The fight takes place on Tattooine near a small village.
No prep time. In character.
Win by Death. Start 10 ft. apart. Standard gear.
TPM Maul wins in a somewhat good fight. His form is just better for a match-up like this, and Fightsaber claimed that Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon's usage of Form IV merely delayed Maul's Form VII. Collectively, they exceed Quinlan in fighting skill, especially when their synergy with one another is considered, so Maul would beat Quinlan, not comfortably, but not with much difficulty either.
@shootingnova: You are going by picture versions?
Maul~Vader IMO, Vader>Dooku (due to form) and Dooku easily stomps Vos. This is barely even a fight, Maul kills him quickly. Maul could probably take Vos and Tholme at the same time TBH.
@belphegor: TCW Maul wins handily, so I decided to use TPM Maul.
Maul could probably take Vos and Tholme at the same time TBH.
Probably, but it'd be a hard fight.
@lamlam: I doubt it is a mismatch, and certainly not spite unless it was intentional.
On a side note, this would be a half-good fight as I described above comparing skill only, but with Form VII being an almost direct edge over Form IV, and Quinlan being inexperienced with Maul's doublesaber, I'd give the win to Maul every time.
@i_like_swords: That's clearly what Fightsaber implies. Both forms have a tremendous focus on aggression, and in that area, Juyo usually exceeds Ataru (especially because most Ataru practitioners, like Quinlan and Qui-Gon, just aren't as aggressive as Maul). The Ataru user would be forced onto the defensive (ie. Maul vs Qui-Gon on Tatooine) and Ataru actually has the weakest defense of the seven forms, so Juyo has an edge in that sense. Maul being faster, stronger and more skilful than Quinlan would also help in this regard.
Of course, Yoda vs Palpatine is an example of otherwise, which is why I said "almost". Yoda is equally skilful and aggressive comparative to Palpatine, who uses not only Form VII, but seemingly mixes a myriad of other forms, although I believe that Palpatine's primary form is Form VII.
@i_like_swords: That's clearly what Fightsaber implies. Both forms have a tremendous focus on aggression, and in that area, Juyo usually exceeds Ataru (especially because most Ataru practitioners, like Quinlan and Qui-Gon, just aren't as aggressive as Maul). The Ataru user would be forced onto the defensive (ie. Maul vs Qui-Gon on Tatooine) and Ataru actually has the weakest defense of the seven forms, so Juyo has an edge in that sense.
Makes sense actually. Thanks for the info.
Of course, Yoda vs Palpatine is an example of otherwise, which is why I said "almost". Yoda is equally skilful and aggressive comparative to Palpatine, who uses not only Form VII, but seemingly mixes a myriad of other forms, although I believe that Palpatine's primary form is Form VII.
I don't really know what Form Palpatine uses, was there ever a source that told us what his primary was or even hinted/implied towards it? To me it seems like he's good enough to just use whatever he feels would be best without restriction of Form. Not even switching between Forms, just using all seven as one pool to draw from, if that makes sense.
@i_like_swords: Just to be clear, that is just my interpretation of the fight with Qui-Gon and how I view the form matchups. That's not what Fightsaber said, however, it did claim that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's Form IV were merely delaying tactics against Maul's Form VII, which is why I said it's what the source implied.
I don't really know what Form Palpatine uses, was there ever a source that told us what his primary was or even hinted/implied towards it? To me it seems like he's good enough to just use whatever he feels would be best without restriction of Form. Not even switching between Forms, just using all seven as one pool to draw from, if that makes sense.
I was asked this question on my TPM Palpatine respect thread, and I'll just copy the response here:
No. There's never even been a source for Palpatine's form at any time, to my knowledge. But it resembles Juyo, though the Clone Wars Episode Guide claims that Palpatine mastered every single lightsaber form.
That being said, I have discussed this with Silver and we both agree that it resembles Juyo the most. It probably contains elements of other forms, but some of the most notable traits of Palpatine's fighting style is sheer aggression and ferocity, considerable employment of running speed (except in places of restricted space, such as the Chancellor's podium in which he fought Yoda), and sustained viciousness and brutality designed to wear down opponents.
Obviously there are times when Palpatine holds back, and in those cases his form appears less like Juyo, but we can infer that it is such based on what we have seen of him fighting without restraining himself. He also mastered every single lightsaber form, and Juyo's primary pre-requisite is to have mastered multiple lightsaber forms. Of course, that hardly means it has to be Juyo, but it does lend a bit of support to that idea.
The other method of discovering his form is just trial and error. Shii-Cho is obviously not Palpatine's form - Palpatine is far too fast, too vicious, too precise, too everything for Shii-Cho. That being said, it can't be Makashi either. Makashi's primary values are precision and elegance, and whilst Palpatine does have those elements in his swordsmanship, that only comes due to his raw skill, and the sheer ferocity and brutality of the form rules out Makashi. Obviously it can't be Soresu either, because whilst Palpatine has displayed defensive fighting traits at times, in general his form is far too aggressive and brutal for it to even remotely resemble Soresu.
Ataru is probably the closest possibility aside from Juyo. Palpatine enjoys the application of acrobatics at times, but running speed moreso, so it's unlikely to be Ataru. Djem So is not a possibility because the form is rather immobile and focuses just on sheer strength more than anything else. Sidious's form matches Djem So closely, except for the lack of mobility in contrast to Sidious's constant employment of running.
Niman is a selective mixture of the previous forms, though there are sources which state it is only really mastered through calm and moderation. Whilst that would rule the possibility of Palpatine mastering it out, I would refer to Exar Kun being a master of the technique, as well as Palpatine in mastering all of the forms. Still, Niman is too balanced to be Palpatine's form.
So ultimately, Juyo is the only one really left, and it fits Palpatine's fighting style the best out of the seven. Clearly, Palpatine enjoys mixing and matching elements from others forms into his Juyo style, but it's probably primarily Juyo.
@shootingnova: I don't see how it isn't a mismatch. Maul handled Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan relatively easily, and Vos is not on their combined level.
@lamlam: Not sure I'd class it as "easily".
Honestly, Vos can for sure win. Vos in legends handled Sora Bulq and the other Dooku acolyte in a gauntlet. He train under Bulq, and Dooku. He also knows Vaapad to a degree. He also beaten another powerful Sith Lord before all that. Vos at his best in Canon manage to take down Dooku before Anakin ever did. So yes, Vos is a easy Obi Wan level character in dueling, and if we take into account his dark side nature, could very well match Maul.
Honestly, Vos can for sure win. Vos in legends handled Sora Bulq and the other Dooku acolyte in a gauntlet.
Tol Skorr's only feats are beating a heavily injured Quinlan, and losing to Quinlan twice (including a time he was nexus-amped and had backup). Vos didn't defeat Sora by merit of skill, he just caught him off-guard at the end of their fight, where Sora had him on his knees. But even then, if we take Legends Vos at his prime, I agree he could possibly stalemate/defeat Sora at that point.
And even with that in mind, Maul is still better than Bulq, so it's not really proof that Vos can win. Maul has stomped Savage Opress, equalled Obi-Wan Kenobi and "comfortably" outfought Jinn and Kenobi (two of the greatest duelists in Jedi history) at the same time.
He train under Bulq, and Dooku. He also knows Vaapad to a degree.
And Maul trained under Sidious, and has fully mastered Vaapad's Sith counterpart, Juyo, along with other forms and countless unarmed martial arts.
He also beaten another powerful Sith Lord before all that.
Who? If you mean Volfe Karkko, he's a Dark Jedi, and while impressive, wasn't really a noteworthy duelist.
Vos at his best in Canon manage to take down Dooku before Anakin ever did. So yes, Vos is a easy Obi Wan level character in dueling, and if we take into account his dark side nature, could very well match Maul.
Canon Vos is a different story. Still haven't read DD because it was unbearable when I last tried, so I'm not sure of the context in his fights with Dooku.
@i_like_swords: Still haven't read DD because it was unbearable when I last tried, so I'm not sure of the context in his fights with Dooku.
Don't. I still have bad memories from last time when I tried... But to explain the fights:
On topic: Maul wins. Quin puts up a fight.
@wollfmyth209: well clearly the PTSD screwed up your memory some, because the fight where Dooku lost to Vos had nothing to do with Ventress, nor was he enraged.
@emperordmb: He was performing on a much higher level, is what I'm getting at. Why... I can try and find an in-universe solution, or claim dear Golden is a bad writer.
@wollfmyth209: In Golden's defence she only had Filoni's scripts to work with
@greysentinel365: I know, but complaining about Filoni has become redundant.
@wollfmyth209: It was months after his last shown fight so there's hardly a upper limit beneath that point afterwards you can use to claim it's an outlier, Ventress isn't even around for that fight so you can't claim she was a motivating factor, and Vos starts off by saying he's "calmer, more focused" or some shit so you can't claim he was enraged.
I just say Dooku overextending was a fluke and that in the majority of fights Dooku's Force edge would win him the fight.
@emperordmb: dooku was able to throw dos via the force in their fight
@emperordmb: Months usually isn't enough for Anakin to go from getting danced around by Dooku, to dancing around Dooku, so it logically shouldn't even be so for Quinlan.
With regards to Ventress, he had an entire dialogue with her about his wish for her to be safe and Dooku dead literally just before his duel with the Count. So I doubt she wasn't a factor in it all.
Maul was pretty much above every Jedi besides Mace and Yoda in ep 1. And imo only Anakin and Obi-wan surpassed him in ep 3. Besides those Jedi, no other canon Jedi has the feats to win.
Darth Maul. Vos kicking and hurting Dooku with physical strikes, OK, but he isn't hurting, perhaps not even making Maul buckle. Maul is a better duelist, being one of the best duelists as of TPM, being surpassed only by Yoda, Mace, Sidious, Dooku and Plagueis. He still was top tier after TPM, although CW era had more master duelists. Vos is good but he is not Maul level. Bulq also isn't Maul level. Volve Karkko also isn't Maul level. Getting somewhat defeated by Cad Bane in TCW is not an impressive feat considering Bane was alone and Vos had Kenobi to help him. Vos might be good with TK but Maul is just better. For these reasons, Maul wins perhaps every time but Quin will not go down that easily.
@shootingnovaVos's win vs dooku was because of being upredictable tight? That shouldn't apply to maul who is a master of juyo
edit: on the other hand , anakin noting dooku as only "perhaps" being more skilled would put vos above maul skill wise, but maul takes the edge power wise, it could still go either way
Maul~Vader IMO, Vader>Dooku (due to form) and Dooku easily stomps Vos. This is barely even a fight, Maul kills him quickly. Maul could probably take Vos and Tholme at the same time TBH.
How does he easily stomp Vos when Vos beat him in Dark Disciple?
@w4nkdestroyer2: is DD canon and legends? Kinda like SOD?
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment