Should force users be overpowered or grounded?

Well define overpowered and grounded? Because you're gonna have different answers.

Apart from some select characters thus far for Disney SW, such as Vader, Palpatine, Yoda, Rey and Luke. I haven't exactly seen any 'overpowered' Force Users compared to those ones. So I would be fine for select characters as these to be the more 'overpowered' ones due to how they are written to be, whereas other Force Users who aren't them, should be more or less the 'grounded' ones.

Edit: Double checked the poll.

If SW doesn’t want to suffer in the same way comic book and superhero movies suffer, then all of them should be ground with one or two outliers.

What the Skywalker Saga has created is the same thing happening with the MCU right now, which is an escalation problem. The heroes and villains continually have to become more powerful than the previous ones.

The OT was great. The PT started this trend, TCW continued it, the ST confirmed it, and now the canon OT comics and novels are driving it home.

Instead of quality stories, they are just creating “bigger and more powerful.” That’s how your burn your audience out.

For example, the High Republic has told some excellent stories, but the Jedi appear weak when compared to the Skywalker Saga.

@wolfrazer: Overpowered for me would be the feats FUs can do in media like TFU and Clone Wars(2003). Grounded would be media like most of TCW, the OT, and the PT.

They should be overpowered simply because it makes more sense and gives a lot more scale and weight to things.

Answer is they should be overpowered because you're asking the question in a battle forum where feats are the most important

Power is a central theme in SW. The dark side is alluring because it's more powerful. If the characters are only street tier then the theme doesn't mean much.

@jedisympathiz3r: Ok so you’re bringing in EU. Overpowered and Grounded is relative to the setting. The feats in TFU and the Microseries aren’t overpowered mainly due to the fact the characters involved and the setting.

How Force Users are written in the EU even down to the mere Force Adepts is the difference. Your generic Force User is pretty powerful already, even without formal training from a Jedi or Sith. When you get to them, the power scale just goes up and up.

Compared to Disney Canon, what I’ve seen your generic Force User has been written WAY below to what they were before. Now in this case you could very well say there’s a huge gap with being overpowered and grounded. This also falling the same with some of the characters save for a select few obviously.

@frozen: I thought the idea was that the dark side is not more powerful, it’s just easier.

“Is the dark side stronger?” Luke asks. “No, no, no,” Yoda assures him. “Quicker, easier, more seductive.”

@eredin12: Wasn’t that Temple thing specifically designed to be moved by 2 using the Force? I mean Kanan and a noob Ezra also did it from what I recall.

But yeah I get there’s instances of it, but it’s not like consistent across the board in various showings.

@eredin12: Pretty sure it was, but I’ll check later. Also yeah but that’s Kylo, he’s supposed to be at top tier(supposedly anyway) so his showings aren’t really generic or common. Of course he does seem inconsistent.

Though honestly I feel like gravity helped in that instance as well.

@eredin12: He still has that vast Force potential to draw upon, even if he couldn’t access it fully. Similar I think to Like shaking an entire ISR, but we see later he can’t do that big.

The only genuinely overpowered force users I've seen in SW are Luke and Sidious, and even then they were destined to be the most powerful of their respective orders.

They should be overpowered if

A. They have great potential

B. They've trained extensively

@eredin12: Right, but it’s not like we haven’t had Force Users tapping into their potential at various points in specific instances. I guess so, though there are going to be inconsistencies between writers, but that’s normal I suppose.

@zafros13: That's true. But it is powerful nonetheless.

Top tiers should cap out at large building level IMO. With it only being possible to do more with rituals and prep. I think what they went with saying the movies are the true version of things while everything else is exaggerated. We get an idea of how this worked with the TFU Legacy duels as well. Just compare the exaggerated TFU version

To the real one

Ultimately Force users aren't meant to be super heroes. Fun as it is to wank them as such I think its more consistent in the verse they be maybe like MCU Caps with occasional TK showings. Which them constantly being tagged or struggling with humans is what is intended.

Grounded. I lose interest when force users start ripping Star Destroyers out of the sky (*cough* *cough* Force Unleashed *cough* *cough*).

@greysentinel365:

Ultimately Force users aren't meant to be super heroes. Fun as it is to wank them as such I think its more consistent in the verse they be maybe like MCU Caps with occasional TK showings. Which them constantly being tagged or struggling with humans is what is intended.

Honestly of all your comments, this one might be most completely incorrect one . You say " they are not meant to be super heroes", but meant by whom? Lucas? Maybe not, but he is not only writer, numerous other writers wrote them too, and had them operating far above those levels. Even Kanan has feats far above building level

It is clear that what Genndy Tartakovsky intended for them to be is not what Dave Filoni did

Problem is that your comment is based on disproven notion that movies are only thing that matters, which is not case any longer, hierarchy never even exist4ed in Disney canon and it did not exist in Legends for a long time.

Depends on the legend.

Overpowered force users kind of throw off the balance in the verses power for me…

Like In Legends how in the ever loving hell were Mandalorians holding their own in a war against the Jedi???

I like having that sweet spot between street tier and overpowered planetary entity. It's fun to have these crazy TK feats or having them blitz and react to crazy stuff. But when a non-Force-user ducks a blaster bolt, it kind of throws scaling out of wack. Either everyone and their mother is light-speed, or the lasers are the speed of baseballs. I'd at least like them to be bullet-speed consistently so Jedi aren't slow enough to get gunned down by some real-world mook with a pistol. I don't think anyone in Star Wars (outside of the Mortis Gods or weird deity/amped characters) should be planetary. Well, them and Dearth Nadir, who is clearly the most powerful being in the verse.

@a_fine_edition:

It's fun to have these crazy TK feats or having them blitz and react to crazy stuff. But when a non-Force-user ducks a blaster bolt, it kind of throws scaling out of wack. Either everyone and their mother is light-speed, or the lasers are the speed of baseballs.

Or maybe characters can have outliers. if blasters are confirmed to be light speed and nothing but light speed by every source that talks about their speed, which is the case, only one other source tells us that they are faster than hypersonic slugthrowers, but that does not mean they are only hypersonic, it just means that they are faster than hypersonic slugs, which is the case due to them being light speed, but if that is the case, then it does not matter who dodges them, that does not change their confirmed speed. Samurai Jack, peak human in his verse, dodged an actual sunlight for example. But that does not mean that light itself is slow or that light itself is not light speed . it can only be question of are those feats outliers for those characters or not. And when it comes to force users, not only are blasters confirmed to be light speed, but force users themselves have been confirmed to be fighting at FTL as well in Legends , Dooku for example in AOTC. Obi Wan in ROTS and so fort.

I'd at least like them to be bullet-speed consistently so Jedi aren't slow enough to get gunned down by some real-world mook with a pistol.

Thing is , this has nothing to do with liking something or not, what matters is mainly how fast something objectively is. We might like for blasters to be at least bullet speed but if they are not, what we would like would not matter in the end. Fortunately, blasters have indeed been confirmed to be much faster than bullet speed by every single source that talks about their speed.

I don't think anyone in Star Wars (outside of the Mortis Gods or weird deity/amped characters) should be planetary.

Why not though ? In Legends, they have such feats. Not all of them of course, your average Jedi is nowhere near that level, but certain high tiers are around that level.

@j_normal: I mean a war is something huge with many different factors going on at once, though many instances with Jedi vs Mandos, generally the Jedi came out ontop. IE: Ulic, Revan, Surik, that one Jedi who spared that other Mandalorian(Kelborn? Braelor? Can't recall who in Kotor 2 stated he fought a Jedi and was spared).

They shouldn't be able to handwave entire fleets and armies. Honestly, just go by the movies, those are pretty much the best portrayal of force users.

I don't have a problem with games going overboard (as that's the point).

@wolfrazer:

I understand that but if im not mistaken Jedi in legends can range from City Level to planet level in the force correct? I find it hard to believe Jedi couldn’t put down the Mandalorians war within a few days or weeks.

Forceusers should not have a static power level, it should be based on their situational focus and emotional state, as well as the will of the force. Shouldn't be able to perform feats outside of like large building tier without rituals.

Not opposed to Sidious force storm and nihilus planetary drain, as these are powers with specifically way larger reach due to the nature of the abilities, and does not portray their abilities on a general scale: Sidious can destroy fleets with force storm, but his lightning is still room-level. Nihilus can drain planets, but he's still a regular forceuser otherwise.

Dyad Sidious says hi.

Lucas's movies were too underpowered. As much as I give Disney shit, they have the right idea by portraying Vader as pulling down mid sized ships and ripping them apart. Old school legends debaters who argue "movies are the true power levels" probably had a heart attack when they saw Vader ripping apart that ship in OWK.

Nah, they were still powerful (aside from silly scenes like that Rancor fight), without taking away all the other cool stuff

What's the point of space battles, if a single dude can handwave entire fleets?

What's the point of speeder chases, if a single dude can already run faster than light?

What's the point of gangsters, bounty hunters, and giant monsters, if single dude can turn them into a mush with his pinky?

What's the point of dogfights, if a single dude can crush all opponents just by reaching out his hand?

Super powerful force users might be a cool one time spectacle, but you sacrifice every other cool part about Star Wars

@eredin12: I assumed this was about where we’d like the verse to be or where it SHOULD be in our opinion, not where it actually is currently. My points still stand. How fast and how powerful characters are currently or in the EU is not what I’m talking about. In my opinion even having high tiers that can TK planets or mind control whole civilizations is too much. For example, I think Darth Nihilus’ drain ability is way too powerful to the point of ludicrousness. Having the power to completely drain the energy of a whole planet without an amp is so far beyond anything shown in the films or shows. Or Sidious’ Force Storms that have galaxy-wide range and can annihilate whole fleets.

In my opinion all these Old Republic and post-OT characters having mythic status and feats dwarfing anyone in the Prequels and OT is detrimental to the stakes and reputation of the classic characters. It makes people like Yoda come off like pipsqueaks in comparison.

@j_normal: The Planet level Jedi are few and far between, like they are a very small percentage in the EU. But even then Jedi generally restrict themselves due to their training due to the Dark Side.

Now Dark Side Jedi, that’s a whole different thing. They appear more powerful due to less restriction, but as Yoda says the Darkside isn’t stronger, it’s just more aggressive.

@a_fine_edition:

@eredin12: I assumed this was about where we’d like the verse to be or where it SHOULD be in your opinion, not where it actually is currently. My points still stand.

Well that is fine in terms of what you would like, but I just wanted to say that blasters are consistently much faster than bullets

How fast and how powerful characters are currently is not what I’m talking about. In my opinion even having high tiers that can TK planets or mind control whole civilizations is too much. For example, I think Darth Nihilus’ drain ability is way too powerful to the point of ludicrousness. Having the power to completely drain the energy of a whole planet without an amp is so far beyond anything shown in the films or shows. Or Sidious’ Force Storms that have galaxy-wide range and can annihilate whole fleets. In my opinion all these Old Republic and post-OT characters having mythic status and feats dwarfing anyone in the Prequels and OT is detrimental to the stakes and reputation of the classic characters. It makes people like Yoda come off like pipsqueaks in comparison.

I definitely agree that it is far above what we saw in OT/PQ but tbh I do not think that they need to follow what we saw there, Expend Universe in either canon or legends did not follow that. Someone like Vader having those crazy moments makes sense and shows why galaxy feared him , much more so than if he was street tier you could gang up on and take out with your gang. Speaking about Yoda, outside of movies/TCW he himself has showed good feats as well. He effortlessly slammed together two 370 meters large capital ships, which that can take shots from Star Destroyers , hard enough to destroy them both:

In canon, he also overpowered force resistant mountain and he would just scale over some of the feats we see less powerful characters perform, so I do not think that it makes him look bad. On contrary, he is often portrayed as force of nature who can take out entire armies with a wave of his hand:

Or blitz them before they are even able to move:

@firefly489:

Nah, they were still powerful (aside from silly scenes like that Rancor fight), without taking away all the other cool stuff

Eh, not really. TCW and Lucas movies at times portrays them as being so weak that you could gang up on them bunch of friends and take them out, it takes much from them that way.

What's the point of space battles, if a single dude can handwave entire fleets? What's the point of speeder chases, if a single dude can already run faster than light?

I mean we are talking about galaxy wide conflict where most of the fighting on those speeders or ships will not be done by high level force users who are too few and far in between. Take One Punch Man for example, just because you have characters like Tatsumaki around, does not mean that there is no need for much weaker A or B class heroes, they have their uses as well

What's the point of gangsters, bounty hunters, and giant monsters, if single dude can turn them into a mush with his pinky?

Well first of all you need to have lower level characters in any setting. This is kind of like saying what is point of normal Ninjas in Naruto when you have Madara or Naruto. Those bounty hunters do not spent most of their time figthing with powerful force users, they do other, easier tasks as well, and even when they do deal with high tier force users , they often use their brains to figure out other methods, for example In TFU2, Boba Fett knew that if he faced Starkiller head on he would be blown to atoms, so he avoided direct confrontation.

@eredin12: Star Wars is not a superhero setting. If the Sith could destroy planets then the Death Star would be entirely pointless. Making force users overpowered defeats the entire point of A New Hope.

I remember a scene where Vader holds back a ton of water in Fallen Order, which was called to weigh more than the Titanic and Big Ben combined. I think that's where the highest tier force users should cap off. So essentially around multi-building level.

Never claimed Disney had good writing

@superdarth:

@eredin12: Star Wars is not a superhero setting. If the Sith could destroy planets then the Death Star would be entirely pointless. Making force users overpowered defeats the entire point of A New Hope.

Sure It is not superhero setting in sense that characters are not called super heroes, just like in most manga/ anime/games characters with powers are not called super heroes either , but it is still about characters with super hero like powers. As for death star, problem is that you are missing entire point of Sidious as character. He is puppet master who works behind scenes , he does not like doing dirty work himself. What would be the point of him being Emperor if he had to do dirty work personally?

I remember a scene where Vader holds back a ton of water in Fallen Order, which was called to weigh more than the Titanic and Big Ben combined. I think that's where the highest tier force users should cap off. So essentially around multi-building level.

Well issue is that canon shows other wise. I think that Superman should cap at room level, but clearly writers disagree with me there too.

@cheth: There is no bad writing regarding that feat.

There is bad writing regarding the ST as a whole. Lets not even begin to talk about individual scenes

Palpatine's entire presence in that movie is bad writing.

Surely you don't think Jedi and Sith should be able to wipe out entire fleets and destroy planets, do you? Because that would be absurd lmao

@superdarth: Not every Jedi of course, most Jedi/Sith should not be nearly that strong of course . Some talented , but still normal Jedi like say Cal Kestis for canon , are more of city scale threats . They can beat characters like Geralt/ Spider Man/Wesker for example but that is where they are . But someone like Vader, Sidious, Yoda should be able to do those type of things , especially in Legends. They cannot destroy planet again, they lack that range, but their attack potency should be up there. Hence we have Sidious taking out fleet in Rise of Skywalker for example. Or Yoda destroying capital ships with just wave of his hand

Serious question: Do you even like the movies?

No matter which media, plot always works better with grounded characters. including Marvel and DC. Writers don't have to change power levels each time they get into new arc with bigger threats in hero's journey settings.

Flashy fight scenes and big destructive combat feats are cool but only momentarily. For example I lost all of my interest in One Punch Man after MA arc, because writers trying to shove Saitama, a character who recently destroyed thousands of solar systems into a plot nobody cares. Why random Espers are important when we just recently witnessed the end of universe in an alternate timeline?

X character in your fanfiction busted a planet. Now everytime X fights with someone he will threat the planet he is standing on and you have to prepare the plot for the fight. Instead you can just get city block level fights and nothing would happen, but you can also enjoy the plot. Bad side, your fav fictional character won't be powerful.