Is Barbara Gordon the best Batgirl?

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#51 Posted by knighthood (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

I enjoy seeing the classic Babs uniform, but I prefer Cassandra.

#52 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1801 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ravager4: I know, I suppose I could have worded that differently. I don't blame Simone at all for the absence of Cass and Steph, and I (usually) really enjoy her writing. Honestly the only reason I ever had a problem with resetting Barbara as Batgirl is because it feels like a step backward. So much progress and development was made over the years, and then just thrown out the window. I'm enjoying Batgirl regardless though.

#53 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio
@Imagine_Man15 yeah, she lost a lot of development, but so did a lot of other characters. We'll still get to see her develop over time, and at the hands of a writer who knows the character very well. The thing about Barbara is that, on a large scale, she is the most popular Batgirl. That's not an opinion, that is a fact stemming from many sources.

Batgirl was the best selling book with a female lead this past month and is usually consistently number two in that category behind Wonder Woman. The same, as far as I know, could never be said about the past Batgirl series. Plain and simply, Babs is a much more marketable and profitable character, especially for younger girls. I see all kinds of Babsgirl stuff, like T-shirts and headbands and stuff, all over the place. As far as broad appeal, Babs takes the edge over the darker and more broody Cass, and Steph, who, as well as her series was written, never really caught on in terms of broad appeal.

DC, meanwhile, has caught on to how popular Babsgirl is, so I wouldn't expect them to hand over the mantle to anyone else any time soon. You can argue your opinion about who you prefer as Batgirl until the sun comes home, and that's perfectly fine, but facts don't lie, and right now facts stayed that Babs is the best Batgirl for DC as a company. From a business standpoint, they'd be dumb to change that. Now don't get me wrong, I hope Steph and Cass return I'm some capacity soon, I really do, but as far as Batgirl goes, it's all Barbara.
#54 Posted by kasino (1611 posts) - - Show Bio

Cain/Barbs

brown not in their league

#55 Posted by goldenbat (13 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ravager4 said:

Batgirl was the best selling book with a female lead this past month and is usually consistently number two in that category behind Wonder Woman. The same, as far as I know, could never be said about the past Batgirl series.

This is true, but not only has Batgirl placed #2 in the 'female lead character' category; the Batgirl series, in particular issue #0, placed #29 in overall (not just DC) comics sales in September 2012, which is one ahead of Wonder Woman, which placed #30.

For more info: http://www.newsarama.com/comics/september-2012-comic-book-sales-charts.html

#56 Posted by X9 (755 posts) - - Show Bio

: Hoho, I really CAN'T wait till issue #15...though #13 and #14 are promising to be quite thrilling.

Oh, and her annual, of course.

Gosh, I've never been so happy for being a Babs' fan...I've never seen her taking part in so many things :P

About the sales: Haha, these are great news!

#57 Posted by KZR (487 posts) - - Show Bio

@justjoking: Damn straight.

#58 Posted by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't wait for the annual - bring it on Catwoman!

#59 Posted by goldenbat (13 posts) - - Show Bio

@justjoking: The annual's going to be amazing - not only is Catwoman coming to play, the Talon that fought Batgirl in Night of the Owls is coming back for revenge... EXCITING!!! So far, Batgirl has featured Nightwing, Batwoman, Catwoman (in the annual), The Joker and Batman himself, so it's only a matter of time before Wonder Woman comes to join the party... Batgirl VS Wonder Woman - who would win? Wonder Woman is the first thing that came to mind, but don't underestimate Barbara, she has some tricks up her sleeve...

#60 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

yes she is awesome and the best batgirl

#61 Posted by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: This is true.

Also, issue #13 was amazing. Phenomenal. Out of this world. Less than a week until the annual - Catwoman's coming to play!

#62 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

Cassandra Cain is probably the best Batgirl in the DC Universe.

Stephanie Brown seemed a lot more human to me, I liked her more.

#63 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@justjoking: Batgirl was already sold out.

#64 Posted by chocobojam (288 posts) - - Show Bio

Is barbara the best batgirl?? hell no!! its none other than cassandra cain, the best there is in what she do.

#65 Posted by Matchstick (565 posts) - - Show Bio

She may not be the best Batgirl, but she's the classic iteration of her. I'm sure we'll see Cassie again though, Barbara's days of walking won't last forever.

#66 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

Yep

#67 Posted by Skewer (325 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd have to say Barbara, she made the role of batgirl and is just so underrated these days. I wasn't a fan of her and like a lot of people didn't like her that much until her appearance on batman the animated series changed that. I feel that she doesn't get enough respect and had to be turned into a paraplegic to get some which I find is pretty unfair.

#68 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12602 posts) - - Show Bio

Babs is my Batgirl do to my BTAS nostalgia and my inexperience with other Batgirls

#69 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12602 posts) - - Show Bio

@goldenbat said:

To all those people who love Cassandra Cain or Stephanie Brown, you're on the wrong forum. This is for fans of Barbara Gordon. Yes, Barbara was Oracle, but now she's Batgirl.

Again.

Get over it.

DC made her Batgirl, and if DC thinks removing Oracle from continuity and making Barbara Batgirl again, then I'm all for it.

Did I like Oracle? Yes.

Do I like Barbara as Batgirl? Yes

Can I change DC's decision? No

Can I make Barbara Oracle again? No

So why bother trying to change the unchangeable?

Anyway, Barbara's a pretty cool Batgirl. Just saying.

No i believe this topic asked whether or not Babs was the best which implies that the op wants the opinions of other people.

#70 Posted by SupBatz (1705 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skewer said:

I'd have to say Barbara, she made the role of batgirl and is just so underrated these days. I wasn't a fan of her and like a lot of people didn't like her that much until her appearance on batman the animated series changed that. I feel that she doesn't get enough respect and had to be turned into a paraplegic to get some which I find is pretty unfair.

It wasn't so much her being in a wheelchair that made people like Babs as Oracle. It was that she matured as a character and took on her own identity where she (arugably) did more good than she did when actually had mobility.

#71 Posted by BlackRowan (51 posts) - - Show Bio

stephanie brown because she has something different from other batgirls

#72 Posted by TDK_1997 (14486 posts) - - Show Bio

I like her a lot but she's better as Oracle.Cass is just too badass.

#73 Posted by dboyrules2011 (12116 posts) - - Show Bio

@justjoking said:

@goldenbat said:

Barbara is the best Batgirl. She's the only Batgirl who fights in high-heels. What a trouper.

Cass, you were pretty good.

Steph, well...

Babs, you go girl!

#74 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Cassandra Cain was the best Batgir

Stephanie was interesting cause she was fun and joyfull

while Barbara as batgirl pre-52 was the smart one and had strong will

new-52 Barb is a traumatized victim and nothing else

#75 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

Barbara Gordon is the best Batgirl. Second is Stephanie Brown. and last Cassandra Cain who never really was a good fit in the role. Barbara may not be the best fighter of this group but she is a great hero and intelligence and determination always amaze me. I love the fact that she can rise from the personal tragedy of her life and be Batgirl again. She may have been a victim once and she may still feel like she needs to prove herself but she is still a hero to me.

#76 Posted by SupBatz (1705 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy said:

she is a great hero and intelligence and determination always amaze me. I love the fact that she can rise from the personal tragedy of her life and be Batgirl again.

I really like this image of Babs. The idea of her rising phoenix-like after falling and combining aspects of her Batgirl and Oracle personas presents such a powerful image of development and evolution. And I think that that would've been the perfect way to approach her character after putting her back into action.

But as someone who's read nearly all of Simone's run on Batgirl, I honestly have not seen much intelligence, determination, or rising from personal tragedy. I truly wish Gail had focused more on these qualities since the beginning of her run rather than making Babs seem like a novice who is constantly bringing up her past demons rather than moving past them. Gail's run hasn't been bad. Just unmemorable and lacking any worthwhile development. Feels more like a step backwards than true growth on Babs' part. And one would think taking Babs out of the chair and back into action would bring about nothing but growth.

#77 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz: Actually I think Babs is where she should be. . Sometimes recovery can be just as rough as the root problem. She's angry and not 100 percent sure that she is going to stay recovered. You don't always just get over that kind of trauma. I was in a wheelchair for a few months myself so I get it. Mine was an illness that caused it and not being shot but I get it. Sometimes your head still isn't in the right place.

And the reason Babs is acting like a novice is because she had just started being Batgirl again. She was rusty. Plus with the New 52 version she wasn't Batgirl very long before she got crippled. So she is definitely learning the ropes again. I have read the whole series and I have really enjoyed.it. It is my fave DC book at the moment.

Most people after that kind of injury would never attempt to be a hero again but Babs is willing. That scene where she saved that couple during christmas really showed me that she is there to help people. Maybe she is trying to prove something to herself and maybe becoming Batgirl again is more of an outlet for her but I think she is on her way.

#78 Edited by SUNMAN (7141 posts) - - Show Bio

Stephanie's was my favorite at least in the comics over the last 20 years or so.

Animated Barbara Gordon is all we have ever seen

#79 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy said:

@SupBatz: Actually I think Babs is where she should be. . Sometimes recovery can be just as rough as the root problem. She's angry and not 100 percent sure that she is going to stay recovered. You don't always just get over that kind of trauma. I was in a wheelchair for a few months myself so I get it. Mine was an illness that caused it and not being shot but I get it. Sometimes your head still isn't in the right place.

And the reason Babs is acting like a novice is because she had just started being Batgirl again. She was rusty. Plus with the New 52 version she wasn't Batgirl very long before she got crippled. So she is definitely learning the ropes again. I have read the whole series and I have really enjoyed.it. It is my fave DC book at the moment.

Most people after that kind of injury would never attempt to be a hero again but Babs is willing. That scene where she saved that couple during christmas really showed me that she is there to help people. Maybe she is trying to prove something to herself and maybe becoming Batgirl again is more of an outlet for her but I think she is on her way.

excuses, excuses, excuses.

victimgirl is victimgirl and nothing else

#80 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad: That is your opinion and I don't agree with it as we have discussed before.

#81 Posted by TheCowman (461 posts) - - Show Bio

@justjoking said:

And my interpretation of Cass is that, were she not under the influence of Batman, who forbids killing, she would not hesitate to kill, due to her past experiences.

This is incorrect.

Cass swore off killing long before she met Batman. Heck, she swore off killing the second after she killed that first guy.

Cassandra's ability is to read body language. This doesn't just allow her to predict your movements; it also lets her know what you are feeling or even thinking to an extent. When Cass killed that guy, she was still reading his body language. She "saw" his death from his perspective. Of all the Bat-Family, Cass would be near the top of the list of those who would NEVER kill.

#82 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCowman: I agree with you Cassandra would never kill of her own free will. Her first series showed that she was completely disgusted by what she had done.

#83 Edited by SupBatz (1705 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. It's really just in the execution that I feel the flaws lie. Sure, everything Gail has done in the Batgirl series can be justified. Babs did go through quite a trauma so one could pretty much justify her seeming rusty for the entire rest of her career if one wished to do so.

But the problem for me, as a reader, is the change in Babs being so drastic. Her going from confident, brilliant, and a great leader (pre-reboot) to appearing like a complete novice against every villain she encounters. On top of that, she seems a lot less intelligent. I get that Gail is going for a younger interpretation of Barbara but it's really disheartening, for me, to see just how de-matured she has been. Back before the New 52, if someone had told me that Babs was getting out of the chair, I'd have been incredibly excited. I'd have run tons of story ideas through my head - all of which showed Babs transition as a developmental and evolutionary process. I just don't feel that we've gotten that from New 52 Batgirl. So it's not that Gail's series is bad in itself. My problems with it lie soley in the fact that I grew up loving Babs as she once was and feel that the entire character has been uprooted and completely changed.

Of course, I realize that everyone has a different interpretation. And I respect yours. I do see the merits in Gail's Batgirl and am glad to hear its your favorite current series. It's just not for me right now. Maybe some day, when Simone brings Babs up a bit closer to where she once was.

Edit: Truth be told, I also miss seeing Steph in the role of Batgirl. I really feel like she didn't get her fair share of time behind the cowl. But that's beside the point when talking about Babs.

#84 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Barbara Gordon is the only Batgirl I love.

#85 Posted by TeamUnitedNerds (402 posts) - - Show Bio

Easily, Barbara is the best.

#86 Edited by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz: I do understand what you are saying. When you compare this version of Barbara to who she was as Oracle it can be a shock to your system. I actually really liked her as Oracle and Birds of Prey was awesome. I just really like her as Batgirl too. I enjoyed the Stephanie Brown Batgirl series and if they hadn't done the reboot I would still want Steph to be Batgirl if Babs was still Oracle.

#87 Posted by momo111191 (245 posts) - - Show Bio

yes i think so be i really only got into comics hardcore with the start of the new 52 :)

#88 Edited by Mercy_ (92635 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh, I don't know if I'd say she was the best. And I think it also depends on how you define 'best'. Most interesting? Most entertaining? Best fighter? Best overall Batgirl? There are so many different ways that it can be construed.

@supbatz said:

@charlieboy: Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. It's really just in the execution that I feel the flaws lie. Sure, everything Gail has done in the Batgirl series can be justified. Babs did go through quite a trauma so one could pretty much justify her seeming rusty for the entire rest of her career if one wished to do so.

But the problem for me, as a reader, is the change in Babs being so drastic. Her going from confident, brilliant, and a great leader (pre-reboot) to appearing like a complete novice against every villain she encounters. On top of that, she seems a lot less intelligent. I get that Gail is going for a younger interpretation of Barbara but it's really disheartening, for me, to see just how de-matured she has been. Back before the New 52, if someone had told me that Babs was getting out of the chair, I'd have been incredibly excited. I'd have run tons of story ideas through my head - all of which showed Babs transition as a developmental and evolutionary process. I just don't feel that we've gotten that from New 52 Batgirl. So it's not that Gail's series is bad in itself. My problems with it lie soley in the fact that I grew up loving Babs as she once was and feel that the entire character has been uprooted and completely changed.

Of course, I realize that everyone has a different interpretation. And I respect yours. I do see the merits in Gail's Batgirl and am glad to hear its your favorite current series. It's just not for me right now. Maybe some day, when Simone brings Babs up a bit closer to where she once was.

Edit: Truth be told, I also miss seeing Steph in the role of Batgirl. I really feel like she didn't get her fair share of time behind the cowl. But that's beside the point when talking about Babs.

This post is kind of perfect and pretty much exactly mirrors the way that I feel about it.

Moderator
#89 Posted by deaditegonzo (3683 posts) - - Show Bio

The Cassandra Cain version of Batgirl has the best costume...

She's the best. She's the only one who almost stands on their own credibility. She doesnt really need Batman's "rep" to make her bad a** and "frightening". She is also totally unique from all the Robins, unlike Babs, and seemed capable of eventually being at the same tier as Bats himself, unlike the others who are perpetually treated like his children.

#90 Edited by spidermonkey2099 (614 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, all three have had stories that I've really enjoyed (Cass- No Man's Land, Stephanie Brown- Miller's run just before New 52, and Barbara Gordon- Batman: TAS and Gail Simone's current run), so I'm not sure that I can pick one favorite. I really like all three characters. I just wish DC would bring back Cass and Steph as Black Bat and Spoiler and give them their own title. I think that would be an incredibly entertaining comic, and by doing that, DC would make their fans happy by bring back two beloved characters.

#91 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

Cassie Cain, rare to see a female that can kick so much ass and not being stereotypical (in a superhero sense)

Babs is the best oracle

Steph? shouldh've died with black mask before writers made her 'good' to read

#92 Posted by RustyRoy (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

Barbara Gordon is the only Batgirl I love.

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