Is Haki Energy

So, speaking as an anime nerd, many, particularly shonen, have some kind of energy used to fuel attacks.

Naruto has chakra

Dragon Ball has ki

Shaman King has furyou

Bleach has Reatsu

Yu Yu Hakusho has spirit and demon energy that also probbaly has a japanese word that I'm too lazy to look up.

Anyway, this thread is to determine the general consensus if Haki is One Piece's "energy". I'm saying right at the get go that I do not believe it is but with a number of others that do feel this way I am eager to see what others think and to debate them.

@lowlaville

Haki is a kind of energy by itself. It's just not multi purpose, as Haki only have three uses, a concept of mind, body and soul. This means, Haki embued attacks, targeting Dark Schneider for example can kill him on all 3 planes of existence.

Chakra can do multiple jutsu. Ki in Dragon Ball can do similar things. Reiryoku in Bleach can do multiple things like Hado, Kido and other things. Haki only has three uses. It directly taxes the user, we have come to know of this. The limit is the users potential with it, this much have been proven.

If Haki was an independent source of energy, it would have the same results on everyone. It does not.

Also, while I don't read YYH, the name of energy it uses is probably called Youki. ooooooooor Yoki or something.

@lowlaville:

Haki is a kind of energy by itself. It's just not multi purpose, as Haki only have three uses, a concept of mind, body and soul. This means, Haki embued attacks, targeting Dark Schneider for example can kill him on all 3 planes of existence.

Chakra can do multiple jutsu. Ki in Dragon Ball can do similar things. Reiryoku in Bleach can do multiple things like Hado, Kido and other things. Haki only has three uses. It directly taxes the user, we have come to know of this. The limit is the users potential with it, this much have been proven.

If Haki was an independent source of energy, it would have the same results on everyone. It does not.

Also, while I don't read YYH, the name of energy it uses is probably called Youki. ooooooooor Yoki or something.

First

Second How doe sHaki not have the same effect son everyone? You mean conquerer's haki? It's, to use my comparison from the other thread again kinda, the default two versions of haki would be like normal ninjutsu. Whereas conquerer's haki would be like a kekkei genkai of some sort.

@loumast: There are different levels of Haki users. Reyleigh and Garp can apparantly use Busoshoku Haki without the skin turning black effect and hurt people just randomely. Garp and Reyleigh are the only people I know that does this. Haki is strong and weak depending on who uses it, just like any other skill in DBZ, Bleach, Naruto or YYH.

@lowlaville:

There are different levels of Haki users. Reyleigh and Garp can apparantly use Busoshoku Haki without the skin turning black effect and hurt people just randomely. Garp and Reyleigh are the only people I know that does this. Haki is strong and weak depending on who uses it, just like any other skill in DBZ, Bleach, Naruto or YYH.

Yeah... no. Well, there are different level of haki users, just like there are different levels of techique users in naruto or bleach. In Naruto the second hokage was able to make an uber powerful water dragon with no water while zabuza and kakashi needed to be in a body of water for similar effects. And in bleach some shinigami need incantations to make Kido powerful, some can do it without, and some can barely do it at all. Also, the instances of haki not changing color is either a more advanced version, which yes, haki does get more powerful with a person, or it was an art style difference between pre and post time skip.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141222181626/onepiece/images/4/40/Garp_vs._Chinjao.png

"art style difference"?

Haki has different levels depending on who is using it. Take Garp vs Chinjao if you will. Garp managed to flatten Chinjao's head, with Haki embodiment on it. Thus, Garp's Haki was superior.

Like anything else shown in Bleach or Naruto, Haki is as much subjective to training, levels and effectiveness as any energy based medium of reinforcement, technique or power.

Lightning release armor by Raikage A and 3rd Raikage is different. Madara with the basic Sharingan was far better than Sasuke at that point in the 4th Shinobi War.

There are many many examples of the likeness of technique having being mastered or talented to various degrees of effectiveness. Haki is no different. Magically, using Haki does not not make a technique absolute. Otherwise, Garp would not have been able to beat Chinjao. It is governed by the strength of the user.

For instance, giving Hanabi all 3 forms of Haki does not mean she will be able to best someone like Eneru. That's impossible.

@lowlaville: I agree with all of this. It does nothing to show that Haki is any kind of energy though.

But yes, art style difference. You mentioned garp not making his hand turn black for armament haki

Then why are you contradicting yourself? You agree that Haki is a form of energy, yet you are saying you don't believe it is. Either you do or you don't. Which is it? If you agree with my post, then you do; and there is no question, or you don't; in which case you do not believe it is energy.

Don't agree with my post and say Haki is energy. That's a contradiction. My post explains why Haki is a form of energy. You are against the idea. Show some consistency.

There are two instances I remember with garp.

- One: Reunion with Luffy and punting Luffy's head.
- Two: Bringing down Marco
- Three: Reyleigh poked Luffy to hurt him, with no visible Busoshoku Haki applied to his finger.

No one else has used Haki like this to my knowledge.

@lowlaville:

Then why are you contradicting yourself? You agree that Haki is a form of energy, yet you are saying you don't believe it is. Either you do or you don't. Which is it? If you agree with my post, then you do; and there is no question, or you don't; in which case you do not believe it is energy.

Don't agree with my post and say Haki is energy. That's a contradiction. My post explains why Haki is a form of energy. You are against the idea. Show some consistency.

There are two instances I remember with garp.

- One: Reunion with Luffy and punting Luffy's head.

- Two: Bringing down Marco

- Three: Reyleigh poked Luffy to hurt him, with no visible Busoshoku Haki applied to his finger.

No one else has used Haki like this to my knowledge.

In my first reading I thought nothing in your previous post mentioned haki being energy. Upon rereading I found I may have been wrong.

Haki has different levels depending on who is using it. Take Garp vs Chinjao if you will. Garp managed to flatten Chinjao's head, with Haki embodiment on it. Thus, Garp's Haki was superior.

No mention of Haki being energy just that garp's haki, specifically armament haki but assumedly all three types, are greater. Which I agree with.

Like anything else shown in Bleach or Naruto, Haki is as much subjective to training, levels and effectiveness as any energy based medium of reinforcement, technique or power.

You specifically say "Energy based medium of reinforcement, technique or power." So an application of energy. Otherwise agree with the thought that haki can be increased through training.

Lightning release armor by Raikage A and 3rd Raikage is different. Madara with the basic Sharingan was far better than Sasuke at that point in the 4th Shinobi War.

I'll admit I may have glazed over this part... so fair point. I don't agree with everything. My mistake. I think... you're saying the lighting armor is different than haki? If that's the case then I do disagree. Sorry again.

There are many many examples of the likeness of technique having being mastered or talented to various degrees of effectiveness. Haki is no different. Magically, using Haki does not not make a technique absolute. Otherwise, Garp would not have been able to beat Chinjao. It is governed by the strength of the user.

Pretty sure you called Haki a technique here... "There are many many examples of the likeness of technique having being mastered or talented to various degrees of effectiveness. Haki is no different." But yeah, again. I never said Haki is absolute. haki can be overpowered by more powerful haki or bysheer stat differences. Example is Marigold's observation haki being overcome by Luffy's G2.

For instance, giving Hanabi all 3 forms of Haki does not mean she will be able to best someone like Eneru. That's impossible.

C'mon... impossible is a strong word... even if it is true v.v poor Hanabi.

Now then, are you talking about non black skin when using haki? because I also showed when Garp did use it and had black skin. I'm not saying it didn't happen of course. Also there's no real reason that shows it's energy.

The sharingan and other dojutsu are not energy, the super sayain transformation is not energy and shikai and bankai are not energy. They are all caused by energy.

If haki is energy what does it fuel?

In response to you saying you proved it in your last post obviously I don't see it. recently on a subbed episode of One Piece the translation had reyleigh compare Haki to the 5 senses. I don't know how accurate the translation is, but figured I'd mention it.

Any of you guys wanna put your opinion in?

@dratini1331@darrellacoustic@homicidalmaniac@pierpat@funsiized@princearagorn1@cooldes@jmarshmallow@soothing_sounds@ghostravage@nighthunder@redbird3rdboywonder@cjdavis103@ssj_god@rexorr@pacpanda@jacthripper

I will go this step by step.

1. Therefore, you agree that Haki has different levels of mastery.
2. An application of energy based reinforcement, yes. Or do you not remember Reyleigh saying Haki can be enbued in weapons. Or do you not remember Haki making Luffy's punches stronger? Haki cannot just reinforce the user's body, but the weapon, which can be regarded as an extension of your body if you will. This goes to prove that Haki can be applied to exterior elements other than your own body, which shows that Haki is a wield-able energy.
3. Disagree as you will. But you will need to tell me why you disagree. Otherwise you are just refusing to acknowledge an argument despite not having any counters to it. This shows stubborness. I'm not saying lightning release is any different from Haki. What I'm saying is, Lightning release, an energy based technique, shows the same level of mastery as Haki can be used to achieve, which is different.

The second example was meant to show that unique-trait based objects, like doujutsu can also have different levels of mastery. Chakra is used to activate and use Sharingan, but again, depending on the user, the effect is better or worse even if the object is the same. This was meant to show that even Hoashoku Haki could have varied levels, and we know that it had no effect on vice admirals or up levels.
4. Excellent. This shows that you believe Haki is not at all absolute. Like any other technique, it depends how good you are with it. It also shows that Haki is limited to different users capability with it. For instance, Ussop exceeds at Observation Haki, a variation especially used for long range sniping. Every user can only enhance and use Haki in the field of mastery that he dwells in.

As I've explained before, Haki is a concept of spiritual energy that is used to reinforce body, mind and (the last technique can release the spirit in pure form as intimidation).
5. Yes, Hanabi is screwed.
6. In fact, the significance is that it is an energy based application. I have only seen two users with the level of mastery though.
7. Concepts of energies. Sharingan actively uses chakra to even activate and run. Saiyens can only keep on going if they have stamina and ki to sustain themselves. Zampakutou uses a user's reiryoku to menifest and go on, though they themselves are capable of working independently.
8. Haki is not a mainstream energy, it's a self reinforcement ability for the most part, and only on two occasions does this energy come out. That is conqueror's Haki and what Reyleigh talked about Haki being imbued in weapons.
9. If you don't see how it proves my point, you need to deject on my arguments.

And, like I said, Haki empowers body, mind and soul. Reinforcing the 5 senses is not a bad translation at all. It's an inner medium of energy that can A: Improve sight B: Improve Hearing C: Improved smell? D: Improve touch (this may refer to Armament Haki) E: Taste (not sure how this works either). We may have yet to see these uses.

A, B and D is quite possible. Though I'd count Haki as a 6th sense.

@lowlaville:

1: Yes

2: Lighting release can be imbued to weapons too in naruto. Admittedly yes there are people that use pure chakra to do it like chakra blades, butthen there are people like A or sasuke who focus an attack through a weapon.

3: See number 2 mostly. I'll give you the similarity in being able to imbue haki as well as chakra into weapons, but that doesn't translate into them being the same thing. I'm admitting this property does make them similar in that regard, but if we look at "energy" as a whole then the other universes have something that haki is not. In all fo them haki is used to charge attacks, or be built up and then focused. In... most I'll say, it can even be shared to power up others. Haki doesn't do that. Haki is fueled by the will/spirit/non mystical energy of people. By non mystical I means imilar to biologic functions like irl.

I get what you're doing, but to me it just makes haki seem even more like a "technique" Event he sharingan can imbue weapons with properties. Liek an amaterasu sword or kamui shuriken. Now yeah, a lot of techniques don't have the capability of giving buffs, so it's a toss up in general

4: I think the difference in our opinion comes down to you sayng haki -is- spiritual energy and I'm saying haki is -fueled by- spiritual energy. As I've said, the inability to build up haki or use it other than the three way just doesn't make it like any othe rkind of energy. So much so that I don't think it is. Haki can be gained of course, but in battle someone starts with a full tank and can't go above the full whereas with everyone else they can be charged. Another way I look at it is why not make a "haki ball" or something like that.

5: And just after she got her eyes back...

6: Both techniques and energy use can be refines so I really don't think this is proof for it being energy or not. And... just to say, you saying "energy based" makes it seem like you are saying Haki is derived from energy and not actually enegy. Somewhat confusing. Would you be for making the distinction by saying "technique" and "energy"? as that seems to be what we are dividing things into.

7: Yes, and haki uses spiritual energy. That is literally my thinking for this.

8: So... it's an ability? :P not to be an ass of course. But yeah, that's the thing. Haki, though sharing traits with energies seems to be something completely different in use for a lot of other things.

9: It idn't ay it reinforces the 5 senses, but is -like- the senses. so almost a 6th sense. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Thoguh... it does seem like you came to that conclusion on your own. So yay. But again, it it's a "sense" I don't see how it can be an energy.

If Haki is an energy what does it fuel? That's another problem I have with classifying it as an energy.

Haki is life energy, it has been said that everyone has it but only few know how to use it

2. Exactly. So what does Haki and other energy have? Reinforcement, of themselves or a physical object.
3. And you already agree that Haki has the likeness to energy.

I've never said Haki is a type of energy using physical manifestation. So the point is moot if you want to bring it up. To begin with, there are different kinds of energy. First is the kind of energy that can be summoned molded, shaped in various elements etc. And the other kind is one that cannot be used outwardly but all the same can enhance the ability of the users. Haki is similar. The physical and menifestation of Haki is very limited. The most it can do in this area is emit a spirit wave or imbuing in a weapon.
4. It does. The three applications of Haki only means that Haki is a form of energy devoid of physical form. As explained above and before, Haki is something that cannot menifest physically as it has everything to be with the user's spirit. Haki is something that comes from the spirit, as Reyleigh explained, its something that everyone is capable of.
6. Haki is a form of energy, a "technique" that anyone can learn based off of Reyleigh's description of it. We already know that it has limitations. Once the threshold is crossed, the user needs to recharge before Haki can be used again. This is a significant development, one that supports Haki uses an exhaustible energy base to function.
8. It's a form of energy that does not manifest physically. That doesn't make Haki any less from energy based abilities. As I explained before, Haki uses reinforcement via enhancing physical and mental attributes of the user. I've already explained the similarities in these attributes linking to the usage of Sharingan and compared the imbuing of Haki to weapons with Lightning release and pure chakra imbuing methods.
10. I think I've explained this before. Haki gives the user a mental and/or physical enhancement. Take Sage Mode for instance. Similar end game. In Sage Mode, Naruto gains incredible sensing abilities, defense as well as physical strength.

No.

@lowlaville:

2. Exactly. So what does Haki and other energy have? Reinforcement, of themselves or a physical object.

Yes, but having that property doesn't make whatdoes it energy. Umm... random example, harry potter. If a spell makes a weapon somehow enchanted, the spell is not energy. It's the magic behind it. Some fiction has that intermediary step whereas others do not. Naruto has examples of both.

3. And you already agree that Haki has the likeness to energy.

I've never said Haki is a type of energy using physical manifestation. So the point is moot if you want to bring it up. To begin with, there are different kinds of energy. First is the kind of energy that can be summoned molded, shaped in various elements etc. And the other kind is one that cannot be used outwardly but all the same can enhance the ability of the users. Haki is similar. The physical and menifestation of Haki is very limited. The most it can do in this area is emit a spirit wave or imbuing in a weapon.

Umm... alright. Splitting energy into two different types like that just seems to be making the debate all the more complicated. But I think I can agree with that. Sure. In that there are the different kinds of energies. Still contesting the haki thing, but it looks like we can drop this point?

4. It does. The three applications of Haki only means that Haki is a form of energy devoid of physical form. As explained above and before, Haki is something that cannot menifest physically as it has everything to be with the user's spirit. Haki is something that comes from the spirit, as Reyleigh explained, its something that everyone is capable of.

You have no idea how much most of what you say sounds to me almost exactly what i'm thinking save haki being the actual energy source. I don't mean to say that in a rude way, but it's just frustrating how there's something so key in the debate we just can't agree upon while everything else seems to match up. You're saying it comes from the spirit and for me that just screams spirit is to chakra as haki is to jutsu.

6. Haki is a form of energy, a "technique" that anyone can learn based off of Reyleigh's description of it. We already know that it has limitations. Once the threshold is crossed, the user needs to recharge before Haki can be used again. This is a significant development, one that supports Haki uses an exhaustible energy base to function.

Hmm... maybe this is a better way of phrasing my point. Haki can be exausted, we are both in agreement of that. Now, if we take DF users, they have to expend some kind of energy to use their fruit, right? It's not just something they can have as their natural state. Maybe... Luffy can. But when actual thought needs to be put into ones fruit, like every other user I'm pretty sure, they can be worn out. Yes? Perfect example, we'll take Law. he's mentioned his Room takes up large amount of his energy. Would you linkhis ability to use Haki and his ability to use his room at all? Say he used up his haki would he be able to use his room?

My answer would be no. I'd say there is some biological or mental or some other kind of non physical as you distinguished energy that fuels both as well as normal every day functions. Spirit energy I guess.

8. It's a form of energy that does not manifest physically. That doesn't make Haki any less from energy based abilities. As I explained before, Haki uses reinforcement via enhancing physical and mental attributes of the user. I've already explained the similarities in these attributes linking to the usage of Sharingan and compared the imbuing of Haki to weapons with Lightning release and pure chakra imbuing methods.

I think we can drop this specific point too as it's a lot of the same from our other posts.

10. I think I've explained this before. Haki gives the user a mental and/or physical enhancement. Take Sage Mode for instance. Similar end game. In Sage Mode, Naruto gains incredible sensing abilities, defense as well as physical strength.

Do you agree that both energies and techniques can alter stats? if so we can probably drop this point too. As saying it gives enhancements does not help to prove or disprove it being an energy or not. I'm trying to get this down to the simplest arguments to most easily debate this.

Has it actually been said that it is life energy? I believe I read that it is the manifestation of using like/spirit/whtever energy. Like using chakra for ninjutsu.

In a way. I don't think its energy as in it can be conjured into a ball/blast and fired like a ki blast in DB, a Cero in Bleach or a Spirit Gun in YYH, but Haki does seem like One Piece's "Thing" I don't know how to word it, its not actual energy, but I think its One Piece's equivalent to Ki, Chakra, Spirit Energy, Reitsu etc. it just does something completely different lol if that makes any sense.

@loumast: Well, since you want to simplify this, I will make it easier for you. But do not broaden the subject as you did before. I'm already being very patient with you. Don't complain...

"Umm... alright. Splitting energy into two different types like that just seems to be making the debate all the more complicated. But I think I can agree with that. Sure. In that there are the different kinds of energies. Still contesting the haki thing, but it looks like we can drop this point?"

Why do you want to drop the subject? This is the main point. As you've said, Haki does not behave like the energies you've compared it with. To put it simply, Haki has not shown manifest in any physical form whatsoever. However, Haki reinforces and strengthens the human body, the catalyst for Haki. It does this via physical, mental and spiritual means.

Haki is different from Chakra and Qi in that it has no affinity with the elements of nature or magic. It's not an energy source similar to "fuel". Haki comes from life force, from the spirit itself. It's the polar opposite of the external forces found in devil fruits, which is the primary reason why Haki cancels devil fruit abilities.

Now DF, they come with magic, elements and even mysticism. Haki is incomplete, but combined with devil fruits, Haki makes a user monstrous to the point of being very hard to defeat. Haki does not necessarily cancel each other out, in which case the person with the stronger spirit, resolve or strength is capable of coming out on top. This is of course different for guys like Reyleigh and Garp (does he have a DF ability?), whose speed, strength and their capability to fight on par with devil fruit users is purely on credit to the level of their Haki.

@lowlaville: First some things on a more personal note. Pretty sure Garp doesn't have a DF ability. Luffy shows pretty well your point in combining haki and DF abilities. And lumping DF abilities in general to needing haki to defeat is not exactly accurate. The only class of DF that would really need haki are Logia. All others, while they have an edge due to said abilities, can more than effectively be beaten by normal people with similar stats. Though as shown with Crocodile and Enel there can be substances that cancel out the abilities. It would make sense if all Logias had some sort of substance like this. Feel free not to respond to this section, just some points I felt inclined to make that don't have anything really to do with this debate.

Now, if we are not defining an energy as a "fuel" I don't see how it's an energy any more. In fiction, what do you view an energy as?

No, your post makes sense, and I agree with your argument on it, Croc's example is slightly off, as he has the ability to absorb moisture and water, thereby making deserts in the literal sense of it. Water is a general weakness of all devil fruit users. I consider the entire Enel arc a big PIS to make him lose. He shows nigh omniciency to a limited range, with a devil fruit ability that is second only to Kizaru when it comes to being truly immortal. Yet he was fodderized by a pre skip luffy. Its way too ridiculous.

- Fuel for the body
- Fuel for the mind
- Fuel for the spirit

I believe if developed right, Haki might be able to support elemental attributes in the future, but until then, Haki is fairly limited source of power relevant only to the farthest extension of your own body.

@lowlaville: Are you saying haki fuels those things?

@loumast: Body? Yes.

@lowlaville: Just making sure. And specifically mind, body and soul. I was a bit confused since in other places you said haki is not a fuel based energy. Alright though.

Now, I disagree with this assessment.

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/one-piece/597/11/

Rayleigh describes haki as a power and you have agreed that calling it a "sense" is accurate. In fact, haki seems to be concentrating something into the three aspects mentioned to perform the three different kinds of techniques.

For clarifications sake are you saying each brand of haki is a fuel for its respective stat, as it were? Or that there is a general haki that can then be refined into what we know?...Or am I completely off base and in general being a dumbass? If it is the latter I would appreciate what you do think on that subject.

YES.

Armament Haki - Defense/Strength boost
Observation Haki: Eyesight, Hearing, Perception boost
Conqueror's Haki: Releases spirit in order to suppress/intimidate weaker beings.

What's being "concentrated" into these aspects is no less than a person's spiritual energy, a technique so called Haki. it's really the "act of not doubting". Haki in other words knows no bounds. What cannot be touched, can be touched. What cannot be hurt, can be hurt. What cannot be dodged, can be dodged. What cannot be defended against, can be defended against. Haki is a spiritual ability that is exactly that. After reaching a threshold, it requires recharging.

Luffy still had the strength to run, and the stamina to use Gear 4 again, but it just was not going to happen. This proves two things that goes against you.

- Haki is not a sensory ability.
- Haki uses an expendable reserve of energy.
- You should read some chinese manhua. Ki lost due to exertion can be recovered through meditation. The same concept with Luffy. He wasn't meditating, rather it seemed he was sleeping, and recharging his Haki.

@lowlaville: First off

What's being "concentrated" into these aspects is no less than a person's spiritual energy, a technique so called Haki.

Secondly thank you for the clarification. Now:

Sasuke says his eye powers returned. He specifies of course that he needs chakra, but still the concept is the same. And if you think about context it would make sense to say "My -insert ability here- ran out" or "has returned" and also event hough he didn't have enough chakra for the more advanced sharingan/rinnegan he was still getting along pretty well. Of course those are the advanced ones, but the point still stands that even if there is not enough energy to use a technique it isn't unheard of to not be able to move and whatnot. And as I've said that is the first time haki was referred to in such a way. If haki did fuel these aspects, then wouldn't Luffy not be able to run?

As for your two points and one comment XP

-Not sensory like the byakugan or anything, but still pretty sensory like, if only in the immediate timeahead. I mean Enel was using it to monitor all of Skypia.

-Yes

-Dude, there are a lot of things I wan to watch and should watch. And read. XD

@loumast: First off, what point of yours again?

Secondly,

Uchiha eyes are normally dark. They turn red when Sharingan itself is activated. This should suffice to tell you that Sharingan requires chakra to activate. The far stronger doujutsu naturally use far more chakra to activate and use. Do you know why Kakashi had one of his eyes hidden? Because he could not deactivate the sharingan in his eye, and prolonged usage depleted both his stamina and chakra to dangerous levels.

The very basis of the Sharingan is a "special" kind of chakra,

Here's a chart that further proves the existence of this chakra node being referenced above, ONE WHICH WOULD AFFECT THE OPTIC NERVE.

In conclusion: Chakra is an integral part of the entirety of the Sharingan and Rinnegan based abilities (all Doujutsu shown in Naruto in fact, including Byakugan).

Furthermore, void of chakra results in the death of a shinobi, or anyone with chakra inside them in Narutoverse, as Chakra by birth has been mixed with a person's life force. Only exception to this rule is the Juubi Jinchurikki, who can stay alive due to gedo mazo even after the tailed beast has been stripped right out.

A person's stamina is life force in Naruto.

Backtracking this simple concept, we can deduce the inexistence of chakra leads to the death of whoever, with the one exception mentioned above, as Gedo Mazo itself can still supply the person with sufficient life force to stay alive.

Therefore, its an error in assumption on your part that Luffy would not be able to move. So far as I know, there's nothing connecting a person's ability to stay alive, move around (physical energy) with that of spiritual energy in one piece that would support your theory that exhausting Haki/Spiritual energy leads to "not being able to move".

"-Not sensory like the byakugan or anything, but still pretty sensory like, if only in the immediate timeahead. I mean Enel was using it to monitor all of Skypia."

Not the point I made. You called it a 6th sense. There's nothing tying Haki to a 6th sense, or any of the other 5 senses. It amplifies and boosts certain aspects of a person's body, mind and soul.

"If haki did fuel these aspects, then wouldn't Luffy not be able to run?"

You seem to run in circles. I never said Haki fuels these aspects. You said that energy must be of a nature similar to "fuel". I only disproved this logic by stating Haki was apart from normal Chakra and Ki uses in Naruto and Dragon Ball.

Haki amplifies/augments/boosts/strengthens aspects of this. As Luffy said, he could use any of his gears save Gear 4th, as it actively uses Haki as "Pound man". Luffy said he could move, so likely Gear second, but then, the damage Doffy would do would be unprecedented, to Dressrosa.

@lowlaville: I assume you are asking what my point was in that quote. Just pointing out how you described haki as a technique of concentrating spiritual energy into those aspects. Even if it was inadvertant or a misphrasing. I was being mostly comical in my pointing out of it.

A fair point otherwise though. I can agree that just spiritual energy being drained will not hinder a person physically. At least not enough to make a serious difference. Luffy's exhaustion could easily have come fromt he actual fighting with Doffy.

Please explain our exchange in posts 21,22,23 and 24. I specifically asked if you meant haki fuels "those things" and you responded with yes. At least specifying body. If I misunderstood I apologize, but would like some clarification.

I am right there with you in the claim that haki does not fuel these things... because it is not an energy. My questioning is me trying to understand how you come to your conclusion that haki is energy. If I may, what has you classify haki as energy if it doesn't fuel anything?

@loumast: Where you are confused seems to be that fueling body versus fueling aspects. I never said Haki fuels the human body in one piece. Rather, via 3 aspects of the human body, mind and soul, it augments defense, strength, perception and spirit. I repeat. It does not fuel the human body.

As for the augmenting spirit part, I don't even think that's the case. Why Reyleigh warned Luffy to not use it before its developed to the prime is likely because letting go the spirit through Conqueror's Haki is more taxing to the spirit and Luffy might find it unable to use Haki for prolonged periods of time.

@lowlaville: To avoid further confusion, what does Haki fuel?

Defense, Offense, Perception.

Didn't One Piece dedicate an entire chapter to this

@stardustcrusader: With Reyleigh?

@lowlaville: So if someone runs out of Haki they would not be able to attack, defend or perceive?

@loumast: If someone runs out of Haki, all they are running out of is just that, the augmentation, the Haki.

After all, Luffy was stated to be able to move.

iirc more people did that

- Sentomaru in his first fight against the Straw hats

- Boa Marigold in her fight with luffy

- Luffy in his first fight against the PX after the timeskip

- Pekoms against Caribou

I don't think Haki is energy. Haki is more like the Sharingan in Naruto, an ability. The more you use it the more energy it costs. However, Haki itself is not an energy source. Just as not everybody can use haki in One Piece, not everybody in Naruto can use sharingan either.

So far, we haven't seen haki being transferred from one person to another. We have seen this several times for Ki, Chakra, Reiatsu and spirit energy. Transfer of energy is present in most manga, Haki is just an innate ability which taxes the user. It's not an energy source

Really?

yeah

sentomaru

Boa Marigold

Luffy

Pekoms

@ratava: Looks like I may be wrong then. The ability seems to be related to coating Haki around your palms or fists to reflect attacks, and for attacking, while the skin turns black mostly as defense.

@lowlaville: My only problem now is why would they refer to the augmentation's usage as haki itself. As we've discussed, haki has similarities to energy, augmenting abilitys/weapons and all that. But how much of an augmentation is it to be able to touch something's true essence, or pretty much see the future. Yes there are limits, but still that's pretty super human.

Look at it like this. I will take the example of Sharingan. We don't call Sharingan energy because Sharingan uses an isolated part of the body, the eyes, or to be more precise the pupils. It requires energy to run with. So we take it as a machine that requires fuel to run. No problem accepting that.

When it comes to Haki, there is no special application for it. Depending on how and where you use Haki with/on, it presents different augmentative capabilities to the human body. Haki is something that can be freely manipulated as such. As for why we refer to it as Haki is, that is the name given to the energy.

Like I said before, this particular concept is common in Chinese Manhua. More precisely, it's called Inner Ki. You've heard of monks who can stand the force of a hammer drill to the head, right?

Haki right there. Chinese Martial Artist like the one featured in the video describe it as focusing their inner Ki into the area in order to harden it. And guys have withstood sharp edge of blades to their throats and bent steel.

In other words, Haki might not really be a Japanese concept that can be compared to Chakra in Naruto or Ki in Dragon Ball.

@lowlaville:We've already agreed that Haki, particularly armament haki, is similar to energy in this regard thatt can be used on a part of the body or weapon. My point was we can take techniques that do this as well, but they still aren't energy. For instance in Naruto, though it is filler, Fudo's Rock armor, the chidori or heck, Raikage's lighting armor. The lighting armor and chidori especially since that can be transfered to weapons. Or some of the Fullbringer techniques in in Bleach. The point that using the different kind of haki lets the user do completely supernatural things makes it very unlike energy.

Except for that one instance of Luffy saying he needed to recharge his haki, it has always been referred to as a kind of technique. Using haki to defend, attack, predict or intimidate. What's more, techniques are often referred to as needing to be restored, or charged. I mentioned the sharingan already, but also fullbring abilities again or visored masks in bleach.

In the monk example, I'm sure the ability to stop the drill has a name for doing it. Or at the very very least, you even said it is the use of inner ki. I doubt it's called "inner ki."

Like I said, Haki behaves differently on where and how it is used. On the palm of the hand, it can reflect attacks or deflect attacks like Kuma's paws. Covering the fists, weapons or any part of the body gives the skin toughness and strength. Haki being used on the mind gives rise to Observation Haki. Conqueror's Haki is simply a pure burst of spirit wave.

Your examples, Chidori, Lightning Armor, Rock Armor all uses chakra to transmute into/control respective elements. This is no way can be compared to Haki as being relative.

Sharingan can be used again, with chakra. As do fullbring abilities, visored abilities or any manner of skill requiring energy to perform. The likeness of a technique does not take away its potential to run on energy. Haki is no different. It's something that can be learned, ,actively controlled and awakened subconsciously during any point in one's life. This does not mean Haki is not running on a source of energy. What is especially apparent is that the source of energy is present inside everyone. Just. Like. Chakra.

It just is not a vibrant source of energy. Haki uses life force to awaken and control the spirit. I've already explained the defiant nature of this ability.

Whatever you want to call it, Ki or Qi.

The Monk first harnesses Qi on his skull before bashing his head continuously with solid steel and bent it. There really is no special name given for the technique. He is just another Shaolin Monk.

@lowlaville: First... the video is blocked in my country. Yaaaaaaaay lol. But given what you responded with, he is concentrating his energy to perform the action. The way it had been explained in One Piece until that one panel was that people would use whatever energy they have (spirit energy seemed to be a good approximation) and then performtheir actions, which are referred to as haki. FOr instance... sage chakra is gathered in Naruto then can be used for sage sensing or frog kata or senjutsu.

Sharingan can be used again, with chakra. As do fullbring abilities, visored abilities or any manner of skill requiring energy to perform. The likeness of a technique does not take away its potential to run on energy. Haki is no different. It's something that can be learned, ,actively controlled and awakened subconsciously during any point in one's life. This does not mean Haki is not running on a source of energy. What is especially apparent is that the source of energy is present inside everyone. Just. Like. Chakra.

So what is the difference between the sharingan, fullbring powers, visored powers and haki? It sounds like you are saying they are the same in concept, which would make haki not an energy.

- Your country sucks....

You are right, Haki relies on "whatever energy they have". It's certainly not stamina.

I've already very lightly hinted the similarities with Sage Mode and Haki. Let's go into detail.

Sage Mode --> Better sensing | Haki ---> Observation Haki
Sage Mode --> Enhanced Defense | Haki --> Armament Haki

- I'm not saying they are the same concept. All of them uses a similar core concept, different energy base. Sharingan uses Chakra, Fullbringers and Vizords use the basic Bleach energy.

The last part of your argument doesn't make sense. Even if the aforementioned abilities relied on the same concept, why does that make Haki not an energy?

And, what was your point with this post? Because I fail to see any rebuttal or relevant argument in your post....if you don't want to accept Haki is energy, we can just leave it at that.

@lowlaville: Two main points in that post. First that haki is often referred to as a technique. For instance "Observation haki allows you to see what your opponont will do." "Armament haki allows you to hit opponenets bodies that are otherwise intangible" Normally energy will just be a fuel for other things. Admittedly, things like sage chara is similar in that it allows one to hit a 10 tails jinchuriki with senjutsu, but I think we're in agreement on how that is an energy.

Second point was me attempting to use the likeness to the other techniques to show how haki is three techniques.

In my mind I continue your explanation of Sharingan uses chakra with the haki in one piece uses spiritual energy XD (or something else.) For the sake of the argument, if say android 19 or 20 in dragon ball z used their energy absorption and were able to absorb chakra and everything else, would they absorb haki?

As for why the likeness would make them not an energy, it is because they are not energy. No it's not 100% proving the point, but obviously there is nothing to fully prove either way since there is likeness to an energy as well as techniques. It is why I asked what the difference is betweent he listed things. THough I'd like to add sage mode techniques to the list too.

And... we could leave it at that. But hey, I enjoy debating on the battles threads and I'm enjoying this XD

Something I feel like I should add, I feel like haki would fall under the naruto term jutsu (and yes I'm well aware it literally means technique XD) but then it is split into different elements and abilities. Just liek that haki is split into the three different variations.

@loumast: I'm glad you are enjoying this, lol but you need to come up with something credible.

"First that haki is often referred to as a technique."

It is. Does not falsify the claim that Haki uses some source of energy to run on. You can compare the likeness to any number of techniques. This does not change the basis of my claim. Nor does it suffice to prove anything you are claiming.

"Second point was me attempting to use the likeness to the other techniques to show how haki is three techniques."

Haki is variation of the same technique producing three different affects depending on how and where Haki is used. This was explained in posts above. Even arguing the likeness of 3 distinct techniques, it does not change the basis of the said techniques. Haki runs on energy.

@lowlaville: You do realize in both responses you are saying haki -runs on- energy which is my point XD Unless you are saying it is an energy that runs on energy. Which is totally a valid claim given that is literally what chakra is lol. Still, nothing in that response saying how it is energy.

In multiple posts you even say haki is a technique. For instance in your last post.

Haki is variation of the same technique producing three different affects depending on how and where Haki is used.

The reason I say haki isn't an energy is because "sage mode" isn't an energy, the bleach transformations are not an energy, Kaioken or supersayain are not energies. They are all uses of energies to accomplish something. Through all of one piece Haki is referred to the same way. Where haki -is- the action. haki -is- sensing, or protecting, or attacking.

Are you saying haki is both the action and the energy?