papad1992's forum posts

#1 Posted by papad1992 (6832 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

That Jubilee was turned into a vampire around the time all the Twilight's and all came out was an obvious gimmick. I think that is what irritates people. There should be no need to jump on the bandwagon. The Xmen comics should set the trend not follow it

I agree. However, the X-Men comics have jumped on bandwagons before using gimmicks to create characters:

  • Dazzler - created during the end of the disco era, with powers designed to work alongside a real-life singer that would have the same performing name and etc., which ultimately fell through before the deal was completed.
  • Cable/Shatterstar/Anyone-With-Big-Shoulderpads-Plus-Big-Guns/Swords - created during an era when certain artists in the 90s popularized Big Everything...big hair, big muscles, body armor, and obsessive focuses on Xtreme superheroes with Rambo-like combat abilities.
  • Magik - One of my favorites, but she was created during a time when magic and demonic possession was somewhat of a thing. It had been years since "The Exorcist", but there were a lot of movies about demons and magic at the time. I also think that's why her magical abilities have never really been integrated into the X-Men mythos - they've generally been accepted, but except for occasional spell usage, her magic usage was strict limited to Limbo for the most part. There were also other heroes associated with magic during this time period - Kulan Gath became associated with the X-Men during this time (he was an older Conan character, though), Jennifer Kale, Magali Szardos, and Dr. Druid were active around this time period as well with at least three crossover events prominently focused around magic (the Atlantis Attacks, Inferno, and the one where Manhattan was transformed into an island like one you'd find in Conan).
  • Mirage/Thunderbird/Thunderbird II - This is interesting because there was a fascination with Native Americans at the time, that seems to have completely faded away from our pop culture memory. This was the time period when the commercial with the crying Native American, when celebs would dress up in the ethnic jewelry or clothing as a fashion statement, and etc.
  • Dust - it's not a surprise, given the above, that Marvel writers thought it would be edgy to create a visibly Muslim character during a time period where they were (and still are) marginalized by some parts of the American population.
  • Karma - her background was partially a result of more attention being paid to the aftermath of the Vietnam war. Unfortunately, because this dates the character by tying her to a specific time period, it's hard to reconcile that with her apparent age compared to her teammates and the fact that she hasn't aged since, while some of her teammates are young adults. Current writers don't really focus on her origins.
  • Luke Cage and Misty Knight - created during an era where blacksploitation films were still in vogue; both characters were meant to personify the image of street smart, African Americans from the inner city (moreso for Cage), and cash in on the lingo, style of dress, and inner city problems faced during that time. There was even a story where Storm first met them, and Luke had to explain the street problems he fought against to her (not much of a stretch considering she spent most of her life in Africa).

The question is whether some of these characters were created because of the fads, or if interesting parts of this background legitimately inspired their creation. It's not always so clear.

I like this debrief analysis! Great job! You should do a whole blog centered around characters created in result of popular culture's transition and flow from one bandwagon to the next!

#2 Posted by papad1992 (6832 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

@papad1992 said:

Here are mine:

1) Academy X/New X-Men by Kyle and Yost

2) X-Factor by PAD

3) Uncanny X-Force by Remender

4) X-Force by Kyle and Yost

5) Uncanny X-Men up to Messiah Complex

6) X-Men by Austen then Carey

7) Ultimate Comics X-Men by Spencer and Wood

8) X-treme X-Men by Claremont

9) Astonishing X-Men by Whedon

10) X-Men Legacy by Carey

Uncanny X-Men had a lot of writers before the Messiah Complex story arc.

They had Joe Casey,Chuck Austen, Chris Claremont andEd Brubaker. Can you confirm which series from these writers that you like.

@cutter said:

@papad1992 said:

Here are mine:

1) Academy X/New X-Men by Kyle and Yost

2) X-Factor by PAD

3) Uncanny X-Force by Remender

4) X-Force by Kyle and Yost

5) Uncanny X-Men up to Messiah Complex

6) X-Men by Austen then Carey

7) Ultimate Comics X-Men by Spencer and Wood

8) X-treme X-Men by Claremont

9) Astonishing X-Men by Whedon

10) X-Men Legacy by Carey

Here are mine as well...lol...This...

Hey cutter, you also agree with @papad1992 can you confirm which series too.

Well I'd say from about issue #390 or so to Messiah Complex (around 2001) that's when I started back into X-Men comics. So from there till Messiah Complex. After then, it's all downhill from there :(

#3 Posted by papad1992 (6832 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Posted by papad1992 (6832 posts) - - Show Bio

@papad1992: If you're still interested I'll give it a shot.

Wow it's been three years... I'd still love to see the characters come to life. Go for it!

#5 Posted by papad1992 (6832 posts) - - Show Bio
@adamtrmm said:

@oldnightcrawler said:

With the exception of Dust (who had been around longer) and maybe Surge, most of the New X-men were Sprites and Shark-girls until Childhood's End. And, while I don't have any particular attachment to most of Aaron's characters, most of them haven't been around that long or written by anyone but him, both of which made all the difference for the New X-men, who actually had their own book to be developed in.

Did you read pre-K/Y NXM? New Mutants v.2 and the first 20 issues of Academy X? Because, man you're wrong. They started being developed since their very first appearance, unlike those unimaginative abominations (sprite, shark, eye etc) that are remaining redundant backgrounds. Even those who died are the better characters with their limited appearances, because of those pre-K/Y developments. I really don't understand why would you compare them at all.

Aaron's characters (and his other pets) had almost 50 issues of WATXM to be developed, just a little less than NXM.

THANK YOU adamtrmm!!!!!

#6 Posted by papad1992 (6832 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok so I have a few variants...

Either:

Husk, Dani Moonstar, and Pixie

or

Sage, Wolfsbane, and Dust

or

Mercury, Dazzler, and Stacy X (bring her back... she's the "edge" the team really needs)

#7 Posted by papad1992 (6832 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: You bring up some valid points but still, those New X-Men characters flourished due to good writing and great stories. Quire and Genesis I gave the exception to, and Oya and Broo are characters I can't stand, along with Shark Girl, Sprite, and all of those other transparent characters. They are not enticing, not even remotely interesting. Characters like Anole and Pixie played the roles of background fillers since their inception but were never cannon fodder. They were developed into becoming amazing characters full of depth, perspective, and meaning. They continued along their paths of development throughout two books while these newer characters have done nothing but fill the background and act as cannon fodder. It's all due to bad writing, the characters represent and mirror what the writers put into them. That's why they're boring, exhausting, and dull.

#8 Edited by papad1992 (6832 posts) - - Show Bio

@papad1992 said:

New X-Men: Academy X was the book to bring me back to X-Men full time... I was floating around reading different books here and there from different publishers, but this series is what reeled me back in. I loved all of the deep relationships, well-developed characters, and endless drama and guilt... it was the perfect X-book in my opinion. And now what do we have?? Wolverine and the X-Men is crap, always has been always will be because their characters, except for a couple, are all transparent canonfodder and background throw-aways.

Disagree.

1. While Aaron's WatX-men was mostly not that great, it wasn't all bad either and Latour's book has been mostly pretty great so far.

2. The main cast of Latour's Wolverine & the X-Men has mostly been Quire, Oya, Storm, and Wolverine, with Armor, Eye-boy, Doop, and a bunch of the New X-Men. So other than giving Armor, Oya, and Eye-boy some page time, it's mostly a pretty seasoned lineup.

3. At least half of the characters that people associate with New X-Men at this point were background characters for at least a few years before they were given focus in that book and won people's hearts. Any character can be good and any character can be fodder, especially when they're new; I really don't see what makes the new characters in WatX-men any different from what the New X-men were when they were first introduced.

Those New X-Men characters became so loved because of their intense depth-driven characterization. They endured such development from watching their depowered classmates get blown-up right in front of them to nearly escaping the grasps of a mutant-hungry Predator X to enduring the harsh environment of Limbo and the Darkchilde. What can be said of these "new" x-characters that have been introduced? The New X-Men's characterization evolved from many stories and issue-to-issue development, while these newer characters have had this WaTXM book for awhile now and nothing significant has occurred to make me fall completely and utterly in love or enthralled by their characters. The writing has been transparent and lack-lusting since its inception. If anything, Quire has stepped up to the plate, evolved into a pretty cool character and Genesis has always interested me, but that's it. Those two character's weren't even introduced in WaTXM.

@squares said:

@papad1992 said:

New X-Men: Academy X was the book to bring me back to X-Men full time... I was floating around reading different books here and there from different publishers, but this series is what reeled me back in. I loved all of the deep relationships, well-developed characters, and endless drama and guilt... it was the perfect X-book in my opinion. And now what do we have?? Wolverine and the X-Men is crap, always has been always will be because their characters, except for a couple, are all transparent canonfodder and background throw-aways.

I want to see the next step in evolution for these characters... Let them form their own team and go off on adventures and explorations as the next generation. G-d knows they've had enough schooling.

See, I can agree WatX(m?) is crap, but it's the awful writing and genuinely horrible execution of said ideas that made it horrible.

Exactly... I'm glad you agree. The book is crap and has been crap since the beginning. Nothing memorable or worth mentioning has come forth from that book. The writing is horrendous, the artwork is too childish, and the characters are too transparent and forgetable.

#9 Edited by papad1992 (6832 posts) - - Show Bio

@rodwell said:

@papad1992 said:

New X-Men: Academy X was the book to bring me back to X-Men full time... I was floating around reading different books here and there from different publishers, but this series is what reeled me back in. I loved all of the deep relationships, well-developed characters, and endless drama and guilt... it was the perfect X-book in my opinion. And now what do we have?? Wolverine and the X-Men is crap, always has been always will be because their characters, except for a couple, are all transparent canonfodder and background throw-aways.

I want to see the next step in evolution for these characters... Let them form their own team and go off on adventures and explorations as the next generation. G-d knows they've had enough schooling.

Strong words on Watxm, i agree with the fact that a lot of the characters are background characters, and now that i have been thinking about it i just dont view them to be characters that will grow up to be x-men. There is too much character development needed, and i dont think its possible as funny and as funny looking as people like broo and shark girl are there is no way they are going to become x-men.

As for this group to be the next generation, maybe that will be the direction the current x-men series will take. This series is using them almost as a backup support team to storms group.

Thank you... My point exactly!

#10 Posted by papad1992 (6832 posts) - - Show Bio

New X-Men: Academy X was the book to bring me back to X-Men full time... I was floating around reading different books here and there from different publishers, but this series is what reeled me back in. I loved all of the deep relationships, well-developed characters, and endless drama and guilt... it was the perfect X-book in my opinion. And now what do we have?? Wolverine and the X-Men is crap, always has been always will be because their characters, except for a couple, are all transparent canonfodder and background throw-aways.

I want to see the next step in evolution for these characters... Let them form their own team and go off on adventures and explorations as the next generation. G-d knows they've had enough schooling.