#1 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

No Help from Fleets.

All the Imperial Guard of Cadia hold out against all the UNSC of Earth?

Cadia:

..

vs

UNSC

#2 Posted by OneVision_OnePurpose (289 posts) - - Show Bio

Cadia has a population of 850,000,000. with 71.75% under arms, so we can put their numbers at 609,875,000. That being said the entire population is trained so its entirely possible much more of the population can take part. By ten years old children are proficient in killing.

#3 Edited by Mirabel (1087 posts) - - Show Bio

The UNSC uses primarily modern weapons or modern +1 weapons. The sniper rifle you see in Halo is a real and actual anti-materiel rifle used by the South African military today for example. So that puts a firm cap on the UNSC's tech. General calcs for lasguns give them firepower akin to .50 cals, blowing off limbs, exploding body parts, piercing through crap tons of material. So your average guardsman is both more durable and in possession of far more firepower than a UNSC grunt. Addittionally, in terms of armoured warfare; the UNSC's Scorpion tank is absolute and total crap.

It weighs as much as a modern M1A2 Abrams, it is significantly slower than a modern M1A2 Abrams, and it's main weapon is a 90mm popgun, which actually makes it *inferior* to it's modern day equivalent (an Abrams sports around a 120mm gun). A Leman Russ's rear armor could shrug off anything Halo can throw at it, and it will one shot any UNSC vehicle. In terms of air power, those Hornets are going to go down like flies against Valkyries, Vultures, Vendettas, Lightnings, and Thunderbolts, who are far faster, far tougher, and have far more firepower, so the IG will establish air supremacy with ease.

Artillery wise, the IG is completely, utterly, and totally superior to the UNSC in every imaginable way, so they'll dominate here.

Ancillary vehicle wise, once again the IG dominates. A Taurus is tougher than a Warthog and carries more powerful weapons. The UNSC doesn't invest into APCs as far as I can tell, and even if they did, the multilaser on a chimera should chew through it like paper. That double barelled Upgrade for the Scorpion would still get smoked by a basic Leman Russ tank, an actual Baneblade is going to be completely impervious at any point to anything the UNSC has for ground weapons. Even the bottom of a Baneblade's hull is too tough for Halo's anti-vehicular weaponry, nevermind the front, sides, and rear. And of course, I'd say even a Baneblades heavy bolters could chew through Halo's tanks, while it's main gun or demolisher cannon would turn entire Scorpion tank companies into burning slag and debris with one shot.

So to reiterate, on a one on one basis, a Guardsman is far better equipped than his UNSC counterpart so the IG will dominate in infantry firefights, the Imperial Guard's tanks and vehicles are so vastly superior that it's not even funny so they'll curbstomp the UNSC in mechanized warfare, the IG makes much greater and far better use of it's artillery which is superior to Halo's, and the IG's aircraft are OMGWTF better than the UNSC's in most every way imaginable and will attain air supremacy in a heartbeat. On the field of modern-esque ground warfare, the UNSC literally has no chance against an IG force of Cadia's caliber. But hey, at least it's not like space warfare where the UNSC would fail to kill so much as a single Imperial navy ship due to the even larger differences in firepower in that theater!

Game, set, match.

If you want a sci-fi universe that can match 40k at it's a-game on the ground, try Supreme Commander or Total Annhiliation. Even Star Wars would get Roflstomped by 40k on the ground.

#4 Posted by RoyHarperBLOW (1494 posts) - - Show Bio

#5 Posted by Alice_Summers (1211 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Posted by OneVision_OnePurpose (289 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mirabel said:

The UNSC uses primarily modern weapons or modern +1 weapons. The sniper rifle you see in Halo is a real and actual anti-materiel rifle used by the South African military today for example. So that puts a firm cap on the UNSC's tech. General calcs for lasguns give them firepower akin to .50 cals, blowing off limbs, exploding body parts, piercing through crap tons of material. So your average guardsman is both more durable and in possession of far more firepower than a UNSC grunt. Addittionally, in terms of armoured warfare; the UNSC's Scorpion tank is absolute and total crap.

It weighs as much as a modern M1A2 Abrams, it is significantly slower than a modern M1A2 Abrams, and it's main weapon is a 90mm popgun, which actually makes it *inferior* to it's modern day equivalent (an Abrams sports around a 120mm gun). A Leman Russ's rear armor could shrug off anything Halo can throw at it, and it will one shot any UNSC vehicle. In terms of air power, those Hornets are going to go down like flies against Valkyries, Vultures, Vendettas, Lightnings, and Thunderbolts, who are far faster, far tougher, and have far more firepower, so the IG will establish air supremacy with ease.

Artillery wise, the IG is completely, utterly, and totally superior to the UNSC in every imaginable way, so they'll dominate here.

Ancillary vehicle wise, once again the IG dominates. A Taurus is tougher than a Warthog and carries more powerful weapons. The UNSC doesn't invest into APCs as far as I can tell, and even if they did, the multilaser on a chimera should chew through it like paper. That double barelled Upgrade for the Scorpion would still get smoked by a basic Leman Russ tank, an actual Baneblade is going to be completely impervious at any point to anything the UNSC has for ground weapons. Even the bottom of a Baneblade's hull is too tough for Halo's anti-vehicular weaponry, nevermind the front, sides, and rear. And of course, I'd say even a Baneblades heavy bolters could chew through Halo's tanks, while it's main gun or demolisher cannon would turn entire Scorpion tank companies into burning slag and debris with one shot.

So to reiterate, on a one on one basis, a Guardsman is far better equipped than his UNSC counterpart so the IG will dominate in infantry firefights, the Imperial Guard's tanks and vehicles are so vastly superior that it's not even funny so they'll curbstomp the UNSC in mechanized warfare, the IG makes much greater and far better use of it's artillery which is superior to Halo's, and the IG's aircraft are OMGWTF better than the UNSC's in most every way imaginable and will attain air supremacy in a heartbeat. On the field of modern-esque ground warfare, the UNSC literally has no chance against an IG force of Cadia's caliber. But hey, at least it's not like space warfare where the UNSC would fail to kill so much as a single Imperial navy ship due to the even larger differences in firepower in that theater!

Game, set, match.

If you want a sci-fi universe that can match 40k at it's a-game on the ground, try Supreme Commander or Total Annhiliation. Even Star Wars would get Roflstomped by 40k on the ground.

@Alice_Summers said:

Thousands of Spartan IV's for the stomp

followed by a dozen of these

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL_Mark_I_Prototype_Armor_Defense_System

I have to say, I can't tell which is the more convincing argument.

#7 Posted by Alice_Summers (1211 posts) - - Show Bio

@OneVision_OnePurpose said:

@Mirabel said:

The UNSC uses primarily modern weapons or modern +1 weapons. The sniper rifle you see in Halo is a real and actual anti-materiel rifle used by the South African military today for example. So that puts a firm cap on the UNSC's tech. General calcs for lasguns give them firepower akin to .50 cals, blowing off limbs, exploding body parts, piercing through crap tons of material. So your average guardsman is both more durable and in possession of far more firepower than a UNSC grunt. Addittionally, in terms of armoured warfare; the UNSC's Scorpion tank is absolute and total crap.

It weighs as much as a modern M1A2 Abrams, it is significantly slower than a modern M1A2 Abrams, and it's main weapon is a 90mm popgun, which actually makes it *inferior* to it's modern day equivalent (an Abrams sports around a 120mm gun). A Leman Russ's rear armor could shrug off anything Halo can throw at it, and it will one shot any UNSC vehicle. In terms of air power, those Hornets are going to go down like flies against Valkyries, Vultures, Vendettas, Lightnings, and Thunderbolts, who are far faster, far tougher, and have far more firepower, so the IG will establish air supremacy with ease.

Artillery wise, the IG is completely, utterly, and totally superior to the UNSC in every imaginable way, so they'll dominate here.

Ancillary vehicle wise, once again the IG dominates. A Taurus is tougher than a Warthog and carries more powerful weapons. The UNSC doesn't invest into APCs as far as I can tell, and even if they did, the multilaser on a chimera should chew through it like paper. That double barelled Upgrade for the Scorpion would still get smoked by a basic Leman Russ tank, an actual Baneblade is going to be completely impervious at any point to anything the UNSC has for ground weapons. Even the bottom of a Baneblade's hull is too tough for Halo's anti-vehicular weaponry, nevermind the front, sides, and rear. And of course, I'd say even a Baneblades heavy bolters could chew through Halo's tanks, while it's main gun or demolisher cannon would turn entire Scorpion tank companies into burning slag and debris with one shot.

So to reiterate, on a one on one basis, a Guardsman is far better equipped than his UNSC counterpart so the IG will dominate in infantry firefights, the Imperial Guard's tanks and vehicles are so vastly superior that it's not even funny so they'll curbstomp the UNSC in mechanized warfare, the IG makes much greater and far better use of it's artillery which is superior to Halo's, and the IG's aircraft are OMGWTF better than the UNSC's in most every way imaginable and will attain air supremacy in a heartbeat. On the field of modern-esque ground warfare, the UNSC literally has no chance against an IG force of Cadia's caliber. But hey, at least it's not like space warfare where the UNSC would fail to kill so much as a single Imperial navy ship due to the even larger differences in firepower in that theater!

Game, set, match.

If you want a sci-fi universe that can match 40k at it's a-game on the ground, try Supreme Commander or Total Annhiliation. Even Star Wars would get Roflstomped by 40k on the ground.

@Alice_Summers said:

Thousands of Spartan IV's for the stomp

followed by a dozen of these

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL_Mark_I_Prototype_Armor_Defense_System

I have to say, I can't tell which is the more convincing argument.

lol I just listed the UNSC's heavy hitters

you guys just listed their weakest units (regular UNSC squads) and pitted them against much more powerful units such as tanks and artillery cannons

The O.D.S..T.. branch can take on the IG they have better ranged weaponry than UNSC marines.

#8 Posted by Mirabel (1087 posts) - - Show Bio

@OneVision_OnePurpose :

Plus, she doesn't seem to realize that in warfare of this scale, a few thousand elite troops are meaningless, especially since Spartans don't pack substantially more firepower than a normal grunt. Plus, given that Covenant Plasma rifles are CANONICALLY stated to have firepower around the 5 kilojoule mark, while a Lasgun's feats put them in the dozens of megajoules, the IG's lasguns are going to chew through Mjolnir armour and their shielding like paper. Actual heavy or specialist weapons like lascannons, meltaguns, plasma guns, krak missiles, and hotshot lasguns will annihilate the poor spartans.

And let's not forget that Cadia produces the finest Stormtroopers the Imperium has, the Karskins, who are as far above other Guardsman stormtroopers as they are above your typical guardsman. Karskins get gene enhancements to make them into low level metahumans (I'd say roughly at 616 Cap's level), has armour that laughs at freaking bolter fire, and have basic weapons capable of piercing right through space marine power armour as well as fearsome melee equipment, unbelievably good training, are highly experienced across the board, and are about as close to fearless as you can get in a human without surgically removing the emotion from them.

#9 Posted by Alice_Summers (1211 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd like to mention it's the heat of the covenant weapons that fudge up the spartans not the kinetic energy.

#10 Edited by Mirabel (1087 posts) - - Show Bio

@Alice_Summers said:

I'd like to mention it's the heat of the covenant weapons that fudge up the spartans not the kinetic energy.

It's still only five kilojoules. This supports the fact that while covenant plasma weaponry is devastating against shields, it's terribad against physical armor. As plasma at this energy level would only burn and boil skin if fired in the fist sized mass you see in the games. An imperial lasgun is generally calced around to being on the order of ten thousand times more energetic, being capable of burning it's way through three meters of concrete at max power. Now tell me, can a spartan take ten thousand plasma rifle shots? No? Then a lasgun will one shot them.

#11 Posted by LordVulcan (209 posts) - - Show Bio

Ya... okay ummm stomp guards stomp. spartan armor even mark 2 isnt gonna be able to take more then what 2 lasgun blasts? if we are going by the 50 cal thing. there argue ably stronger then that.

@Alice_Summers: You dont know much about 40k do you? here http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Guard#.UK_QPuTAdrM

as much as i like halo the unsc doesn't have a chance. guard have more and better tanks. tanks using much more power full weapons. dont even get me started with there artillery.

@CadenceV2: You! why are you doing this? what did the unsc do to you? You couldnt even pick a weaker guard group? STOMP EVERY WERE.

#12 Posted by OneVision_OnePurpose (289 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd also like to mention Cadia has Sanctioned Psykers & Inquisitors.

#13 Posted by Alice_Summers (1211 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mirabel: @LordVulcan:

1. Imperial guards shoot lasers yes but they are not FTL in combat speed, in a matter of fact they still need to aim their gun and shoot which will be hard for people who are faster than them in movement and combat speed, they are used to fighting large easy to shoot enemies who have no strategy but to swarm their enemy, Spartans will not tank hits unless they know they can instead they will evade and counter hit.

2. lol the spartans use their own weapons against them, are the IG going to tank their own lasers?

3.Your downplaying team halo by using their weakest forces

nobody is bringing up the portable 50 mega ton nukes or long swords which are capable of dropping them, are the spartans with active camoflauge.

#14 Posted by LordVulcan (209 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mirabel: sorry you got a source for the five kilojoules? that seems a little bit low going by what i remember from the books.

#15 Posted by Mirabel (1087 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordVulcan said:

@Mirabel: sorry you got a source for the five kilojoules? that seems a little bit low going by what i remember from the books.

Official bungie texts put it at 5 kilojoules. Which is weirdly low, but as we all know, writers generally have no sense of scale. I'd honestly put it at closer to a hundred kilojoules myself, but I can't override the word of bungie.

#16 Edited by LordVulcan (209 posts) - - Show Bio

@Alice_Summers:

1. fairly good point but the guard have enough guys shooting it doesnt matter. Spartans and odsts are the only ones who matter. and even they dont matter on the large scale. your normal unsc marine is done for. pluse guard have gone head to head with these guys. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chaos_Space_Marine#.UK_UpuTAdrM spartans are just smaller versions. there a lot better then any spartan being that bolters are pretty much full auto rocket launchers.

2. no thats space marines job. and i never said the guard could

3. and no not really. there are only so many spartans on earth they cant take on a planet of were 71.75% of the pop is trained for war.

#17 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32891 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mirabel said:

@LordVulcan said:

@Mirabel: sorry you got a source for the five kilojoules? that seems a little bit low going by what i remember from the books.

Official bungie texts put it at 5 kilojoules. Which is weirdly low, but as we all know, writers generally have no sense of scale. I'd honestly put it at closer to a hundred kilojoules myself, but I can't override the word of bungie.

Link or scan?

Online
#18 Posted by LordVulcan (209 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mirabel: well thats nice and all but its my understanding that bungie no longer owns halo... so unless the current owners have said this holds up i see no reason why we shouldnt put it at hundred kilojoules i was thinking only around 50 my self but hey what ever works.

#19 Posted by OneVision_OnePurpose (289 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordVulcan said:

@Mirabel: well thats nice and all but its my understanding that bungie no longer owns halo... so unless the current owners have said this holds up i see no reason why we shouldnt put it at hundred kilojoules i was thinking only around 50 my self but hey what ever works.

Surely you'd assume its the same unless the new company states something to change it? Otherwise nothing established during Bungie's run can be taken for point unless (Microsoft/343?) have come out and confirmed/altered it.

#20 Edited by LordVulcan (209 posts) - - Show Bio

@OneVision_OnePurpose: well if books have come out sense then that show far more power wouldnt that over ride? if the new owners are saying hey this is cannon wouldnt that over ride bungies say? being Microsoft/343 are the new owners.

#21 Posted by OneVision_OnePurpose (289 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordVulcan: If the new books now say the guns now shoot "100 kilojoules" or whatever, sure. That was my point. Or do you mean something has happened in a book or two which suggests they have a higher energy output but there's no hard evidence? Because that's a different matter entirely.

#22 Posted by LordVulcan (209 posts) - - Show Bio

@OneVision_OnePurpose: I bet i can find something that suggests higher energy output in the new books if there any thing like the old. will have to make a stop at the book store or library later and find my self one of the new books.

#23 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

The IG usually stomp any other military force when it comes to ground combat.

Siding with them.

"For every man that falls, 10 more shall take his place"

#24 Posted by Alice_Summers (1211 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordVulcan: eh that's why every spartan will need to be called in and every O.D.S.T.

and remember most of the enemies the IG fight don't fight strategically UNSC generals do which should make up for the number advantage.

#25 Posted by OneVision_OnePurpose (289 posts) - - Show Bio

@Alice_Summers said:

@LordVulcan: eh that's why every spartan will need to be called in and every O.D.S.T.

and remember most of the enemies the IG fight don't fight strategically UNSC generals do which should make up for the number advantage.

Cadians deal primarily with the forces of Chaos whom fight tactically and when the CSM's are involved they have vastly more experience and killing power then any Spartan. Cadians live their lives dealing with opponents more dangerous then Spartans.

I still don't see the UNSC's response to Cadia's armoured regiments, nevermind the infantry superiority.

#26 Posted by JPV02 (14 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont know who told you that guard enemies "dont fight strategically" but clearly that person knows absolutely nothing about the guard because the day to day fights of the guard are constantly enemies such as chaos with centuries of tactical combat experience as well as ingenious strategic and logistic capabilities (check out any dan abnett book for an excellent source) or eldar who the epitome of guerilla fighters and stealth (their active camo actually works and is constant) dark eldar who constantly warp in and out of existence to kidnap and plunder guard convoys Tau which is what the covenant wants to be when it grows up and Necrons whom are well near unkillable and have the strategic knowledge of beings around at the dawn of time. these are just a few of the guards enemies not to mention the swarmers such as tyranids or orks. in summary the guards enemies are far more strategically capable and have a much greater variety than what the UNSC faces as well as a far greater command and control aspect than the UNSC which is displayed time and again through out cannon to be almost void and the covenant have little to no strategy either as it has been shown in canon that they attack targets with heavy force just because it is there and will often lose vital numbers and assets to achieve little to no strategic victories.

for a source of every 40k faction http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

for examples of the guard and its strategy see http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Guard

and for specifically cadian feats see http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cadia and http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cadian_Shock_Troopers

for UNSC combat info see http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/United_Nations_Space_Command

my next point is that not only are the cadians better equipt than the UNSC they are better trained. in previous links shown you can see examples of the guard training and how the vast majority are trained from childhood unlike unsc marines and much like spartans. they also contend with some of the firecest beings in any scifi universe, literally demons just to name one, while it is shown in halo canon that marines are killed more often by grunts than anything else in the covenant. the guard is more veristile than the UNSC in the fact that it fields actual mechanised armys rather than simple infantry groups occasionally backed up by daddys jeap or poor excuse for a tank. the only real acceptable fighter in the UNSC is the spartan but well get to that. the ODST are talented but again they face nothing even remotely similar to the enemies the guard faces daily and none of their eqiupment match the guards so it would come down to who is the better fighter, which a cadian is superior.

the spartans are the real challenge. they are very skilled and very well trained however there are very few of them, they have horrid weapons, and ittle to no support considering the guard will masacre all their other units. unlike halo where vehicles can be controlled by a singal man the guard actually require a crew so they will not be hijacked and they can not be punched to death like most halo vehicles. also the only reason a spartan can use covenant weapons is that they were trained to be able to as according to canon, the UNSC have never seen the guard and will know nothing of their weapons and vehicles.

finally the titan legions, yes they count since titans are attached to the guard, an emperor class titan can level a continent nothing more needed to say there but here is a link http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Emperor_Class_Titan

here is a list of guard arms

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_guard_weapons

a list of guard vehicles

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Guard_vehicles

and my final point is that this battle has been debated time and again and guard always comes out ontop

  1. SPARTAN-II's in 40k

  2. Just to let you guy know all I know about 40k comes from Vs, So tell me if I got anything wrong. The Master Chief and Cortana have some thing the...

UNSC(Halo Wars) versus The Imperial Guard(Dawn of War: Soulstorm)

just to list a few

#27 Posted by Alice_Summers (1211 posts) - - Show Bio

@OneVision_OnePurpose:Well a good deal of their vehicles suck just like you said but here are some exceptions

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/AC-220_Gunship

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/AV-22_Sparrowhawk

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/M850_Grizzly_Main_Battle_Tank

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL_Mark_I_Prototype_Armor_Defense_System

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL_Mark_IX_Armor_Defense_System

#28 Posted by JPV02 (14 posts) - - Show Bio

okay the higher end armor makes some parts of the battle closer but still isnt enough to pull it through.

the only ways i can see the UNSC winning is

A. the pull something that can trump titans

B. can present something that can trump the advanced c.a.c of the cadians

C. overwhelm the cadians by displaying numbers of unsc troops

D. effectively show how their armor actually beast mass amounts of cadian armor

E. get past psykers mind rapeing everyone

#29 Posted by Strider92 (16156 posts) - - Show Bio

Imperial Guard have this quite easily imo. Vastly superior numbers, much more powerful firepower, psykers (telepath's) and most likely superior tech.

And if that wasn't enough the IG have access to god damn Titans. All they need is to fire them up and thats it.......game over: