Danzo vs Orochimaru

Danzo may have Izangi,but he has no way of permanently putting down orochimaru....

Danzo gave sasuke more trouble after sasuke made it look slightly easier to kill Orochimaru

If Danzo has KA than he wins without it Orochimaru would slaughter him.

@godemperor123: Frankly it is only because of Shisui's eye, otherwise both Sasuke and Oro are superior

Orochmaru danzo is a chump

koto 1 shots

Danzo, his Sharingan are too powerful for Orochimaru. It’d be a good fight, though.

EDIT: Assuming Edo Tensei is restricted...

orochimaru, eso tensei and kawarimi (danzou uses kotoamatsukami once and he is dead) for the win.

Orochimaru stomps danzo

Danzo stomps his ass. Kotoamatsukami gg.

edo is a prep move he has no prep here

Kotoamatsukami gg

A literal and decent fight with a lack of salt?

This is going to be good

Orochimaru wins. Danzo kept dying to Sasuke. He needed multiple lives just to stand a chance and still lost. Orochimaru also beat the 3rd who was above Danzo. Current Orochimaru should also be stronger than ever with a body that can support him.

@Thenewguysnm1:

the snake clone will make danzou waste kotoamatsukami and as for edo orochimaru is always prepared to use that jutsu and danzou can be sacrificed.

Oro.

Danzo kept dying to Sasuke. He needed multiple lives just to stand a chance and still lost. Orochimaru also beat the 3rd who was above Danzo.

izanagi is a dream/genjutsu. do we count all the times itachi gets stabbed in his? no.

orochimaru did not beat hiruzen. hiruzen chose to kill himself and its only luck oro did not. plus he needed two zombies help.

does he have the zombies here?

theres still nothing oro can do against KA. danzo stomps in seconds.

@admiral_307:

You forgot to tag me.

izanagi is a dream/genjutsu. do we count all the times itachi gets stabbed in his? no.

Ummm you realize what Itachi uses isn't even close to the same right? Everytime you use the move Danzo used you lose an eye. Itachi would only be able to use the move twice and he would never be able to use his sharingang again.

orochimaru did not beat hiruzen. hiruzen chose to kill himself and its only luck oro did not.

He "chose" to die, because he couldn't win. He didn't just decide, hey I want to die. If he could of won without killing himself he would of done it, and the move he used to kill himself actually failed for the most part.

plus he needed two zombies help.

He summoned those just like Hiruzen summoned Monkey King Enma.

does he have the zombies here?

Probably considering the OP says he has been studying Danzo for this fight and will be prepared.

theres still nothing oro can do against KA. danzo stomps in seconds.

KA?

Kotoamatsukami. Which is actually one word, not two.

@marc_55: And has Danzo shown to use that to one shot people, especially ninjas on the level of Orochimaru?

It doesn't one shot anyone, as it's not that kind of Genjutsu. It's more mind/will control, forcing the victim to enact your will as if it were their own.

He does it in Mifune, forcing him to make Danzō the head of the allies. Itachi also falls for it, freeing him from Kabuto's control. It's hyped as the strongest known Genjutsu and completely unbreakable alone.

Assuming it's not restricted (which it really should be), Oro would fall to its use as well. He's fallen to much weaker Genjutsu, and this one lacks the key sight requirement, just like before.

@marc_55: Then why didn't he use it to defeat Sasuke?

Ummm you realize what Itachi uses isn't even close to the same right? Everytime you use the move Danzo used you lose an eye. Itachi would only be able to use the move twice and he would never be able to use his sharingang again.

false. danzo can turn it on and off when required. its only when hes been using it for a full minute straight, the eye closes. this is what karin notices. every minute that passes, the eye closes. and when karin says "hey sasuke run away and use long range", obito says thats useless. danzo woudl just turn off izanagi. the only way to defeat danzo is ten whole minutes of CONTINUOUS assault to use up all the eyes.

ultimately the price is blindness but only due to overuse. madara saved his own life using the move and that eye did not go blind. he even shoved it into nagato's socket. and when obito uses it to defeat konan, the eye goes blind but only because he had to, to survive 5 continuous minutes of explosions. and this worked because hes got a mastery of his powers higher than danzo's so its not 1 minute, its 5 minutes or longer. for madara, he timed it so it was only one usage. thats not 5 minutes. thats not even 1. thats turning back the clock for ONE stab wound. just one. and there's no way that oro is lasting 10 minutes of continuous combat without being hit by either KA or the movement seal that danzo can place.

you cannot count it as a "death" when the jutsu LITERALLY turns anythign that happens to danzo, lethal or non lethal, into never having happened in the first place. thats its purpose.

He "chose" to die, because he couldn't win

against three enemies, two of which were completely immortal, it was the only option to take them down. he did not have any other sealing jutsus, strangely enough.

He summoned those just like Hiruzen summoned Monkey King Enma.

stil 3 vs 2, genius. thats unbalanced.

@alextheboss: In the fight against Sasuke it was on cooldown because he used it on Mifune earlier. If he had it from the beginning he could have used it and insta win.

Fact: Orochimaru 1v1ed and defeated Hiruzen. It was a fair fight, every technique Orochimaru used was a jutsu.

Fact: Danzo has stated himself Hiruzen was way above him.

Fact: Orochimaru > Hiruzen > Danzo

@admiral_307: You forgot to tag me again even though I just reminded you. And you are going to sarcastically call me a genius after that? And I never said it wasn't 3v2 I said summoning is allowed so it counts as a power for Orichimaru. Orochimaru didn't even summon Manda.

And I'm pretty sure one of Madara's eye's did go blind but maybe I'm remembering wrong.

It was on a cool dowm. Then he wasn't sure if to use it against Sasuke, save it for Obito, or sacrifice it for Izanagi.

@marc_55: If he was that powerful then why didn't he just take over the hidden leaf village? Orochimaru almost took down the whole village, so if Danzo was already in the village, a high up rank, had a genjutsu that powerful, and could defeat the 3rd with it, I don't see why he wouldn't of been the Hokage with complete control of the village. Imo story wise Danzo is at best even with Hiruzen, but most likely slightly below.

@marc_55: It's relevant because I'm basically saying he didn't because he couldn't. Danzo couldn't beat Hiruzen in 1v1 combat, at least not without in an epic fight where he would have to spam his eyes. He couldn't' just walk up and genjutsu him. Genjutsu is like ninjutsu, it can be countered if the other ninja is good enough.

@marc_55:

Which we know isn't true in context of a versus battle.

Ya, but has Danzo even put anyone noteworthy under genjutsu? Mifune isn't even a ninja, and has nowhere close to the knowledge of ninjutsu as Orochimaru does.

That's great, Oro isn't one that can, and this jutsu is hyped and has feats surpassing any assumed resistances anyway.

Why do you say that? Itachi could put him under genjutsu because Itachi was a superior ninja and is probably the greatest genjutsu user in the series at the time. Going off of that isn't really fare. Orochimaru is one of the strongest ninja of the time and he and Dazno were working with each other as equals. If Danzo could of controlled a threat such as Orochimaru with genjutsu he would have. Orochimaru just has better feats overall anyways.

The OP even says Orochimaru has been studying Danzo while Danzo only knows of Orochimaru. That is a massive advantage, especially for someone like Orochimaru. With the knowledge he gained Orohcimaru would almost certainly find a way to win. If he had know idea of Danzo's power set then I could see going with Danzo.

@marc_55: I mean Mifune uses chakra and probably has a good understanding of ninjutsu, but on par with Orochimaru's? I highly doubt it. Orochimaru's goal is to learn as much about ninjutsu as possible. It is his life goal, he is currently really old, and does whatever is necessary to reach his goal. Going of that logic he should "know" more about ninjutsu than anyone in the whole series besides people like the sage of six paths.

And Sasuke countered Orochimaru's possession with his sharingan, but he couldn't beat Orochimaru in a fight that way. He flat out said if Orochimaru was healthy he probably couldn't win, and that is an Orochimaru that had his hands sealed and couldn't even do proper jutsus. So pre MS Sasuke<hand sealed Orochimaru<prime Orochimaru by Sasuke's own admission.

And maybe kotoamatsukami should be restricted, but if anything reanimation jutsu is more dangerous. If Danzo has a cooldown time on that genjutsu, how is he going to stop the multiple immortal kage level opponents that are attacking him? And with knowledge there is a high chance of Orochimaru starting off with the reanimation jutsu. The most fare fight would probably be no kotoamatsukami and no reanimation jutsu.

@alextheboss: Oro doesn't have a Genjutsu counter, Kotoamatsukami is Genjutsu that he cannot counter. That's all.

@marc_55: I mean the data book says Orochimaru has a 5 in genjutsu, plus saying he loses because he doesn't have a genjutsu counter, you might as well say Kurenai would beat him with genjutsu. And Danzo was able to manipulate Mifune, but do we have proof he is good enough in genjutsu to lets say have force Mifune to just kill himself? And Orochimaru can counter genjutsu as I just looked back and the Orochimaru vs Itachi fight and Orochimaru was going to break out of hit but Itachi cut his arm off before he could do it. Danzo can win this, but it won't be genjutsu gg like you are implying. He would have to use genjutsu, quickly incapacitate and seal Orochimaru, all before Orochimaru gets his barrings again. If the reanimations are already summoned, there is no way he could do all of that.

@alextheboss: Kurenai would beat him with a Genjutsu, assuming he allowed her to use one on him for no reason.

You seem to be confused about Kotoamatsukami, there is no regaining his bearings here. If caught, Oro would immediately fall in line with whatever Danzō made him do. Including releasing his Edo and allowing himself to be sealed. That's all.

I'm not arguing Danzō vs Oro.

@marc_55:

Kurenai would beat him with a Genjutsu, assuming he allowed her to use one on him for no reason.

Orochimaru seemed really surprised Itachi was able to put him under genjutsu and eve then he was able to move under it. Genjutsu can be countered so I don't see why a top tier ninja wouldn't counter a mid tier's genjutsu.

You seem to be confused about Kotoamatsukami, there is no regaining his bearings here. If caught, Oro would immediately fall in line with whatever Danzō made him do. Including releasing his Edo and allowing himself to be sealed. That's all.

Really? Is there a scan proving that it has this kind of power?

@alextheboss: Being a Ninja isn't a counter to any ninja arts. That'd be why.

Oro seeming surprised or not doesn't really mean anything, he has canonically been one shot with Sharingan Genjutsu without fail.

Yes, Kotoamatsukami is literally noted as a jutsu to control your targets will/thoughts by making them do what you want, but as if it what their own thoughts. Hence why it's so unbreakable, you'd never even know you were under it. As for scans, just go read the Kage summit. Or maybe Itachi being freed from Kabuto's control. Or basically any mention of Shisui and Koto.

@marc_55:

Being a Ninja isn't a counter to any ninja arts. That'd be why.

Well ya I know. Characters like Naruto aren't that good against genjutsu, but Orochimaru is a confirmed genius in pretty much every aspect of being a ninja.

Oro seeming surprised or not doesn't really mean anything, he has canonically been one shot with Sharingan Genjutsu without fail.

It really only happened once. Like I said, the Sasuke thing isn't really an appropriate case to go off of as it was him trying to take over Sasuke's body, not an actual fight, and Orochimaru was not in good condition. If Sasuke said he can't beat a healthy Orochimaru, then he isn't beating him, even with genjutsu.

Yes, Kotoamatsukami is literally noted as a jutsu to control your targets will/thoughts by making them do what you want, but as if it what their own thoughts. Hence why it's so unbreakable, you'd never even know you were under it. As for scans, just go read the Kage summit. Or maybe Itachi being freed from Kabuto's control. Or basically any mention of Shisui and Koto.

So could Danzo beat Madara with that move? Because as far as I remember Madara doesn't have any anti genjutsu feats.

could Danzo beat Madara with that move?

yes.

Fact: Danzo has stated himself Hiruzen was way above him.

that means nothing. danzo possessed a nearly unbeatable genjutsu that for plot's sake, had a recharge time which is the only reason he didnt oneshot everyone and take over the world. not restricting it essentially makes almost every danzo fight a stomp.

If he was that powerful then why didn't he just take over the hidden leaf village?

danzo wanted to do it legit. the reason why he used it in the kage summit to take over the world/ninja alliance was because he was honestly out of time. akatsuki wanted to kill them all.

Ya, but has Danzo even put anyone noteworthy under genjutsu? Mifune isn't even a ninja, and has nowhere close to the knowledge of ninjutsu as Orochimaru does.

why would he need to? he has the eye and the eye was considered and stated by everyone around them to be as powerful as the original. itachi was counting on the eye he had, to brainwash sasuke to be eternally loyal to the village. unless itachis a total idiot, danzo will be able to use it to similar effect.

. If Danzo has a cooldown time on that genjutsu, how is he going to stop the multiple immortal kage level opponents that are attacking him?

order the user to cancel it. one use is all they need.

And Danzo was able to manipulate Mifune, but do we have proof he is good enough in genjutsu to lets say have force Mifune to just kill himself?

this is not a jutsu thats based around the user's skill in using it. its more like kamui. instantly the same effect, every time. the affected are not even aeare they were ever hit at all. thats how powerful it is. to them,. killing themselves was always their idea. not the KA's

First of all, Danzo knows **rumors** about Orochimaru, while Orochimaru studied him so he knows it as a fact. Izanagi is a defensive jutsu, not an offensive one for god's sake.. Orochimaru could revive Hashirama and Tobirama.

Second of all, Orochimaru's summoning is superior to Danzo. Orochimaru knows MOST jutsu and their counters... While Danzo is pretty idiotic, the guy tried to break a susanoo with a kunai..

Correction: Danzo was getting shit on by a bloodlusted sasuke and sasuke would've won either way

Orochimaru was severely weakened against a pre hebi sasuke

Orochimaru has reanimation

Izanagi is a defensive jutsu, not an offensive one ffs

Reanimation FTW

Danzo's Izanagi is far inferior to the real Izanagi shown by Obito the false Kage has shown that he can do nothing more than stay immortal for a minute, the ten sharingans grant ten minutes of immortality, that's all.

Danzo's immortality is in fact difficult to be faced by shinobi, with little stamina and low defensive capacity, which is not the case with Sasuke. The Uchiha has Ninjutsus from MS that consume a lot of chakra which is why he needed Karin.

Orochimaru does not rely on jutsus that consume a lot of chakra to resist Danzo's ten minutes of immortality and the current Orochimaru has Hashirama cells

Danzo Koto's is hype! Has never been shown him controlling Shinobi from the Orochimaru league who is able to overcome an advanced Genjutsu from Itachi the Magen: Kasegui no Jutsu. Danzo is not an Uchiha he is not a competent user of Genjutsu.

Orochimaru

Danzo got killed by a kunai

Danzo wins easily with Koto. Itachi literally gave Naruto the eye to hypnotize Sasuke if nothing else worked.

@aldoronthegoat: Danzo wins easily with Koto. Itachi literally gave Naruto the eye to hypnotize Sasuke if nothing else worked.

Orochimaru easily. Sasuke beat a weakened bed ridden Orochimaru by turning his genjutsu against him. Sasuke beat Danzo by using massive chakra rains and that is the only reason why it was close. Sasuke was playing with his new toy that he likely didn't need based off what we've seen. It was just a good way of staying safe while Izanagi did it's thing.

Orochimaru is safe without a susanno due to his revival technique (heavy on chakra drain) and practically being a snake logia with his vast array of jutsu. Danzo isn't killing him in the melee or breaking down the rashamon gates like the 4 tail did.The vacuum elephant summon is just going to eat a fire style ninjutsu (Orochimaru is stated to be able to use all types of ninjutsu multiple times) or be killed by a much larger snake. We saw nothing from Danzo that would give him the edge besides Izanagi and that is just a timer. Danzo deactivating it is just a chance for Orochimaru to finish him.