likely follow standard operation tactics, which for Most Astarte's don't use stealth preferring to drop into direct combat with the enemy. This would be suicide against an enemy that uses drones that carry enough firepower to gut a tank. However the ones you mention that use stealth would stand a better chance. As for the auto scanners or techical term multi scanner they have two problems the first is short range the Spartans most effective weapons are all long range putting them normally outside sensor range for the average Space Marine. The second problem is that there is nothing to suggest that the multi sensors or auto sensors are jammer proof thus they can likely be jammed by the Spartans using jammer tech that they have in canon. Active camo jams sensors in addition to making the user effective invisible by bending light around them. In addition the Spartans armor may incorporate photo reactive panels to impersonate the surrounding environment like a chameleon. This means its hard to spot them much less hit them especially at a distance such as a sniper like the famous Spartan II sniper Linda-058. She took out enemy pilots while hanging upside down from a steel cable on a moving ship repair station with one handed shooting. That kind of accuracy means when Space Marine commanders are spotted giving commands she puts a single round in their eye ball from miles away. The other Space Marines watch their commanders head blow off or him just drop dead than hear a boom from the rifle. This would be a untraceable shot especially given that Spartans move after they fire to another location and shot again when ready. basically sniper school 101 shoot & maneuver never fire twice from the same spot if in a two man team. A single shot can't be triangulated to the shooter as a rule of physics.

@john_7547: little did you know the lens for an astartes helmet are actually so strong that (in Horus Rising)when the armor was ruined by the explosions, the lenses were perfectly fine. Megarachnid claws, easily punching through ceramite and adamantium could only scratch the helmet. Your argument of sniping a commander is invalid. Also, in every engagement, the Sons of Horus specifically ALL wore helmets, including Abaddon and Luc Sedirae. Even Lucius who is an esteemed warrior opts to wear a helmet. The myth that many officers do not wear helmets is a post-heresy loyalist trend. Even then, many officers of the Astartes and even the IG wear refractor shields that tank hotshot Lasguns and heavy stubbers. They had to be popped by tanks and power swords. (Gaunt's Ghosts Omnibus)

@john_7547: lol give me sometime when I get off work and I'll put this to an end. First things first stop or do not compare real life to sci fi that bends the rules all the time anyway I'll answer it in time as I'm on my mobile right now

@kriegvrg: Considering the Sniper rifles in halo are anti material not anti personal. and the No Helmet Custom among Astarte's . Ie It is fairly common to see a Space Marine in combat without his helmet, especially among sergeants and officers,and many Astarte's choose to remove their helmet when there is no immediate danger present. ( A sniper around 3 miles away that is invisible at that range due to active camo wouldn't appear to be a immediate threat until the first round hit its mark ) . Despite the added risk this practice presents, or perhaps because of that added danger, many Astarte's see this practice as an honorable act of courage and even defiance to the Emperor's enemies. The absence of a helmet does mean that the Astarte's loses the Autosenses that are housed within his armor. So It is vary likely that the Space Marine officers & sergeants aren't wearing helmets at all. So sniping is still valid. btw the Photolenses aren't even armor they are used to protect the Space Marine from dazzling light bursts. They also allow him to see into the infrared and ultraviolet ranges, as well as enabling vision in low-light conditions. So are basically built in sunglasses & night vision/Infrared/ultraviolet googles in one. they may have survived an explosion but their are other factors that can cause a piece of equipment to survived a explosion. ie was the helmet thrown clear of the explosion ... possibly. So surviving an explosive force that destroyed the armor really doesn't prove that they are bullet proof.

A .57cal sabot round the .57cal was used as an anti tank round in ww2 & cold war & is still used today in anti material / anti vehicle roles. The rounds fired form halo's standard sniper rifle are Armor-Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding-Sabot rounds, and High Velocity, Armor Piercing rounds. The rounds are described as being made of very hard metal, with the core probably composed of tungsten or depleted uranium.

@john_7547: Pre-Heresy, NONE of the Astartes went without helmet. None. Not even captains. Post-battle or pre-battle, they MIGHT just to have some fresh air. But the helmet itself has no eyeholes. Has a refractor lens that CAN'T even be destroyed by something that flensed an Astartes with ease. In fact, of the dead, the one piece of armor that wasn't destroyed was the lens.

Bro, in Horus Rising, the novel, it took 2-3 consecutive .75 bolter shells to the chest to down a marine. Smaller arms fire simply comes right off. Vindicare assassins use specialized ammunition to take out traitor marines since their durability is so high. A Luna Wolf had his arm crushed by an INVISIBLE enemy but with one other ally, crushed every single combatant. These Invisibles had the same sort of cloaking as spartans could have. The astartes cut off his own arm with a chainsword and went back into the fray good as new, albeit with one arm. James the Spartan was severely weakened and came back into the fight against the Hunters in Fall of Reach. If a simple Astartes (Nero Vipus) can easily get rid of his arm and hop back into battle, and a named spartan cant, by default SM is more durable. Chief didnt just make a jump from space by the way, he had to ride a piece of the debris and even then, he was disabled for "who knows how long?" to quote Johnson. We don't know if SMs can because they never had the need to. They have enough pods for everyone.

@john_7547: Okay first before we get into this, I want you to know that I have no biased statements towards either side cause their both cool sci fis, I'm also glad to see someone else representing halo cause its usually placed lower than it actually is. Anyway now to it.

Now the break down

actually Space Marines don't train 23 hours a day that is biologically impossible even for them as they would go insane within a few years.

Actually they do, quotes down below explain how they are made, and their training.

Every Chapter of Space Marines must induct new warriors into its ranks in order to survive. Most have recruited from their Chapter Planets and nearby worlds since the foundation of their brotherhood. This explains why many Chapters are based on feral or otherwise deadly worlds - the recruiting stock is far stronger on planets where every day is a struggle to survive. Aspirants must always be chosen when they are young, before they become too mature to accept the gene-seed that will turn them into Space Marines. Each gene-seed comprises a series of genetically tailored organs that are carefully implanted into the recruit's body. These act upon the body's natural chemistry in conjunction with hypnotherapy and physical training. For example, the implantation of a small organ called the biscopea greatly accentuates the effects of hormones controlling muscle growth, and so is the foundation of a Space Marine's prodigious strength.

Gene-seed is a finite resource, for it is a direct delineant of the bio-manipulations that created the Emperor's Primarchs. In a very real sense, the blood of the Primarchs flows through each Space Marine's veins. It is without doubt a Chapter's single most valuable possession, for it alone allows the continued recruitment and development of Battle-Brothers. Gene-seed implants work in conjunction with body tissues to stimulate natural abilities or create abilities that are wholly new. The implants rely on the body's natural growth process to incorporate them into the Space Marine's physiology. This organ implantation goes hand in hand with a harsh routine of physical and spiritual training. This is achieved by means of hypnotic suggestion, prolonged meditation, vigorous spiritual tests, and gradual initiation into the cult rites of the Chapter. All of these processes serve to harden the Space Marine's mental prowess and sharpen his instinctual senses.

-Codex: Space Marines 3rd Edition ( also all supported by the White Dwarf Warhammer 40K Compendium 1989 version as well and just about any space marine codex )

Each battle brother of the Adeptus Astartes is a champion, a hero of a hundred campaigns. Even before their transformation from man to superhuman they are the bravest and most promising scions of their worlds, most hailing from fierce warriors cultures on the deadliest death worlds.

-Codex Space Marines 4th Edition

so with that said, yes it wasn't 23 hours my bad, it was 21, still close enough for like 200 years yeah, btw they are immortal after all, as said down here. ( having trouble finding the quote of their training but nevertheless u can read the big quotes and get the idea along with the quote down below about their age and stuff )

To all intents and purposes, and by every measurement known to the gene-scientists and gerontologists, the Astartes, like the primarchs, were immortals. Age would not wither them, nor bring them down. They would live forever… five thousand years, ten thousand, beyond even that into some unimaginable millennium. Except for the scythe of war.

Immortal, but not invulnerable. Immortality was a by-product of their Astartes strengths. Yes, they might live forever, but they would never get the chance. Immortality was a by-product of their Astartes strengths, but those strengths had been gene-built for combat. They had been born immortal only to die in war. That was the way of it. Brief, bright lives. Like Hastur Sejanus, the warrior Loken was replacing. Only the beloved Emperor, who had left the warring behind, would truly live forever.”

-Warhammer Horus Heresy series; Horus Rising.

So either way, yeah they can do what you would consider impossible. Once more this is sci fi not real life....

the longest a Space Marine has been awake for in combat was 328 hours without sleep. that's their limit. beyond that they will feel the affects of sleep deprivation.

Says whom? You? Provide proof please.

because once more It'd say you dont know ur space marines very well

Catalepsean Node - The Unsleeping Space Marines can rest half of their brain at once, and thus stay awake for days at a time. The Catalepsean Node which makes this possible is implanted into the brain where it controls circadian rhythms of sleep and the Space Marine's response to sleep deprivation.

-Codex: Space Marines 3rd Edition

Spartans use cocktail of drugs in combat to stay awake. MC isn't the oldest Spartan but in armor he managed to stay wake for roughly 6 months in combat or 4,383 hours of course he had years in cryo sleep before that & his suit was giving him drugs that keep him awake.

You dont need to explain all this halo stuff, Ik my halo lore I got the books.... Second off proof? Ik he fought days on the ring, but not 6 months in actual combat. I'd like evidence please.

The oldest Spartans are the Spartan Is Sergeant Major Johnson was a Spartan I ... he's physical age at death was 68 + according to canon. his actually age could range from 68 to over 100 years old. as he was born in the mid 2400s and died in 2552 . That would make any surviving Spartan Is of which there were 300 of them created by the ORION Project.

Once more I dont need to know this, Ik halo Lol.

Btw training 23 hours a day isn't vary useful when your tactical manual of training is based on one style of combat. In the Space Marines case that is direct engagements with no stealth or other tactics. In some chapters they have a no camouflage rule. this makes them much more predictable to a Spartan who is trained to adapt to combat conditions, change tactics when needed & basically think outside the box as rangers call it.

Actually its all different combat training that can happen, they train for what their chapter does best. Also They can't predict crap, as the Space Marines themselves are very different. Alpha legion for starters is a thorn in the Imperial side, because thats all they do is ambushes and go behind the lines to mess up their foes. This was literally proven when they killed an entire SM chapter without hardly any problems. They caused in fighting amongst the space marines due to special planning and so on. We got Night warriors who raid and cause havoc through terror tactics, we got thousand sons who use magic to side aid them and other chapters as well that apply their tactics and training to their every day life. I'm sorry, but space marines are so much more tougher than the spartan foes that's a fact. Furthermore Space marines carry the weapons to drop a spartan while as I pointed out the only real weapons that could have a chance at dropping a SM is those weapons there, not even the UNSC sniper could do it, maybe the covies, but yes besides forerunners those UNSC weapons are nothing they will just ping off. Space marine bolter is just one of the standard weapons the SM's carry, they got plenty of others and their bolter rounds hit harder than the UNSC sniper rifle. Furthermore they got aim bot by every meaning of the word, so without even training that hard they could shoot the spartans on sight.

@kriegvrg Whelp hard life is hard lol huehue.

@killerwasp: I can't believe we're still going on with this. Literally, an Imperial Guard officer with refractor shields could most likely take down a Spartan one on one. A line of lasguns and long-las did nothing. A missile launcher sent him off his feet. No damage. It took a power sword. Realistically, how many spartans carry an energy sword. Likewise, many IG officers don't use power swords but that chainsword skills going to beat any knife a Spartan can wield...seeing as nothing but power weapons or tanks can destroy the energy shields.

@kriegvrg: idk why u asking me lol, XD and no spartans carry energy swords thats a covenant weapon. lol.

@killerwasp: in several sm vs spartan arguments, magically energy swords are there and can counter power swords which is clearly not true.

@kriegvrg: that's because people don't know the difference between unsc weapons and covenant weapons. Yes the same arguments happen with light sabers and so on

@killerwasp: too bad energy swords and lightsabers dont cut things at a molecular level.

@kriegvrg: Woah i never claimed they were on par, just saying people always say that about any and all weapons, biggest difference imo is the magic(warp) behind it that makes it a threat, both are not bad weapons to have either.

@killerwasp: oh i was just saying. Not meaning to offend you, mate. Yeah, I am pretty sure no one else could survive the warp either.