Darth Maul(TCW) vs Darth Bane

@shootingnova Bane's Lightning is considerably greater than Dooku's, which was enough to make Maul scream in pain.

There are a few elements that lead me to believe that Dooku's Lightning is at least as powerful as DOE Bane's. I'm specifically talking about this scan:

If you look more closely, you can see that Maul's body is left charred/smoking. Dooku seemingly only fired a short burst of Lightning that was meant to merely torture Maul, who is an incredibly durable Force user, yet the latter was screaming.

If Dooku can do this to someone like Maul, I don't think it would be absurd to conclude that he would be able to scorch non Force-sensitives, who are nowhere near as durable as the Zabrak Sith, to ash with a Lightning that is being used to kill, not just torture. And given the fact that the Kiffar warriors' and Nightbrothers' bodies were never shown, I think there is nothing to contradict this.

As far as I remember, Bane's best Lightning feat without his Orbalisk armor is unleashing a burst of Lightning that would have scorched four mercenaries to ash had they not been protected by a balcony, and I think Dooku should be able to do the same based off what I said above.

@zapan87: No, Bane's best feat with the Orbalisk armor with Lightning is incinerating people and disintegrating stone, the latter feat of which he accomplished with still the last remnants of inhibiting drugs in his system (granted, IIRC, the place was also apparently strong with the dark side).

He sprang back to his feet, simultaneously drawing his lightsaber with his right hand as he sent a blast of lightning out from the fingertips of his left. The violet bolts should have incinerated all four of his targets on the balcony, yet again the strange power interfering with his ability to draw upon the Force hindered his efforts.

Three of the victims were electrocuted, dying before they even had a chance to scream. The fourth, however, managed to throw herself back from the balcony's edge, evading the deadly attack.

Source: Dynasty of Evil

Despite missing her the first time, Bane followed it up with another blast on the exact same trajectory. Turning her head to follow the course of the misguided bolt, Zannah saw where the first had hit the wall. The stone had been disintegrated in a fist-sized hole, revealing something that looked like bright red plastic beneath it.

Source: Dynasty of Evil

@zapan87:

Maul was already tortured by Darth Sidious before and he was already beaten. Not to mention he was completely vulnerable position there. And yet, he still refuses to talk about what information Dooku seeks.

Dooku never managed to knock out Savage Opress with a force lightning (only stopped him), and Maul is more durable and has better pain tolerance than Savage Opress.

What I understand from their feats, Bane's force lightning is better than Dooku's.

@shootingnova I never denied the first feat, I just didn't remember all the circumstances surrounding it. For the second feat, I don't find it that impressive. Bane was only slightly hindered and he only disintegrated stone in a fist-sized hole. I am still convinced that Dooku's lightning is at least equal to Bane's.

@erkan12 Maul is also incredibly durable and his indefensible position doen't matter here. Maul wasn't actively protecting himself with the Force, but, like all Force sensitives, he has passive Force Barriers protecting him, and Dooku's feat is impressive because of that and because of Maul's durability, which is not changed in any way by his "indefensible" position. Savage is also very durable, and failing to kill him with short blasts of Lightning isn't relevant to the point I was making.

Maul doesn't need to actively defend himself with the Force to resist Lightning, and Dooku still charred his body. Therefore, Dooku can most likely scorch normal people to ash if he is going for the kill, unless there is something really important that I'm missing, but I don't think so

@zapan87: Disintegrating stone whilst slightly hindered is a better showing than anything I have seen Dooku display. Dooku never disintegrated the Kiffar warriors he killed with Lightning.

@shootingnova What about causing a small explosion with Lightning upon hitting a stone ceiling in AOTC? And I never said that he disintegrated the Kiffar warriors (we don't even see their bodies actually) only that he is capable of deforming the flesh of non Force sensitives to ash. If he can burn Maul's flesh and leave the latter's body smoking, he can incinerate mercenaries, and that's my point. I could concede that Dooku's Lightning is less powerful than Bane's but certainly not by a considerable degree.

@zapan87:

1. Eh. The explosion didn't even damage the ceiling.

2. I never said you did, but the fact that he didn't puts his Lightning below Bane, who could disintegrate humans (humans and Kiffar are of similar physical constitution) whilst slightly hindered.

3. Yes, it should be slightly less powerful than Bane's. I never said the margin was considerable.

@shootingnova

1. True, but it should be noted that Dooku's blast was one handed, while Bane's blast was likely more concentrated. Just to ask, do you think disintegrateìing a very small part of a stone wall is better than scorching people to ash? Because I'm under that impression.

2. Ahem, there are also those Nightbrothers, who possess increased durability. I've also heard that they are Force sensitive, but I'm not sure about that. Regardless, I doubt Dooku couldn't have scorched them to ash, considering his performance against Maul, and the fact that he was only torturing him, while he was willing to kill those Nightbrothers (who are nowhere near as durable as Maul). Not only that, but we don't see their corpses either.

3.Conceded, at least for now.

Not that I know of. I believe it's only the Nightsister's who are Force Users.

@zapan87:

1. Not sure. The stone ceiling itself might have had its structure weakened because Dooku called down part of it earlier via telekinesis.

2. Maybe. Although Dooku's Lightning was likely more prolonged and extensive in the case of the Nightbrothers, though. You can clearly see some of the Nightbrothers seemingly resisting it to some degree, so it seems that Dooku's Lightning was probably more than just a single shot.

3. Alright. Concession accepted.

Maul

@darkdefender: If that matters, Clone Wars Magazine #13 (2012) says that Maul can use force lightning.

Though, even if this is true I don't think it will be at Dooku's level, but probably Mighella level.

Also, I asked to Jeremy Barlow that can Maul deflect force lightning or not ? He didn't give any clear answer for it. He said only this ;

Cant Maul just aim at weak spots of Orbalisk Armor? Orbalisk Bane doesnt seem to be faster, or stronger than Maul. And Maul is miles ahead of Bane in terms of lightsaber combat.

@jedisupermaster: No, because Bane is proficient enough in Soresu to defend just his head and wrists.

That being said, 10/10 is a fairly exaggerated number to hand to Bane.

As i remember his wrist was damaged during his fight with Jedi team on Tython. And it was done by completely featless jedi. Maul is stronger, much faster, more skillful and did great against Obi-Wan, who is miles above Bane in Soresu.

Maul can beat Orbalisk Bane.

@jedisupermaster: Maul never did great against Obi-Wan. They were always at an impasse, except for their first duel.

Bane's wrist was damaged whilst he was fighting two other Jedi at the same time as a third. Johun Othone would have been disarmed by a single blow under normal circumstances.

Still, Obi-Wan is above Bane in terms of skill and speed. And Maul managed to fight on par with him. Plus, those jedi are completely featless.

@jedisupermaster: Obi-Wan is not above Orbalisk Bane in speed. Skill? Yes. But he also doesn't have Bane's regeneration or resiliency. Nor does he have Bane's power.

Obi-Wan has feats and he fought on par with characters that have great speed feats, even greater than those of Bane. Plus, he is much more skillful than Bane. And Maul was able to fight on par with him. Banes regeneration is great, but he cant restore his hand when it is fully cut out.

@jedisupermaster: No, he hasn't. He has never fought anybody equally with greater speed feats than Bane, except possibly Grievous (and even that is questionable), and his form was perfectly suited to countering Grievous's form.

@shootingnova: Obi-Wan has better speed feats than DOE Bane, to be honest. Not sure about running speed, but his combat speed and reaction speed is well above Bane's.

He fought characters who's speed feats are at least as good as Bane's. And in my opinion, Maul himself has greater speed feats than Bane. There is no reason to not give chances to Maul against Orbalisk Bane, when he is fast and skilled enough to cut his arms off.

@jedisupermaster: Bane making his lightsaber appear to be everywhere at once rivals Maul's speed feats at least.

@lamlam: I was speaking about Orbalisk Bane. I'm well aware that Obi-Wan is better than Bane in nearly every category.

@shootingnova

Obi-Wan is not above Bane in terms of speed, especially not Orbalisk Bane.

You seemed to imply that Obi-Wan is not faster than Bane regardless of the orbalisks.

@lamlam: My mistake. I don't know why I said "especially".

Maul proved himself to be even faster than some characters with speed feats that are as good as Bane's, such as Qui-Gon Jinn, for example. And Maul was able to be on par with Kenobi, who is much better in Soresu than Bane.

There is nothing like 10/10 for Orbalisk Bane. Maul can cut his arms off and than kill him.

@jedisupermaster: Qui-Gon is not as fast as Orbalisk Bane.

I said I don't believe that Bane would win 10/10.

Sorry, my english is worse than it could be. :(

Qui-Gon has more than enough speed feats to counter those of Bane, or Orbalisk Bane (if that Bane has any speed feats at all). Qui-Gon is a match for Orbalisk Bane in terms of speed. But my point is that Maul proved himself to be faster than Qui-Gon.

@jedisupermaster: I said Orbalisk Bane is faster than Bane, and he simply is. His speed feats are clearly superior by an extensive margin, between forming whirlwinds out of his blade, speedblitzing Force sensitives, and making his blade appear to be everywhere at once.

Speedblitzing force-sensitives usually means nothing when they are featless. And Qui-Gon moved in a blur more than once. He also was able to make a move before everyone was unable to take a breath.

But ok, Maul easily speedblitzed Savage Opress. Bane has never been shown to speedblitz someone of Savage's caliber.

@jedisupermaster: I'm aware of Qui-Gon's speed feats, thank you very much. I compiled his respect thread and I included that feat. It still doesn't compete with Bane's showings.

Moving in a blur is hardly impressive. Bane had similar feats before he even received training in the Force.

Maul never blitzed Savage Opress. He engaged a Savage who had yet to reach the peak of his ability, and he still had to defend against two or so blows.

And he easily did so. That was a legitimate speedblitz. Also, keep in mind Maul didnt want to kill him. Maybe if he wanted to kill Savage, Savage would have been dead earlier. And wasnt Savage already capable of killing jedi masters at that moment?

Well, Bane's feats arent more impressive than those of Qui-Gon, in my opinion. Qui-Gon moved faster than an aye could follow, moved faster than anyone could take a breath and moved in a blur. Those feats are comparable to those of Bane.

I wanna see how Bane speedblitz someone as fast as Savage Opress.

@jedisupermaster: Neither did Savage want to kill Maul.

No, they're really not comparable to making your blade appear to be everywhere at once.

Darth Bane

If its like making a shield from a lightsaber, than its not all that impressive.

Still waiting for Bane speedblitzing someone like Opress or beating someone as fast as Qui-Gon Jin.

@jedisupermaster:

1. No, it's not. It's vastly, vastly superior.

2. Still waiting for an answer on how that is a speedblitz and how beating somebody by virtue of skill and stamina has to do with speed.

He easily dodged few his attacks and easily beat him. That is a speedblitz. Maul beat Savage because he was a lot faster than him. And what speed feats have those jedi who were speedblitzed by Bane? What speed feats have those jedi Bane faced on Tython?

Well, Maul was faster than Qui-Gon anyway.

Even without knowing anything else, Qui-Gon knew this man was trained in the fighting arts of a Jedi, a skilled and dangerous adversary. Worse, he was younger, quicker, and stronger than Qui-Gon, and he was gaining ground rapidly.

-Taken from The Phantom Manace novel.

Bane's speed feats are around those of Maul. But Maul also fought with guys that have speed feats around Bane's. Thats the reason why Maul is faster than Bane.

And he is much more skillful than Bane in terms of a lightsaber combat.

Maul beats Bane, Orbalisks or not.

@jedisupermaster: Maul isn't beating Bane with the Orbalisks. Without extensive knowledge of the weaknesses in the Orbalisks, and without exploiting them from the beginning of the fight, Bane would win almost every time. The Orbalisks' grant him a lightsaber proof shield and amp his Force powers.

Raskta's blue blades flickered too quickly for the eye to see, neutralizing her enemy's initial, wild attack then landing half a dozen lethal blows to his chest and abdomen. But instead of toppling, the big man kept coming, never even breaking stride.

Farfalla saw the Sith Lord turn towards him, sensing the intervention that had saved Raskta's life. Bane unleashed a barrage of Sith lightning, gathering and releasing his power at the speed of thought. The Jedi threw up a Force barrier to shield himself, but the electricity tore right through it and arced toward him.

Raskta's mastery of her blades was unparalleled, but even with her talents augmented by Worror's battle meditation she wasn't able to land a telling blow on such a small target through Bane's defenses.

"Go for the face!" Farfalla shouted, arriving on the scene and throwing himself into the battle as Johun did the same.

Together the three of them held the Sith Lord at bay: Farfalla on the left flank, Johun on the right, and Raskta in the center. Between blocks and parries they cut and stabbed at his face, their combined efforts finally forcing their enemy into a defensive stance.

On her opposite side Farfalla struck with clean, elegant blows, his form perfect as he harried Bane's right flank. Yet though they were able to hold their ground, they couldn't drive him back or defeat him.

They were at an impasse, none of their attacks able to connect with the one vulnerable part of Bane's anatomy. Then Johun caught a glimpse of white flesh peeking out from the seam between the Sith's armored gloves and the strange shells on his forearm. The gap was narrow, but it was large enough for a well-aimed blade to penetrate.

He slashed at his new target. Amplified by Worror's power, the Force flowed through him and guided his blade home. The contact wasn't perfect; his lightsaber glanced off the edge of the armored shells so that he only made shallow contact with the skin beneath. Instead of severing the hand, he merely sliced deep enough to sever nerves and tendons.

All quotes from Darth Bane: Rule of Two

It took the combined efforts of three Jedi to make Bane take a defensive stance, and even then they couldn't get the upper hand. Also take into account, during the whole fight, all the Jedi were amped by battle meditation. With said amp, the closest they got to doing damage that wouldn't heal rather quickly was when Johun targeted that one specific spot on Bane's arm. Even with the amp and having the luxury of fighting with two other Jedi easily more skilled than him to draw Bane's attention away, Johun barely scraped it. Multiple would-be death blows didn't slow his pace at all, his lightning was strong enough to tear through a Force-amped barrier with ease, and even though his style was "sloppy and unrefined," he could protect his face from assaults coming from his right, left, and in front of him. Though Maul is powerful and very skilled, I don't see him faring any better than the Jedi did against Orbalisk Bane.

@jedisupermaster:

He easily dodged few his attacks and easily beat him. That is a speedblitz. Maul beat Savage because he was a lot faster than him. And what speed feats have those jedi who were speedblitzed by Bane? What speed feats have those jedi Bane faced on Tython?

No, it isn't. Not even close. A speedblitz entails you striking somebody down before they can properly respond. That is not the case here.

I never said Bane speedblitzed Jedi.

Well, Maul was faster than Qui-Gon anyway.

Even without knowing anything else, Qui-Gon knew this man was trained in the fighting arts of a Jedi, a skilled and dangerous adversary. Worse, he was younger, quicker, and stronger than Qui-Gon, and he was gaining ground rapidly.

-Taken from The Phantom Manace novel.

I'm aware of that. I'm asking you what makes you think that Maul beating Qui-Gon has to do with speed. Slower characters have beaten faster characters before.

Bane's speed feats are around those of Maul. But Maul also fought with guys that have speed feats around Bane's. Thats the reason why Maul is faster than Bane.

Obi-Wan fought Dooku and Grievous, so does that mean he is faster than them? No, it doesn't. You don't have to be as fast as somebody to fight them, and you're not going to be faster than somebody just because you fight people of their speed class.

And he is much more skillful than Bane in terms of a lightsaber combat.

I'm aware of that. I indicated that in my original post.

Maul beats Bane, Orbalisks or not.

Simply reiterating yourself is not going to get you anywhere.

Darth Bane lol, perhaps the most overrated of the Banite Sith.

Maul.

Darth Maul. More skilled with a lightsaber, stronger, equally fast or faster, and Bane's Lightning could be deflected and Maul has partial resistance to Lightning.