Is Barbara Gordon the best Batgirl?

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#1 Edited by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio

Since the release of the new Batgirl series for The New 52, there has been tonnes of controversy over DC's choice to bring back Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. Who's you favorite Batgirl, and why?

#2 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8898 posts) - - Show Bio

My favorite Batgirl is Cassandra Cain. I always prefered Babs as Oracle.

#3 Posted by MrShway88 (660 posts) - - Show Bio

Cassandra Cain, all action and little words.

#4 Posted by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course, DC could have chosen to use the Cassandra Cain or Stephanie Brown versions of the character in the new series, as both would have taken the series in a different direction. For example, if Cass had returned to resume the Batgirl mantle, the series may have been written 'darker', with more violence and the mysteriousness that she emanates. I believe that DC made the right decision, choosing Barbara to return as Batgirl. For one, she has never had her own series, and it was about time DC featured her in her own ongoing series. Secondly, Barbara is a complex character, and needed to be explored further, which is bound to happen in this new series. Don't get me wrong, I think Barbara as Oracle was great, and I am a little disappointed that DC erased Oracle entirely from DC continuity, however I don't have an issue with Babs being healed. Yes, I think DC could have written a better series, incorporating Barbara as, for example, Oracle by day, Batgirl by night; but I still think that this series is fantastic. Not flawless, but pretty damn good.

Barbara Gordon is my favorite Batgirl. Whilst I like aspects of Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown, I believe that Barbara is, overall, the best character. In the new series, she has a naivety which I think is a really welcome change, considering that other members of the Bat Family, and the DC Universe as a whole, are generally overly serious. Babs, however, is young and naive, which makes her character, in my opinion, more believable. She's far from arrogant, but is not childish either. She is very mature, but is often overcome by emotion. In summary, Barbara is 'human', and for that reason I can easily relate to her, which is why I believe she is the best Batgirl.

#5 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

I like all of them in different ways...

#6 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

Cassie is da best and Babs is the worst.

#7 Edited by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio

The Cassandra Cain version of Batgirl has the best costume...

#8 Posted by Onemoreposter (4069 posts) - - Show Bio

@justjoking said:

The Cassandra Cain version of Batgirl has the best costume...

Yup. She's also the best Batgirl.

#9 Posted by confirukia (219 posts) - - Show Bio

nah i like Stephanie brown as batgirl

#10 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

Cassie cain

she a badass chick who does not rely on fanservice to be awesome

#11 Posted by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

she a badass chick

Cassandra Cain is almost inhuman - she is far too aggressive, and her assassin conditioning as a child drained her of her humanity, turning her into a killing machine. Sure, she may be 'badass', but she's also ruthless, whereas Barbara, being part of the Bat Family, is hesitant to kill, and uses her head rather than her fists.

#12 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@justjoking:

Hence why I like her. she's like a human batarang but better whereas the other two (robin/babs) serve as an achilles heel when batman is fighting a villain, batman gets the upper hand then suddenly the kids gets into hostage situation where bats has to free them. The world's greatest detective is not a babysitter, Cassie is most likely the ancestor of Karate Kid. There is many faces of batman, adam west personifies the gadget side (oracle/girl does that aspect), then there is the martial arts aspects which I liked before morrison changed that to prepmaster (hence why I like cassie more).

Unlike many of the kids she is not a 'martial artist' who relies on on-two punches but she also can do the flips and sh!t, just like why I like her and damian.

#13 Posted by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@justjoking:

She's like a human batarang but better whereas the other two (robin/babs) serve as an achilles heel when batman is fighting a villain, batman gets the upper hand then suddenly the kids gets into hostage situation where bats has to free them. The world's greatest detective is not a babysitter, Cassie is most likely the ancestor of Karate Kid.

In case you didn't realize, Barbara has her own series, and Batman has only featured in one issue (#6), and, as a matter of fact, it's when he's the victim of an attack, and guess who comes to the rescue? Barbara Gordon, a.k.a Batgirl. Sure, back in the 1960/70s, Barbara was merely a 'sidekick', but now she's evolved into a strong, independent and sophisticated vigilante, who is quite capable of taking on villains herself (eg. Mirror, in #4), rather than living in Batman's shadow.

#14 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@justjoking:

I was referring back to the early days when he's the martial arts guy or gadgets guy, before they made him prepper. She had to 'develop' to be strong, Cassie and Damien already are strong, with more room to develop character.

#15 Posted by Mercy_ (92857 posts) - - Show Bio

No, she's not

Moderator
#16 Edited by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@justjoking:

I was referring back to the early days when he's the martial arts guy or gadgets guy, before they made him prepper. She had to 'develop' to be strong, Cassie and Damien already are strong, with more room to develop character.

Actually, Cassandra Cain was 'developed' for her entire childhood, when her parents David Cain and Lady Shiva forced her to train as an assassin, isolating her for 'normal' life, depriving her of speech, remaining mute, being illiterate, and having limited social skills. Also, when she grew up, Cass asked her mother, Lady Shiva, who is often considered the most dangerous female assassin in the DC Universe, for training. So in fact, she was 'developed'; she was never strong to begin with, only she, unlike Barbara, had no option in her development - Barbara fights for justice, Cass fights to win - and kill.

#17 Edited by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@justjoking: I liked cassie, but beechen had to screw her up

Prefer born assassin to daddy's littler adventurer girl anytime

A weapon in practice and a sidekick in training

#18 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
Is Barbara Gordon the best Batgirl?

No, she's not even best as Batgirl. I would go so far as to say she's my least favorite as Batgirl, yet as Oracle she was absolutely unique in all of Superhero comics and was totally awesome in the pages of Birds of Prey.

My favorite Batgirl is Cassandra Cain.

#19 Posted by X9 (765 posts) - - Show Bio

Really, there's a Batgirl forum with that same topic.... ¬¬

#20 Posted by bloggerboy (609 posts) - - Show Bio

Barbara as Oracle.

Cassandra and Stephanie as Batgirls.

#21 Posted by The Stegman (25021 posts) - - Show Bio

I love them all equally for different reasons.

#22 Posted by goldenbat (13 posts) - - Show Bio

Cassandra is definitely a 'darker' Batgirl, due to her assassin upbringing, her illiteracy and being socially 'challenged'.

Stephanie is the weakest Batgirl, not physically, but as a character. She has no 'star qualities', and is too simply crafted, as far as a character is concerned.

Barbara is an interesting character, and has the strength to move past her injury, proving that she is not only strong physically, but mentally too, hence why I think Barbara is the best Batgirl. Oh, and she's the only Batgirl who fights in high-heels. You go girl!

What a trouper.

#23 Posted by War Killer (20343 posts) - - Show Bio
 Cassandra Cain is the best in my opinion
#24 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

Cass

#25 Posted by Joygirl (20060 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not very familiar with Cass so I will say Steph. Never crazy about Babs as Batgurl.

#26 Posted by goldenbat (13 posts) - - Show Bio

To all those people who love Cassandra Cain or Stephanie Brown, you're on the wrong forum. This is for fans of Barbara Gordon. Yes, Barbara was Oracle, but now she's Batgirl.

Again.

Get over it.

DC made her Batgirl, and if DC thinks removing Oracle from continuity and making Barbara Batgirl again, then I'm all for it.

Did I like Oracle? Yes.

Do I like Barbara as Batgirl? Yes

Can I change DC's decision? No

Can I make Barbara Oracle again? No

So why bother trying to change the unchangeable?

Anyway, Barbara's a pretty cool Batgirl. Just saying.

#27 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

No, but as Oracle she was a much better character anyways.

Batgirl is but one of his army, oracle was the backbone of his intelligence network, which is more impressive.

#28 Posted by goldenbat (13 posts) - - Show Bio

@Brazen_Intellect: When you say 'his', I presume you mean Batman... Either way, if you were wheelchair-bound, would you, if the opportunity arose, become mobile again? Would you fight crime, or play on computers. Nothing against Oracle, but you've got to sympathize a little with Barbara here. I mean, it's not like she hated being Oracle, but she would never have become Oracle had the Joker not paralyzed her. Of course she loved being Batgirl, and I think DC made the right decision, bringing her back as the girl in black and yellow.

#29 Posted by theteapot (8 posts) - - Show Bio

@goldenbat: I agree. Oracle was great, but Barbara didn't choose to become paralyzed. Becoming Oracle was coincidence, not choice, but Barbara did choose to be Batgirl and protect Gotham City against crime. So, though Oracle was great, if I were in charge of making decisions at DC, I would have made the same decision - to bring Barbara back as Batgirl. And @goldenbat is right - the black and yellow looks the best on Barbara. She's pretty hot...

#30 Edited by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio

@goldenbat said:

Barbara is the best Batgirl. She's the only Batgirl who fights in high-heels. What a trouper.

Cass, you were pretty good.

Steph, well...

Babs, you go girl!

#31 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

@goldenbat said:

@Brazen_Intellect: When you say 'his', I presume you mean Batman... Either way, if you were wheelchair-bound, would you, if the opportunity arose, become mobile again? Would you fight crime, or play on computers. Nothing against Oracle, but you've got to sympathize a little with Barbara here. I mean, it's not like she hated being Oracle, but she would never have become Oracle had the Joker not paralyzed her. Of course she loved being Batgirl, and I think DC made the right decision, bringing her back as the girl in black and yellow.

Regaining the ability to walk and becoming Batgirl again are two separate things. If I had my choice between the two roles I would be Oracle 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Yes there is the thrill that comes with being Batgirl and going toe to toe with the crazies, but the Oracle mantle was not only vital to Batman, but the Justice League and Justice Society as well.

Batgirl - Another foot soldier for Batman, just a lot better looking in tights

Oracle - Premier information broker in the DCU and coveted by all the big gun teams for her talents

Also as Oracle she was there to tutor Cass and Steph, two characters that better fit and needed the role of Batgirl for their own self worth far more than Babs did. Yes she was crippled by the Joker, but from that she became an even bigger factor in the DCU out of that very same wheelchair. I really do not mind if they let her walk again (the tech must be available to her allies in the DCU anyways) but making her Batgirl again seems like a step back and a demotion from the stature she had before.

#32 Posted by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio

@Brazen_Intellect: Firstly, what's so great about Stephanie Brown? I personally think she was boring and uninteresting. That's just my opinion though. Secondly, Barbara was great as Oracle. There's no denying it. But DC made the choice to make Barbara the New 52 Batgirl. Nobody can change that, so seriously, move on. To all those Barbara as Batgirl haters, you're on the wrong forum.

#33 Posted by SupBatz (1778 posts) - - Show Bio

@justjoking: Wrong forum? I hardly think so. This is the Barbara Gordon forum, voicing an opinion is perfectly valid and I'm growing quite tired of the constant: "If you don't like Babs as Oracle then move on" comments.

To say that "DC made the decision and we can't change it so just move on" defeats the whole purpose of being a fan and having an opinion.

Personally, I think Simone is a pretty good writer and I like her series. Doesn't mean that I wouldn't rather have Babs as Oracle. And doesn't mean that I or anybody else should not be able to express that opinion.

#34 Posted by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz: Good point. This is the Barbara Gordon forum, so Oracle fans should still participate. What I meant to say is that as fans, we can't change what DC does or doesn't choose to publish. They have chosen Barbara to be the new Batgirl, and that's that. Personally, I love the new series, but I can totally understand why other fans preferred Barbara as Oracle. What I'm trying to say is that DC is in control, so fans should accept DC's decisions. I never said people shouldn't voice their opinions, only that they should accept Barbara as Batgirl, as that's who she is now. Not Oracle, Batgirl. That's just how it is.

#35 Posted by danhimself (22624 posts) - - Show Bio

@justjoking said:

@Rumble Man said:

@justjoking:

I was referring back to the early days when he's the martial arts guy or gadgets guy, before they made him prepper. She had to 'develop' to be strong, Cassie and Damien already are strong, with more room to develop character.

Actually, Cassandra Cain was 'developed' for her entire childhood, when her parents David Cain and Lady Shiva forced her to train as an assassin, isolating her for 'normal' life, depriving her of speech, remaining mute, being illiterate, and having limited social skills. Also, when she grew up, Cass asked her mother, Lady Shiva, who is often considered the most dangerous female assassin in the DC Universe, for training. So in fact, she was 'developed'; she was never strong to begin with, only she, unlike Barbara, had no option in her development - Barbara fights for justice, Cass fights to win - and kill.

why do you keep saying that Cass fights to kill or you imply earlier that she's not hesitant to kill? Cass has only ever killed one person and she was 8 years old at the time, was ordered to by her father, and was disgusted by what she had done and hasn't killed anyone since

#36 Posted by X9 (765 posts) - - Show Bio

Some underrate Babs potential and importance as Batgirl and it's unfair.

I've never seen her being part of so much action, and it's only the beggining of the New 52, she has still a lot to do.

I can't wait to see how the Death of the Family arc is gonna be for her. Pretty sure it'll be amazing...

#37 Posted by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself:

@justjoking said:

why do you keep saying that Cass fights to kill or you imply earlier that she's not hesitant to kill? Cass has only ever killed one person and she was 8 years old at the time, was ordered to by her father, and was disgusted by what she had done and hasn't killed anyone since

Yes, she only killed someone when she was younger, but as a child, your parents have a massive influence upon you, and being ordered to kill another human by your father would stay with you forever. Cass was forever haunted by the murder she committed, and hence was a much more conflicted Batgirl. Sure, this made Cass an interesting character, but, as far as being a character is concerned, she never really developed or progressed, similarly to Stephanie Brown. What I mean to say is that Cass is conflicted by her past, as Barbara is haunted by her paralysis, and the events that occurred in their pasts encourage them and drive them to be the people who they are and the decisions they make. And my interpretation of Cass is that, were she not under the influence of Batman, who forbids killing, she would not hesitate to kill, due to her past experiences.

#38 Posted by goldenbat (13 posts) - - Show Bio

@X9 said:

Some underrate Babs' potential and importance as Batgirl and it's unfair.

I've never seen her being part of so much action, and it's only the beginning of the New 52, she has still a lot to do.

I can't wait to see how the Death of the Family arc is gonna be for her. Pretty sure it'll be amazing...

This is so true. People haven't given Babs the opportunity to prove how amazing she is; when you consider it, New 52 has only been running for a year, and in that year, Barbara's fought and/or defeated multiple enemies, including; Mirror, Grotesque, Gretel and Knightfall. Also, she's teamed up with Nightwing, Batwoman and Catwoman (in the upcoming issue #13), as well as the World's Greatest Detective, Batman himself! Now isn't that an impressive resumé?

If people give her a chance and keep buying the series, it'll continue to be published for many years, and people will finally see the true awesomeness of Barbara Gordon, a.k.a BATGIRL!!!

#39 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8898 posts) - - Show Bio

@justjoking said:

Cassandra Cain is almost inhuman - she is far too aggressive, and her assassin conditioning as a child drained her of her humanity, turning her into a killing machine. Sure, she may be 'badass', but she's also ruthless, whereas Barbara, being part of the Bat Family, is hesitant to kill, and uses her head rather than her fists.

That's just not true. She was very human, a broken person who needed to heal. Her introduction started there and it kept being explored. That scene in no man's land with the flashbacks and she simply whispers "stop" as she tackles her father off the side of a building because she is haunted by all the murders she was forced to commit. Or those times where she struggled to speak and even just understand basic things yet tried so hard to. Those moments with Bruce where she smiled at the simplest things. Yet at the same time how her devotion to Bruce was really second to none to the point she could have destroyed herself to impress him as Babs said as Oracle "You have to talk to her Bruce. She worships you, she doesn't even think your human. She's going to kill herself trying to impress you. She thinks your name is batman"

Cass was the best batgirl.

#40 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

@goldenbat said:

This is so true. People haven't given Babs the opportunity to prove how amazing she is; when you consider it, New 52 has only been running for a year, and in that year, Barbara's fought and/or defeated multiple enemies, including; Mirror, Grotesque, Gretel and Knightfall. Also, she's teamed up with Nightwing, Batwoman and Catwoman (in the upcoming issue #13), as well as the World's Greatest Detective, Batman himself! Now isn't that an impressive resumé?

If people give her a chance and keep buying the series, it'll continue to be published for many years, and people will finally see the true awesomeness of Barbara Gordon, a.k.a BATGIRL!!!

Actually, that's a soliciting mistake. Catwoman is appearing in the Batgirl Annual, not issue #13

#41 Edited by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio

It sounds like people who have doubted Barbara's ability as Batgirl may soon be 'converted' to Team Barbara, considering Batgirl will be seeking revenge against the Joker: the man who changed her life forever. This is what Batgirl author Gail Simone had to say about the upcoming Death of the Family arc, and Batgirl's role within the story. I'm not sure about you, but I can't wait for the upcoming issue #13...

"Her payback is long, long overdue. It was immensely cathartic. It's a brutal story: The Joker is the guy who haunts your nightmares, and he nearly destroyed Barbara once already."

Read more at http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/rorschachsrants/news/?a=68402#IuCEKThzHM6VodgH.99

#42 Posted by justjoking (14 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Edited by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

@justjoking:

@Ravager4 said:

Actually, that's a soliciting mistake. Catwoman is appearing in the Batgirl Annual, not issue #13

Did you miss that part?

EDIT: To help clarify, I'll let Gail Simone explain:

Anonymous asked: Hello Gail, can you clarify something about Batgirl 13. The solicit for 13 said that it concludes knightfall plus talon and catwoman appear but the preview today says that it will be prologue to death of the family in addition of concluding the Knightfall arc. How is knightfall, talon,catwoman, batwoman and the prologue all going to fit in one issue? Did you and DC decide to keep the talon and catwoman appearance in the annual?

Gah, sounds like another solicit screw-up. Catwoman and Talon appear in the Batgirl ANNUAL, not in issue thirteen. Apologies, I have no idea who wrote that solicit. But I’ll find out.

#44 Edited by goldenbat (13 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ravager4: Wow. Wiki's wrong...

@justjoking said:

It sounds like people who have doubted Barbara's ability as Batgirl may soon be 'converted' to Team Barbara, considering Batgirl will be seeking revenge against the Joker: the man who changed her life forever. This is what Batgirl author Gail Simone had to say about the upcoming Death of the Family arc, and Batgirl's role within the story. I'm not sure about you, but I can't wait for the upcoming issue #13...

"Her payback is long, long overdue. It was immensely cathartic. It's a brutal story: The Joker is the guy who haunts your nightmares, and he nearly destroyed Barbara once already."

Read more at http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/rorschachsrants/news/?a=68402#IuCEKThzHM6VodgH.99

Can't wait for the Batgirl Death of the Family tie-in #15! Who has Joker planned for Batgirl to marry? Nightwing? Batman? Or Joker himself? So excited!

#45 Posted by Video_Martian (5645 posts) - - Show Bio

Not really a huge Batgirl fan but I've always liked Barbara. From what I've heard from fans the best Batgirl is Cassie.

#46 Posted by sunofdarkchild (13 posts) - - Show Bio

She may be the 'first,' but Cass is by far the best crimefighter of the three, and Steph is the one with the most effect on Gotham as a whole. Babs as Batgirl is just another person in a bat suit.

And in the 60s/70s she was more than that. She was a congresswoman who teamed up with Superman and dated Clark Kent. By the end of the 70s they had deaged her in order to ship her with Robin.

#47 Posted by theteapot (8 posts) - - Show Bio

@goldenbat said:

Can't wait for the Batgirl Death of the Family tie-in #15! Who has Joker planned for Batgirl to marry? Nightwing? Batman? Or Joker himself? So excited!

I can't wait for #15 - should be called Wedding in the Family, can't wait to see what'll happen...

Hopefully Babs marries Joker, and beats the crap out of him.

That's karma, Mr J.

#48 Posted by goldenbat (13 posts) - - Show Bio

The New 52 Batgirl series hasn't been totally amazing, but it sure has been consistently good. Very good, actually. With the exception of issue #6, which I'm sure fans of the series have attempted to erase from their memory, the series has been scoring reviews on IGN ranging from 7/10 to 9/10. The series is far from a flop, and I think that, give it time, Babs will step up and fulfill the role of Batgirl. Or course she won't appeal to everyone, but for those who are sitting on the fence, debating whether or not to continue reading or even start the series, I strongly recommend you support Barbara and buy #13, which is sure to be a killer issue. Joker's coming back soon, but first, Barbara must defeat Knightfall. Then, in issue #15, Joker has a wedding planned for Barbara... perhaps for himself to be the groom? Maybe she'll give him a taste of his own medicine? We'll just have to wait to find out!

Love you Babs!

#49 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1801 posts) - - Show Bio

If I were writing Batgirl, I would have set it up like this...

Barbara is still Oracle, and she serves as sort of a "general" for Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown. Basically, Cass and Steph would both be Batgirl, they could share the responsibility and more easily juggle the masked persona with personal lives, and it would make it harder for anyone to figure out Batgirl's secret identity. Barbara is in constant communication with them, providing advice, information, etc.

I think it'd make for a pretty great book.

#50 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio
@Imagine_Man15 problem with that is that DC editorial never would have let it pass. They're the ones that made those changes, not the writer. Simone has stated multiple times that she misses Steph and Cass and would bring them back in a heartbeat if she could.

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