Off My Mind: Comic Characters Having Affairs

As long as there's a rating system in place to allow parents to supervise what their children are reading, I don't have a problem with it. If you're an older reader and you don't want to read about these sorts of things, well, the ratings are there for you, too. Comic books are art, and art is influenced by life. Most comic book characters do try to have as "normal" a life as possible when they're not saving the universe, and that means having relationships with others. "Real" people get married, cheat, get divorced, etc; if you want your medium to reflect reality, you include that. 
 
Although yeah, the Norman thing couldn't have been creepier if he'd been wearing a thong made of hissing cockroaches.

" that green goblin panel is creepy as hell "

""

  I always find it funny when someone tries to see logic with comic universe rules. lol Of course they make some of the characters cheat to show a bit of realism because divorce and cheating are things we pretty much see on a daily basis through the news, friend or family connections movies, tv, etc.. 
 
  They have other weird rules like the one where friends turned enemies then patch things up when things go bad between them like new as fast as they can afterwords.
  Take the Hulk/Banner for an example of this and yes I'm serious so read my writing out. lol The Illuminati took it upon themselves to banish the Hulk from Earth on their own thinking they have the right to control everything but then an accident happens and World War Hulk is the result. After that Banner is seen all chummy with the very people that tried to exile him like nothing had happened as some even think they deserve apologies from him. (This in my opinion was the worst thing they could have done.)
 
  Wonder where I'm going with this well if you think of it during this Banner was technically cheating on Betty who was still alive without his knowledge with his Queen on another planet. Can this be called cheating? In my opinion no since the whole "death do us part" was fulfilled at the time.  Did the writers think of this? Maybe or maybe not.  Some of them could have the whole hit the ground running from the idea's they come up with attitude and don't think of the future ramifications or maybe they do but see it just as a story.

The characters we love to read about have lasted as long as they have because they've grown with their audience. Most childrens entertainment comes and goes. Will Ben Ten still be airing new episodes in ten, twenty or, as in the case of most of the big name superheroes, forty years? I'd guess no. 

I enjoy comics as entertainment and a story telling medium and welcome more grown up stories. Just as long as the depiction of the story doesn't become too explicit I've got no problem,

It happens in Real life, why not comics?
Parents don't want there kids to read about hard things like this and divorce, but thats why there are ratings on comics. 
Comics are not just for kids anymore and adults and teenagers like to have stories that they can relate to. Unfortuently cheating is something very relatible in every ones lives, why not talk about it in comics?

" "All the young X-Men had the hots for Jean". lol  I agree with all of these points, G-Man. The reason they did this to Scott was to build his fan base because he wasn't edgy enough. It's completely against everything his character previously did or said. And as for the whole Norman deal that's just sick nasty.  I think that affairs AND divorces should happen occasionally in comics, but never shown and never as just a thing that happens. The writers should use them the same way they use anything else: a lesson. Terrible stuff happens, both in comics and the real world. They have an outlet here. They should be telling people this is wrong and painting pictures of the mess that happens when it does. As far as I know, Scott and Emma are now a happy couple. That isn't right. Jean should come back as Phoenix and then destroy them in fiery vengeance. "

I get the fact comics may still be seen as a kids medium but for now the buying power is from adults. Affairs, divorces marriages are all just the parts that make up the melodrama of the stories. I'm fine with them as long as their used to advance a character and tell a good story, rather than sell a spider man web made garter. I'm willing to go along with any story as long as it's good....and doesn't have clones. I hate clones. 

A heroe's life is very short and I think They don't wan't to die with regets or someting like that.

I don't think it's an issue that needs to take how the kids will feel into account.  Comics these days are insanely violent and graphic.  If they're already reading that, mature themes like marriage, divorce, or affairs aren't major steps up.  Is it necessary?  Not really.  It adds drama, but sometimes writers also risk turning stories into a soap opera, and I'm not sure how many want to see that in their comics.

It does add a certain sort of realism

Well seeing how like many marriages end in divorce now days, i don't really see how people could say that it's bad to see it in a comic.

how ironic you question whether sexuality is needed in comics rather then excessive violence? how puritan.  no prob showing a zombie rip the heart out of someone but someone shtuping his sons girlfriend rings bells??? really? 

Cheating makes them seem more human and flawed. I like that interesting dynamic. Green arrow cheated repeatedly, hes still a good guy, but still a man that thinks with his other head.  that makes him more believable and more approachable then boy scout superman.  

people need to get over the comics are for kids thing. Lets face it kids today deal with divorce, infidelity,sexuality, and everything else in their real lives (they go to school dont they). i dotn think its anything they dont see on tv or in their house.  
besides, comics havent really been for kids since the 90s. there are lines of comics just for kids like Tiny Titans,superfreinds if they want 2 dimensional fluff.  
i commend the writers for adding a more mature layer to these characters that have grown up with the readers.        

Yeah no... 
Cheating and getting Divorces are very sensitive topics....

I feel that when they introduce the affair idea it usually feels forced or something, trying to make the character more than just a boring guy like Scott.  His mind affair with emma (and psyclocke before that) just seemed like they were trying to make him more interesting.  But it just makes a character a jerk in my opinion.  Making characters horrible people doesn't make them more human or interesting to me.  Sure things like this happen, people can be abusive, have affairs, or whatever, but sometimes a little of this goes too far.  And sometimes it seems like every character is a jerk.  That's why I liked how they broke up MJ and Peter.  Even till Mephisto broke them up and made them forget they were married they still loved each other.  They didn't get divorced, no one had an affair.
I get that they are trying to make some characters different, and not always honorable, but they don't have to make them bad people.  Its like Hank Pym hitting Janet, there are some things a character can't recover from.

Certainly in some cases it makes sense, but a lot of it is a cash grab, exploiting fanboys' (and fangirls') interest in seeing their characters as close to naked as possible.
 
Personally, I'm sick of nearly every character sleeping with one another.  Maybe I'm just moralistic, but there has to be some kind of line.  All the couples who are happily together shouldn't go their separate ways just to fuck everyone within the vicinity of the fictional universe.  For every dark cloud there's a silver lining, and for mainstream comics there appears to be next-to-no silver lining.  Some people are always faithful to their spouse...and that is realistic.  Maybe it's not all, or even most, but they exist and should be represented.  Different races, creeds, and beliefs are represented throughout the Marvel and DC universes, but the one that says "No, I'm in love and won't cheat" is much rarer here than in our own, non-fictional world that this is all supposed to be loosely based on.
 
edit: Even if it's not official "cheating", I think they all randomly date each other way too much, especially when the relationship is all about the physical contact and essentially nothing else.  Call me old-fashioned, whatever, but it's true that less real people do that than you'd think.  Someone earlier mentioned that the divorce rate is 1 in 3, which is accurate.  But in the Marvel universe, the divorce rate is 3 in 3.  It's purposefully overemphasized to look "mature".  Only children (or those with minds of children) are so concerned with becoming an adult.  If violence makes sense with the context, let it be.  If violence doesn't make sense with the context, don't write it.  If sex makes sense with the context, let it be.  But don't force it if  it betrays a character or story.

I think it should be mentioned as side story in the future but shouldn't appear in the main comics. They should keep their focus on the fictional stuff of heroes and villains, not trying to include in between especially comics like Marvel or DC. It just doesn't fit in to what makes these stories so great. The whole Norman and Gwen Stacy thing is something that should have never came up in Spiderman comics.

"Green Arrow's affair with Shado when he was still doing the on-and-offs with Black Canary.  Deathstroke's affair with Lilian Worth while he was still married.  And then there's Jade, who ends pretty much every one of her relationships with an affair.  Divorces?  Jean Loring and Atom's is now one of DC's most notorious divorces.  Kingpin and his wife have gone through a number of events that seem like divorce, but frequently end up being something else."

There was nothing wrong with spiderman being married and having a child... thats called building up where im from. In My opinion thats what all comics need to start doing, building up characters letting them age and have families and in some cases die. I think spider girl hit it up with a lot of the younger audience and they could of had a character like that in mainstream marvel.. Though this might just be my thinking cause im getting older. Still I like comics where the characters age with me and thats what I like about spiderman till they rebooted his a@@!

There was nothing wrong with spiderman being married and having a child... thats called building up where im from. In My opinion thats what all comics need to start doing, building up characters letting them age and have families and in some cases die. I think spider girl hit it up with a lot of the younger audience and they could of had a character like that in mainstream marvel.. Though this might just be my thinking cause im getting older. Still I like comics where the characters age with me and thats what I like about spiderman till they rebooted his a@@!

It's ok as long as there are ratings on the cover of the books and as long as it's not too sexually graphic for those books that are made for youngsters.

I think it makes it more realistic.  But it probably isn't the best example to set for kids.  These days though, I think most kids read manga.

Forget the kids. Make it interesting.

" Forget the kids. Make it interesting. "

Everybody loves a good love triangle.
 
Bitches be trippin.

all those things can be explained. lois wanted the hero screw the zero, cyclops just traded up who can blame him :p, scarlet witch just wanted the real thing :p,  AND NORMAN OSBORN IS THE ****IN MAN XD!!!

" "All the young X-Men had the hots for Jean". lol  I agree with all of these points, G-Man. The reason they did this to Scott was to build his fan base because he wasn't edgy enough. It's completely against everything his character previously did or said. And as for the whole Norman deal that's just sick nasty.  I think that affairs AND divorces should happen occasionally in comics, but never shown and never as just a thing that happens. The writers should use them the same way they use anything else: a lesson. Terrible stuff happens, both in comics and the real world. They have an outlet here. They should be telling people this is wrong and painting pictures of the mess that happens when it does. As far as I know, Scott and Emma are now a happy couple. That isn't right. Jean should come back as Phoenix and then destroy them in fiery vengeance. "

 Considering we have some comics where most of the population of  a city or country are completely wiped-out, I don't really think divorce/ cheating is a big deal.  Especially in a comic like New X-Men (the one with the cheating and mass deaths, not the one with kids lol), which was definitely NOT aimed for younger audiences.   
 
I think that some attempts should be made to make sure that some comics are aimed for a younger audience, but at the same time, have some with more adult themes.  Like there is no way X-Force could be done in a way for a younger audience, but something like Avengers Academy?  Make it for kids.
 
I think its awesome that comics are putting topics like cheatings, homosexuality, relationships, etc into comics.  They are doing it in such a way that it isn't jamming it down our throat, and it makes the comics seem a little more 'real'.      

Well it happens in real life. Ignoring the fact that it exists isn't right. Besides, Emma is better than Jean anyway.

That whole "Gwen Stacy-Goblin-thing NEEDS to be retconned... NOW! It is one of the worst things to ever be written into spider-man beside One More Day

Norman is man. Not only did he get Peter's girl and then kill her, he took Harry's too :P

Just because I can handle a topic doesn't mean I enjoy it. There's nothing like infidelity to make me dislike a character.

" that green goblin panel is creepy as hell "

" Well it happens in real life. Ignoring the fact that it exists isn't right. Besides, Emma is better than Jean anyway. "

Well, For readers that have been reading comics for most of their life I don't think 'affairs' should really be seen in comics. Because, not all parents have the same rules for their kids. They will let them read whatever. So I think because of how most parents don't take care of their children and watch out for what they read, I think that 'affairs' and other things shouldn't be shown until parents show more consideration for their children.

" @grimm said:

" Well it happens in real life. Ignoring the fact that it exists isn't right. Besides, Emma is better than Jean anyway. "

It does happen in real life, but not to the extent that Marvel and DC portray it for quick sales of people who want to whack off to the near-naked people. 1 in 3 people.  Not 3 in 3 people. "

There is a fine line when showing relationships and their effects in comics. While its certainly OK and common to show flirtation and romance to a degree, when the darker side of relationships come to the front it becomes more difficult to display. The balance is about having stories that the younger readers will enjoy without being too explicit, and at the same time having there for the older readers with a more refined dramatic palate. In a way it is easier to show the death of a character rather than a relationship gone bad. If a character dies in a comic, well that happens from time to time. If a relationship in comics goes wrong you rarely see anything more than arguments. Rarely would you see fights, affairs or abuse. I think this is mainly due to the fact that comics are still reguarded as a entertainment medium for children. Personally i think this argument needs to be rethought.

Affairs happen.  They are a normal part of life and if comics and supposed to mimic life somewhat, it is inevitable that some characters cheat.
As far as the underage argument goes; I started reading comics at 10 yrs old.  A pretty common age I think for a kid to start reading a little more adult content.  I already knew about divorce and affairs by that time.  It wasn't something that would have destroyed my young psyche.
Once again I think its just a question of adults forgetting that children have brains and can think.  We often portray them as mindless little animals that will suck up any influence put in front of them, forgetting that the influences are there already due to school, TV and the actions of other adults.

" Just because I can handle a topic doesn't mean I enjoy it. There's nothing like infidelity to make me dislike a character. "

The people making comments about the morality of it seem to be missing the point. 
  
The article asks whether cheating makes for a better character (or characterization) and while it certainly makes more more distinct characterization it isn't necessarily better.  This can be for two reasons: 1) Because the contravenes the underlying nature of the character or 2) The execution is dull and generic. 
 
In case #1, people are raising the false dichotomy of violence or puritan values when that's not the issue... the issue is the historical nature of the character.  With respect to violence ALL mainstream superheroes are essentially violent.  Even the paragon of virtue, Superman, debuted smashing cars and heads as a resolution to conflict.  Violence is in his very nature and wholly consistent with his character.  That's not a puritan thing, a hypocrisy, or immaturity that's simply historical fact.  The question then is whether a permanent change in character is warranted, justifiable, or tolerable. 
 
That's ANY change.  Domestic violence, drug addiction, race, gender, sexual orientation, origin, costume, nationality, powers, etc.  For large number of mainstream heroes you can't get away with those changes while respecting the past or future writers. 
 
In case #2, cheating doesn't necessarily improve characterization because it's common, pervasive, and mundane.  I find it hilarious that people are saying they want that "reality" in their comics when the staple of superhero comics is washboard abs, daily adventure, and perpetual violence.  If we're going to inject the dysfunction of reality then our heroes would simply be couch potatoes, overweight, and completely locked down by government sanction.  Instead of "heroes" the characters are more like celebrities to be torn down and deconstructed by reader voyeurs.  Rather, fictional entertainment should be hyper-real which is why intense romance and fidelity are compelling for some characters AND extreme dysfunction and infidelity drama is worth reading. 
 
The Cyke-Emma-Jean business is compelling NOT because it's realistic- far from it (when's the last time you heard of a psychic virtual affair?)- but because it was a last ditch effort to inject interest into an otherwise dull, imperfect (given Jean's affairs with Wolvie), and undefined relationship between Cyke & Jean (contrast: Jean dies, Cyke moves on to her clone... Lois dies, Superman combs the universe, searches heaven and hell, until he can resurrect her a millennium later).  If anything, the Cyke/Jean relationship was real... and thus real dull.
 
It should go with the character and it should, at least, be interesting.

It is a small part in what makes comics realistic and grounded in some semblance of reality. Same as when characters die, innocents are hurt, property destroyed, terrorists, and the like. It all helps it be more realistic and grounded in reality. Similarly, when characters are homosexual in comics by no means is it necessary to any story, but it makes them more interesting due to the social commentary and realistic implications. I think adultery is the same; it has depths of commentary and implications. It speaks to people in ways that aliens and bright costumes can't.

Yes, this is completely necessary!
Superheroes are supposed to be able to 'relate' to their audience. We all want to see a fragile side to their lives, and showing  affairs are a much needed part of that.
 
Affairs happen all the time, everywhere, so I like that they deal with real issues. And unfortunately, Fathers do sleep with their childrens girlfriends,  it does happen.