Firestorm VS Hulk

Hulk thunderclaps him into unconsciousness.

Firestorm and it's not even close.

I've honestly yet to see WHY Firestorm would win this...

Transmutation? NOONE has better transmutation resistance feats than Hulk tbh.

Intangibility? Ok, how does this win anything for anyone on its own?

One shotted Black Adam? From what i understand that is a really high end feat on his part.

Energy attacks? Please, Hulk's taken energy blasts that were tearing a planet the size of Mars apart.

Cold/heat? AHA...ahahahahaha....no

BFR? Ah, yes. This would be the road to victory perhaps.

@thenewbluebeetle007: as far as thunderclap go, they are more powerful than the strongest hurricanes, compared to nukes, etc.

And you realize there is no such thing as base hulk right? A freshly transformed hulk has preformed feats in the quadrillion and quintillion tons, and it all depends on the level of anger he is when he transforms.

We can start with tanking Emma Frost's half Phoenix force and borderline no selling it. Starbrand anyone?

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Thunderclaps are pretty badass, i guess i could post a few... Not going to post the ones where he breaks Umar's shields, which is a VERY high end feat, because he was Worldbreaker at the time. I can find plenty more, these just happen to be the most fun ones i found without looking too hard.

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@atheistknowledge@thedailybagel@ghostravage

@thenewbluebeetle007: NimaMindTricks?? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm sounds familiar...

@battle123axe:

one shotted Black Adam impressive, although seems hard to beleive if he is depicted as fighting superman level characters

Well... it happened. Not sure what's so hard to believe about it- Firestorm's a high herald level character, and the most experienced iterations of him always have been

still, one shotting him? not so much herald level

He one shotted Kalibak, too... make of it what you will; fact remains that it happened.

tanked the blasts of an entire advanced space armada hulk has tanked planet busting blasts

Black Adam's tanked blasts from planet busters too

but has firestorm?

Not really relevant here- Hulk can't hit Firestorm.

was fairly even in a fistfight against Kalibak (a new god with Superman-level physicals)hulk is usually depicted to be stronger than thor, so moot point

ok

tagged Kid Flash (Bart) hulk has tagged quickilver and other supersonic speedsters, but feats for kid flash?

Kid Flash is much, much faster than Quiksilver. The former is approaching the speed of light, the latter's hypersonic. any other feats than just that?

I mean, he reacted to Dr. Light's blast (which is literally the speed of light and made of light), flew to the sun in seconds while light takes a few minutes to get from Earth to the sun, etc.

Diversity

Trapped Killer Frost in an absolute zero field (Hulk has no resistance to absolute zero)hulk has resisted absolute 0 in indestructible hulk

Uh... I hope you're not talking about this:

Where Hulk literally had a suit emitting thermal energy that partially cancelled out the absolute zero field.

Not really resisting absolute zero, at all. actually, i am, to equal out absolute zero, the suit has to have gone to a temperature nearly infinitely more that temperatures at the core of the sun, so unless youre stating that hulk has resisted such temperatures, youre point is moot, plus the fact that the suit fails seeing as how the art makes a direct comparison to hulk coming in and out of the falls (in is yellow, indicating radiant energy, out is green, indicating the hulk's blurry ouline, no yellow there)

That's actually not how absolute zero works... at all...

Absolute zero is an incredibly delicate stasis of atoms. Essentially what it means is that there is literally 0 movement in that field. In order to take out an absolute zero, all you have to do is introduce a little bit of movement into the field, and that would mean that it's not absolute zero anymore.

The proof lies in the scan itself: Hulk wasn't lumbering through the absolute zero field himself, but the suit was going in and out of the field for him- it wasn't Hulk doing any motion on his own, and there was no indication that he at all had a factor in moving through the field.

Hulk can surviveabsolute zero, but he can't movein it. It's a viable method of incapacitation.

can BFR people into the Firestorm Matrix, a separate dimension hulk has resisted being bfr to the negative zone

???? How do you resist BFR?

he's the hulk, dont as me, and zeta radiation is still bfr, which he can resist

I'm sorry, but that really just doesn't make sense. Could you show me some scans?? There's probably more to the instance than you're thinking of.

Regardless, Firestorm can also use zeta radiation to teleport Hulk light years away.

redirected Darkseid's Omega Beams back at him wow, but not really appliccapbe aginst hulk

that's fair

intangibility hulk has grabbed vision(not too sure) before

Scans? I don't remember Hulk ever grabbing Vision while Vision was intangible.turns out i was wrong appologies/

no worries

teleportation (depending on which version of FS this is) not really useful if he isnt hurting him/ hurting him but he instantly heals

and of course, he can transmute stuff. hulk has also resisted a gun that rewrites molecules, so moot point.

And Firestorm can override transmutation resistance. not sure how you do that, unless firestorm is stronger at transmutation than silver surfer, not happening.

I mean, I'm not sure how you're resistant to BFR, but comics are comics. When has Hulk ever resisted Surfer's transmutation, anyway?? I'm fairly certain that that never occurred.

The way that people normally resist transmutation is having molecules and atoms have such strong bonds between each other that they're near impossible to move around. That's why extremely durable beings (like Superman, and the Hulk) are resistant.

However, when you have an extremely powerful matter manipulator, they can bypass those bonds and manipulate it regardless.

Hulk doesn't really stand a chance here. He's got no way to hit Firestorm given intangibility and teleportation, while Firestorm could freeze or BFR him. points made above

Regardless, the fact remains that there's no way for Hulk to feasibly tag Firestorm given intangibility and teleportation. At best it's a stalemate. stalemate then, i agree

Fire Storm

Couldn't Firestorm use "anti-gamma radiation" and force a change to Banner from the Hulk?

@battle123axe:

one shotted Black Adam impressive, although seems hard to beleive if he is depicted as fighting superman level characters

Well... it happened. Not sure what's so hard to believe about it- Firestorm's a high herald level character, and the most experienced iterations of him always have been

still, one shotting him? not so much herald level

He one shotted Kalibak, too... make of it what you will; fact remains that it happened. anything else, and feats for kalibak?

Kalibak has tanked blasts from all sorts of New Gods (Orion, Lightray etc.) and has tanked Superman's punches and heat vision iirc. He's easily planetary level durability given that he is by statements and feats near-Superman level in durability.

tanked the blasts of an entire advanced space armada hulk has tanked planet busting blasts

Black Adam's tanked blasts from planet busters too

but has firestorm?

Not really relevant here- Hulk can't hit Firestorm. and firestorm cant do anything that he cannot regen from

meh

was fairly even in a fistfight against Kalibak (a new god with Superman-level physicals)hulk is usually depicted to be stronger than thor, so moot point

ok

tagged Kid Flash (Bart) hulk has tagged quickilver and other supersonic speedsters, but feats for kid flash?

Kid Flash is much, much faster than Quiksilver. The former is approaching the speed of light, the latter's hypersonic. any other feats than just that?

I mean, he reacted to Dr. Light's blast (which is literally the speed of light and made of light), flew to the sun in seconds while light takes a few minutes to get from Earth to the sun, etc. 1. hulk has reacted and almost caught silver surfer at ftl speeds, and the second one is more travel speed.

That's in no way a true reflection of Hulk's reaction speeds and you know it. Hulk's been tagged by Spider-Man, Captain America, Wolverine, and various other street level characters. It's blatantly false to say that he's anywhere close to the speed of light in any speed.

Diversity

Trapped Killer Frost in an absolute zero field (Hulk has no resistance to absolute zero)hulk has resisted absolute 0 in indestructible hulk

Uh... I hope you're not talking about this:

Where Hulk literally had a suit emitting thermal energy that partially cancelled out the absolute zero field.

Not really resisting absolute zero, at all. actually, i am, to equal out absolute zero, the suit has to have gone to a temperature nearly infinitely more that temperatures at the core of the sun, so unless youre stating that hulk has resisted such temperatures, youre point is moot, plus the fact that the suit fails seeing as how the art makes a direct comparison to hulk coming in and out of the falls (in is yellow, indicating radiant energy, out is green, indicating the hulk's blurry ouline, no yellow there)

That's actually not how absolute zero works... at all...

Absolute zero is an incredibly delicate stasis of atoms. Essentially what it means is that there is literally 0 movement in that field. In order to take out an absolute zero, all you have to do is introduce a little bit of movement into the field, and that would mean that it's not absolute zero anymore.

The proof lies in the scan itself: Hulk wasn't lumbering through the absolute zero field himself, but the suit was going in and out of the field for him- it wasn't Hulk doing any motion on his own, and there was no indication that he at all had a factor in moving through the field.

Hulk can surviveabsolute zero, but he can't movein it. It's a viable method of incapacitation.but there is also a scan where hulk moves in "the coldest temperatures" according to leader, so moot point

Yeah, a lot of users have talked about that scan, but they can never actually provide it...

Furthermore, "the coldest temperatures" doesn't necessary equal absolute zero... for example, Killer Frost and Mr. Freeze are frequently described with that terminology and yet they're both nowhere close to that level.

That "scan" doesn't really apply here either.

can BFR people into the Firestorm Matrix, a separate dimension hulk has resisted being bfr to the negative zone

???? How do you resist BFR?

he's the hulk, dont as me, and zeta radiation is still bfr, which he can resist

I'm sorry, but that really just doesn't make sense. Could you show me some scans?? There's probably more to the instance than you're thinking of. there was a glass or something plane tamered with negative zone particles supposed to send him straight there, and it didnt.

1. That scan is way too small for me to actually see
2. Just because one piece of tech failed doesn't mean that zeta radiation (which, by nature, teleports people away) is going to fail.
3. There's likely heavy context surrounding that instance.

Regardless, Firestorm can

also use zeta radiation to teleport Hulk light years away.

redirected Darkseid's Omega Beams back at him wow, but not really appliccapbe aginst hulk

that's fair

intangibility hulk has grabbed vision(not too sure) before

Scans? I don't remember Hulk ever grabbing Vision while Vision was intangible.turns out i was wrong appologies/

no worries

teleportation (depending on which version of FS this is) not really useful if he isnt hurting him/ hurting him but he instantly heals

and of course, he can transmute stuff. hulk has also resisted a gun that rewrites molecules, so moot point.

And Firestorm can override transmutation resistance. not sure how you do that, unless firestorm is stronger at transmutation than silver surfer, not happening.

I mean, I'm not sure how you're resistant to BFR, but comics are comics. When has Hulk ever resisted Surfer's transmutation, anyway?? I'm fairly certain that that never occurred. the beams were stated to be on a "thor ordinance level" so take it how you will.

"Thor ordinance level" doesn't mean the beam is actually transmutation. It just means that they're powerful enough to take down Thor. That's a durability feat, not a transmutation resistance feat.

The way that people normally resist transmutation is having molecules and atoms have such strong bonds between each other that they're near impossible to move around. That's why extremely durable beings (like Superman, and the Hulk) are resistant.

However, when you have an extremely powerful matter manipulator, they can bypass those bonds and manipulate it regardless. points counted above, hulk also has a extremely potent healing factor, so his atoms (bonds) are even stronger

He can be resistant all he wants; Firestorm's transmuted things that have resistance (Anti-Monitor's armor, negative matter, etc.)

@thenewbluebeetle007: Superman has been tagged consistently by street levellers and people nowhere near his speed levels. Does that negate his speed feats? If not, why should that apply to Hulk?

@battle123axe: I really don't feel like arguing anymore; we're just going in circles. I'll agree to disagree

i enjoyed it, but i understand.

So far i've seen nothing to suggest that Firestorm is able to win by any means other than BFR.

Bump. Firestorm has fought against Black Adam, Kalibak, and even Superman (won all of them), fully drained radiation-powered humans like Pion Man and had reacted to flashes and Dr. Lights attacks. He does more than just changes molecules and throw fire, he can literally speed up or slow down atoms themselves. None of hulks attacks would phase FS due to intangibility. FS also has the flight/speed advantage. FS wins

Hulk kills him.

Firestorm drains

How? Hard to kill someone that you can’t lay a hand on

@firestarlord73194: Eat him?

Sound reasoning.

Firestorm stomps

@firestarlord73194: Of course it does.

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Even the sentience of the universe which is an energy being can’t do shit against Hulk.

@chad_duby: that’s Immortal Hulk.... their are many lesser beings who have drained standard Hulk completely. Havok, a low level mutant has done it before.

@firestarlord73194: Did the Op say which Hulk? Immortal Hulk is just Hulk because the green door has been opened since the birth of Hulk, meaning it makes no difference. So? He couldn’t now. Metatron didn‘t so Hulk won’t be drained.

@firestarlord73194: Havok used Professor Hulks own gamma against him, that's hardly "draining", it's also a very isolated incident and Hulk has insane feats of resisting draining

Hulk has resisted draining from LoebForce Rulk

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and Rulk was particularly infamous for draining beings like Odin Force Thor, Watcher, Surfer, etc... which Rulk confirms with his own words here

Hulk has also resisted being drained by Darwin

Darwin being the same guy that drained Hela of her powers

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Hulk has recently resisted getting drained by Rogue as well

Rogue is notorious for draining pretty much every Marvel hero at least once at some point but most notably she has literally drained Zarathos from Ghost Rider himself

On top of that Hulk has resisted being drained by the Elder Spikes for 7 straight hours

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for reference the Spikes drain entire planets of life and even feed on dying stars

Another instance is a Kree space ship that was capable of draining Surfer, Strange and Namor of their powers

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fails to drain the Hulk who resists and breaks the whole spacecraft from the backlash

He has even shown the ability to drain gamma energy himself, especially from those who steal it from him like Absorbing Man whose insanely impressive draining was further amped by Red Hulks draining capabilities.

There are quite a few more instances of Hulk resisting draining or intentionally overloading the person that drains him, but these are the more impressive ones that come to mind.

Now i don't know which versions of Hulk we are using here since the OP doesn't say anything or even show pictures, but i don't think Firestorm is gonna win this by trying to drain the Hulk, it's certainly not going to be that simple an easy given Hulks resistance to gamma draining in modern times in particularly.

Firestorm!

Immortal Hulk is definitely different than standard Hulk. IH cracks Thor’s skull and solos an avengers team with Hyperion on it. Just because the “green door” retcon implies Hulk has always had this power source doesn’t in no way mean he operates at the same levels now as he has in times past. This thread was made years ago before IH or TOBA was even a thing, so I’m sure the OP intended standard Hulk, any other version would have been specified

Exactly how and why does Firestorm win?

Firestorm

@samjackson: because he can transmutate Hulk easily lol, he's not a human torch

@cruelrain: What feats of transmutation does he have? Hulk has resisted transmutation from High-Evolutionary before as well as resisted sub-atomic transmutation on Thor level ordinance, also resisted reality warping on planetary scale and molecular disintegrator capable of reshaping primary adamantium. I am guessing Firestorm has transmuated Superman level opponents before and similar feats? And not just making pillows out of thin air, turning guns to salami, creating giant squirt guns, etc... because those really aren't gonna do anything here.

Firestorm should win eventually. He could, theoretically, bury Hulk under the weight of the entire planet and then make the planet even heavier. It'd just be him turning the surface into gas and then a solid again later.

Firestorm is also intangible. He can fly. He is basically untouchable in this battle while Hulk can be buried in a new gas giant eventually.

It wouldn't be a fun or interesting fight. It'd just be won eventually because Hulk couldn't compete. If the fight was fought at some fair level then most versions of Hulk would win very easily.

@wabubub: When has Firestorm burried anyone under a planet? And why would that stop someone that wasn't crushed by the weight of a star?

FireStorm has the means to win, but honestly Hulk would beat the sh*t out of him. All he could do at best is delay the inevitable.

I know he’s not Human Torch but I have never seen him transmute anyone of Hulk’s caliber. I could be wrong so if you have any scans or feats to suggest he can I’ll concede.

Firestorm

@firestarlord73194: Nothing indicates that Immortal Hulk is any different from normal Hulk apart from him being mentioned to have been more powerful. Hulk getting more powerful over the year is not going to disprove that the Immortal Hulk is still Hulk and is standard Hulk. What he has done should also be applied.

So much more powerful version of Silver Surfer and Sentry vs Hulk. Nice match.

That’s literally my point. IH is a more powerful incarnation he clearly wasn’t the version intended by the OP. Also IH only comes out at night and is the only version that’s been THIS interested in by TOBA. Not the same as standard Hulk. We can try to twist it as much as we can to make the Hulk stronger than the OP intended but IH clearly wasn’t the Hulk in mind when this battle was made

Hulk can’t beat up someone intangible so not sure how your scenario will happen

@firestarlord73194: To become more powerful overtime is the nature of Hulk. I have never seen that as the issue before until you pointed it out. Well, Ironman who is in the current timeline isn’t the same as the one shown in comics 3 years ago either because he obviously has gotten older. What matters if one character gets more feats and is shown to be more powerful than they previously had been? Well it isn’t specified under which environment the fight takes place. TOBA has always been this interested in Hulk because Hulk is his child. There is only one Hulk who becomes more powerful over time but there is still only one of it and Hulk is also TOBA himself.