Justice? Hal Jordan seems to be the most popular of the Green Lanterns and yet I find it hard to understand why. He was not the first Earth Green Lantern and there are four other human lanterns to choose from. All of them seem cooler and better than Hal hands down.
Why other Lanterns Are Better Let's start with Alan Scott. Alan is the original Lantern way before Hal. He has the golden age look and feel. He also has Jade as a daughter who is a great character in her own right. In Addition Alan has the most unique power, origin and costume of all the earth Lanterns.
Guy Gardner is the smart-@$$. He is the less than reverent, rebel with his emotions bubbling to the surface. I remember watching the special features of the recent Green Lantern cartoon and they attributed a similar attitude to Hal. In the cartoon I would agree and I liked the cartoon but, that is not the Hal I see in the comics. Hal seems much more dry in his comics. Guy is also the crazy one who has been burned over and over again. Despite that Guy has a heart of gold that he tries not to let anyone see. This can be seen in his romance with Ice and his friendship with G'Nort who wouldn't have even been in the league if it wasn't for Guy.
Is this for real? Guy was also chosen to be the Green Lantern when Abin Sur crashed his ship on earth. Hal only got the ring because he was closer. How would the mythology of the Green Lantern be had Guy been selected before Hal?
John Stewart has two neat personalities. In the DC Animated Universe John is a marine. (once a marine always a marine) It gives a whole new aspect to the Corps. In the comic books he is the human Green Lantern who doesn't wear a mask. He is a man of the people and he even got married unlike most superheroes. John is also the only main Green Lantern who is a minority and is one of the most popular superheroes of color ever.
Kyle Rayner seemed like a younger Hal Jordan in the beginning and he did have the horrible origin story of his girlfriend being cut up and put in a refrigerator. Kyle however came into his own as a more relaxed hero. He is also the most creative of the Green Lanterns. Being an artist he makes really neat constructs with his ring and has a much more modern uniform than the other Lanterns.
Hal takes advantage of Kari's loss.Why Hal Is Not That Great To me Hal has always had a "Superman" like attitude. He has also always had a self-righteous attitude and, yet seems more screwed up than any other lantern and most heroes. Look at his track record.
Hal is a quitter. He quit being a Lantern for a time.
Hal doesn't get along with his fellow Lanterns. He took away Guy Gardner's ring and tried to take away John Stewart's.
Hal can not be counted on. He inadvertently trapped Guy into the Phantom Zone and thought he was dead but before his body would have even been cold he hits on Guy's fiance Kari Limbo. a very short time. Can anyone really blame Guy for his anger...Oh yeah Hal can.
Hal is not a team player. When Guy was put in charge by the Guardians during Crisis of Infinite Earth's Hal turns on him. Again he quit the corps and the League and tried to take other lanterns rings and get members kicked out of the league.
Hal has a questionable relationship with a very young woman. Hal has a serious relationship with Arisia. Arisia was a young teenager who willed herself to look older. Hal himself said that he still thought of her as a child and then a very short time later had his relationship with the young girl. Tell the judge "she looked 18" and see how far it gets you. Later, even after the age reboot of Arisia he is seen hitting on an underage Supergirl. All the while reminding himself that he has food in his refrigerator that is older.
Hal with Arisia Hal has problems with Alcohol. Hal is the only superhero I know of who went to prison for drunk driving.
Hal is a weak protector. Hal is the only hero I know to loose his "protected city" completely. Other heroes have had tragedies in their city but under Hal's watch Coast City is completely destroyed. Every man, woman, child and blade of grass is wiped out.
Hal is unstable. Hal went mad with the loss of Coast City and tried to will it back with his ring. He then went and killed all the remaining Green lanterns and became Parallax. Yes, I know after the fact a story was written saying he was possessed but that didn't really fit what happened originally. When going back and reading the stories it never seemed fit. Lets face facts the Parallax story was made up just to bring Hal back. I maintain he was too far gone to come back.
Hal has an evil soul. Hal became the Spectre because his soul was in purgatory for his sins. Supposedly this was for killing all the Green Lanterns. In the DC Universe the Spectre is the Wrath of God himself. This brings up many questions. Is God wrong in having Hal in purgatory? Was Parallax more powerful than God and was he able to stay undetected for a time? Did God not care that Hal was possessed and therefore not responsible. Was Hal in purgatory for something else? I'm still not sure. This is just one of the problems with the reboot.
I CAN'T!?! Hal Jordan is prejudice. Hal had a friend Tom who he referred to by the racist name "Pieface" or "Pie". Now in his defense Hal seemed to treat Tom with respect in most cases but calling him Pieface is not that respectable. Hal also had weak relationships with people of color. (see image)
Hal has so many poor qualities and they are so many Green Lanterns to choose from. I do not understand his popularity. I do not understand when there are so many other Lanterns to choose from people still think of Hal as a good hero. He has been rebooted over and over again because he always does scuzzy or lame things that make him look bad. You can reboot Batman and say he was always a ham sandwich but that doesn't change things in the past stories. This is just another point of proof to his being a less than great hero. Who is your favorite Earth Lantern, and why? I also ask again What's so great about Hal Jordan?
330 Comments
@Sexy Merc: Determination... motivation... strong willed... all i'm reading there is other superhero stereotypes i'm afraid. Like i said, the only thing remotely unique about Hal Jordan is that he is a cocky, womanzing douche bag.
Yes i've read Emerald Dawn 1 and 2, Emerald Twlight and if i remember correctly The Road Back. And like i said... Emeral Twilight was pretty much the only time Hal Jordan has actually developed as a character. It was a great story line and the only time i've felt something for Hal. He went through a horrible tragedy, witnessing everything and everyone he ever cared for die. People say what he did after was out of character, not really. He is strong willed... so strong willed that he wouldn't accept that he couldn't do nothing for Coast City. So tried to get enough power to alter reality and bring it back.
That is REAL character development. And it was a really unique, bold and touching superhero story. Something no one had ever seen before. But no... Geoff Johns had to go and retcon it because he doesn't want Hal to be anything other than a superhero cliche and blamed it all on a parasitic, space bug...
@the ace of knaves: Johns is writing his whole one dimensional characterization. He's pretty much a James Bond character to the new kids picking up Green Lantern.
Read JLA: Year One, Flash/Green Lantern The Brave and the Bold, New Frontier and a hell of a lot more NOT written by Johns. Yes, some are out of continuity, but it shows Hal more vulnerable and introspective character. His character development HAS happened, just not as much as some like Kyle. Basically, he seems like Superman in the sense that there are only a few who can write him very well.
He has so much potential as a character as a writer can explain so much things about him. The guy doesn't fear anything, shows emotion, and jumps into situations without thinking. There could be more to his without fear personality than his seeing his dad die. There could be a lot more depth. Hell, they could show him trying to prove something to his dead father. Currently, it only shows Hal reacting to things around him, not on the inside. I mean, he barely explores that. His mom snapped and becomes very controlling, then gets cancer, and blames Hal for her stress but nearly no writers explored that.
Hal was always a Han Solo type of guy to me. Mark Waid and Darwyn Cooke have written him very damn well. Read Batman: Year One, I mean I love that story, but look at Bruce's personality there. Oh wait, there isn't any. There are writers that can write Hal as a good character with a lot of depth and personality, but it happens once in a blue moon. As for the cockiness, I guess that's interpretation as I've always seen him as a confident young Captain Kirk in those situations but I do agree that he can be cocky, which I don't mind.
Hal does a lot of things without thinking but he's not stupid because he can think of very well thought out plans. He's cocky and fearless which leads to recklessness a lot of times, but why? They never explored that either. He seriously has so much potential that only the real Hal fans here seem to see. He's not careful, analytical, or slow because he can take stale situations into something dangerous in a second. The trip with Ollie developed his character to more mindful of social issues and it's stuck with him. He's also a romantic as well, not like Kyle, but he let his heart make many decisions for him, whether it be in a relationship, for family, or friends. I'm getting tired of all the people saying he isn't loyal because Hal is very loyal and noble towards his friends.
Personally, i think it's an insult to Harrison Ford and the writers of Star Wars to compare someone as lame as Hal to Han.
I see we ain't gonna see eye to eye so i will end it here. I am just baffled as to why people like Hal Jordan. He's a cardboard cut out cliche superhero with zero personality. If you saw him in a bar you'd think he was a douche bag. Like one of those high school jocks.
He may have potential... but from what i have read, it hasn't even come close to being met. Well, something interesting was done with him... but it was retconned.
And i won't, because Hal just doesn't appeal to me. I'm not gonna carry on reading books about a character that i think is one of the most overrated mainstream superheroes ever created. And i'm not alone in this line of thought. No one outside of Green Lantern fans (and even a lot of GL fans) likes or even respects Hal Jordan as a character. There must be a reason for this.
That's the problem. You start reading Green Lantern once Johns starts writing it and you hate the character and refuse to read his older stories. If I got introduced to Green Lantern with Johns, I'd feel the exact same way as you guys. I'm not criticizing you because it's your opinion. No one respecting Hal outside of fans is a completely false statement. I know more people who disrespect Superman outside of Superman readers. The reason I've stated already.
Off-topic but what's so great about Han Solo's character and not accomplishments that you like?
I don't know what the heck is so great about Hal?!!
You seem to have sold me. Hal sucks. :} I'm going to trust you on this.
Actually I am fairly new to the whole lantern thing, I have only read sporadically over the years. I may be more into it now than ever, I liked Blackest Night and now Brightest Day.
"
I am a Kyle fan. Hal was turning Evil when I got into comics.
13 or Not@Sexy Merc:@the ace of knaves: After some of the posts I read I am really glad to see you guys have a real good debate. Obviously I couldn't agree with Ace of Knaves more but Sexy Merc as usual makes some really good points as well.
I have been reading Hal going back to the 1970's I even have some older ones but no many. I have Guy's first appearance and I have to tell you Hal has always sucked. Many people who like Hal have pointed to Geoff Johns. He has become the end all and be all of Hal. When I was a kid in the 1970's I grew up watching the Super Friends. I loved the Green Lantern because his costume was the coolest in my seven year old mind. All the characters were the same on the show. So, the costume and powers were the only thing to distinguish the characters.
She's 17 Hal! Once I could read avidly I would of course buy the Green Lantern comics. I read them but they were just like the cartoons and I was fine with that until I started reading other books and I grew up. With every new book and the older I got the more I realized what a tool Hal is. His origin has to be retcon over and over again because he keeps doing dumb, bad or harmful things.
I bet Superman fans don't debate weather or not he has had inappropriate relations with minors. Arisia went from looking like a 13 year old to a young adult in the same day Hal was making out with her. He also went after Kari Limbo moments after he thought Guy was dead. Guy's corpse wouldn't even have been cold yet. Hal has no class. Check out the Supergirl exchange to the left. He has to remind himself that she is underage. He is wasn't so bad why would his past continually have to be rebooted?
Hal Jordan is like a creepy uncle in his mid 40s. Sure he is a cop and helps out the community but, you wouldn't let him watch your kids. The logic to defend him is the same as the logic used to defend Barry Bonds. Bonds is a cheater and a jerk. No matter how many home runs he hits he will always be a cheater and a jerk.
@Sexy Merc: huh? i just told you i read emerald dawn 1 and 2, the road back and emerald twilight. the only good story out of those was emerald twilight... and it was retconned.
Han Solo? He's a likable rogue. He's a bit of a douche bag womanizer... but he is charismatic and likable with it. Hal Jordan is not. He's just a womanizing douche bag... minus the likable and charismatic parts...
@Liberty: Really great post. You obviously have more experience with the GL mythos than me, but i do remember others talking about what he did to Guy on other forums. Another brilliant example of Hal Jordans douche baggery.
And i hate when GL fans use Geoff Johns run to defend Hal Jordan. Geoff Johns treatment of Hal Jordan is nothing but professional fan fiction. Honestly, Johns writing of Hal, Sinestro and Barry Allen is probably THE greatest example of "Mary Sueism" in professional fiction. This is all totally undeniable and anyone who says otherwise doesn't have a clue about writing.
Honestly, i don't read any DC books anymore apart from Booster Gold and sometimes Secret Six. The rest of it is just a muddle of retcons and fanboys writing their favourite characters. I'm not a Marvel fanboy or anything, well, i might be getting close to it because i find DC's output to be appaling these days.
I've never chosen sides before, i've always just read what i thought was good comics, regardless of what company they come from. But with Geoff Johns fanboying it up with the GL and Flash mythos, Grant Morrison taking Batman's already ridiculous "prep time" to an even more ridiculous and contrived level, the treatment of Wonder Woman and the companies apparent inability to have an event without retconning a load of established stuff... AGAIN... i'm pretty much done with DC unless it's Booster Gold or Secret Six.
" @Liberty: I hate when GL fans use Geoff Johns run to defend Hal Jordan. Geoff Johns treatment of Hal Jordan is nothing but professional fan fiction. Honestly, Johns writing of Hal, Sinestro and Barry Allen is probably THE greatest example of "Mary Sueism" in professional fiction. This is all totally undeniable and anyone who says otherwise doesn't have a clue about writing. "
*Slow clap*
I still don't like Hal. People told me to read the stuff with Hal in it before Johns started writing, and I find that he's either a complete d-bag or a Mary Sue. No in between. What's up with that?
Mary Sue is most common in fan fiction. It basically means when a writer makes their favourite character the most awesome in every single way just because they are a fan of the character, not for real story telling reasons... crapping on other characters along the way most of the time too.
Also when a writer uses a character as a avatar for themselves and makes them beyond perfect.
Geoff Johns recent work is probably the greatest example of Mary Sueism in professional fiction. Rivalling Stephanie Meyer's Twilight books.
oh so you are one of those people who judges whether a character is a good character or a bad character based on their power levels?
let me put it to you like this... if you stripped Hal Jordans GL powers away, and gave him some standard super power like super strength or a healing factor... would anyone give a crap about him? the answer, is no... because he has the personality of a toilet bowl. the guy is a uncharismatic, unlikable version of Marverick from Top Gun.
and anyway... Hal's imagination is so limited 99% of the time he either just punches people with his own fist... or creates a construct fist.
Hahaha that was one of the dumbest point ever. If u did that to just about any super heroes they would be crap. Nobody likes their favorite character that much to where if they couldn't defend themselves or had another power that didn't suit them they would still just love them.. Hals imagination is limited next to kyle or johns. But that doesn't mean anything bc hal is still the most powerful. Also i said nothing about hal being a good or bad character im simply saying hal is the most powerful. More powerful then the other lanterns. I honestly don't get why u guys hate so much on hal lol. Besides him being cocky he is alright. My favorite is guy but like i said twice b4. im giving props were props are due, not just hating bc i can.
@wallywest55: The point is you are being obnoxious when others have talked to you respectively. That usually means you are supporting a weak argument and know it. Saying someone's opinion is dumb is not productive especially when I had to define personality for you and can barley read what you are writing.
@wallywest55: lol you are saying my point is dumb? yet you are not really countering anything i said. and spewing a load of absolute nonsense yourself. how old are you? like 10 or something?
hal jordan doesn't have a real personality other than being a cocky, womanzing douche bag. answer me this... if hal wasn't this all powerful green lantern and was just some generic superhero with generic powers like superstrength... what would he be?
i can think of plenty of characters that would still be interesting if they had different powers or no powers at all. because they have engaging PERSONALITIES.
and of course you don't see why people hate on hal... because you have your fanboy blinkers on. i bet you disagree that hal jordan is a mary sue... something which is totally 100% undeniable. hell i bet geoff johns himself would admit it. or do you even know what a mary sue is?
i'm not hating for the sake of hating. i hating because hal jordan deserves to be hated. he is a crappy, cardboard cut out, cliche, stereotype of a superhero who doesn't have anything remotely unique about him apart from his powers. i'm hating on him because a character that cliche and one note doesn't deserve to have a movie made about him. he doesn't deserve to be this popular.
and like i said, when the ONLY unique and interesting thing about a character, hero or villain, is their powers, then that is the signs of a crap character. it really is that simple.
@primepower53: Why don't you list some good things about him. Like his amazingly unique and engaging personality! Yea, Hal surely does have that!
oh wait...
@primepower53: Hal love makes me sad. He is a cardboard cut out, cliche of a superhero with no unique personality traits. I'm still waiting for someone to answer the question; who would give a crap about Hal Jordan if he didn't have those cool Green Lantern powers?
I was wondering this exact thing while Blackest Night was going on. Why is Hal most or less the centerpiece of all this? Why does Hal get all the spot light? Why is Hal considered the best GL of all time(he wiped the corps out completely)? Now I don't dislike Hal in anyway, I like just about everything GL(even Sinestro and the Red Lantern Corps), but I just wanna know why he gets all this popularity. John Stewart from the JLA cartoon show made me love GL, and Kyle Rayner(favorite GL btw) deserves most of Hal's spotlight, or atleast more stories IMHO.
Props to the topic creator, you bring up good and convincing points. Well done dude!
@primepower53: i don't, who said i did? i'll never, ever pay money for a book featuring a character as lame and one dimensional as hal jordan.
@Dark_Slayor: the answer to your question is very simple. geoff johns is a fanboy of hal jordan, he has even admitted this in interviews. so he has given hal the mary sue treatment, same with barry allen. and in doing so crapped all over much better characters like kyle reyner and wally west.
@the ace of knaves: Who would give a crap about Hal Jordan if he didn't have his ring? Green Arrow obviously. Heck when Ollie died, Hal cried at his grave because he couldn't even protect his best friend, heck, he even brought him back to life because of the guilt. Hal is loyal but when it's time for business, it's business time. When it's time for joking and play, it's time for joking and play. He doesn't mix the two, but he knows them both and keeps them equal.
@Lion_Heart22 said:
"
Hey, newbie here.
I mean, I just made this account, but I've been lurking around the vine for a long time now. Anyway, recently I read a blog in the Hal Jordan page, which asked the question "What's so great about Hal Jordan?" Well, I can't speak for anyone else here at the vine, but I'll try to put into words why Hal is the greatest Green Lantern in my book, and one of my favorite superheroes, and why he does indeed deserve his place in the GL mythos as the mantlepiece.
Okay, so for starters, he was the first. Yes, I'm aware of Alan Scott, but he just had the name, he wasn't a member of the Corps, and we all know that Hal was the first human GL. To draw a comparison, there was an old Golden Age character called the Black Widow who bore no resemblance to the Natalia Romanova we now know, same case with an older incarnation of the famed Ghost Rider. So, technically speaking, yes, Hal was the first human Green Lantern, and he had the best origin story out of anyone who ever bore that name. You don't have a good origin, you have nothing. Hal's a classic, and people dissing his costume should remember that his was one of the most modern examples of superhero costumes at the time it was created. It still is. His look, his character, is as iconic as Superman's and has only recently mildly been robbed of his importance in the eyes of the non-comic reader population by the latest adaptations of the JLA to TV. Really, who are the others?
Guy? He's that other dude who would've been GL but wasn't, became an annoying jerk and only became a good character when Hal came back. John? He never grew a personality until they force-fed him to the world with the animated series. Kyle? The trademark replacement who'll never live up to the original standards. You wanna talk about bad protectors? He let his girlfriend get killed and only seems to have been affected by it from time to time. He even cracks jokes about it. I love the kid but he didn't even had enough willpower to beat Slade with the most powerful weapon in the universe.
Aquaman did that. Whilst blinded. With one strike. And fighting alone.
See here, Hal has that old school charisma that other heroes, even heroes older than him, like Superman and Batman, lack. He reminds me so much of Han Solo; here's a character that can sit in a bar having a regular day, and a few moments later, he's flying off to save the world. He punches the bad guys, saves the world, cracks a joke and kisses the girl, those characters just aren't common anymore. He is an everyman, and to me, one of the most relatable characters in the JLA. He's not a Godly alien, not an Amazon Warrior Princess, not a brooding dark knight or an Atlantean King. He's just a guy with the most powerful weapon in the universe and a good sense of humour. He didn't chose the life of a Green Lantern, he was chosen for it, and went from a ordinary airforce gruff to a Galactic Guardian. This of course is only one of Hal's faces. We all know he screwed up. Big time. He lost his city, his whole life, and went insane, but really people, could you judge a person for losing it under those circumstances? What would Superman do if faced with the vision of Lois, Jimmy, Perry White, the whole of Metropolis turned into a smoldering crater? It was simply Hal's fate to be the one who lived through that. But he was never evil, he was simply lost in grief. There he was, the hero who had saved the planet and the galaxy countless times, and this was his reward? And even when he had crossed the line into becoming Parallax, he was still able to pull himself back and save the world yet again, sacrificing his life in the process.
Not only that, he became the Spectre and sought to right the wrong he had done in life. And after he was brought back, he faced his former friends, he faced his heir and the Corps, he took full responsability for what he had done and he never took anyone's forgiveness for granted, but worked hard to rectify what he had done and is still earning everyone's trust back. Is that being a coward? Anyone one of you who has ever done something wrong knows the guts it takes to face up to what you have done and try to make it right again.
Hal's story is one of courage, adventure, tragedy, darkness, redemption... amongst the GL's, he certainly seems to me the one with more dimensions to his character, and his flaws of character are not bigger or more important than those of his teammates. Not to be trusted? Everyone, even John and Guy trust Hal with his life. But Batman? He fights alongside you yet he has a plan for killing you hiding in his batbelt. Batman couldn't save Jason Todd, Aquaman couldn't save his child, Wonder Woman outright KILLED a man for the world to see, and not to mention what the JLA did with Dr. Light and others to protect their identities. Alcohol? Should I mention Tony Stark? Roy Harper? Mia Dearden? Hercules? That's actually why people can relate to him, he's not perfect! And yet he is the greatest Green Lantern, and I mean he's the best at doing what a GL does. His designs are simplistic, yes, but that is exactly what his character would do. He doesn't create architecturally accurate constructs or intricated pieces of art, because he doesn't need them. Hal gets the job done better than anyone else and with goes straight to the point. Not to mention his willpower is said to be the greatest in the universe, something which automatically makes him the most capable GL. After all, Guy was helpless against Doomsday and Kyle got his fingers broken by Deathstroke. Hal is a true, classic hero, but one who also just happens to be human, and that makes him that much more appealing to me as a character, because its inspiring how, no matter how badly you've messed something up, no metter how far into the darkness have you gone, with enough courage and willpower, a man, a hero will always face up to what he's done, and seek redemption. A hero is a hero, through and through, wether its in the Brighest day, or in the Blackest night, you can bet Hal's light will keep shining.
Anyway, those are my two cents. What are yours? Does Hal deserve his legendary status? Do you think someone else is a better GL?
"
Quoting what someone else said because it was simply great.
" @primepower53: i don't, who said i did? i'll never, ever pay money for a book featuring a character as lame and one dimensional as hal jordan.
@Dark_Slayor: the answer to your question is very simple. geoff johns is a fanboy of hal jordan, he has even admitted this in interviews. so he has given hal the mary sue treatment, same with barry allen. and in doing so crapped all over much better characters like kyle reyner and wally west. "
Yea, I see your point. A writer should never put a character on a pedestal at the expense of others(It's funny because I'll take Wally and Kyle over their "originals" any day). Through all this, I think Hal should be the number 4 GL of all time. After Kyle, Sinestro, and Guy of course.
On a side note Hal reminds me of the captain of the varsity football team, he has the accolades and the title but he kinda leaves me wanting more.....if that makes sense.
@Amegashita: yea... and it's a load of old cobblers. Hal Jordan and the word "charisma" just doesn't work...
" Hal's story is one of courage, adventure, tragedy, darkness, redemption" oh wow! That is so unique! And the darkness and redemption part are still part of continuity... oh wait... no it isn't!
" back, he faced his former friends, he faced his heir and the Corps, he took full responsability for what he had done and he never took anyone's forgiveness for granted, but worked hard to rectify what he had done and is still earning everyone's trust back. Is that being a coward?" No that's not a coward... that's a comic book cliche...
" He's just a guy with the most powerful weapon in the universe and a good sense of humour. ~" A good sense of humour? GTFO. His idea of humour is calling someone out and ridiculing them. Like the douche bag high school jock.
And i wasn't talking about what characters would give a crap about Hal if he didn't have his ring lmao. I was talking about fans, comic book readers. I guarantee that if Hal Jordan had some generic super power like a healing factor or superstrength and didn't have those cool GL powers... no one would give a crap about him. Why? Because he doesn't have the personality to back it up. He is the greatest example of "powers over personality". He's a cardboard cut out. And in recent times, a blatant mary sue. Anyone who denies that he is a mary sue i will not pay attention to, because that would just be fanboy denial. Hell, i bet if you pressed Geoff Johns and asked him off the record he'd readily admit Hal Jordan is a mary sue.
@Dark_Slayor: i know exactly what you mean. that is why i hate hal jordan. he is like the captain of the high school football team. yea he's really talented bla bla bla... but he is shallow and one dimensional and doesn't have a personality or anything interesting to say unless he is talking about football.
@the ace of knaves: It's apparent nothing I would say could change your mind. It's already set. Just so you know, I like Hal Jordan for what he represents, not his powers. Your personal opinion we'll prevent you from seeing Hal in the light that I see him in. You hate Hal Jordan? Great for you, continue your hate and express it however but I like Hal Jordan and I like his character. My only advice to you is to not let bad writing blind a view of a character.
@Amegashita: I know i know. There is no bad characters, only bad writing.
But the only time Hal has ever been written well or with something actually unique about him was Emerald Twilight... and it was retconned. All that character development was washed away and blamed on a friggin space bug.
Can you answer me the question though? Would you still read books featuring Hal Jordan if he just had some generic super power like strength or flight? And answer honestly.
@the ace of knaves: Yes I would actually, and I'm completely honest here. Hal represents taking what you've been given and using it as wisely as possible. I don't always read stories about heroes with unbelievable powers of great quality. I just like reading about heroes, and what they represent. If Hal had some generic power but still represented all that he should I would read about him. Because I like heroes, not anti-heroes and not villains. Only heroes.
Hal represents taking what you've been given and using it as wisely as possible? Sure that maybe true... but that is my whole beef with the character. Pretty much EVERY hero EVER has that trait. It's nothing unique... it's a cliche. And that is the only thing Hal has got going for him apart from his super cool GL powers. He's a cardboard cut out cliche of a superhero.
And that's why i don't like just the heroes. Because most of the time they are all the same, barring superficial things like their powers. I like to see the conflict inside a anti hero. I like to see the journey they go on. Trying to better themselves whilst struggling with their past. And with villains i like to see if they have any redeeming qualities or if they are just outright eveil.
@the ace of knaves: The thing I like about Hal though is that the ring didn't make him who he was, he was always what he is now as a Green Lantern. That's a big reason why I really like him.
But more importantly, me and you are really walking totally different paths. I admit that I read Wolverine comics every now and again, but I definitely don't read them because of past conflict, though fortunately they have them. Anti-heroes are easier to write than actual heroes. Now-a-days thanks to Identity Crisis writing anti-heroes is just the writer taking the easy way out. Identity Crisis showed the conflict of being a hero and upholding a different standard. It showed what happens when heroes can't uphold a standard but it also showed us what happens when a hero takes the easy way out. Identity Crisis changed the way a lot of real heroes are written, and how they go through conflicts.
There's not much conflict in anti-heroes outside of dealing with their past while killing anything they deem as an enemy. That is also a cliche.
That isn't how i view anti heroes, well not all of them. Characters like Venom are lame. Wolverine is just a parody of himself these days.
Anti heroes, by their very nature should be villains... but there is something inside them that is willing them to better themselves. I like to see them struggling with that. Well written anti heroes go on journeys of character. Most actual superheroes are good and that's it. They don't actually develop as characters. It's just them being cliche good guys.
I can't agree that anti heroes are easier to write by default than bonafide heroes. Some are, some ain't. But you can't make sweeping generalizations like that. Frank Castle The Punisher is easy to write. But someone like Deadpool is very difficult to write. As proven by no one apart from Joe Kelly or Mark Waid being able to write him well.
@the ace of knaves: Yeah, the one's who are horribly written. Tim Drake is a hero, and he fights without killing but you can't tell me that he doesn't develop in the 15-20 years of his existence. The guy loses his entire family, his hero, his best friends, and then the only father figure he has left and he still fights. Heck whenever a person dies he never blames the situation and he doesn't blame people, he blames himself and he takes the guilt like shackles to his ankles and carries it with him for the rest of his life. The whole Batman Family is like that. They don't give up. And they don't stop. But most of all, they don't forget about the ones they, and others have lost.
@Amegashita: Yea exactly. Even though they have been through terrible tragedies, they still try their best to do the right thing. It might be hard for them, sometimes they might fail... but they keep on trying and struggling no matter what.
Characters like The Punisher? He just uses his families death as an excuse because he actually enjoys killing. That's why i can't stand him.
I was wondering this exact thing while Blackest Night was going on. Why is Hal most or less the centerpiece of all this? Why does Hal get all the spot light? Why is Hal considered the best GL of all time(he wiped the corps out completely)? Now I don't dislike Hal in anyway, I like just about everything GL(even Sinestro and the Red Lantern Corps), but I just wanna know why he gets all this popularity. John Stewart from the JLA cartoon show made me love GL, and Kyle Rayner(favorite GL btw) deserves most of Hal's spotlight, or atleast more stories IMHO.
Props to the topic creator, you bring up good and convincing points. Well done dude!
Great Post. You really summed up what I was saying.
@Amegashita: The blog you posted was great it was too bad they didn't post it here themselves. The question "What is so great about Hal?" Refers to him compared the other four human Green Lanterns not to the complete DCU. I would agree with the author on many points but disagree with the author on many others. For all the reasons I already stated. The few things I will comment on that I haven't already are the John Stewart's personality was not forced but rather developed. As for Guy Gardner. He was a good man. He helped special needs children and became a social worker. It was only after living in the Phanton Zone and watching his fiance being seduced by Hal moments after his"death" that things started to go bad for him. On top of that when he did come back he suffered at least three concussions, and was undermined by a bitter, petty Hal at every turn.
Hal takes advantage of Kari's loss.Why Hal Is Not That Great To me Hal has always had a "Superman" like attitude. He has also always had a self-righteous attitude and, yet seems more screwed up than any other lantern and most heroes. Look at his track record.
Hal is a quitter. He quit being a Lantern for a time.
Hal doesn't get along with his fellow Lanterns. He took away Guy Gardner's ring and tried to take away John Stewart's.
Hal can not be counted on. He inadvertently trapped Guy into the Phantom Zone and then went after his Guy's fiance Kari Limbo a very short time later. Sure this was questionable but could really blame Guy for his anger.
Hal is not a team player. When Guy was put in charge by the Guardians during Crisis of Infinite Earth,s Hal turns on him.
Hal has a questionable relationship with a very young woman. Hal has a serious relationship with Arisia. Arisia was a young teenager who willed herself to look older. Hal himself said that he still thought of her as a child and then a short time later had his relationship with the young girl. Tell the judge "she looked 18" and see how far it gets you.
Hal with ArisiaHal has problems with Alcohol. Hal is the only superhero I know of who went to prison for drunk driving.
Hal is a weak protector. Hal is the only hero I know to loose his "protected city" completely. Other heroes have had tragedies in their city but under Hal's watch Coast City is completely destroyed. Every man, woman, child and blade of grass is wiped out.
Hal is unstable. Hal went mad with the loss of Coast City and tried to will it back with his ring. He then went and killed all the remaining Green lanterns and became Parallax. Yes, I know after the fact a story was written saying he was possessed but that didn't really fit what happened. When going back and reading the stories it never seemed to fit. Lets face facts the Parallax story was made up just to bring Hal back. I maintain he was too far gone to come back.
Hal has an evil soul. Hal became the Spectre because his soul was in purgatory for his sins. Supposedly this was for killing all the Green Lanterns. The Spectre is the Wrath of God himself. This brings up many questions. Is God wrong in having Hal in purgatory? Was Parallax more powerful than God and was he able to stay undetected for a time? Did God not care that Hal was possessed and therefore not responsible. Was Hal in purgatory for something else? I'm still not sure.
I CAN'T!?! Hal Jordan is prejudice. Hal had a friend Tom who he referred to by the racist name "Pieface" of "Pie". Now in his defense Hal seemed to treat Tom with respect in most cases but calling him Pieface is not that respectable. Hal also had weak relationships with people of color. (see image)
Hal has so many poor qualities and they are so many Green Lanterns to choose from. I do not understand his popularity. I do not understand when there are so many other Lanterns to choose from people still think of Hal as a good hero. Who is your favorite Earth Lantern, and why? I also ask again What's so great about Hal Jordan? "
1. Hal is not a quitter, if he was, he would never have resumed his activities as Green Lantern. 2. He
inadvertantly
trapped guy in the phantom zone, you say that as if he meant to. I haven't read the story but I assume he thought Guy wouldn't come back, so he tried to comfort his fiance 3. He's not a team player?! Do you think the JLA would agree with that satement? 4. I'm pretty sure she didn't just look older, she actually aged to be older. 5. He's human, he made a mistake. Get over it. 6. The same situation happened to Green Arrow. 7. He was possessed, therefore, not in control of his actions. 8. His soul is not evil, if it was it would be in Hell, not purgatory. Many people nowadays would probably be in purgatory but let's not get into that... 9. Check out secret origins, when another pilot called tom pieface he disapproved. I know that's a retcon but that would mean he is no longer pregiduce. 10. He doesn't help Black people. Oh I see, you're referring to the million and one times he's saved the planet. He protects all people, he doesn't just choose by color, that would be rascist.
@Ultimate JSA: He doesn't claim he is the best. He hates himself for what happens. He just wants to do his job. Do the right thing. He could care less about titles.
Currently? Nothing whatsoever... seriously... i think i used several issues as extremely absorbant toilet paper after a bad curry...
As he used to be, he was an awesome character.... he had flaws, a real human background...
he cared about people and truly did want to make the world a better place... it caused him so much hassle that he turned to alcohol a few times and even tried to quit being a hero some times when he couldn't make enough of a difference
oh, also he knocked out Superman with one punch... respect :D
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