Wow, no one responds to me for like 15 minutes, then I leave for a little while and the thread blows up with responses. I'm way too lazy to go back and respond to every post individually, but so much wrong crap was posted it hurt my head just to read it.
Lemme just mention a few things I saw that were so wrong or missed the point so much it would be funny if it wasn't so sad/painful. "Piccolo with a power of 210, the Earth is only 3.68 times bigger than the moon, Moori is nowhere near Guru, this is what non-canon means". The ones that wrote that garbage should be ashamed, and really need to learn how to fact check.
To put this thread back on topic, there's Alphamon and some other digimon, Salior Moon at full power and Haruhi can STOMP the f***ck out of Goku. The point of the thread is who can beat Goku not to gauge power levels based on speculation
Alphamon would not even scratch SSJ and above Goku. I like digimon as much as the next guy, and his attacks are instantaneous but he would not hurt Goku.
Dude on anime vice there's an Alphamon vs the DBZ universe battle and EVERYONE said that Alphamon would wreck the DB universe
@redbird3rdboywonder: @BossMan404: From what I've learned about him over there is that
" he's a universal class being, just a step below Omegamon X in power. He also possesses the AlphaInforce, which essentially allows him to manipulate time and put his opponents in a timeloop where even a single attack made by Alphamon is looped endlessly"
Powerlevels are not "fan decided" they are written in the manga as a mathematical system to determine power, and scouters are a way of measuring that.
Only up until Goku's battle with Frieza(when he first goes Super Saiyan), any power level after that is purely fan based. There are no official power levels given after that point.
All of my no. anyone in Saiyan Saga would solo these three. Dialga was having trouble with Girantina pulling him away. Palkia got injured and blown away by Darkrai. Arcues couldn't even react to electrical pokemon putting him down.
Piccolo early DBZ moonbusting solo's them three. They couldn't even tag Kid Goku.
The Sailor Moon at full power beating Goku was right, now you're just getting silly.
All of my no. anyone in Saiyan Saga would solo these three. Dialga was having trouble with Girantina pulling him away. Palkia got injured and blown away by Darkrai. Arcues couldn't even react to electrical pokemon putting him down.
Piccolo early DBZ moonbusting solo's them three. They couldn't even tag Kid Goku.
The Sailor Moon at full power beating Goku was right, now you're just getting silly.
yeah right Goku isn't surviving a space attack, time attack, or universal attack let alone a combination of the three.The reason I chose the three of them is because Palkia controls time and Dialga controls space are you really telling me that outside of plot they can be defeated? Also you and I both know that those instances you named were for plot reasons. Also I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying Salior Moon at full power couuldn't beat Goku or could because Salior Moon at full power is stronger than Salior Galaxia would who solo the entire DBZ universe without breaking a sweat.
All of my no. anyone in Saiyan Saga would solo these three. Dialga was having trouble with Girantina pulling him away. Palkia got injured and blown away by Darkrai. Arcues couldn't even react to electrical pokemon putting him down.
Piccolo early DBZ moonbusting solo's them three. They couldn't even tag Kid Goku.
The Sailor Moon at full power beating Goku was right, now you're just getting silly.
yeah right Goku isn't surviving a space attack, time attack, or universal attack let alone a combination of the three.The reason I chose the three of them is because Palkia controls time and Dialga controls space are you really telling me that outside of plot they can be defeated? Also you and I both know that those instances you named were for plot reasons. Also I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying Salior Moon at full power couuldn't beat Goku or could because Salior Moon at full power is stronger than Salior Galaxia would who solo the entire DBZ universe without breaking a sweat.
Palkia, Dialga, and Arcues have never shown anything even putting them past Master Roshi's power, Darkrai tanked a roar of time, and a spacial rend. Let alone they're terrible speed, reaction time and fighting ability.
Throughout the entire fight it was just fire, get hit, fire, get hit as they flew around.
Like I stated Pokemons big three is really cannon fodder for Saiyan Saga level characters.
@Death Certificate: DBZ has a system of measuring power levels that allows people to scale and go on implied power. The Ginyu Force was stated to have power levels higher than Saiyan Saga Vegeta and are therefore strong enough to bust planets, and their abilities increase drastic amounts even though they aren't totally elaborated on.
Feats aren't always relied on.
Expect for the fact that all powerlevels after the frieza saga is nothing but, fanboys pulling numbers out of their anus. I'm sorry all I'm hearing is a poor excuse to allow baseless statements to act as feats.Why DBZ fans can't expect that universe has nothing but planet/multi-planet busters. @PokemonDefender said:
@Death Certificate said:
@Death Certificate You can't call it a hyperbolic statement when characters that were hundreds of thousands, (possibly more) of times weaker were blowing up moons and planets with very little effort. And that's probably the only response you're going to get from me. I generally ignore people that don't take character statements and power scaling seriously when it comes to DBZ.
Why is it that whenever any other fictional universe, regardless of the manga or comic, we ask for feats and go by what is shown, yet DBZ is an expection.?
Because powerlevel is a fundamental rule in DBZ, and without it nothing makes sense.
Think about if it was only feats then Frieza>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ Vegito, Goku, Cell, Majin Buu. Because Frieza had better feats.
No that is ridiculous, powerlevels and statements define who is stronger in the DBZ universe.
Expect for the fact that:
Buu can survive a planet explosion without dying or near to death like frieza.
Not to mention that whole manga was suppose to end at Frieza, but certain fanboys kept asking for more.
Not my fault DBZ is inconsistent
Not necessarily true. Now I'm not agreeing with DBZ hyperbole, but it's possible that the earth still could have remained intact with Gohan blocking it. After all, remember when Pre-retcon Molecule Man tried to kill Pre-retcon Beyonder? He fired a blast that could have destroyed several billion dimensions and yet the living room they were in was fine.
Then following issue after had Molecule man repairing the multi-verse.
Strategy: BB uses his fruit abilty to start drawing Goku in. Father transmutes the arena around the other team members and raises them on a solid platform so they're now looking down on Goku as he's being drawn in. As he's being drawn in every other character then hits him with a barrage of attacks. Keep in mind BB's gravitational powers aren't escapable and draw in everything in the direction he aims it. (His allies are standing behind them so they aren't effected) Kizaru hits Goku with Yasakani No Magatama, Inuyasha uses Kaze No Kizu, and Akainu Dai Funka. The allies fire their attacks not at Goku, but a little behind him. Due to BB their attacks will also be drawn in. This way they'll be drawn in after Goku. If Goku gets some type of KI based attack off it'll of course be drawn straight to BB due to his powers and not BB's allies. Inuyasha simply sends a Mediou down to engulf the KI attack and prevent BB from having to tank the attack. The team keeps using this strategy as Goku's slowly being drawn in. Once he actually gets close enough to touch BB, BB then hits him with a solid Falcon, I mean quake punch. He proceeds to grab Goku's head and deliver another quake punch. This time letting Goku be blown back. He then immediately activates his gravitational powers and begins to draw Goku in again, restarting the process. This is repeated until Goku is dead.
1. Instant transmission. Above the platform :)
Even so, I doubt Blackbeard has the power to hold someone as strong as goku. He has only fought very weak guys, not db level characters.
I don't know too much about inayusha but none of these characters have planet destroying power, correct me if I am wrong.
There is no way something as pathetic as quake punch and light beams are going to hurt someone with durability like goku.. Even if he just stands, they are going to die of exhaustion@Invisible_Witch said:
Bleach
Kenpachi
Yoruichi
Mayuri
Urahara
1.Yoruichi & Kenpachi distract Goku while Urahara & Mayuri come up with some powerful sealing technique
2.Yoruichi,Kenpachi&Urahara distract Goku while Mayuri paralyzed him wiith his sword and Urahara finish him off with Benihime
3.Kenpachi removes his eye patch and kill everyone
Nah.. None of these guys have enough offense to harm someone who has withstood frieza's attacks....
All of my no. anyone in Saiyan Saga would solo these three. Dialga was having trouble with Girantina pulling him away. Palkia got injured and blown away by Darkrai. Arcues couldn't even react to electrical pokemon putting him down.
Piccolo early DBZ moonbusting solo's them three. They couldn't even tag Kid Goku.
The Sailor Moon at full power beating Goku was right, now you're just getting silly.
yeah right Goku isn't surviving a space attack, time attack, or universal attack let alone a combination of the three.The reason I chose the three of them is because Palkia controls time and Dialga controls space are you really telling me that outside of plot they can be defeated? Also you and I both know that those instances you named were for plot reasons. Also I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying Salior Moon at full power couuldn't beat Goku or could because Salior Moon at full power is stronger than Salior Galaxia would who solo the entire DBZ universe without breaking a sweat.
Palkia, Dialga, and Arcues have never shown anything even putting them past Master Roshi's power, Darkrai tanked a roar of time, and a spacial rend. Let alone they're terrible speed, reaction time and fighting ability.
Throughout the entire fight it was just fire, get hit, fire, get hit as they flew around.
Like I stated Pokemons big three is really cannon fodder for Saiyan Saga level characters.
Gallery
You do realize that when you control time and space that speed means absolutely nothing right? For example a person could be so slow that normal walking speed makes that person look like he's standing still when he's not, but that means nothing when you have control over time, being able to start and stop it at ease
@Invisible_Witch: Goku is way too fast for someone like mayuri. And he managed to fight omega shenron when blind. what is urhara compared to that? negligible..
@Death Certificate: Wut. It was stated by multiple characters that they were well above planet busting and Kid Buu was a galaxy buster. Talk about pulling crap out of your butt.
@Death Certificate: Wut. It was stated by multiple characters that they were well above planet busting and Kid Buu was a galaxy buster. Talk about pulling crap out of your butt.
Yet none of these so called galaxy busters, destoryed a solar system yet alone a galaxy. At most, we only ever saw planets getting destroyed from DB characters. Oh the Kid Buu thing was misquoted.
@Death Certificate: Wut. It was stated by multiple characters that they were well above planet busting and Kid Buu was a galaxy buster. Talk about pulling crap out of your butt.
Yet none of these so called galaxy busters, destoryed a solar system yet alone a galaxy. At most, we only ever saw planets getting destroyed from DB characters. Oh the Kid Buu thing was misquoted.
Cell says he can destroy a solar system. I assume he can destroy a solar system until proven otherwise. Also, please stop saying this over and over even though you're proven wrong, Kid Buu is a galaxy buster. He's continually referenced as a universal threat.
@Death Certificate: Wut. It was stated by multiple characters that they were well above planet busting and Kid Buu was a galaxy buster. Talk about pulling crap out of your butt.
Yet none of these so called galaxy busters, destoryed a solar system yet alone a galaxy. At most, we only ever saw planets getting destroyed from DB characters. Oh the Kid Buu thing was misquoted.
Uh, it actually shows Kid Buu destroy a galaxy in one of Supreme Kai's flashbacks in episode 219. It shows a zoomed out view of a galaxy, and it just kind of turns red fragments and disappears.
@Invisible_Witch: Goku is way too fast for someone like mayuri. And he managed to fight omega shenron when blind. what is urhara compared to that? negligible..
Mayuri don't have to see Goku,He can sense his CHI which is spirit pressure in Bleach. I just read the OP in those 15 mins of prep Urhana can make those same bands he used on Azien to stop him from using CHI
Cell says he can destroy a solar system. I assume he can destroy a solar system until proven otherwise. Also, please stop saying this over and over even though you're proven wrong, Kid Buu is a galaxy buster. He's continually referenced as a universal threat.
If you seriously think that a solar system blast can be contained on a planet, then you must have poor view of how big a solar system is. Sure you can assume, but it doesn't stop anyone pointing out the big flaw. Ah the misquoted scans that get taken context, jebus khirst even animevice disproved those scans be nothing.
It's a fictional universe and many things that happen in DBZ are retarded (condensing their energy), doesn't mean they didn't happen. Bro, you can say "nuh-uh" all you want. The objective evidence is on my side.
It's a fictional universe and many things that happen in DBZ are retarded (condensing their energy), doesn't mean they didn't happen. Bro, you can say "nuh-uh" all you want. The objective evidence is on my side.
@Israphael: No really I thought we arguing about politics and economics. Well can you contain a river in a ballon, no you can't. It's pretty much the same thing with containing a whole solar system on small planet like. Fact still remains that Earth was barely damaged and no other planet was affected. Hell these can't even blow up a sun.
Expect for the fact that Kid Buu destoryed many planets in the manga while anime stated that he blew up a galaxy, meaning the anime contradiction of the original source.
Your analogy is flawed. Energy in DBZ can be condensed to very small sizes as shown by Frieza and then expanded when it hits its mark. Regardless, Vegeta's earth busting galick gun hardly did damage to the earth because it was blocked by Goku's kamehameha. As I've said, it's a fiction.
Okay, so by saying he can destroy galaxies it contradicts that he can destroy planets? If he destroys galaxies he destroys planets. It didn't really contradict anything. Contradictions doesn't mean it's not canon. Canon is decided by the creator of the universe (Akira Toriyama) and unless he comes out and says "Yeah, I gave them some creative control over my universe, but I don't consider any of it to be relevant. Disregard all of it. Thanks. "
@Israphael: Buu isn't a Galaxy buster if he's a universal threat. Within a galaxy there exist many universes thus a contradiction
Rofl what sort of concept is that? You are joking, right?
Buu was classified as a universal threat by supreme kai. He was shown to have destroyed several galaxies in the anime as someone above said. Also, he has already ripped up dimension by screaming. And was about to destroy the universe when vegito stopped him..
@Israphael: Buu isn't a Galaxy buster if he's a universal threat. Within a galaxy there exist many universes thus a contradiction
Rofl what sort of concept is that? You are joking, right?
Buu was classified as a universal threat by supreme kai. He was shown to have destroyed several galaxies in the anime as someone above said. Also, he has already ripped up dimension by screaming. And was about to destroy the universe when vegito stopped him..
@Israphael: I said that backwards my mistake you were right
@Israphael: Buu isn't a Galaxy buster if he's a universal threat. Within a galaxy there exist many universes thus a contradiction
Rofl what sort of concept is that? You are joking, right?
Buu was classified as a universal threat by supreme kai. He was shown to have destroyed several galaxies in the anime as someone above said. Also, he has already ripped up dimension by screaming. And was about to destroy the universe when vegito stopped him..
Supreme Kai is an idiot and yes in the anime it shows him destroying several galaxies but in the manga it says otherwise and manga>anime in terms of official source. Remember the manga made it seems as though Kid Buu was stronger than Super Buu, whereas the manga says otherwise. It was Super Buu who tore a hole in a dimension by screaming not Kid Buu and Super Buu>>Kid Buu, and the Buu who was about to destroy the universe wasn't Buuhan the strongest Buu of them all
@Israphael: Buu isn't a Galaxy buster if he's a universal threat. Within a galaxy there exist many universes thus a contradiction
Rofl what sort of concept is that? You are joking, right?
Buu was classified as a universal threat by supreme kai. He was shown to have destroyed several galaxies in the anime as someone above said. Also, he has already ripped up dimension by screaming. And was about to destroy the universe when vegito stopped him..
Supreme Kai is an idiot and yes in the anime it shows him destroying several galaxies but in the manga it says otherwise and manga>anime in terms of official source. Remember the manga made it seems as though Kid Buu was stronger than Super Buu, whereas the manga says otherwise. It was Super Buu who tore a hole in a dimension by screaming not Kid Buu and Super Buu>>Kid Buu, and the Buu who was about to destroy the universe wasn't Buuhan the strongest Buu of them all
Now, why would you call supreme kai an idiot? He may be but he doesn't lie. I think manga also has shown that. I am sure anime has. Manga has never stated that buu can't destroy a galaxy. Anime says he has. So a said statement>what reader thinks. It was super buu who tore a hole through the dimension, true. But when he gave up all his good, he reverted back to his original pure evil form, supposedly the strongest. But it's too much debate going on over that. So, even if any one of them is stronger, they still are universe-level threat.
@Israphael: Buu isn't a Galaxy buster if he's a universal threat. Within a galaxy there exist many universes thus a contradiction
Rofl what sort of concept is that? You are joking, right?
Buu was classified as a universal threat by supreme kai. He was shown to have destroyed several galaxies in the anime as someone above said. Also, he has already ripped up dimension by screaming. And was about to destroy the universe when vegito stopped him..
Supreme Kai is an idiot and yes in the anime it shows him destroying several galaxies but in the manga it says otherwise and manga>anime in terms of official source. Remember the manga made it seems as though Kid Buu was stronger than Super Buu, whereas the manga says otherwise. It was Super Buu who tore a hole in a dimension by screaming not Kid Buu and Super Buu>>Kid Buu, and the Buu who was about to destroy the universe wasn't Buuhan the strongest Buu of them all
Now, why would you call supreme kai an idiot? He may be but he doesn't lie. I think manga also has shown that. I am sure anime has. Manga has never stated that buu can't destroy a galaxy. Anime says he has. So a said statement>what reader thinks. It was super buu who tore a hole through the dimension, true. But when he gave up all his good, he reverted back to his original pure evil form, supposedly the strongest. But it's too much debate going on over that. So, even if any one of them is stronger, they still are universe-level threat.
I called Supreme Kai an idiot because he is and if the manga says he has never destroyed a galaxy, then it's true because in the end the manga is and will always be more official than the anime. Again the anime made it seems as though Kid Buu was stronger but the manga makes it exactly clear that Super Buu is stronger. Anyway this is off topic, do you have a team to beat Goku?
@redbird3rdboywonder: Anime is just as official as the manga. (Toriyama gave a license so unless he states otherwise it is) Just because it adds details does not make it contradictory. Also, I don't think the anime made kid buu out to be stronger than Super Buu or Buuhan. Goku could beat Kid Buu in SS3, but he couldn't beat Buuhan in SS3. If anything it implied he was more dangerous because he was much more chaotic.
@redbird3rdboywonder: Manga is more official. But that doesn't make anime unofficial. He did destroy the galaxies. Anime feats are considered canon. And, where has manga made clear that super buu> kid buu? give a scan if convenient..
@redbird3rdboywonder: Manga is more official. But that doesn't make anime unofficial. He did destroy the galaxies. Anime feats are considered canon. And, where has manga made clear that super buu> kid buu? give a scan if convenient..
If I could find Manga No. 25 in my house I would take a picture and show it to you.
Kid Buu is more evil and dangerous, but Super Buu is more powerful
@redbird3rdboywonder: Manga is more official. But that doesn't make anime unofficial. He did destroy the galaxies. Anime feats are considered canon. And, where has manga made clear that super buu> kid buu? give a scan if convenient..
If I could find Manga No. 25 in my house I would take a picture and show it to you.
Kid Buu is more evil and dangerous, but Super Buu is more powerful
Personally, I'm kind of against the whole mentality of, "if you don't post a scan you must be wrong" especially when it's stuff that should be common knowledge to anyone that's even casually watched the series or read the manga and payed even a little bit of attention.
If people need to see scans to verify every little thing instead of going out and looking at the material themselves I think they should step out of arguments that they don't have the knowledge to properly understand. And no, I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, it just seems to be a mentality that many people on this site have to one degree or another. It particularly frustrates me when someone links a scan that does absolutely nothing to back up their point, or does far less to back up a point than previous things that have been said in a thread. And then everyone goes, "zomg, he posted a scan so he must be right!".
@redbird3rdboywonder: Manga is more official. But that doesn't make anime unofficial. He did destroy the galaxies. Anime feats are considered canon. And, where has manga made clear that super buu> kid buu? give a scan if convenient..
If I could find Manga No. 25 in my house I would take a picture and show it to you.
Kid Buu is more evil and dangerous, but Super Buu is more powerful
Personally, I'm kind of against the whole mentality of, "if you don't post a scan you must be wrong" especially when it's stuff that should be common knowledge to anyone that's even casually watched the series or read the manga and payed even a little bit of attention.
If people need to see scans to verify every little thing instead of going out and looking at the material themselves I think they should step out of arguments that they don't have the knowledge to properly understand. And no, I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, it just seems to be a mentality that many people on this site have to one degree or another. It particularly frustrates me when someone links a scan that does absolutely nothing to back up their point, or does far less to back up a point than previous things that have been said in a thread. And then everyone goes, "zomg, he posted a scan so he must be right!".
/endrant
I didn't say that he is wrong as he didn't post the scan. I asked him to give scan if possible, as it can be very helpful in other threads. Don't you think it could immediately end the extremely annoying fight of fanboys of version of buu?
I agree with you. It is quite frustrating. sigh... can't be helped though..
@redbird3rdboywonder: Manga is more official. But that doesn't make anime unofficial. He did destroy the galaxies. Anime feats are considered canon. And, where has manga made clear that super buu> kid buu? give a scan if convenient..
If I could find Manga No. 25 in my house I would take a picture and show it to you.
Kid Buu is more evil and dangerous, but Super Buu is more powerful
Personally, I'm kind of against the whole mentality of, "if you don't post a scan you must be wrong" especially when it's stuff that should be common knowledge to anyone that's even casually watched the series or read the manga and payed even a little bit of attention.
If people need to see scans to verify every little thing instead of going out and looking at the material themselves I think they should step out of arguments that they don't have the knowledge to properly understand. And no, I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, it just seems to be a mentality that many people on this site have to one degree or another. It particularly frustrates me when someone links a scan that does absolutely nothing to back up their point, or does far less to back up a point than previous things that have been said in a thread. And then everyone goes, "zomg, he posted a scan so he must be right!".
/endrant
I didn't say that he is wrong as he didn't post the scan. I asked him to give scan if possible, as it can be very helpful in other threads. Don't you think it could immediately end the extremely annoying fight of fanboys of version of buu?
I agree with you. It is quite frustrating. sigh... can't be helped though..
Like I said, I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone in particular. All this talk of scans just reminded me to say that. And no, I don't think posting a scan is necessary.
Fact is, both the anime and the manga show Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu because in both versions Vegito feels it necessary to go Super Saiyan against him. And a giant number squared is a hell of a lot more than a giant number x400. Or in other words, base form Vegito is definitely more powerful than SS3 Goku, and if he felt he needed to go SS1 against Super Buu, that's all the proof anyone should need that Super Buu > Kid Buu, in both the anime and manga.
Like I said, I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone in particular. All this talk of scans just reminded me to say that. And no, I don't think posting a scan is necessary.
Fact is, both the anime and the manga show Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu because in both versions Vegito feels it necessary to go Super Saiyan against him. And a giant number squared is a hell of a lot more than a giant number x400. Or in other words, base form Vegito is definitely more powerful than SS3 Goku, and if he felt he needed to go SS1 against Super Buu, that's all the proof anyone should need that Super Buu > Kid Buu, in both the anime and manga.
Like I said, I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone in particular. All this talk of scans just reminded me to say that. And no, I don't think posting a scan is necessary.
Fact is, both the anime and the manga show Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu because in both versions Vegito feels it necessary to go Super Saiyan against him. And a giant number squared is a hell of a lot more than a giant number x400. Or in other words, base form Vegito is definitely more powerful than SS3 Goku, and if he felt he needed to go SS1 against Super Buu, that's all the proof anyone should need that Super Buu > Kid Buu, in both the anime and manga.
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