Black Widow (MCU) VS Nyssa al Ghul (Arrowverse)

@arcus1: Great showings, a lot of people ignore those scans. You remember exactly which issue she blocked the arrow in?

That was a different comic, the Avengers Initiative. I'm not sure if it's considered canon

I also side with Widow..more impressive showings. And Superior Equipment/ Weaponry.

All she needs to do is land Widows bite once and the match is a wrap from there. In fact her taser batons from Age of Ultron I'm sure would be enough

@jashro44:

I also feel he didn't dodge them because Widow was on their side. Why would he be expecting an attack from one presumed to be an Ally?

U r just assuming that Nyssa and league soldiers both wearing same armor , Just pay little more attention to the show next time when u see .

@arcus1: Yeah it's not. I found the list of the canon issues I needed that issue name. Thanks for the info!

What evidence is there that Nyssa's armor specifically is bulletproof? The only one who's shown bulletproof armor is Ollie when he was Al Sah Him, and for all we know he had special armor, or it was just a one time thing

Show me evidence of Nyssa specifically having bulletproof armor, or even any other instance of bulletproof armor being used by the League

@arcus1:

That's not even a hold. Yeah she managed to get on top of him and tried to get a knife to his throat, but he quickly flipped her and got her in an actual hold, almost killing her. It wasn't just brute strength. Assuming that Ollie couldn't possibly have done that if he wasn't stronger than her is a baseless assumption. The actual evidence shows Ollie winning, and Sara needing to beg Ollie to spare her life

It was quite clearly strength. She had her knife on his throat but he grabbed her hand and she couldn't overpower him to do anything. And Sara needing to beg Ollie only happened because well, Oliver had her in a hold and she again couldn't move because she was quite clearly physical inferior.

So...you count Nyssa gaining a brief advantage over Ollie only for it to be immediately reversed as her outskilling him, but Malcolm flipping Nyssa easily and retreating as Ollie and the others arrived as nothing?

Did the fight end when Malcolm flipped Nyssa? No. Nyssa was still very much in fight but Malcolm decided to retreat. You have provided 2 instances to prove that Malcolm "embarrassed" Nyssa and not a single one of them moved past him hitting her once or Nyssa going down. Nyssa was quite clearly in fight in both the instances.

Unlike the instances you posted, Oliver and Nyssa actually fought for quite a while, where they both got hits in and Nyssa got Oliver into a hold. If it was someone physically inferior than her, the fight would have ended right then and there. But yes, technically Oliver beat her because skill is not the only factor in a fight. Physicals play a huge role as well, which allowed Oliver to win.

She flat out said that she wasn't sparring and that she'd show no mercy

And yet she was completely calm and even smiling. When she actually wanted to kill him(the 3 way fight), she was actually pretty brutal.

Losing to Malcolm isn't a low showing, it's an average showing for Nyssa. You can't somehow claim that she's comparable to the likes of Ollie and Malcolm when she's consistently inferior

So, you keep saying. I have provided 1 instance of her outskilling Oliver in a fight, one instance of her outright beating Malcolm, one instance of her keeping up with both Malcolm and Oliver and to counter that you gave me two instances of Malcolm landing one hit on Nyssa and that's it. Both times, Nyssa was far from down and was still going. Running away from a fight after socking someone once does not mean you "embarrassed" them.

Sure, flipping through a barrage of fire from tanks surrounding her on all sides is just aim dodging. Charging up a stairway towards guys with automatic weapons firing at her is just aim dodging. First scan shows her moving right as the gun is being fired, in the previous panel she wasn't moving and the guy was lined up to fire. Make of that what you will

Umm...yeah. That is exactly what it is. Aim dodging. Unless you can somehow prove that Natasha moved after the bullet was fired, every bit of the scan is aim dodging.

If you want more evidence that Nyssa isn't on Malcolm or Ollie's level

So tying up someone with a cable arrow is now outskilling someone? Wow.

Widow

The knife wasn't on his throat. She was trying to get it to his throat but he stopped her and very quickly flipped her

Sure, if Ollie was hypothetically weaker than Nyssa he might hypothetically lose to her. But he's not. And we can argue hypotheticals all day long to no end, but gaining a brief advantage that is immediately countered doesn't make Nyssa more skilled than Ollie.

Nyssa needed Ollie to take down Malcolm because she knew she couldn't beat him. Trying to place her on that level is false because there's every indication that she's not

Her "outskilling" Oliver is a weak showing of her getting a brief advantage that's immediately countered. Her "beating" Malcolm served the plot and is refuted by tons of indications that she can't beat him. Her keeping up with Ollie and Malcolm just means she's not immediately stomped by either, but does show that she's inferior.

Lol, so Nyssa's brief good position against Ollie counts as her outskilling him, but Ollie actually beating Nyssa (gaining an advantage in h2h followed up by archery) doesn't count as him outskilling her?

Miss Overatted gets stomped by Nyssa.

Skilled enough to keep up with Ant Man (notice how she times her kick perfectly to nail him as he grows). Fight was inconclusive as we didn't really see much and they eventually switched opponents

Clearing through a squad of armored mercenaries

Skilled enough to fight very effectively while bound to a chair

Fighting multiple opponents

Outskilling Hawkeye (despite the latter's strength advantage)

Widow stomps.

Nyssa takes this more often than not.

If Natasha can't keep Nyssa at distance, she gets beaten handily in cqc.

like every other thread nat suffocates nyssa by shoving her head between her legs.

nyssa dies happy

Bump.

Widow has never fought and beat anyone of note. Nyssa has defeated Malcolm Merlyn which alone puts her in a class above Black Widow. Nyssa's speed and combat skill is too much for Widow

Natasha handily.

@jayc1324: Didn't Malcolm beat Nyssa more often than not?

Yup. Nyssa is still better than Natasha though, just by being on Malcolm's level at all.

@jayc1324: Ok.

Nyssa's not on Malcolm's level. That one time she "beat" him can be attributed to a number of reasons, from plot so Malcolm wanting to be captured as part of his plan to survive Ra's blade and become the next Ra's. Either way, he's stomped her so many times, and in S4 she flat out admits she can't beat him

@arcus1: Who do you think wins?

Nat's gear gives her the win.

Probably Widow. She's got solid gear, has shown good fodder wrecking feats for scaling, including fights against superhuman fodder like Chitauri, and by in-universe logic should be at least as good as people like agent May, who would beat Nyssa

@arcus1: But she did beat him and she can fight at his level. You can't just say she's not on his level when she has actually beat him. No way Malcolm let himself lose, he did not want to be tortured by Ra's. I agree Malcolm is superior but Nyssa has a level of skill and capabilities BW cannot match

The show went out of their way to make it explicitly clear that Nyssa can't beat Malcolm, one circumstantial win (that serves the plot) doesn't change that. Unless Nyssa shows some major upgrades, she's clearly not at Malcolm's level anymore than, say, Diggle's at Ollie's level. Just because she's fought him doesn't mean she's at his level somehow

Being tortured by Ra's allowed Malcolm to say he survived Ra's blade, because that was connected to becoming the next Ra's al Ghul (I forget how exactly), idk for sure if he was already planning that when he got captured, but it fits with how he operates

@arcus1: Malcolm was so scared of Ra's though. No way that was part of his plan, he literally tried to leave the city with Thea and did everything in his power to stay away from him. There's no way that was his plan and there's nothing to suggest that. I am fine if you want to boil down Nyssa's victory to plot though.

Now they both have league training and clearly excelled far beyond what the average league mook can do. I would consider them in the same skill tier, even if she's at the bottom of it. I mean they'd never have Diggle beat Oliver, but her beating Malcolm was at least somewhat believable. Malcolm has really been downgraded since season 1, even Thea is able to land hits on him. His power level varies based on whatever the story needs.

Eh he does say after becoming Ra's that that was his plan "all along" (however long that is), and it would explain the inconsistency with Nyssa actually being able to beat Malcolm, but I don't totally buy that explanation myself, just something to consider. Even without that, it could easily just be PIS, cause it's massively inconsistent to have Nyssa be able to match, let alone beat, Malcolm

Sure they're both better than the average League ninja, but that doesn't mean they're equal. Widow's also better than the average League ninja, so I don't see how that helps Nyssa

I mean I just used Nyssa being on Malcolm's level as a succinct way of saying why she should stomp BW. She is too fast and too skilled.

Nyssa most likely

Natasha.

With equipment I'll say Nyssa.

Black Widow but only due to her gear.

Widow was holding back when fighting Clint

She held on a alien ship with one hand she is physical superior

She got slam by hulk and took down a blood lusted Hawkeye

Superior durability (Widow)

Natasha

Widow ftw

Nyssa.

Widow and this ain't close.

Nyssa.

Bump.

Backing Nat. Superior skill + physicals.

Romanoff. She's too good in these scenarios.

Nyssa.

Bump

Nyssa.

Natasha, better training, showings, credentials, feats, standing, scaling, track record. Really no way to argue for Nyssa.

Ahhh classic KoL, trying to stir up CW/MCU drama.