Yeah, Thor admitted Wolverine is faster than he is in that issue.
Thats just PIS.
No not really.From waht I've seen Thor doesn't really use him physical attributes to move about quickly,if he's a light speeder its because of his hammer and his hammer only..basically. So Wolverine probably does move faster and stealthier than Thor does. Anyways that was around the time the Wolverine hype was insane.I don't think that fight should have happened...massive gap.Thor should wreck Logan any and every day.
When I see Wolverine have micro-second reaction time, then I'll say he's faster. Lol
When I see Wolverine have micro-second reaction time, then I'll say he's faster. Lol
How does that one scan and maybe two others* all from decades ago overrule decades of Thor not exhibiting similar operational speed feats and his own verbal confirmation of a street level character having superior speed? If you look at it in terms of the micro second feat and Thor's fight with Wolverine being on opposite ends of a spectrum, do the majority of Thor's operational speed feats sit closer to the micro second range or to the street level range?
*I say "maybe two others" because Wolverine can also move "almost faster than mere mortal eyes can follow" (he can actually move faster than mere mortal eyes can follow) and reacting to a psychic blast has always lacked weight for me.
When I see Wolverine have micro-second reaction time, then I'll say he's faster. Lol
How does that one scan and maybe two others* all from decades ago overrule decades of Thor not exhibiting similar operational speed feats and his own verbal confirmation of a street level character having superior speed? If you look at it in terms of the micro second feat and Thor's fight with Wolverine being on opposite ends of a spectrum, do the majority of Thor's operational speed feats sit closer to the micro second range or to the street level range?
*I say "maybe two others" because Wolverine can also move "almost faster than mere mortal eyes can follow" (he can actually move faster than mere mortal eyes can follow) and reacting to a psychic blast has always lacked weight for me.
I know thor doesn't show case it but he consistently fights really fast people and does quite well. I it isn't regularly spelled out or shown but he has some pretty decent speed feats. And all beta ray bill (thors equal) is doing these days is fighting cosmic level people pretty much. He may not be superman speed or anything but he is fast in his own right.
@czarny_samael666: You think Thor is not a credible source? If he can't say who is faster than him, who can? What feats are you using to say that something opposite is true? Does his consistent display of ability put him at superhuman speeds in combat? Statements have been made about Thor holding back his power, and I can buy that, but I haven't seen anything about speed, and if he were holding back, he simply could have gotten faster and hit Wolverine, or in the case of Quicksilver that people blow out of proportion, gotten faster and hit him too instead of resorting to area damage. I've seen and deconstructed the feats you referenced and they don't support your case as well as you think they do. Sorry. Thor's regular display of speed doesn't support him having high operational speed.
Sorry, I know this is addressed to someone else, but I find it very interesting subject and some great questions you ask.
Thor isn't relatively that credible a source, because he's a character and us as a reader, we have more potential for objectivity than he does, especially when it comes to consistency and hell, we can even go one step further being aware of his fictional nature to reason why inconsistencies might exist with his actions. Not just that, but the more powerful characters in Marvel U, from a narrative sense would be a more credible source - like if Living Tribunal were to weigh in on Thor's speed. So there are superior sources for Thor's speed, both objective, and subjective and ambiguous and clear, but not all those things will be consistent or necessarily more credible. Discretion applicable.
Power is speed. The faster he moves, the more potent his blow would be, unless his ability to de-accelerate is immediate. Accuracy is a factor as well. Its like if you have a kid sister or brother or child - often many adults can exclaim about how fast children are - this is due ti children being more reckless in play and adults taking more care - in games of tag, chasing, play fighting. If you applied the same pressure to lift a child up under their shoulders directly to say their face? Yeah... probably going to be arrested for child abuse. lol So then another interesting aspect is brought up? Thor's decisions making abilities? If he aimed lower on Wolverines body maybe he could be more reckless and thus faster instead of going for a ground area shot, but there are lots of alternatives. Some emphasize different abilities more than others - the funny thing being it was probably just writer and artist preference in trying to convey a story - similar to how the writer artist drawing Thor and all other characters and all other characters vs all other characters will think about that more than scientific level consistency and accuracy with prior stories. So I personally find accuracy in your statements in one context - just the whole absence of evidence vs evidence of absence argument arises again. As in he could have done this and that, but because he didn't doesn't mean he can't (or can) but there is no false dilemma.
The other stuff sounds more specific to other poster, so I'll leave that *smile* So though just add two cents to above bits. Some great questions.
I know thor doesn't show case it but he consistently fights really fast people and does quite well. I it isn't regularly spelled out or shown but he has some pretty decent speed feats.
Same can be said for Captain America, Wolverine, or Spider-Man.
@czarny_samael666: You think Thor is not a credible source? If he can't say who is faster than him, who can? What feats are you using to say that something opposite is true? Does his consistent display of ability put him at superhuman speeds in combat? Statements have been made about Thor holding back his power, and I can buy that, but I haven't seen anything about speed, and if he were holding back, he simply could have gotten faster and hit Wolverine, or in the case of Quicksilver that people blow out of proportion, gotten faster and hit him too instead of resorting to area damage. I've seen and deconstructed the feats you referenced and they don't support your case as well as you think they do. Sorry. Thor's regular display of speed doesn't support him having high operational speed.
Sorry, I know this is addressed to someone else, but I find it very interesting subject and some great questions you ask. Thor isn't relatively that credible a source, because he's a character and us as a reader, we have more potential for objectivity than he does, especially when it comes to consistency and hell, we can even go one step further being aware of his fictional nature to reason why inconsistencies might exist with his actions. Not just that, but the more powerful characters in Marvel U, from a narrative sense would be a more credible source - like if Living Tribunal were to weigh in on Thor's speed. So there are superior sources for Thor's speed, both objective, and subjective and ambiguous and clear, but not all those things will be consistent or necessarily more credible. Discretion applicable. Power is speed. The faster he moves, the more potent his blow would be, unless his ability to de-accelerate is immediate. Accuracy is a factor as well. Its like if you have a kid sister or brother or child - often many adults can exclaim about how fast children are - this is due ti children being more reckless in play and adults taking more care - in games of tag, chasing, play fighting. If you applied the same pressure to lift a child up under their shoulders directly to say their face? Yeah... probably going to be arrested for child abuse. lol So then another interesting aspect is brought up? Thor's decisions making abilities? If he aimed lower on Wolverines body maybe he could be more reckless and thus faster instead of going for a ground area shot, but there are lots of alternatives. Some emphasize different abilities more than others - the funny thing being it was probably just writer and artist preference in trying to convey a story - similar to how the writer artist drawing Thor and all other characters and all other characters vs all other characters will think about that more than scientific level consistency and accuracy with prior stories. So I personally find accuracy in your statements in one context - just the whole absence of evidence vs evidence of absence argument arises again. As in he could have done this and that, but because he didn't doesn't mean he can't (or can) but there is no false dilemma. The other stuff sounds more specific to other poster, so I'll leave that *smile* So though just add two cents to above bits. Some great questions.
I understand that there may be more credible sources than Thor, but I would count him as a credible with direct comparison's to himself. Now, if he were to make a comparison like "Hulk hits harder than anyone I've ever met" or "Wolverine is faster than so-and-so" I wouldn't necessarily consider him a credible source, but if he compares someone's speed to his own and finds them faster, I believe him. It's a simple observation that anyone could make. In this case, both parties remark on Thor's lack of speed (though Wolverine is making the comparison to Sabretooth because he thinks that's who he's fighting and he expects a faster opponent). Thor can recognize that Wolverine is faster than him and Wolverine can recognize that Thor is not as fast as Sabretooth. So there you have two subjective viewpoints but both with the knowledge (either of themselves or of a regularly faced opponent) to make a speed claim, the reader's objective viewpoint since we can see that Wolverine does indeed land blows unanswered, and the additional objective viewpoint the reader has in his ability to look at the speed Thor consistently displays, which is street level at best. I wouldn't go just by a character's word, that's why I've made several comments about the speed Thor consistently shows.
I understand that there may be more credible sources than Thor, but I would count him as a credible with direct comparison's to himself. Now, if he were to make a comparison like "Hulk hits harder than anyone I've ever met" or "Wolverine is faster than so-and-so" I wouldn't necessarily consider him a credible source, but if he compares someone's speed to his own and finds them faster, I believe him. It's a simple observation that anyone could make. In this case, both parties remark on Thor's lack of speed (though Wolverine is making the comparison to Sabretooth because he thinks that's who he's fighting and he expects a faster opponent). Thor can recognize that Wolverine is faster than him and Wolverine can recognize that Thor is not as fast as Sabretooth. So there you have two subjective viewpoints but both with the knowledge (either of themselves or of a regularly faced opponent) to make a speed claim, the reader's objective viewpoint since we can see that Wolverine does indeed land blows unanswered, and the additional objective viewpoint the reader has in his ability to look at the speed Thor consistently displays, which is street level at best. I wouldn't go just by a character's word, that's why I've made several comments about the speed Thor consistently shows.
Well first I think its good to acknowledge relativity. Like I also agree Thor is more credible source with direct comparison to himself here but are still so many different contexts to take into consideration. Its not about me believing him or not, its about accuracy. Thor isn't Reed Richard's. He may speak with a certain pomp, but he is fairly informal. Do you think when Thor makes a statement about speed he is trying to make an accurate objective observation. Or maybe does Thor think if he can't hit something in a casual sense it means that thing is faster than him, neglecting to think about things such as accuracy, distance, size, skill, noise - all variables which might actually play more of a factor objectively than speed? So Thor does make a simple observation, but therein lies the problem. Speed and movement are incredibly complex. You know we can make computers so smart they can beat most people at chess? Yet the most advanced computer when it comes to movement, get schooled by children. Thor might be credible, in knowing himself in relation to others, but relating what he observes? His objective accuracy?
This is also two characters remarks measured amongst thousands - and many of those other remarks both support and oppose the basic principles, true, and so again we end up with quite a lot of subjective information. Like Thor doesn't necessarily recognize Wolverine is faster, because that hasn't been established as fact - Thor merely believes Wolverine is faster than him. So in that statement you start off with a presumption - a fair one, just that it applies in more than one context. Two subjective viewpoints do not add to accuracy since shared view =/= accuracy. The readers objective viewpoint is to consider as much of what could of happened as much as what does. Then its all the information we are not privy to that one must be mindful of. Thor's motivation, his subjective intent to neutralize Wolverine. Lots and lots of room for discretion on the parts of the character and the reader.
If there is one thing that is consistent about Thor's speed, is that its inconsistent. If Thor only fought Gladiator and Sentry, and Silver Surfer then how he is depicted would be a lot tighter in consistency. Instead he fights guys like Puma, Wolverine, Thing often as well. Objective accuracy and consistency as far as his speed is thrown out due to the novelty of him fighting a popular character - not that this cancels out your argument. Just your argument can be applied to many alternative arguments. Its not mutually exclusive. It creates what is known as inconsistent truths. It goes back to the part about how you view superspeed - moving fast is different to stopping after moving fast. Stuff like that. Which is why I am technically not disagreeing with you per say. Just suggesting many alternatives are as credible. Like Thor fought Puma once, and he explain in thought dialogue that he couldn't throw his hammer too hard (speed is factor here) because he didn't want to injure Puma - as a consequence Puma easily invaded his attack. Its not foreign to therefore think Thor might think Puma is faster than him? At least in one context... *smile*
@SC: Except that in such a situation Thor clearly knows he can easily exert himself (or his hammer) a little more and get the result he wants. Wolverine isn't Puma. Wolverine can resist more damage than he should be able to thanks to his skeleton and then heal from whatever damage he actually sustains, and everyone knows it. Despite that though, Thor doesn't simply move faster even though he wouldn't actually hurt Wolverine. He says that Wolverine keeps hitting him while he keeps missing. If it were simply a matter of applying himself more he could have done that. Instead he says that he can't hit Wolverine (with his "finest attacks"), not that he can't hit him at his current level of power, and goes for the area attack. The characters Thor fights range all across power levels, but the speed he displays in his fights is consistent. Even when he's fighting his tougher opponents there are rarely statements to suggest he's moving at superhuman speeds. Just because his enemies can move at great speeds doesn't mean they always are every time there's a fight. And the same might apply for Thor if his speed (like his energy manipulating abilities) weren't so easily separated from the rest of him (in his hammer), if he had more than a couple of decades old operational speed feats, or if there weren't examples of him clearly stating that street level heroes are faster than him. Of course, if you feel like it, you can make it as complex as you want and make everything but what's written in handbooks irrelevant because what comes across from the comics can't be fully known.
@SC: Except that in such a situation Thor clearly knows he can easily exert himself (or his hammer) a little more and get the result he wants. Wolverine isn't Puma. Wolverine can resist more damage than he should be able to thanks to his skeleton and then heal from whatever damage he actually sustains, and everyone knows it. Despite that though, Thor doesn't simply move faster even though he wouldn't actually hurt Wolverine. He says that Wolverine keeps hitting him while he keeps missing. If it were simply a matter of applying himself more he could have done that. Instead he says that he can't hit Wolverine (with his "finest attacks"), not that he can't hit him at his current level of power, and goes for the area attack. The characters Thor fights range all across power levels, but the speed he displays in his fights is consistent. Even when he's fighting his tougher opponents there are rarely statements to suggest he's moving at superhuman speeds. Just because his enemies can move at great speeds doesn't mean they always are every time there's a fight. And the same might apply for Thor if his speed (like his energy manipulating abilities) weren't so easily separated from the rest of him (in his hammer), if he had more than a couple of decades old operational speed feats, or if there weren't examples of him clearly stating that street level heroes are faster than him. Of course, if you feel like it, you can make it as complex as you want and make everything but what's written in handbooks irrelevant because what comes across from the comics can't be fully known.
So lets keep a small tally? Since to me, I don't think its clear at all that Thor knows he can easily exert himself a little more to get the result he wants, and he got the result he wanted anyway? So why and how is it that Thor should do something you think he should when it simply may be that he did what he think he should. Its not as if he the character though his statement would be analyzed by two people trying to determine his speed lol Your telling me what you know about Wolverine as opposed to what Thor might. Or maybe Thor underestimates or overestimates his striking power at full potency or his fine control, relative to speed? There is going to be a range of degree there. Do you know much about the mechanics of movement noise? How athletes work at reducing that noise to allow for greater accuracy and power?
To me it reads that you use the word simply as a synonym for efficiently? Is that fair? Then your argument again isn't mutually exclusive to your stance - its extremely easy to flip it around as follows.
"The characters Thor fights range all across power levels, but the speed he displays in his fights is inconsistent. Even when he's fighting his faster opponents there are rarely statements to suggest he's moving at superhuman speeds. Just because his enemies can move at great speeds and slow speeds doesn't mean they always are or aren't every time there's a fight" Doesn't negate what you say, but still - and this statement can be further, flipped, swapped, altered to still maintain accuracy and so inconsistent truths - even more so given its fiction.
So to put it another way? You have a strong stance on his speed? Thats fair? I don't - because I don't see any exclusive reasoning to argue this one way given what we know of the character. Almost the same arguments can be and are utilized for arguing a few positions.
Oh lol, doesn't think I am advocating Thor as a speedster - I don't aim for complexity I am for accuracy. Accuracy is found with acknowledging and distinguishing differences and critical reasoning. Say I personally would never say or use the word clearly, since the Earth was clearly flat - how clear things are depends on your perspective. See to keep up with the tally Handbooks are relevant to me. I know some writers who reference them and thus its a small aspect of what we see in the comics. I agree that what comes across in the comics can't fully be known, hence why I am not making any hard claims about Thor's speed, instead opting to acknowledge there is a lot of ambiguity with the character and his speed and so this could lead to multiple accurate claims about the character and his speed, rather, than just the one that you advocate? So now your stance about his speed and what can be known about comics seems inconsistent? Or did I read you wrong?
No, it was shown here that he is fast. Including microsecond speed reaction and catching objects at FTL speed.
@Buckshot :
My prime point in it is: If Wolverine is really faster than Thor, than he FTL. Similar thing we have about Wonder Woman and Batman words, but Batman is credible source of information.
@SC: I would assume Thor knows Wolverine can take a hit because not only did he hit the man with a lightning bolt, but he's worked with him for years and had various opportunities to take notice of the two things that make him stand out among street level characters. Wolverine is know for fighting the Hulk and Thor has engaged the Hulk numerous times. I think if nothing else, that would clue him in as to the kind of damage Wolverine can handle. And why wouldn't Thor know he can exert himself a little more when, as you've provided, there are clear examples of him being conscious of his holding back? If he knows he's holding back some speed as you suggest, then it should be a simple matter to hold back less. However Thor says Wolverine is too fast and so he is "required" to change tactics to compensate. How does he compensate? By going for area attacks instead of moving faster. He doesn't compensate by adding more speed since Wolverine is already avoiding his finest melee attacks and there presumably isn't more to give, he compensates by hitting a target that's not too fast for him. This is not a case of him just doing one of many things he could do, choosing an area attack over increasing his speed. I know there are other options like generating a gust of wind to hold Wolverine back for example, but he states that Wolverine is too fast without any qualifiers indicating that he's not fighting at his best (and in facts suggests the opposite about how hard he is fighting).
I understand what you're attempting to say about Thor in other fights, but no, just because a clear speed isn't indicated doesn't mean the speed is inconsistent or that Thor could just as easily be fighting at super speed as regular speed. There are ways to demonstrate increased speed (after-images, blurs of movement, statements, thoughts, etc) and unless those are present, why make the assumption that a fight is going any faster than a normal pace? What I'm saying is that increased speed needs to be shown, not assumed, especially in the cases of characters that have other displays of their ability that directly contradict the notion of their increased speed. Thor has, as we've seen, at least one clear depiction of his character that suggests that in combat his speed is at street level and numerous battles with opponents where increased speed is not clearly indicated or even suggested. Why assume all those instances are at a vastly superhuman speed? Yes, there are a few examples of him moving incredibly quickly, but majority of his speed displays don't bear that out while they are in line with a ruling of street level speed.
I had a stance on Thor's speed based on what he routinely shows in other situations and I wrote this blog to see if there was support for it in things I hadn't seen yet or if I was totally off base, and it turns out that there was support. My stance doesn't seem inconsistent to me.
@czarny_samael666 said:
@Buckshot : My prime point in it is: If Wolverine is really faster than Thor, than he FTL.
That would be true if Thor consistently displayed FTL operational speed and he doesn't.
I know thor doesn't show case it but he consistently fights really fast people and does quite well. I it isn't regularly spelled out or shown but he has some pretty decent speed feats.
Same can be said for Captain America, Wolverine, or Spider-Man.
They consistently fight people who are only faster than bullets. They have fought fast opponents but they rarely do it. Thor does it quite regularly.
@jashro44: Were they using superspeed? I mean, if superspeed is always turned on, the speedster would be like Zoom and constantly being a blur and having trouble speaking, or they'd be like Quicksilver - acting like a jerk because everything feels like the DMV to him.
I know thor doesn't show case it but he consistently fights really fast people and does quite well. I it isn't regularly spelled out or shown but he has some pretty decent speed feats.
Same can be said for Captain America, Wolverine, or Spider-Man.
They consistently fight people who are only faster than bullets. They have fought fast opponents but they rarely do it. Thor does it quite regularly.
Fighting people with super speed is not the same as fighting people with super speed who are actually using their speed in the battle. Characters don't use every power in every battle and there are indications of when they're using things like their speed.
This isn't really why I wrote my blog. Still waiting for more images or references for Thor and Wolverine and anything for him and Cap (I heard he had a good showing against Cap).
@jashro44: Just because Surfer is flying doesn't mean he's going FTL and blocking lightning isn't super impressive seeing as people have dodged or put up forcefields in response to Storm's attacks.
Anyway, again I'll say, the purpose of this blog was to see how Thor fared against Wolverine and Cap.
@Buckshot: These are the same people who'll dismiss Lobo's proof of superspeed but use the same arguments for Thor being a bajillion times faster than light when it comes to agility/reflexes.
@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: Well Darksied actually is fast. In order for thor to hit the silver surfer he would need super speed. I will repost but the main point is thor is blocking lightning from zeus. If you still can't read it you will have to left click and if you still can't read it you will have to right click and hit view image.
@Buckshot said:
@jashro44 said:
@Buckshot said:
@jashro44 said:
I know thor doesn't show case it but he consistently fights really fast people and does quite well. I it isn't regularly spelled out or shown but he has some pretty decent speed feats.
Same can be said for Captain America, Wolverine, or Spider-Man.
They consistently fight people who are only faster than bullets. They have fought fast opponents but they rarely do it. Thor does it quite regularly.
Fighting people with super speed is not the same as fighting people with super speed who are actually using their speed in the battle. Characters don't use every power in every battle and there are indications of when they're using things like their speed.
This isn't really why I wrote my blog. Still waiting for more images or references for Thor and Wolverine and anything for him and Cap (I heard he had a good showing against Cap).
Fair enough. But I believe that if marvel pins him against fast people a lot they must think he is fast.
I heard several times he beat cap when he was depowered...I have never seen scans of that though.
@jashro44: Thanks for the resize, but Hulk's tagged Silver Surfer yet his speed gets downplayed all the time.
As far as blocking Zeus' lightning, it's impressive but what happened to the "Mjolnir blocks everything" defense? People have claimed Lobo's weapons can't harm Thor or Bill due to their hammers being able to block even planetary blasts. Plus Zeus telegraphed his move.
Didn't Thor have some major problems keeping up with Spider-Mans speed during an instance? I don't think the speed difference between them both was PIS, but Spider-Man actually hurting him / starting to wear him down: yeah, that was a little bit too much. Still, Thor brawled more then once in his fights against the Absorbing Man and Spider-Man was also a lot faster then Absorbing Man and took him down! There really are screens where Thor shows that he 'is fast', but in the end he does not show much of that speed, so I would say he is SLIGHTLY faster then a peak human and that trained / mutant peak humans like Wolverine and Captain America are above him in terms of the combat speed.
Didn't Thor have some major problems keeping up with Spider-Mans speed during an instance? I don't think the speed difference between them both was PIS, but Spider-Man actually hurting him / starting to wear him down: yeah, that was a little bit too much. Still, Thor brawled more then once in his fights against the Absorbing Man and Spider-Man was also a lot faster then Absorbing Man and took him down! There really are screens where Thor shows that he 'is fast', but in the end he does not show much of that speed, so I would say he is SLIGHTLY faster then a peak human and that trained / mutant peak humans like Wolverine and Captain America are above him in terms of the combat speed.
Good assessment. I want to see the Spider-Man thing if you can find it.
Fair enough. But I believe that if marvel pins him against fast people a lot they must think he is fast.
I heard several times he beat cap when he was depowered...I have never seen scans of that though.
Wolverine made his name on fighting Hulk. Doesn't mean their strength level is anywhere near close.
Well yes but wolverine is also extremely durable though. He has taken blows from many people who are stronger than him do to his healing factor and adamantium skeleton. This was also during the time when hulk feats weren't as high as they are now.
And I noticed you want to see the spider-man blitzing thor...I will show it to you. I always dismissed it as bad writing to be honest.
I think I agree that without his hammer (Mjonir?) Wolverine could possibly be as fast/faster that Thor. And those scans from WWII don't change anything -.-
But can we get back to the main point of this thread? Nothing Captain America has even been posted, I don't even like Cap, but I wanted to see.
Didn't Thor have some major problems keeping up with Spider-Mans speed during an instance? I don't think the speed difference between them both was PIS, but Spider-Man actually hurting him / starting to wear him down: yeah, that was a little bit too much. Still, Thor brawled more then once in his fights against the Absorbing Man and Spider-Man was also a lot faster then Absorbing Man and took him down! There really are screens where Thor shows that he 'is fast', but in the end he does not show much of that speed, so I would say he is SLIGHTLY faster then a peak human and that trained / mutant peak humans like Wolverine and Captain America are above him in terms of the combat speed.
Good assessment. I want to see the Spider-Man thing if you can find it.
Yeah, sure! In the first scan you see Thor talking about Spider-Mans chances against Creel, but in the second scan Spider-Man is doing very well!
But of course, Spider-Man is neither Wolverine, Thor or Captain America. Spider-Man is awesome! He is much faster then the rest of them for sure, but in terms of speed I don't think that there are high differences between Wolverine, Thor and Captain America. I would say they're all pretty even and that Wolverine could be the fastest one of them three. Then Thor and then Captain America, since he is only a peak human and no matter what he displayed, he still lacks superhuman abilities. In terms of fighting experience / skill / whatsoever, I would say Captain America is on place one, since fighting is everything he does: Outskilling his enemies, while Wolverine relies A LOT on his claws. I mean, why would you try to use effective martial arts if you have Adamantium claws and can cut through everything! But still, I would give the knowledge point to Wolverine, since he is basically fighting for over 100 or 110 years! He knows about pressure points, not only from human beings, but he knows how to find the weak spot of something! In the end there is Thor. While he has fighting experience, it's still not the same thing. It's like an knight from middle age, who knows how to brawl, but he would still lose against a martial artist from nowdays who trained martial arts and knows how to fight effectivly!
The pimp hand point goes to Thor, should be obvious why.
@jashro44: Beyond the fact that Wolverine still mixes it up with modern day Hulk, you realize the same logic applies to Thor and that's what I'm trying to say right? Wolverine can fight Hulk even though Hulk is much stronger because he has things like durability and healing on defense and claws on offense to make up for it. Thor can fight people who are faster than him (and that's assuming people are actually using their speed even though they usually aren't) because he has other things to make up for where he falls behind. Simply being against characters who are fast doesn't make you fast any more than being up against strong characters a lot makes you strong. Of course you consider it bad writing. I don't see why it would be though. The only thing that might make it bad writing is Thor saying he's being worn down, but if you look at it, it actually isn't unbelievable. If he were getting worn down solely by Spider-Man's hits I might question it, but that's not all that's happening. He keeps trying to hit Spider-Man and keeps failing. That could be very tiresome. He also cites Spider-Man's banter as something that's getting to him. He doesn't even call Spider-Man's attacks damaging, he says they're frustrating. It seems more like his repeated failures, his inability to actually do anything, and Spider-Man's words are wearing him down more than any physical assault Spider-Man is delivering. Even then though, it makes sense to me than repeated multi ton blows would eventually get to even Thor if he can't do anything but take them. Don't think they'd defeat him by any means, but they'd get to him. I don't see why it would be bad writing. Does show Thor's relative speed though (however, Spider-Man is well above street in that department). @SexualLobster: Thank you. @Chibio: Thanks for the images, I'll have to look at them later. I gotta go.
@Buckshot: The reason I dismiss the spider-man scan as bad writing is because this was in the same decade when spidy was beating firelord and fighting the silver surfer and 1 shotted quasar....But you do have a point.
Thor doesn't have fast in fight speed.He can fly/move fast,but when it comes to reflexes and throwing punches,he's just a big slow brusier.Powerful..very true,can he blitz? Yes..but only with the help of his hammer.
He doesn't have many speed feats that stand on his own to help him in this case. Wolverine is just a more swift and agile fighter and ultimately quicker on the draw.Thor knows himself better than anyone else.Also scans from 30 years ago can be plausible,but they can also be excused becuse Thor power levels change from up to down,toback to average to extremely powerful etc.
Current thor hasn't did anything really impressive as far as speed goes.He tagged QS,but he didn't directly touch im.Just area damage which presumably made him fall.
The reason I dismiss the spider-man scan as bad writing is because this was in the same decade when spidy was beating firelord and fighting the silver surfer and 1 shotted quasar....But you do have a point.
Never underestimate Spider-Man. That guy was tanking Juggernauts punches, faced Hulk more then once and speedblitzes teams of superhumans. Spider-Man is actually a beast, even though he often gets downgraded by the writers. If you call many of his moments PIS, then he is probably the PIStrongest character in the comic books, since he has more then one good showing. Like Buckshot said it: While 10-11 tons are maybe not that much, but imagine if someone with that strenght hits you more then once per second. Keep in mind how damn fast Spider-Man actually is. It would end in multiple 10 ton stikes per second and that actually hurts a lot! But yeah, Spider-Man beating down Firelord is very debatable, even though I would probably argue for him in that instance.
The reason I dismiss the spider-man scan as bad writing is because this was in the same decade when spidy was beating firelord and fighting the silver surfer and 1 shotted quasar....But you do have a point.
Never underestimate Spider-Man. That guy was tanking Juggernauts punches, faced Hulk more then once and speedblitzes teams of superhumans. Spider-Man is actually a beast, even though he often gets downgraded by the writers. If you call many of his moments PIS, then he is probably the PIStrongest character in the comic books, since he has more then one good showing. Like Buckshot said it: While 10-11 tons are maybe not that much, but imagine if someone with that strenght hits you more then once per second. Keep in mind how damn fast Spider-Man actually is. It would end in multiple 10 ton stikes per second and that actually hurts a lot! But yeah, Spider-Man beating down Firelord is very debatable, even though I would probably argue for him in that instance.
Well yes he was tanking punches but taking on harelds and other cosmic beings is a little much. Yes spider-man is definitely fast though.
And most of those scans are classic Spider-Man back when he was Marvel's golden ticket. Back when comic books were written with a twelve year old audience in mind.
Crappier, more PIS riddled writing is hard to find.
@Aqua11500: Am I the only one that finds it crazy that some people are "dismissing" certain eras because of PIS, but have no problem embracing the 60s when Thor's hammer was literally a deus ex machina and would whip out random abilities that were only used once to save the day?
@Aqua11500: Am I the only one that finds it crazy that some people are "dismissing" certain eras because of PIS, but have no problem embracing the 60s when Thor's hammer was literally a deus ex machina and would whip out random abilities that were only used once to save the day?
Sure, his hammer would conjure something new up daily... against all save Spider-Man. And only when his all powerful hammer that travels at FTL speeds, shoots god blasts and crumbles mountains wasn't caught and trapped in, sigh, Spider-Man's all powerful webbing.
@Aqua11500: Am I the only one that finds it crazy that some people are "dismissing" certain eras because of PIS, but have no problem embracing the 60s when Thor's hammer was literally a deus ex machina and would whip out random abilities that were only used once to save the day?lk
Sure, his hammer would conjure something new up daily... against all save Spider-Man. And only when his all powerful hammer that travels at FTL speeds, shoots god blasts and crumbles mountains wasn't caught and trapped in, sigh, Spider-Man's all powerful webbing.
LOL It's like when Spiderman beat up that dude with the flaming hair XD I swear that's how the editors talk sometimes.
And most of those scans are classic Spider-Man back when he was Marvel's golden ticket. Back when comic books were written with a twelve year old audience in mind. Crappier, more PIS riddled writing is hard to find.
Wow mate. Yeah, but the difference is: Spider-Man was back then fast and durable and he is also nowdays. Back then Thor was lifting planets and Superman was sneezing out solar systems. They could go intangible, read minds, teleport around, absorb everything you could think off and so on, and so on, while Spider-Man fought back then against Absorbing Man and also did it in the recent comics. Of course the writing was over the top back then, but that goes only for characters without any limits (Thor, Superman, Hulk). Characters like Spider-Man stayed the way they are. Nowdays you won't see Thor pulling off feats from the 60ties, but you will see Spider-Man tanking shots from Hulk. And I think Spider-Man was just redirecting Mjolnir in that scan. I don't see why that would be impossible, since we can say for sure that Thor didn't mean to actually harm Spider-Man but just to dazz him or something. And yeah, Captain America is an enhanced human, but he is only a peak human though. He won't benchpress 2000 pounts and he won't jump over buildings, even though there maybe were few instances where he actually did that. That's what I call weird writing and overhyping of a character. It's still 'only' Captain America and not Colonel America who took the 1000 times stronger serum version.
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