1) How is Toriko supposed to counter Kenshiro's Musou Tensei ?
2) How is Toriko supposed to counter Kenshiro's Touki (Battle Aura) ?
3) How is Toriko supposed to counter Kenshiro abilities to put an instant-kill on every techniques with or without touching Toriko ?
Gets blitzd show him reacting to someone of torikos speed. Did he abuse Musuo tensei throughout FOTNS?? and why not. Did he insta kill everone in FOTNS and why not.
A) I told you that's automatic.
B) He didn't abuse it because he fights his opponents in the same ground. Against Falco, Kenshiro paralyze one of his leg in order to equalize the fact that Falco needs a leg prothesis. Here there is no reason that he don't use the Muso Tensei considering the hype towards Toriko and the battle forum rules that allows him to fight at his best.
B) All of Ken's techniques are meant to kill or cripple his opponents. He is the one whom choose which techniques applies to the fight as he masters all of them.
I'm still waiting those points being answered for the 100th time :
1) How is Toriko supposed to counter Kenshiro's Musou Tensei ?
2) How is Toriko supposed to counter Kenshiro's Touki (Battle Aura) ?
3) How is Toriko supposed to counter Kenshiro abilities to put an instant-kill on every techniques with or without touching Toriko ?
1) NLF hasnt been shown on someone of torikos speed. Could it react to the flash? Even if it could, he has been tagged before.
2) How can he copy gourmet cells, does it matter if he copys torikos techniques, since you haven't proven he could replicated them at the same level.
3) Irrelevant, i guess he can instakill beerus.
He wont just be fighting toriko, any critical damage, blue oni will take over. Speedblitz, intimidation, kenshiro has been tagged, i guess hunter zolomon cant tag him.
I knew that you will go in circle on an irrelevant point.
That's your usual debating tactic.
Commentary on my debating tactic, and beauty of terms is a poor cover to hide behind. Post a showing where kenshiro resists intimidation powerful enough to affect hundreds of thousands of beings.
Kenshiro is not afraid to die, therefore Toriko has no mean to threaten him. Animals runs away because they are feeling their lives threatened.
Other than a power called intimidation. "Not afraid to die" is not a counter to an ability which creates fear in the opponents mind. Whether he's usually scared or not is irrelevant to whether he can resist something that can affect 100k's of beings at once. There, he needs actual showings to say he won't go down like a sack of potatos for good.
It's irrelevant because you are going out of the topic relying on a single and irrelevant argument.
These were counters to your own points, actually. You're failing to present a showing for kenshiro, so brought up the other points, irrelevant by your own admission.
I countered that in my previous posts.
More circle please.
Actual scans and counters please.
How is Toriko supposed to scare someone who isn't afraid to die and continue to fight even unconscious ?
Simple. Use intimidation powerful enough to scare of hundreds of thousands of beings.
He don't because he can't be scared as I pointed it many times. Intimidating someone result in this person feeling threatened.
...You're pointing out without any basis. Post scans of one time he shruggs of mental manipulation of this level. All you're doing is repeating your own opinion, without any showings to back it up - just to be clear, resisting one featless guy is not enough - unconscious or not.
It was still countered.
...without ever being brought up? rofl.
Check your definitions about Ultimate Routine and intimidation.
You're the one confusing the two, not me. See, confused here, too.
I will do. Use the dictionnary to check your definition of intimidation.
Intimidation is the name of a power. Dictionary is not the source material, manga is.
Check my explanations about the Ultimate Routine as you didn't understood what is it.
1. "Didn't understand". Not "didn't understood". Tip: use dictionary.
2. Again, I have not even mentioned ultimate routine, and you're saying I didn't understand it? lol.
I asked you to counter them AT LEAST 6 times. I'm still waiting.
The first line of counter is intimidation - kenshiro loses before he even uses any of those. That's all it takes to put down kenshiro, it seems.
So you are admiting that you have nothing to counter the points that I asked you several times ???
You admited having nothing to counter those 3 points.
Again: You're confused. Instead of insulting your intelligence, I'll ask you to use the dictionary you linked to before. You're now confused between : "No need to counter" and "No counter". If you still cannot comprehend how the two terms differ, ask - I can help you understand.
Kenshiro stomps Toriko effortlessly.
You're confused here, too. But we'll get to that soon.
Kenshiro doesn't have a counter for ultimate routine. It's nigh reality warping.
Explanations about Ultimate Routine :
It's not reality warping at all :
1) Aimaru stresses his own body to have an ulcer and explain to Toriko how the Ultimate Routine works.
2) The fundamental of the Ultimate Routine is to concentrate to have a mental picture of the impression you want to give. For exemple : Someone finding a way to be angry can release the impression of being angry to people around him. To make the animals of the forest ran away Aimaru just pictured what the impression of fear is and released his fear around him.
3) Performing the Ultimate Routine needs the user to "concentrate" without being perturbed in order to create an "impression" of yourself in a way similar to self-suggestion. That means that basically you have to carry the image that you want to impress on the others..
1) NLF hasnt been shown on someone of torikos speed. Could it react to the flash? Even if it could, he has been tagged before.
2) How can he copy gourmet cells, does it matter if he copys torikos techniques, since you haven't proven he could replicated them at the same level.
3) Irrelevant, i guess he can instakill beerus.
He wont just be fighting toriko, any critical damage, blue oni will take over. Speedblitz, intimidation, kenshiro has been tagged, i guess hunter zolomon cant tag him.
1) The Musou Tensei makes is literraly one with the nothingness. He can't be touch and can relocate his body at will.
2) I already acknowledged that Kenshiro can't replicate the techniques that needs the gourmet cells BUT seeing the technique once will allow him to memorize it and see his pattern.
3) At worse Beerus can destroy the Earth if he can't affect Kenshiro because of the Muso Tensei.
Kenshiro has been tagged but his mastery the Musou Tensei puts him in a whole other level.
He will not be tagged if he don't want to be tagged.
I will not even waste my time answering to your passive-aggressive post.
So far, you proved that you didn't understand what the Ultimate Routine is, nor how the intimidation works, and that seems to affect your feelings since I pointed that out...
Now I would like that you stay on the topic as I adressed to all your points and that you ran away from mine everytime :
Questions (again) :
1) How is Toriko supposed to counter Kenshiro's Musou Tensei ?
2) How is Toriko supposed to counter Kenshiro's Touki (Battle Aura) ?
3) How is Toriko supposed to counter Kenshiro abilities to put an instant-kill on every techniques with or without touching Toriko ?
I will not even waste my time answering to your passive-aggressive post.
.........Sure. That's sounds like a good excuse.
So far, you proved that you didn't understand what the Ultimate Routine nor how the intimidation works and that seems to affect your feelings since I pointed that out...
Do you grasp that I - still - have not even mentioned ultimate routine from my side, even once?
Your confusing it with intimidation and pretending you were countering has nothing to do with me, or my feelings. That's all you, lol.
Now I would like that you stay on the topic as I adressed to all your points and that you ran away from mine everytime :
Questions (again) :
1) How is Toriko supposed to counter Kenshiro's Musou Tensei ?
2) How is Toriko supposed to counter Kenshiro's Touki (Battle Aura) ?
3) How is Toriko supposed to counter Kenshiro abilities to put an instant-kill on every techniques with or without touching Toriko ?
Take him down via intimidation. Simple, and enough to counter anything kenshiro brings to the table.
Can he instakill beerus otherwise its a nlf and only shown to work on people of a much lower level.
What if you sticked into the topic instead of speaking about unrelated characters ?
Copying torikos techniques are pointless if he doesn't have the energy to produce anything cable of harming him. Doesnt have gourmet cells anyway.
If you know which technique someone use it's more easy to counter / kill him.
Why didn't he instakill Roah.
Raoh* is a Master in Hokuto Shinken too.
I guess Kenshiro> Odin cant be tagged? /s.
If you want to point out a no limit fallacy, here is one.
Odin has other powers than simply hitting people isn't it ?
If the fight is only in close-combat I don't think that Odin will do squat if he can't use his powers (Odin and Zeus have been tagged by less powerful characters than Kenshiro even that was useless)
Kenshiro can assimilate Toriko techniques and replicate them just by seeing them once thanks to his Sueishin technique.
He stomps.
All Toriko's abilties can be assimilated by Kenshiro :
Doesn't change the fact that Toriko is physically his superior......... and it doesn't change the fact that his techniques aren't something you can simply replicate especially considering he wouldn't be able to copy the level of precision and power Toriko can take his attacks.
If your answer only consist in repeating something I already debunked and not answering my questions there is no debate.
You can just stop here and agree to disagree.
The answer consists of something you failed to counter, though - so the if condition doesn't hold.
"isn't afraid to die lol" is not a counter to a power that affected hundreds of thousands of beings. You are failing to give a showing where kenshiro manages something nearing that level - scrapping the entire.. "debunking".. That means you should be posting actual scan of a situation where kenshiro's "lol not afraid to die" defense helps him against fear creation at this level (powerful enough to affect 200000+ beings). Not words or opinion. Actual scans showing the situation.
@realitywarper: You haven't debunked any of his points. Can kenshiro beat Thor, n52 superman. If not why can beat toriko. If not Toriko destroys the country gg.
@realitywarper: You haven't debunked any of his points. Can kenshiro beat Thor, n52 superman. If not why can beat toriko. If not Toriko destroys the country gg.
You only post questions unrelated to the topic and avoid to answer to the simple 3 questions I asked.
Stay On Topic
Stay on topic, now from time to time a thread can be taken off topic, now this can at times have it’s place, But often will lead to some type of argument or flaming. If you are talking in a topic you must focus on the characters at hand and anything else relevant to the battle, if you wish to talk about something else use the PM facility or use one of the many community chat areas often found in the RPG section or in Gen Discussion.
Toriko stomps hard, he is much faster, stronger and more durable than Kenshiro. Seems like the only reason this thread still isn't locked is because of people using Muso Tensei as a NLF. That makes me wonder if anyone even read Hokuto No Ken at all.
Gallery
Muso Tensei does not make Kenshiro invulnerable/intangible... It is just containing one's fighting Ki and hiding within the after images. Any AoE attack Toriko tries will completely annihilate Kenshiro.
Kenshiro perfected the technique after this, even Kaioh used his Ki to create some anti-G space, and can't be tagged at all.
Nice alternate account by the way, there are banned.
Arguing against the manga, are we ? And accusations of alternate accounts to boot ? I have been vising this web site for a while and only created this account because I could no longer stand this Kenshiro wank.
Weren't you the one whining about staying on topic anyway ?
Kenshiro perfected the technique after this, even Kaioh used his Ki to create some anti-G space, and can't be tagged at all.
Nice alternate account by the way, there are banned.
Arguing against the manga, are we ? And accusations of alternate accounts to boot ? I have been vising this web site for a while and only created this account because I could no longer stand this Kenshiro wank.
Sure I'm trusting you.
Weren't you the one whining about staying on topic anyway ?
Nobody is whining.
It seems that the Musou Tensei annoys you to the point that you feel the need to post scans totally out-of-context.
Do you realize that the scans that you posted are totally obsolete as Kenshiro countered easily that technique after ???
In the second fight against Kaioh, Ken don't even bother to counter Kaoih technique or to use the Musou Tensei as his own technique evolved far beyond Kaioh's...
Ken don't even bother countering because Kaioh's techniques aren't even close to Ken's...
If you don't like what you are reading...
It's not my problem.
Like at all.
I'm using here the manga as the source material...
I invite you to write to the Shueisha to complain about how broken Kenshiro's abilities are, because personally I'm done reading people using some gross language just because they can't handle that one fictional character has abilties more hax than others...
Arguing against the manga, are we ? And accusations of alternate accounts to boot ? I have been vising this web site for a while and only created this account because I could no longer stand this Kenshiro wank.
Sure I'm trusting you.
Weren't you the one whining about staying on topic anyway ?
Nobody is whining.
It seems that the Musou Tensei annoys you to the point that you feel the need to post scans totally out-of-context.
Do you realize that the scans that you posted are totally obsolete as Kenshiro countered easily that technique after ???
In the second fight against Kaioh, Ken don't even bother to counter Kaoih technique or to use the Musou Tensei as his own technique evolved far beyond Kaioh's...
Ken don't even bother countering because Kaioh's techniques aren't even close to Ken's...
If you don't like what you are reading...
It's not my problem.
Like at all.
I'm using here the manga as the source material...
I invite you to write to the Shueisha to complain about how broken Kenshiro's abilities are, because personally I'm done reading people using some gross language just because they can't handle that one fictional character has abilties more hax than others...
Whatever makes you think about whether or not you trust me ? LOL
You do realize that Kenshiro countering the technique is completely irreverent because it changes nothing to the fact that Muso Tensei was exposed to just be hiding your battle Ki and using after images, right ?
You do realize that Kenshiro not Using Muso Tensei in the second fight doesn't help your case in the slightest since your sole argument is Muso Tensei which was exposed to be nothing like you are claiming, right ?
I invite you to properly read a manga next time instead of using lies to hide the fact that your ultimate hax is not as hax as you want it to be and that your character loses badly without his fan-made abilities. So feel free to write to Shueisha and convince him to change Kenshiro's abilities to fit your fictional interpretations.
I have no idea who/what Toriko is or can do but what can he do if Kenshiro goes intangible?
kenshiro wont have time to do anything. Toriko is so much out of Kenshiros league in speed/strenght/durability its not funny. Intimidation from early Toriko is enough to stomp Kenshiro (but as you say you dont know Toriko but princearagorn already explained it). the only "feat" for Kenshiro we saw so far is his battlespirit messing with someones ki after he got koed but in this fight there is no ki he can mess with so that feat is completely useless.
You do realize that Kenshiro countering the technique is completely irreverent because it changes nothing to the fact that Muso Tensei was exposed to just be hiding your battle Ki and using after images, right ?
You do realize that's not what the Musou Tensei does "hiding the battle ki and using after images" ????
That's a furious lowballing or a total lack of knowledge about this ability.
You do realize that Kenshiro not Using Muso Tensei in the second fight doesn't help your case in the slightest since your sole argument is Muso Tensei which was exposed to be nothing like you are claiming, right ?
You do realize that he don't use it as the Hokuto Ryuken isn't a rival for him ?
You do realize that the storyline of Hokuto No Ken consist in letting the bad guys repent of their own sins while Kenshiro fight them on the same ground even if he has to negate every advantages he had on them like paralyzing one of his legs against Falco ???
I invite you to properly read a manga next time instead of using lies to hide the fact that your ultimate hax is not as hax as you want it to be and that your character loses badly without his fan-made abilities. So feel free to write to Shueisha and convince him to change Kenshiro's abilities to fit your fictional interpretations.
You are not the one that will school me about Hokuto No Ken.
You seems to be a fiercely-commited fan of Toriko that can't handle to see his favorite character having no answers to the abilities of another fictional character.
I don't judge you as that's not my problem at all.
1) Aimaru stresses his own body to have an ulcer and explain to Toriko how the Ultimate Routine works.
2) The fundamental of the Ultimate Routine is to concentrate to have a mental picture of the impression you want to give. For exemple : Someone finding a way to be angry can release the impression of being angry to people around him. To make the animals of the forest ran away Aimaru just pictured what the impression of fear is and released his fear around him.
3) Performing the Ultimate Routine needs the user to "concentrate" without being perturbed in order to create an "impression" of yourself in a way similar to self-suggestion. That means that basically you have to carry the image that you want to impress on the others...
That's very simple.
1) That's not telepathic like princearagorn1 claimed.
2) To summarize the point of this technique is to carry an emotion that you are feeling to the people around you.
@realitywarper: How does kenshiro stop toriko from casting his impression onto him?
How won't it ken be effected from it?
If you've already explained this within the thread my bad, but I'm ignorant about kenshiros power set and abilities so I'm just trying to understand this a bit better. Just a brief synopsis is fine.
@realitywarper: How does kenshiro stop toriko from casting his impression onto him?
How won't it ken be effected from it?
If you've already explained this within the thread my bad, but I'm ignorant about kenshiros power set and abilities so I'm just trying to understand this a bit better. Just a brief synopsis is fine.
Will you make me repeat my previous explanations ?
I have never read fist of the North Star, I may have to now it sounds cool. Does Kenshiro ability make him 100% undetectable? Is there proof that he is undetectable and has no odor? If he cannot erase his scent he can't surprise Toriko without superior speed or space hax. Toriko can smell things years after they happened. If any hint of Kenshiros scent is present Toriko can lock on. From reading the posts it looks like Kenshiro would 100% need a surprise attack and instant kill to beat Toriko; where as Toriko has a wide array of techniques to one shot Kenshiro if they hit.
Go easy on me I haven't read FOTNS so sorry if I am mistaken.
@realitywarper: You haven't debunked any of his points. Can kenshiro beat Thor, n52 superman. If not why can beat toriko. If not Toriko destroys the country gg.
You only post questions unrelated to the topic and avoid to answer to the simple 3 questions I asked.
That's because the three abilities are already countered by intimidation.
Toriko does not need intimidation to win, but that's already more than sufficient to take down kenshiro - who has no showings at this level - "lol isn't afraid of death" being sufficient enough to survive something as strong as intimidation is an unbacked opinion.
I have no idea who/what Toriko is or can do but what can he do if Kenshiro goes intangible?
kenshiro wont have time to do anything. Toriko is so much out of Kenshiros league in speed/strenght/durability its not funny. Intimidation from early Toriko is enough to stomp Kenshiro (but as you say you dont know Toriko but princearagorn already explained it). the only "feat" for Kenshiro we saw so far is his battlespirit messing with someones ki after he got koed but in this fight there is no ki he can mess with so that feat is completely useless.
Kenshiro has no showings that stop first arc toriko from putting him down - Intimidation solos.
I have no idea who/what Toriko is or can do but what can he do if Kenshiro goes intangible?
kenshiro wont have time to do anything. Toriko is so much out of Kenshiros league in speed/strenght/durability its not funny. Intimidation from early Toriko is enough to stomp Kenshiro (but as you say you dont know Toriko but princearagorn already explained it). the only "feat" for Kenshiro we saw so far is his battlespirit messing with someones ki after he got koed but in this fight there is no ki he can mess with so that feat is completely useless.
Kenshiro has no showings that stop first arc toriko from putting him down - Intimidation solos.
yep, that battle spirit isnt a counter to anything, because its only feat is messing with someones evil ki while Kenshiro was Koed.
@realitywarper: You haven't debunked any of his points. Can kenshiro beat Thor, n52 superman. If not why can beat toriko. If not Toriko destroys the country gg.
You only post questions unrelated to the topic and avoid to answer to the simple 3 questions I asked.
That's because the three abilities are already countered by intimidation.
Toriko does not need intimidation to win, but that's already more than sufficient to take down kenshiro - who has no showings at this level - "lol isn't afraid of death" being sufficient enough to survive something as strong as intimidation is an unbacked opinion.
I have no idea who/what Toriko is or can do but what can he do if Kenshiro goes intangible?
kenshiro wont have time to do anything. Toriko is so much out of Kenshiros league in speed/strenght/durability its not funny. Intimidation from early Toriko is enough to stomp Kenshiro (but as you say you dont know Toriko but princearagorn already explained it). the only "feat" for Kenshiro we saw so far is his battlespirit messing with someones ki after he got koed but in this fight there is no ki he can mess with so that feat is completely useless.
Kenshiro has no showings that stop first arc toriko from putting him down - Intimidation solos.
"Circle "answering tactic""
Read more about what "intimidating" someone means.
You can't intimidate someone that don't even flinch when he is facing death.
Toriko is clearly faster, so we all agree that the first thing that's going to happen in this fight is this:
Toriko's INTIMIDATION
now you just have to respond to THAT... not other things, how do you think Kenshiro will react to this?
1) tremble in fear
2) acknowledge Toriko's insane power and give up
3) resist Intimidation
If you say it's 3, you need to prove how.... yeah, Kenshiro may not be afraid to die, but that doesn't mean he can resist Toriko's intimidation.
e.g. i'm not afraid to die, but i'm not gonna jump in front of a TRAIN... because that will kill me!! this is exactly what Toriko's intimidation does, you realize just how powerful he is and you don't wanna fight him anymore because you don't WANT to die.
Since Toriko is much more powerful than Ken, you need to prove how he will not be affected by this... so let's be reasonable, please explain how he can resist it. (if he really can)
Toriko is clearly faster, so we all agree that the first thing that's going to happen in this fight is this:
Toriko's INTIMIDATION
now you just have to respond to THAT... not other things, how do you think Kenshiro will react to this?
1) tremble in fear
2) acknowledge Toriko's insane power and give up
3) resist Intimidation
If you say it's 3, you need to prove how.... yeah, Kenshiro may not be afraid to die, but that doesn't mean he can resist Toriko's intimidation...
(e.g. i'm not afraid to die, but i'm not gonna jump in front of a TRAIN... because that will kill me!! this is exactly what Toriko's intimidation does, you realize just how powerful he is and you don't wanna fight him anymore because you don't WANT to die.)
Since Toriko is much more powerful than Ken, you need to prove how he will not be affected by this... so let's be reasonable, please explain how he can resist. (if he really can)
Ken considered that all opponents that he beat were stronger than him and even then he fought them to the death.
In complex vertebrates, including humans, the amygdala perform primary roles in the formation and storage of memories associated with emotional events. Research indicates that during fear conditioning, sensory stimuli reach the basolateral complexes of the amygdalae, particularly the lateral nuclei, where they form associations with memories of the stimuli. The association between stimuli and the aversive events they predict may be mediated by long-term potentiation, a lingering potential for affected synapses to react more readily.
Memories of emotional experiences imprinted in reactions of synapses in the lateral nuclei elicit fear behavior through connections with the central nucleus of the amygdalae. The central nuclei are involved in the genesis of many fear responses, including freezing (immobility), tachycardia (rapid heartbeat), increased respiration, and stress-hormone release. Damage to the amygdalae impairs both the acquisition and expression of Pavlovian fear conditioning, a form of classical conditioning of emotional responses.
The amygdalae are also involved in appetitive (positive) conditioning. It seems that distinct neurons respond to positive and negative stimuli, but there is no clustering of these distinct neurons into clear anatomical nuclei.
Different nuclei within the amygdala have different functions in appetitive conditioning.
As Kenshiro controls his bodily functions he will adapt his answer to Toriko's attempt to intimidate him... He will simply shrugg off the intent like he did against the Tiger or agains other Martial Artists.
@realitywarper: you fail to understand that Toriko's intimidation is not just a threat... it's not fake, nor a bluff... it's real. (it's a technique, not just 1 guy trying to scare you! otherwise the animals wouldn't run away) So, when Kenshiro will FEEL Toriko's intimidation... he will FEEL his immense power and energy and be overwhelmed by it(because Toriko is much more powerful than Ken). Why do you think Ken would still want to fight him after that? Does he WANT to die or what? he has never faced someone this strong... his intimidation works on creatures able to destroy entire countries, yet Ken will not give a damn? it doesn't seem likely
Being able to control his bodily functions is fine, but can he shut down the rational part of his brain too? because that will certainly be affected by Toriko's intimidation
you fail to understand that Toriko's intimidation is not a threat... it's not fake, nor a bluff... it's real.
As real as any Tiger roaring against any other living being.
That's exactly the same logic of initimidation.
(it's a technique, not just 1 guy trying to scare you! otherwise the animals wouldn't run away)
So does the Tiger... The other animals tend not to approach the source of the noise when he is angry
So, when Kenshiro will FEEL Toriko's intimidation... he will FEEL his immense power and energy and be overwhelmed by it(because Toriko is much more powerful than Ken).
And Ken will face him because he basically mastered the Ultimate Assassination Art and that makes him the most powerful man in his world.
Why do you think Ken would still want to fight him after that?
The OP stated that they have a fight.
Does he WANT to die or what?
He is in control of his emotions and don't fear death at all.
he has never faced someone this strong...
Depends if you consider that Raoh destroyed entire armies with a wave of his hand....
Depends if you consider that he faced Raoh whom mastered the Musou Tensei too and won.
his intimidation works on creatures able to destroy entire countries, yet Ken will not give a damn? it doesn't seem likely
Because it's the way Ken works.
Being able to control his bodily functions is fine, but can he shut down the rational part of his brain too?
He controls his emotions.
The man is kinda stoic you know.
because that will certainly be affected by Toriko's intimidation
I see no reason here to affect one man whom is considered the God Of Death in his world.
Kenshiro is confident in his abilities and never give up.
As I showed previously he continue to fight even he is unconscious so why would he run away ?
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