What do you make of this police shooting

http://rt.com/usa/242409-cops-shooting-dallas-video/

I don't believe this was a warranted shooting from the video I saw.

people being people

Use your taser.

It's about time somebody made a thread on this. It came up in the latest Michael Brown thread, so I'll respost a version of my comment from there.

I am open to the possibility of further evidence coming out to contradict my original impression, but from the video, that strikes me as voluntary manslaughter.

1. I'n not sure this guy even lunged at the cops as they claimed. He's standing still at first and then the next time you see him, he appears to be running sideways to get away from them. The crucial moment is missing, but it seems to me he would have fallen forward if he had lunged at them.

After multiple viewing, it does appear that he moved forward briefly before moving sideways, and one of the cops does move back several yards both of which lend credence to a lunge, but it's still a little murky.

2. The police unnecessarily escalated the situation. I understand a screwdriver can be a deadly weapon. It's also a freaking hand tool! In the moments we could see, the victim was not holding it in a threatening manner.

I like to play a little game called, "Let's reverse it!" If I knocked on the door to a police officer's house who seemed to be acting irrationally at the request of his mother, and he came to the door with a screwdriver, would I be allowed to put my hand on my gun and demand he drop the screwdriver? No, I would not. It's wrong to threaten someone who is not threatening you. If the man moved towards me seeing I was reaching for a gun, and I shot him, would I be found innocent? I think I would be on very shaky legal ground, and so are these cops.

3. It's a freaking screwdriver! Again, I know it could be deadly, but even if this guy did lunge at the cops, (something not clearly demonstrated) couldn't two cops with billy clubs and tasers disarm a man with a screwdriver? Can't one of them grab a taser or billy club instead of a gun?

In short, I do not think this guy posed a significant (if any) threat to the cops therefore the shooting was not justified.

Watched the video and I'm in complete agreement on all points, and how many police officers were involved? As if there weren't enough of them there to overpower, restrain and disarm the guy. Sure you could argue he may have gone for an officer's gun like the homeless guy in LA, but the cops in this situation didn't even try anything other than use of deadly force. Then it IS Texas, I live here and they'll likely get off without so much as a reprimand. If you think that's f**ked try this on for size... in 2012 Houston police shot and killed a mentally ill double amputee in a wheelchair who was threatening them with a pen http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/23/us/texas-amputee-shooting/ and the cop who pulled the trigger was acquitted by a grand jury, no charges. Free to walk and probably still carrying a badge and gun, which he seems quite fond of using as it's not the first time he's shot a suspect.

@antithetical: Bump.

I hadn't heard about the wheelchair shooting you mentioned. That's awful.

from what i know of police protocol i think they were within their right. i could be wrong though.

Well, first of all, thats an edited video, so your missing the full story....

The way I see it, you don't approach cops with anything in your hands. Yea, its just a screw driver, but it can still be used as a weapon.

And you remember the old saying "Don't make sudden moves" ? The guy deffs made what I would call a sudden move. It's likely the cop paniced and drew his gun in fear for his life (Yeah, i know. it's a screw driver. A, its cop training, and B, you can still kill someone with a screw driver).

Not saying it was right, but I can see why it happened. The officer who fired will probably be fired.

I'm also really sick of constant cop bashing on CV.

I've seen a few cop bashers here, but most of the people seem to be like me and just calling it as they see it on a case by case basis. I support Wilson in Ferguson and I oppose this one not because I'm for or against cops but just because I'm against unjustified killings.

You said the video was edited, and I've heard people on other sites claim that as well. Where do you see the tape being edited? Perhaps I'm overlooking it, but I didn't notice it. Obviously, there is more that happens before and after this clip starts, but none of that would seem to have much bearing on the shooting itself.

@batwatch: In the article OP links to, it says the agency clipped out almost 18 minutes of video, so maybe something happened there that could have shed more light on the situation?

As I said, what happened is not right, but I see why it happened.

@rd189:

Fair enough.

There is a long cut of it that I've skimmed, but the actual shooting is the same. It just shows them pulling up the house and following what I assume is procedure after the shooting.

Hmmm, I am not surprised that police killed a mentally-ill man.

@sog7dc: It was pretty f**ked up when I first heard about it. What struck me is that I work with mentally disabled individuals who at times can get upset, irrational and aggressive, but in no way are we as employees allowed to use any forceful, aggressive or violent means of dealing with them, it's all communication and very specific restraint procedures if necessary.

@batwatch I'm with you on the Ferguson issue, from all the information I've seen and heard my conclusion is there was an altercation and Brown was most likely being confrontational and belligerent. At the same time though I think the cops involved in the death of Eric Garner should have been brought up on charges as there's no way I've been able to watch that video and say he wasn't placed in a choke hold.

@antithetical:

Interestingly, Garner was put in a sleeper hold that puts the pressure on one of the arteries going to the brain and doesn't actually put pressure on he windpipe. The key difference is that you put your arm under the target's arm before putting it around the neck which leaves the windpipe undamaged. It is still a type of choke hold, so I'm guessing it's still banned by the NYCPD, but I'm not sure. Knowing this made me slightly less annoyed at the cops, but the blood flow interruption still caused the heart attack which caused his inability to breathe which gets us back to the same place.

If The police had spent significant time trying to handcuff him with Garner resisting, I would probably back the cops on that case, but I don't like how they jumped on him the second they tried to handcuff him and he withdrew his hands. Withdrawing your hands when someone tries to restrain them is a pretty innate reaction.

At bare minimum, the cop who jumped on Garner should be fired.