It's time to end the Superman+Wonder Woman relationship.

@squalleon:

Relatable you mean completely and utterly predictable and made a Lois nothing more than a timeless tsundere who gets dull to watch snark at the most righteously straightman super hero in comics.

No, that relationship made her a woman who struggles between her love for her husband and its difficulty to keep a relationship with a guy who is on a 24/7 alert. While still maintaining a more than successful carrier. And the snarky comments are great, they are never meant to be harmful and they always provide good entertainment. And since Superman's main characteristic isn't being a comedian, she completes him even more.

Just to throw my 2 cents in, is it so bad if Superman changes now? He's done it plenty of times before. Why is it so tragic if he simply changes with the zeitgeist? Comic characters, and Superman in particular because he's the oldest superhero, are static. They change to better fit the audience. Is that it? Are you guys just desperately holding on to the version that you love because you fear he's transforming into something different?

P.s. Please don't take that the wrong way as I'm not being snarky or condescending. We had a nice discussion about Andy Diggle and I'd like to maintain that type of correspondence. I'm genuinely interested in how you feel in regards to my comments.

What exactly are you talking about exactly? I don't think we mentioned Superman's character or something like that. We just disagreed in their relationship with Lois. Personally as I have pointed in various threads before I am all for a good handled Superman/WonderWoman or a Superman/Maxima one. I truly think Superman shouldn't go back to Lois so early because DC doesn't have the guts to advance the relationship even further after marriage (kids etc.). Now when someone is throwing ignorant comments around without any first hand knowledge I feel obligated to respond.

More ands more of these threads keep showing up.I happen to like the Supes/Wondy relationship and if you don't like it that doesn't mean it should be taken away from the people that do. Just read books that don't feature the relationship that much.

My apologies. The highlighted comment in addition to my reading of your discussions about Superman's character had garnered my interest in how you and a few other users felt about Superman changing. I just never said anything and that highlighted comment solicited my curiousity. Perhaps it was out of place.

@pperspectiveandreality: Apollogy accepted :-P I don't feel like I am against change or something but I do want my change to be meaningful and well-executed. For example Morrison's run provided a nice change of pace for Superman without feeling out of character or out of place, while Superman/Wonder Woman a concept that I love, is executed poorly at best, same with another concept like Clark leaving the Daily planet, a nice idea but when its result is a bad joke like Clarkcatropolis I just can't get behind it. Am I against Superman being with someone other than Lois of course not but I would prefer a well executed Clois than a poorly executed Cliana. And if DC wants to examine Superman with a super-partner, Maxima is just one step away ;-)

It's static then? Because Lois is only a burden to Supes in the long term when faced with dilemias that are beyond her just loving him and actually doing a super massive loss of emotional damage to the Man of Steel as Injustice shown. Lois also is mostly useless to Clark on a fundamental scale of intelligence and resourcefulness, which is why he goes to a human dressed as a bat instead of Lois for info.

And whats wrong with Superman himself saying funny stuff?

then, sir, we have virtually the same exact view on the matters addressed in this post. Right down to Maxima. This is the point I was making with this thread. I love the idea of Clark and Diana but only if it's done well. I also loved the idea of Clark leaving the daily planet, I thought it would make for some amazing investigative reporting on socially relevant issues like thacking, immigration, terrorism and human trafficking. But instead we got a gossip site tantamount to Perez hilton. And these are the things that make me angry with DC for the new 52. Not because I hate the change, but because of how poorly the change has been handled. Honestly, I believe that if DC waited like a a year or two before the new 52, thereby allowing Johns and Morrison to finish their respective runs on GL and Batman, then the new 52 would have been immeasurably better because then there wouldn't have been continuity errors with two of their A-list books.

This book should be canceled today and all evidence that it once existed burned and scrubbed off the internet

Its going to end at some point.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. As simple as that I get tired of the 3 or 4 people complaining about the same thing. Everybody doesn't like what you like that's and that's life!

@killerinstinct4588: There are more than 3 or 4 people complaining about it on here as there are on other forums. It's more than a minority, a lot of people are justifiably critical of this book and its poor quality in reviews, non official blogs and in sales too.

Superman/Wonder Woman has been selling well and has consistently stayed in the top 40 best selling comics, including Marvel's. As far as I know the Superman/Wonder Woman has been getting mostly positive reviews as well. So it's not going anywhere dude, sorry. A lot of people including myself enjoy this book series, and I don't want the relationship to end. I wanna see where it goes, and hopefully over time the writers get better at it.

@mpfly88: You don't want to see a trite, unengaging and demeaning to both characters' romantic relationship end? OK your prerogative. And no it hasn't gotten universally positive reviews nor has its sales been all that well when you consider the fact it dropped nearly 60,000 in overall sales since its start and only reaches the 30-40,000 mark. Plus given that every attempt to justify the relationship in the comics has failed miserably at every turn, I fail to see how it'll get better when writers like Mark Waid and Mark Millar haven't written convincing attempts of the Superman/Wonder Woman romance in the slightest.

..Its not selling that badly really, 47K copies in May, compared with 41K for Action Comics and only 31K for Wonder Woman's own book...however I have always bought it for the action, not the romance side which is a bit cringeing tbh!

Just read all the Superman/Wonder Woman issues. It's not the worst relationship ever to be published in comics. In fact, it's not the bad at all. It's just kind of boring.

I didn't say "universally", I said mostly. You're putting words in my mouth. It's sales have been fine, considering it's been staying in the 40K realm for quite some time now.

I'm telling you how it is right now, you're being a condescending jerk to everyone who doesn't agree with you. I know a lot of people don't like the relationship, but a lot of people like it just as well, and have been enjoying the book series. Don't buy it if it pisses you off so much, but don't insult the people who are enjoying it.

I still like the idea of the relationship but they are executing it poorly

Personally I suspect the entire relationship is a set up for another plot line down the road. I have a feeling Futures End is going to explore some what if scenarios and that we'll find out more about the underlying danger Batman pointed out to Clark (possibly an I told you so moment) when he first confronted him about the relationship. Why else tell us practically from day one that it was going to end and end badly?

Somebody have the bad case of the butthurts lol... This relationship works regardless how you feel about it. Let me guess Batman more sense huh?

Nope, I think someone's got the case of the fanboy blindness this time round. Let me know when you open your eyes to how badly this relationship affects both characters.

I fail to see how I'm being a condescending jerk in the slightest when all I'm doing is critically analysing the arguments for the romance and easily countering with the obvious ways it doesn't work. You're entitled to like it if you want but that doesn't mean you're liking something that's of any kind of good quality storytelling. And the sales have only stayed in the 40K realm because of Doomed. Crossovers inevitably bump up sales and once it ends, I guarantee you sales go back to the high 30K range like they have been before.

How about I tell you how it is instead of throwing out insults and acting whiny because someone's criticising what you like, you're liking something equivalent to Michael Bay's Transformers. It's fine to like it if you want but at the end of the day, you're liking something that's forced, unnecessary and empty of any depth or meaningfulness to it. That's the fact of the matter. For every so called argument for this romance, I can easily think of a counter that nullifies any romantic intimacy or natural progression of a relationship between these two. And that's because a romance between Superman and Wonder Woman simply does not work well. There's so much more that can be done with pairing these characters off with other romantic spouses than there can ever be by pairing these two characters together.

I will only accept a Superman/Wonder Woman break-up if Superman and Lois Lane do not hook-up immediately afterwards. If you people still keep bitching about it after that, then the lot of you are goddamn hypocrites.

And if Superman does, by some misfortune, get back with Lois, I want DC to finally give him some balls. No more of Lois' passive-aggressive bullshit, and constantly acting like a bitch towards Kal to make herself feel better about her inferiority to him. I want him to be ready to give an equally-snarky comeback and make it known he won't put up with her shit. I want him to act like he's the best goddamn catch all-round and she's lucky he's paying attention to her. Dude is supposed to behave like freakin' Don Draper/Captain Kirk in concept, the whole pining after one girl like a hopeless suitor is supposed to be an act.

I also want Superman to be hyper-intelligent, resourceful and prepared, skilled at a shitload of different things, a man of a million talents, kicking ass like there's no tomorrow and saving the day in style. He's Hercules-Meets-James-Bond-Meets-MacGyver, not George McFly with superpowers. DC seems almost terrified of exploiting the wish-fulfillment factor to the max with Superman, something that they had no problem doing with Batman for decades. It is pointless if Superman can push planets around, but Lex Luthor can shoot up some super-serum and kick his ass while Superman begs him to see reason, instead of fighting to take Luthor down a notch and show him who's boss.

I also want a Ferrari, a billion dollars, a mansion in Spain overlooking the ocean, and to be super-handsome. That's not gonna happen, so the least DC can do is make it easier for me to live vicariously through the Man of Steel.

Also, screw Wonder Woman. Superman has much better prospects in his own mythos. I hear Queen Maxima is looking for suitors, so get your Han Solo groove on, Supes, and show that alien queen some sweet Kryptonian lovin'.

^^^Ooooooo, sassy^^^

About second post above – that’s pretty much my opinion about this in a nutshell lol…

Orion+WW all the way

It's hilarious that you seem to think I'm the one doing the whining. This entire thread was made by you for the purpose of complaining about this relationship. I'm not here to argue with you about why I like the relationship, because you obviously have your agenda here and it's not gonna change. The relationship will inevitably end, so calm down and be patient. The rest of those who like it will enjoy it while they can. But the book series isn't ending anytime soon, so you're gonna have to deal.

i wont listen to anyone who thinks that Superman and Wonder Woman should end because of Superman should be with the biggest groupie in comics.

Lois Lane will date anyone with some power, be it Lex, Bruce Wayne or John Corben. She's a power groupie, Superman isnt special, he's just powerful. You guys can talk about the Byrne invention of Lois and Clark, but 50 years of history says Lois just wanted Superman.

As far as yoi Diana fans are concerned, you want her to date the misogynistic, arrogant pig that is Orion over a guy who treats her with respect? Holy Cow, i thought she's supposed to be a feminist icon? So Superman and Wonder Woman are a bad couple because Superman doesnt tell Diana to "stop with the talking and get with the sammich making"? Haysoes Christo y Santa Maria!

Whatever, Diana can get with Orion, but it's not very Diana of her. DC should really make a new woman for Supes. One that doesnt constant saving and actually plays off his personality.

Superman being paired with A-holes(Lois Lane is a major butt) is annoying amd not fun to watch. We get it, he's a nice guy, but no one is nice enough to put up with the abuse that he gets from his alleged love and best-friend.

@superguy1591:

Can I be your side kick.

What @orangebat said.

@orangebat: gets my vote.

What an obnoxious pairing...I thought it was cute (but inevitable) when I first heard about it...until I actually read it....(watching it was much worse)

Superman should have killed Zod in the series. Then people would not think the series is boring.

The issues themselves aren't bad. I just don't think there is much to the relationship in the series.

...and then cut to said "retcon" all being Batman's daydream fantasy.

It's time to end it? That would imply there was a time where it should have existed at all.

Quoted for truth.

Jesus Christ people, it's not THAT bad. Quit acting like it's a completely travesty.

NO!

Anything but that lame, outdated Lois and Clark relationship.

I betcha it goes on in more years than you anticipate, I'm talking decade long.

Look I'll admit this pairing is dull, but before this pairing became reality, Wonder Woman never really got a push in popularity or recognigtion in years after the live tv show so they made her superman's lady friend, and now look how it blew the internet up. Superman was getting dull too with lois so same principle applies to him.

So turning a character who is suppose to be the ultimate feminist icon needed to be Superman's girlfriend in order to increase popularity of WW. Not making a WW movie or another tv show.

@darkman61288: how is it a slap in the face to give her a boyfriend? Feminism has always been about equality for women, not eliminating men from their lives. Diana from day one was willing to leave her home and culture for the love of a man. She is a feminist icon because she consistently shows she is the equal of any man she came across and encourages everyone to behave as equals. Feminism is about breaking down outdated and controlling gender role identities (i.e. Women cook and clean while man works), so far they have shown no hint that WW is in any way subservient to SM. Their relationship looks to be very equal in these terms.

I don't dislike the relationship, but I don't see it as particularly interesting at this point either. They've struggled to show the couple as a team so far which makes it a little bland ... WW saves SM from Zod/Faora, then SM saves WW from a nuclear explosion. It's not horrible, but I'd like to see them explore what the two can do as a partnership, I thought the whole point of the book was to explore what happens when the two most powerful heroes can accomplish when they work together.

I'd like to see a story arc where a real global threat targets them specifically because they are a couple which forces them to work together to figure it out and defeat the villain ... the non-stop action is fun, but both characters are coming across as a bit one-dimensional to me.

Oh, I just decided to spice up your little scenario, that's all.

Says the guy who wants Wonder Woman to become Batman's arm-candy.

It makes Superman more Down-to-Earth to know he married a "hometown girl" instead of a fellow Super-hero. I also enjoy seeing Lois. Her ans Superman's relationship also paved way for incredible stories like Action Comics #719.

Yes, I never liked the idea of them being together.

I personally like the idea of them being together. It just feels...right. They make a nice couple. Don't get me wrong, i've been a superman fan for a long time and lois will always be there but i dunno recently she's been written really badly. A bit of a sell out rather than a investigative reporter. Plus she's really condescending to clark. Now i know clark is meant to be the stepping stool but since he's grown a spine he should be a bit more fast paced and match her wit. I like the way wonder woman is with him. One of my favourite scenes of the pair is when they're having a meal together and clark has convinced Diana to use a disguise. They just looked right. Another thing is that clark is a potential immortal. Maybe it can be that fear of him outliving a human that drives him to pursue a relationship with someone who will live as long as he will. I dunno it seems a awesome piece of story telling. Personally i think the superman fan base especially on the vine is a bit old fashioned sometimes. We may need to move on from lois. Although Geoff Johns did say that the relataionship will end so we may end up with them getting back together. We will see.