"conservatives" advocate "secession " of states from the US - Off-Topic

Posted by Paracelsus (1039 posts) - 7 months, 1 day ago - Show Bio

Remember the old saw from the 1960s- which culminated in the 1970 "Hard Hat Riot"(construciton workers attacked antiwar protestors)- "America- love it or leave it!"? That as a catch phrase of conservatives like the late William F.Buckley(1925-2008)- although I have questioned the implicit claim that conservatives somehow "own" America and anybody else remains there at its sufferance. They say if a man/woman lives long enough, he /she will see justabout everything. Case in point calls for "secession" from the United States by "conservatives" angry at Barack Obama's reelection( at least the Confederacy in 1861 wanted to keep their slaves- these latter secessionists are just angry that a black man has been reelected President of the United States- how dare this "darkey" get above himself- claims of "voter fraud" and Obama's alleged "gifts"(read bribery) by sore losers like Mitt Romney are little more than red herrings) Not that Barack Obama any more than Abraham Lincoln( a biopic of whose life opened Nov 9 in the US) is likely to take these calls seriously. NOW WHO REALLY "LOVES" AMERICA( or who should leave it- conservatives have frequently and justly ridiculed liberals who threatened to leave the US if a conservative Republican- Nixon, Reagan, both Bushes- is either elected or reelected- but at least they don't want to take their home states with them_??? Personally I think that anybody seriously advocating secession should-irrespective of their political views- be automatically stripped of their US citizenship- if they don't "love America", then perhaps they should really "leave it!

anybody else think as I do?

Terry

#1 Posted by Goldenboy_Prime (172 posts) - 7 months, 3 hours ago - Show Bio

@Paracelsus: No, they should be ignored and educated on what it means to be a federal constitutional republic with democratic election system (among other things). You cure ignorance and you cure 90% of the world's issues.

#2 Edited by _Zombie_ (9615 posts) - 7 months, 2 hours ago - Show Bio

It's a bunch of idiots starting petitions because they think secession is a good idea. Don't see why I should give them any of my time or attention.

#3 Edited by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - 7 months, 2 hours ago - Show Bio

@Paracelsus said:

Remember the old saw from the 1960s- which culminated in the 1970 "Hard Hat Riot"(construciton workers attacked antiwar protestors)- "America- love it or leave it!"? That as a catch phrase of conservatives like the late William F.Buckley(1925-2008)- although I have questioned the implicit claim that conservatives somehow "own" America and anybody else remains there at its sufferance. They say if a man/woman lives long enough, he /she will see justabout everything. Case in point calls for "secession" from the United States by "conservatives" angry at Barack Obama's reelection( at least the Confederacy in 1861 wanted to keep their slaves- these latter secessionists are just angry that a black man has been reelected President of the United States- how dare this "darkey" get above himself- claims of "voter fraud" and Obama's alleged "gifts"(read bribery) by sore losers like Mitt Romney are little more than red herrings) Not that Barack Obama any more than Abraham Lincoln( a biopic of whose life opened Nov 9 in the US) is likely to take these calls seriously. NOW WHO REALLY "LOVES" AMERICA( or who should leave it- conservatives have frequently and justly ridiculed liberals who threatened to leave the US if a conservative Republican- Nixon, Reagan, both Bushes- is either elected or reelected- but at least they don't want to take their home states with them_??? Personally I think that anybody seriously advocating secession should-irrespective of their political views- be automatically stripped of their US citizenship- if they don't "love America", then perhaps they should really "leave it! anybody else think as I do? Terry

It has nothing to do with his color. Stop it.

People in general INCLUDING black people are angry at Obama. He's spending away from the U.S; his people! To secure international trade, and war, and the security of the 146 bases across the globe. The unimployment rate is still the same only in the U.S because the "jobs" (2 million) that he created was oversea. Have you ever talked to your credit card company operator and heard the accent of someone in India or China? How about this? The ONE World Trade Center? Isn't it suspicious that the World Trade Center hasn't completed yet after 6 years? That tower should of been completed right after its 2nd year, but the money is going out to other countries and the inflation is causing the construction agencies and tycoons much more than the building is supposed to cost. (Wolrd Trade Center 1 & 2 cost $400 million in comparison to the one Freedom Tower that cost $3.8 billion)

Only a hard core liberal can not see this. All you guys talk about is color and sex.

#4 Edited by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - 7 months, 1 hour ago - Show Bio

Also, if you by any chance meant "conservatives" as Republican and "liberals" as Democrat, which I think you are, haven't you ever questioned, who's been ruling the U.S for 100 years?

It was BOTH the Democrats and Republicans.

They are a tag-teaming two party system. If it were not true, we would of had other parties as President since Lincoln's time. Lincoln & Andrew Johnson were the last 3rd party (Union) to ever become President.

#5 Posted by jobiwankenobi (1459 posts) - 7 months, 1 hour ago - Show Bio

I feel that "darkey" reference is untrue.

Anyway, the states aren't actually going to secede or even try to. It's just their way of saying they're upset with this and this is what they think of it. Clearly it is working if people get this worked up about it.

#6 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - 7 months, 1 hour ago - Show Bio

Only the KKK or other racist groups would think what had been stated as "darkey thinking above himself" -And they are liberals.

#7 Posted by Vortex13 (11092 posts) - 7 months, 1 hour ago - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: Uhm, the KKK are not liberals....

#8 Posted by AtPhantom (14454 posts) - 7 months, 1 hour ago - Show Bio

@jobiwankenobi said:

I feel that "darkey" reference is untrue.
Anyway, the states aren't actually going to secede or even try to. It's just their way of saying they're upset with this and this is what they think of it. Clearly it is working if people get this worked up about it.

I think you're confusing random dudes mussing over it on the internet with people actually being worked up. Because let's face it, we're not exactly a representative sample.

#9 Posted by The Stegman (13702 posts) - 7 months, 1 hour ago - Show Bio

Pfft, the Civil War should have never happened, the Confederacy should have seceded.

#10 Posted by KnightRise (3950 posts) - 7 months, 55 minutes ago - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@jobiwankenobi said:
I feel that "darkey" reference is untrue.
Anyway, the states aren't actually going to secede or even try to. It's just their way of saying they're upset with this and this is what they think of it. Clearly it is working if people get this worked up about it.
I think you're confusing random dudes mussing over it on the internet with people actually being worked up. Because let's face it, we're not exactly a representative sample.

Exactly.

#11 Posted by jobiwankenobi (1459 posts) - 7 months, 26 minutes ago - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@jobiwankenobi said:
I feel that "darkey" reference is untrue.
Anyway, the states aren't actually going to secede or even try to. It's just their way of saying they're upset with this and this is what they think of it. Clearly it is working if people get this worked up about it.
I think you're confusing random dudes mussing over it on the internet with people actually being worked up. Because let's face it, we're not exactly a representative sample.

Oh, I know that everything is blown out of proportion on the internet. Actually it seems the internet is taking it more lightly than I expected. People at my school are whom I am referring to. They were all making a pretty big deal out of it. Especially seeing as how we're in one of the states that "wants" to secede.

#12 Posted by charlieboy (7048 posts) - 6 months, 30 days ago - Show Bio

I think this is just best ignored. This is not the first time this has happened. It has just go more media coverage. It is just angry people whose candidate lost their election. It is sour grapes. I doubt any of them are truly serious about secession. And I am sorry I do believe that racism does have something to do with this. Not every single person that is angry is racist but I have seen lots of comments about his race in a negative manner. Just calling it like i see it.

#13 Posted by KingUranus (212 posts) - 6 months, 30 days ago - Show Bio

@Vortex13 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: Uhm, the KKK are not liberals....

Actually they are and most are democrat. They use that party because it is the only one liberal enough that they can utilize it freely with out fear of removal. They feel they are a special rights group. Who do the democrats support? Special Rights groups, right? Ya I have lived around them many years. They hate Catholics and Masons as well. Another reason why my family is always armed. In my opinion, you can't get any more liberal than a KKK or any other Special Rights group for that matter.

#14 Posted by KingUranus (212 posts) - 6 months, 30 days ago - Show Bio

They are also against the gay community, so if you are gay and support the democrats, you are in the same boat as a klansman. Sad to hear but true.

#15 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - 6 months, 30 days ago - Show Bio

@Vortex13 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: Uhm, the KKK are not liberals....

They are.

Any group that are in need of support for a particular agenda that benefits a group of people while categorizing other people in protest of their interest are liberals. In contrast, conservatism doesn't focus on these special interest. Instead, they focus on a status quot that is suppose to benefit the country altogether instead of separate groups of the country.

#16 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - 6 months, 30 days ago - Show Bio

@jobiwankenobi said:

I feel that "darkey" reference is untrue.
Anyway, the states aren't actually going to secede or even try to. It's just their way of saying they're upset with this and this is what they think of it. Clearly it is working if people get this worked up about it.

I feel I agree with this.

#17 Posted by charlieboy (7048 posts) - 6 months, 30 days ago - Show Bio

Even if the KKK members are registered democrats their views are hardly liberal.

#18 Posted by charlieboy (7048 posts) - 6 months, 30 days ago - Show Bio

I was doing some research on the KKK's political affiliations. In the past they were affiliated with Democrats. But the Democrats of the time were much more conservative and were very much like the Republicans of today. Also I doubt very much that the KKK support the party that gave us our first non-white President.

#19 Edited by Vaeternus (4219 posts) - 6 months, 29 days ago - Show Bio

This whole notion of "owe conservatives want to leave cause Obama etc" the libs have said the same thing when Bush was in, this nothing new except again another prime example of hypocrisy in politics. And we all know Gore was UBER sour when he lost to Bush, the libs said the same thing with "voter fraud" etc

This KKK is old news, but I do find it interesting that Obama associates with the Black Panthers(who are more or less the black version of the KKK) since a few of my ultra liberal friends have told me "KKK are often Republicans" which isn't even true.

I do find it funny how people think Republicans are always "racists" yet

KKK-been linked to liberals

Black Panthers-Been linked to Obama(who is obviously liberal)

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

Only the KKK or other racist groups would think what had been stated as "darkey thinking above himself" -And they are liberals.

At first I thought you were a liberal then possibly republican, but now not so sure. Independent? Libertarian?

Online

#20 Posted by mikethekiller (7181 posts) - 6 months, 29 days ago - Show Bio

I'm so sick and tired of this damned conservative, liberal bullsh**, all it does is keep people divided.

#21 Posted by Vaeternus (4219 posts) - 6 months, 29 days ago - Show Bio

Well, that's what's so great about America. If everyone was the same it would be dull and pointless. No individualism would prove bad in the longrun.

Online

#22 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - 6 months, 28 days ago - Show Bio

@Vaeternus said:

This whole notion of "owe conservatives want to leave cause Obama etc" the libs have said the same thing when Bush was in, this nothing new except again another prime example of hypocrisy in politics. And we all know Gore was UBER sour when he lost to Bush, the libs said the same thing with "voter fraud" etc
This KKK is old news, but I do find it interesting that Obama associates with the Black Panthers(who are more or less the black version of the KKK) since a few of my ultra liberal friends have told me "KKK are often Republicans" which isn't even true.
I do find it funny how people think Republicans are always "racists" yet
KKK-been linked to liberals
Black Panthers-Been linked to Obama(who is obviously liberal)
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:
Only the KKK or other racist groups would think what had been stated as "darkey thinking above himself" -And they are liberals.
At first I thought you were a liberal then possibly republican, but now not so sure. Independent? Libertarian?

What made you think I was liberal?

I have a conservative mentality, but I support the Libertarian Party whom I believe are more balanced focusing on the status quot and the liberty of its people. The Republicans and Democrats are intertwined: Thinking too far to the right means swinging around back into a liberals point of view. On the other hands, for the Democrats: Thinking too far to the left means swinging around back into a conservatives point of view. It's like a circle. So in order to fix things the right way, we need to be more consistent with the balance of what needs to be done. Liberalism, not all people are going to agree because it of course, fights for the cause of the people. Conservatism is supposed to keep in check of a republic that leaves the people alone while its people are the ones that make the country strive; not the government. But these days they've been swinging around in this circle making the government bigger that it has to be in claim for its people. That's Neoconservatism; aka, liberalism. In addition, there is also Neoliberalism; where liberal parties agree that the rich should become richer while the poor remains poor to have a strong working class. But both neocoservitism and neoliberalism (The new Republicans and Democrats) are showing their true colors by their actions of how they initiate trades and use their money for these trades including warfare, creating money siphoning special interest groups that do nothing more productively for the economy but fight eachother. Why support a government that spends on meaningless interest like the ACLU, NAMBLA, KKK, Black Panthers, PETA, National Lawyers Guild and hundreds of other groups/agencies that just suck up money nonproductively. On top of them, we have the Federal Reserve and the IRS.

#23 Edited by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - 6 months, 28 days ago - Show Bio

@Vaeternus said:

Well, that's what's so great about America. If everyone was the same it would be dull and pointless. No individualism would prove bad in the longrun.

I agree, but too much freedom of individuality would also prove bad in the long run. So that's why just stick to the Old Republic with some fixes that are better adapted with this day of age.

#24 Posted by Vaeternus (4219 posts) - 6 months, 28 days ago - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Vaeternus said:
This whole notion of "owe conservatives want to leave cause Obama etc" the libs have said the same thing when Bush was in, this nothing new except again another prime example of hypocrisy in politics. And we all know Gore was UBER sour when he lost to Bush, the libs said the same thing with "voter fraud" etc
This KKK is old news, but I do find it interesting that Obama associates with the Black Panthers(who are more or less the black version of the KKK) since a few of my ultra liberal friends have told me "KKK are often Republicans" which isn't even true.
I do find it funny how people think Republicans are always "racists" yet
KKK-been linked to liberals
Black Panthers-Been linked to Obama(who is obviously liberal)
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:
Only the KKK or other racist groups would think what had been stated as "darkey thinking above himself" -And they are liberals.
At first I thought you were a liberal then possibly republican, but now not so sure. Independent? Libertarian?
What made you think I was liberal?
I have a conservative mentality, but I support the Libertarian Party whom I believe are more balanced focusing on the status quot and the liberty of its people. The Republicans and Democrats are intertwined: Thinking too far to the right means swinging around back into a liberals point of view. On the other hands, for the Democrats: Thinking too far to the left means swinging around back into a conservatives point of view. It's like a circle. So in order to fix things the right way, we need to be more consistent with the balance of what needs to be done. Liberalism, not all people are going to agree because it of course, fights for the cause of the people. Conservatism is supposed to keep in check of a republic that leaves the people alone while its people are the ones that make the country strive; not the government. But these days they've been swinging around in this circle making the government bigger that it has to be in claim for its people. That's Neoconservatism; aka, liberalism. In addition, there is also Neoliberalism; where liberal parties agree that the rich should become richer while the poor remains poor to have a strong working class. But both neocoservitism and neoliberalism (The new Republicans and Democrats) are showing their true colors by their actions of how they initiate trades and use their money for these trades including warfare, creating money siphoning special interest groups that do nothing more productively for the economy but fight eachother. Why support a government that spends on meaningless interest like the ACLU, NAMBLA, KKK, Black Panthers, PETA, National Lawyers Guild and hundreds of other groups/agencies that just suck up money nonproductively. On top of them, we have the Federal Reserve and the IRS.

Ahh, ok perhaps maybe I was getting you confused with someone else or I misunderstood one of your past posts. Given the sheer amount of liberals on here, I tend to forget the who aren't lol.

I see, yeah you're like a few of my friends. Roxanne for one on here is a libertarian, and one of my close friends is also while he's apart of the Republican party his ideals are more libertarian. I know he was a huge fan of Ron Paul.

Not sure I agree with the too far right and left being liberal then conservative again, unless you mean extreme both ways is bad which I agree.

But yeah, personally after the last election I'm all for a new party that's aimed more at conservatives if you know what I mean. Similar I guess to a tea party but little different, the Republican party seems to eat their own and I just don't agree with anything liberals believe in personally. Libertarians I respect though, they have an interesting philosophy that's a mix of their beliefs with some conservative ideals. I'm more conservative(not your typical Republican which these days seem more moderate imo outside of a few), but used to be an independent for many years.

But yeah I agree, that's why I'm more for oldschool conservatives and some libertarians. I've also noticed a lot of times of late Republicans(not the hardcore conservatives like say Newt) or even Ron Paul, the rest seem to bend over for the liberal party or try to work with them but to me that's pointless if you're against their ideals. Know what I mean? I too am NOT for government controlling everything, I don't like the socialist like ideals of government giving everyone hand outs to make everyone "equal" totally agree.

You seem like you really follow politics a lot.

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Vaeternus said:
Well, that's what's so great about America. If everyone was the same it would be dull and pointless. No individualism would prove bad in the longrun.
I agree, but too much freedom of individuality would also prove bad in the long run. So that's why just stick to the Old Republic with some fixes that are better adapted with this day of age.

Oh well I'm not saying anarchy lol or anything which would lead to chaos, no governments etc is bad I agree. But I mean, you know being all the same color, beliefs like a bunch of drones is equally as bad like a world like Beast Machines Megatron's vision lol. Also, I take it you're NOT for altering the constitution like some people these days want?

Online

#25 Posted by Paracelsus (1039 posts) - 6 months, 27 days ago - Show Bio

How has Obama supported or endorsed the new Black Panthers- or they him? From what I can see , he has kept his distance from them- and vice versa( more BS about "voter fraud" and "bribes"- shades of Rick Santorum's infamous "blah people just want free stuff" statement from sore loser Republicans)!

Terry

#26 Edited by Vaeternus (4219 posts) - 6 months, 27 days ago - Show Bio

How? Obama has been linked regardless to the Black Panthers despite the lamestream media failing to report to keep his distance from them now to prevent looking bad but the fact of the matter is has associated with the Black Panthers being my point.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/30/Federal-Court-Determines-Obama-Admin-Interfered-In-New-Black-Panthers-Case-For-Political-Reasons

http://moonbattery.com/?p=14923

And again, Democrate in 2000 want to talk about sore losers? That's why the libs demanded 100 recounts in Florida right? lol I love people with a selective memory.

Online

#27 Posted by kuonphobos (3173 posts) - 6 months, 26 days ago - Show Bio

I think the sentiment of seccession has more to do with perceived trends in the direction that the USA is moving towards big government and government involvement in what once were personal freedoms than it does with racism.

I think that the frequency of bringing up racism is also racism. By focusing on it and constantly making it the focal point of a perceived attack only demonstrates that it is central in one's understanding thus making one a racist.

I really don't care about Obama's race. If Herman Cain had been more of a viable candidate I would have had no problem whatever supporting him. I oppose Obama because of his policies just as I did Al Gore, John Kerry or Bill Clinton. None of whom I might add was African-American.