@fallschirmjager: Wow... why are you so salty over this? I'm not overrating. I'm not crying. I'm not doing anything. I'm debating a point with you. Do the same or just don't bother @ing me.
-How many fights has Cap won by punching? Aside from meaingless fodder. He beat Batroc by tackling him, he won in the elevator by brute strength (particular on the magnet), and he didn't even beat WS properly.
Ah, so you answer my question with a question due to your inability to answer it. He beat Batroc by tackling him and then punching him out. I don't get what the issue is with him using "brute strength" in the elevator. What, was he supposed to webspam everyone? Would that have impressed you more? He punched and knocked out everyone in that elevator like a good fighter would do, and the fact he resisted being tazed and restrained so much is a further testament to his strength and endurance. He had Bucky knocked out to rights but has these things called morals and character motiviations that he won't carry over to a stranger in a blue and red suit.
If Peter caught Cap's fist, Cap's fist isn't moving. Something Peter is fully capable of doing. Dont' overrated his striking strength. The best SS feat isn't even Cap's - its Bucky's metal arm making a small hole in concrete. Cap's best offensive output is his shield, something that will never touch Peter.
So we're ignoring my point about Cap headbutting or kicking Peter, and going on the assumption that Peter actually has the skill to time and grapple with Cap so effectively he can do nothing about it? Because he can bullet time? Okay. You go with that. I'll be waiting here for you to quote and directly counter all of my points like I'm doing with you.
Why does it matter if Bucky's the best striker with his left arm? Why is that even relevant to this debate? Well, you did remind me of his best striking feat I suppose, which makes Cap surviving his punches even more impressive. So thanks for that. Cap can do just fine with his own punches which busted a submarine canopy underwater and in theory would dent steel like Red Skull did. His shield won't factor in, unless it's a purely physical fight which would be more fair IMO, but even than Cap is good to go.
-Cap can't outmaneuver him at all. He doesn't have Peter's speed or agility. Not even close.
-First of all, those durability feats you mentioned more are for his shield, not Cap. When he jumped out of a building he landing on his shield, and still needed a moment. When he got shot by Bucky's RPG, he went flying 100 yards into a bus and we cut off screen. He didn't get up that fast and was propably pretty woozy if not outright KO'd.
Don't even mention the Chitauri lasers. Those things were stupid inconsistent. Can't hurt Cap but can hurt Hulk? Okay.
- I meant that if Peter had Cap's fist/wrist held, Cap can wriggle around using his superior martial arts skill, throw some kicks and headbutts, and in general just get himself out of that hold - which Peter does not have the skill feats sufficient to suggest he could even place Cap in it.
- Nope, IIRC he landed body first when he hit the car. I wasn't referencing that bus feat. I can't remember all the fight scenes from TWS to be honest, but I do remember Cap falling from the helicarrier, landing somewhere really low down and being alright. He was hanging off a ledge.
Cap got shot by one ground rifle. Hulk was being spammed indefinitely by dozens of vehicle lasers which are even more powerful. Even then they were more restraining him than actually hurting/injuring him. Nothing inconsistent there I'm afraid.
Peter can win in any way you want. Cap is never touching him. You can make light of webspam all you want, but its very much a factor in Spider man's fights. Especially this Spider-Man who usages it extremely well. Its not like Cap is even close to the same fighter with or without his shield. His best defensive and offensive output is with that attached to him, so I don't know why you think you need to imply Spider-Man is garbage without his webs.
Shall we debate movie Thor with or without his hammer? Or Tony with or without his Armor? Or should we just drop it because its pointless to cry about something that the side your arguing for can't overcome and just accept it?
"Cap is never touching him" is an overstatement. Peter cannot win the fight by clinging to walls all day. I agree he can web up ftw every time, but in a purely physical fight Cap can punch him out IMO.
Of course Cap is "close to the same fighter" with or without his shield. Peter has no hand-to-hand skill to speak of that is scratching Cap. He's a very agile guy but he isn't a good striker or grappler.
Are you going to accept the fact Peter isn't a good grappler or striker and that Cap wouldn't get stomped in a physical fight, just because Peter dodges bullets and is agile? Because I've already accepted Peter can win with webs. It is a cheap win nonetheless, but it's a win. I'm not crying or failing to accept anything. You're just salty over this for some reason.
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