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#1 Edited by Doomnaut (1993 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman

Wonder Woman

Gladiator

Beta Ray Bill

Scenario

Win by death or knockout

No prep

No BFR

Bloodlust on

Pre-New 52 Superman and Wonder Woman

616 Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill

Gladiator's confidence will stay at 100%

Setting

Who wins?

#2 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4215 posts) - - Show Bio

Well before anyone else says it, I will; Team 1 via speedblitz.

#3 Posted by SheenLantern (6466 posts) - - Show Bio

#6 Posted by Doomnaut (1993 posts) - - Show Bio
#7 Posted by solon (421 posts) - - Show Bio

team 1

#8 Posted by Mxyzptlk_CV (1151 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 wins

#9 Posted by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio

Well before anyone else says it, I will; Team 1 via speedblitz.


BRB has beaten a bullrushing surfer (thats a nano-second feat at least!) and Gladiator at 100% confidence also moves at the speed of light so not really arguable here.

Team 2 takes the victory

#10 Posted by Pokeysteve (8250 posts) - - Show Bio

Almost positive this has been done before. Meh. Going with team 1. Wonder Woman is enough to hold a blood lusted Supe when she's not trying to hurt him. She can take either of them when she actually wants to hurt them.

#11 Edited by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

i don't know how powerful i can gauge Beta Ray Bill but he stood to Silver Surfer that we know can beat DC team here.

Gladiator at 100% is a beast, he can destroy a planet with a couple punches, i don't recall Sup or Diana doing something similar.

both Marvel characters have nanosecond reaction time, so no speedblitz here from both sides

i'm not sure but i'm leaning toward Marvel team mainly because of the magic advantage that BRB can use on Superman's weakness

#12 Posted by WarBlade539 (4564 posts) - - Show Bio

Gladiator and Bill have nanosecond feats.

Bill has reacted to a bullrushing Surfer whilst Gladiator has gone toe-to-toe with Hyperion in a fight that lasted nanoseconds.

Both have planet-busting hitting power.

Add the myriad of powers Bill has to the equation and the Annihilators win.

#13 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12021 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman and Wonder Woman are both faster than Gladiator's and Beta Ray Bill's inconsistent nano-second reaction feats. Both have shown to be faster than thought, striking power falls short to nigh impenetrable defense, speed, skill, comparable strength and one hitter quitter equipment. Both Superman and Wonder Woman would beat BRB or Gladiator on their own, League founders win.

#14 Posted by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio

Gladiator and Bill have nanosecond feats.

Bill has reacted to a bullrushing Surfer whilst Gladiator has gone toe-to-toe with Hyperion in a fight that lasted nanoseconds.

Both have planet-busting hitting power.

Add the myriad of powers Bill has to the equation and the Annihilators win.

i like this comment

#15 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9593 posts) - - Show Bio

@all_mighty_beyonder: @darkazrael999:

BRB has no nano-second feats, and Gladiator has ever only used that speed or anything close to it ONCE. In fact, has nano-second, microsecond or even millisecond been mentioned in reference to him since then? What other quantifiable speed feats, that arent travel or guess work, have these two had??

Superman and Wonder Woman are both faster than Gladiator's and Beta Ray Bill's inconsistent nano-second reaction feats. Both have shown to be faster than thought, striking power falls short to nigh impenetrable defense, speed, skill, comparable strength and one hitter quitter equipment. Both Superman and Wonder Woman would beat BRB or Gladiator on their own, League founders win.

This

#16 Posted by WarBlade539 (4564 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: Beta Ray Bill reacted to a bull-rushing Surfer. Reacted. To. A. Charging. Surfer. You don't have to mention it separately, that is a nanosecond feat.

#17 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9593 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkazrael999:

Yeah, and how fast exactly was Surfer going? And, if you have it, scan please. And also, consistency matters.

#18 Posted by TheAmazingImmortalMan (2946 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is the fastest person in this thread but he usually does not speed blitz much. BRB is definitely the biggest threat to team DC, Gladiator at 100% is incredible but if his fight with WW drags on he might lose confidence and in turn will not be as effective. BRB vs Superman should go pretty simislar to Thor vs Superman. It is a tough fight for Supes because of BRB's magic but eventually Supes can overcome that, he goes toe to toe with Black Adam and Cpt. Marvel who are made up of magic as well. I say Team DC 6/10.

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#19 Posted by BigCimmerian (8069 posts) - - Show Bio

Almost positive this has been done before. Meh. Going with team 1. Wonder Woman is enough to hold a blood lusted Supe when she's not trying to hurt him. She can take either of them when she actually wants to hurt them.

Do you know that bloodlusted Superman one shotted Diana in Vengeance.

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#20 Posted by laflux (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman and Wonder Woman are both faster than Gladiator's and Beta Ray Bill's inconsistent nano-second reaction feats. Both have shown to be faster than thought, striking power falls short to nigh impenetrable defense, speed, skill, comparable strength and one hitter quitter equipment. Both Superman and Wonder Woman would beat BRB or Gladiator on their own, League founders win.

Gladiator does has solid nanosecond reaction feats, I think he suffers from Plot alot the time, but since when does Beta Ray Bill have such displays of reaction speed? Anyway Team DC wins for many of the reasons stated above.

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#21 Posted by dondave (36467 posts) - - Show Bio

Team DC

#22 Edited by WarBlade539 (4564 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9593 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkazrael999:

All Surfer did was fly directly at him....how is that a speed feat?

#24 Posted by Xwraith (17252 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Posted by WarBlade539 (4564 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Edited by laflux (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkazrael999:

We have no idea how fast Surfer was going. To add to the point, Surfer was seeking to reason with Beta Ray Bill, so its unlikely he was going all out.

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#27 Posted by BigCimmerian (8069 posts) - - Show Bio

Bloodlusted Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill can one shot Wonder Woman if they manage to hit her straight in the face with full strength.

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#28 Posted by WarBlade539 (4564 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@darkazrael999:

We have no idea how fast Surfer was going. To add to the poit, Surfer was seeking to reason with Beta Ray Bill, so its unlikely he was going all out.

Haha! I guess I could see that comment coming. I was just wondering who would post it first.

#29 Posted by WarBlade539 (4564 posts) - - Show Bio

Bloodlusted Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill can one shot Wonder Woman if they manage to hit her straight in the face with full strength.

I like this comment.

#30 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9593 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@darkazrael999:

We have no idea how fast Surfer was going. To add to the poit, Surfer was seeking to reason with Beta Ray Bill, so its unlikely he was going all out.

Haha! I guess I could see that comment coming. I was just wondering who would post it first.

That was one of the questions I asked you above lol

#31 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12021 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian said:

Bloodlusted Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill can one shot Wonder Woman if they manage to hit her straight in the face with full strength.

I like this comment.

of course you do, and that's not your bias talking at all ...............

#32 Posted by BigCimmerian (8069 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian said:

Bloodlusted Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill can one shot Wonder Woman if they manage to hit her straight in the face with full strength.

I like this comment.

But really it's true. It is generally accepted that Superman/Gladiator/Beta Ray Bill have near equal strength, but BRB has much higher striking force. Diana was one shotted by Superman in Vengeance when he thought she's Doomsday. He punched her when they were near the sun all the way to Earth and she was KO'd, heat of our atmosphere brought her back. If he punched her on Earth like that there wouldn't be heat from reentry into atmosphere to bring her back.

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#33 Posted by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@all_mighty_beyonder: @darkazrael999:

BRB has no nano-second feats, and Gladiator has ever only used that speed or anything close to it ONCE. In fact, has nano-second, microsecond or even millisecond been mentioned in reference to him since then? What other quantifiable speed feats, that arent travel or guess work, have these two had??

@ancient_0f_days said:

Superman and Wonder Woman are both faster than Gladiator's and Beta Ray Bill's inconsistent nano-second reaction feats. Both have shown to be faster than thought, striking power falls short to nigh impenetrable defense, speed, skill, comparable strength and one hitter quitter equipment. Both Superman and Wonder Woman would beat BRB or Gladiator on their own, League founders win.

This

Gladiator suffers frm jobbing because of the confidence stuff (not in this thread since OP specify Gladiator keeps 100% confidence) but he had on panel quantified reaction time of nanosecond when he fougth Hyperion.

for BRB, for me it's only speed scaling proof, not on panel direct evidence, SS fougth Gladiator hand to hand to a standstill, that proves SS has nanosecond reaction time too, in another scene, BRB kept up with SS's speed in their fight, that shows BRB has about nanosecond reaction time too.

now what's about Wonder Woman? does she have direct on panel quantified reaction speed? i know about Sup but what about Wonder Woman, if you're going to say she has better reaction speed than Superman or equal because of this or that fight or because of this or that statement, it makes it no different from speed scaling that i did on BRB.

that's about speed reflex, now about strike power : Gladiator had destroyed an entire planet with a couple puches with no initial travel velocity. and BRB is known to be planet buster too (can't remember his planet bust feats though), so what puts Sups or Diana on Marvel team level in strike/punch/kick power?

#34 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9593 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000 said:

@all_mighty_beyonder: @darkazrael999:

BRB has no nano-second feats, and Gladiator has ever only used that speed or anything close to it ONCE. In fact, has nano-second, microsecond or even millisecond been mentioned in reference to him since then? What other quantifiable speed feats, that arent travel or guess work, have these two had??

@ancient_0f_days said:

Superman and Wonder Woman are both faster than Gladiator's and Beta Ray Bill's inconsistent nano-second reaction feats. Both have shown to be faster than thought, striking power falls short to nigh impenetrable defense, speed, skill, comparable strength and one hitter quitter equipment. Both Superman and Wonder Woman would beat BRB or Gladiator on their own, League founders win.

This

Gladiator suffers frm jobbing because of the confidence stuff (not in this thread since OP specify Gladiator keeps 100% confidence) but he had on panel quantified reaction time of nanosecond when he fougth Hyperion.

for BRB, for me it's only speed scaling proof, not on panel direct evidence, SS fougth Gladiator hand to hand to a standstill, that proves SS has nanosecond reaction time too, in another scene, BRB kept up with SS's speed in their fight, that shows BRB has about nanosecond reaction time too.

now what's about Wonder Woman? does she have direct on panel quantified reaction speed? i know about Sup but what about Wonder Woman, if you're going to say she has better reaction speed than Superman or equal because of this or that fight or because of this or that statement, it makes it no different from speed scaling that i did on BRB.

that's about speed reflex, now about strike power : Gladiator had destroyed an entire planet with a couple puches with no initial travel velocity. and BRB is known to be planet buster too (can't remember his planet bust feats though), so what puts Sups or Diana on Marvel team level in strike/punch/kick power?

Ignoring the fact that Gladiator has no consistent speed feats anywhere close to that level, you're basing your assumptions off the belief that comic bricks use their speed in every single fight they're in. Was there any indication of Gladiator using nano-second speed in his fight with Silver Surfer? If not, then you can't simply assume that level of speed for surfer* based off of Gladiator. Think of how ridiculous it would be if I applied that to....Solomon Grundy? He and Superman have fought multiple times in the past but i'm not ever gonna call Grundy fast. The same goes for BRB. You can't apply ABC logic here.

Yes, she does but i'm not familiar with her better feats. The best proof is Superman's admittance that she is faster than him (reaction wise). It doesn't seem to be by a lot seeing as how Superman still manages to get the best of her, but still, she's on par with him. And yeah, there is a difference. What you're doing is assuming that every character is fighting with their full speed every time they fight. Going by you're logic, through six degrees of separation, every single person in MU should have nano-second reactions. Now, if Gladiator or Surfer on panel said that BRB was their equal in speed, and assuming that he at least gains more feats to back it up, it would be a different story.

I admit here that Superman's best on panel striking feat was destroying and cracking a large portion of the moon with a deflected punch. Truth is, DC characters don't go around destroying planets. Superman has stated multiple times that he could, and, he has flown through and destroyed some planets, but never with punching. And, as we both know, Wonder Woman is on Superman's level strength wise as well. So, the Marvel team is ~stronger~ but, the DC team is certainly in their range

#35 Edited by Pokeysteve (8250 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian said:

@pokeysteve said:

Almost positive this has been done before. Meh. Going with team 1. Wonder Woman is enough to hold a blood lusted Supe when she's not trying to hurt him. She can take either of them when she actually wants to hurt them.

Do you know that bloodlusted Superman one shotted Diana in Vengeance.

Vs the 3 other times where she held him off and even had the opportunity to kill him?

Edit: Wait, are you talking about Superman/Batman Vengeance?

#36 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12021 posts) - - Show Bio

Edit: Wait, are you talking about Superman/Batman Vengeance?

If he is, he's referring to one of Jeph Loebs works as evidence ....... You see where I'm going

#37 Edited by Pokeysteve (8250 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve said:

Edit: Wait, are you talking about Superman/Batman Vengeance?

If he is, he's referring to one of Jeph Loebs works as evidence ....... You see where I'm going

Not that lol she wasn't in that story hahahaha

#38 Edited by dondave (36467 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve said:

Edit: Wait, are you talking about Superman/Batman Vengeance?

If he is, he's referring to one of Jeph Loebs works as evidence ....... You see where I'm going

I think he's talking about their fight in Sacrifice where Clark one shotted her.

#39 Posted by BigCimmerian (8069 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days said:

@pokeysteve said:

Edit: Wait, are you talking about Superman/Batman Vengeance?

If he is, he's referring to one of Jeph Loebs works as evidence ....... You see where I'm going

Not that lol she wasn't in that story hahahaha

I MEANT SACRIFICE DAMMIT NOT VENGEANCE HAHAHAHAHHAHA FAIL

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#40 Posted by Pokeysteve (8250 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

@pokeysteve said:

Edit: Wait, are you talking about Superman/Batman Vengeance?

If he is, he's referring to one of Jeph Loebs works as evidence ....... You see where I'm going

Not that lol she wasn't in that story hahahaha

I MEANT SACRIFICE DAMMIT NOT VENGEANCE HAHAHAHAHHAHA FAIL

Hahaha I was like WTF!? Big C is better than that lol.

I don't call that a one-shot since they slugged it out all the way up to the sun. She was up and fine on the next page. To me, a one-shot means one fighter KOed or incapped another fight in one strike (a punch, kick, headbutt, whatever). That didn't happen.

#41 Posted by BigCimmerian (8069 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian said:

@pokeysteve said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

@pokeysteve said:

Edit: Wait, are you talking about Superman/Batman Vengeance?

If he is, he's referring to one of Jeph Loebs works as evidence ....... You see where I'm going

Not that lol she wasn't in that story hahahaha

I MEANT SACRIFICE DAMMIT NOT VENGEANCE HAHAHAHAHHAHA FAIL

Hahaha I was like WTF!? Big C is better than that lol.

I don't call that a one-shot since they slugged it out all the way up to the sun. She was up and fine on the next page. To me, a one-shot means one fighter KOed or incapped another fight in one strike (a punch, kick, headbutt, whatever). That didn't happen.

You probably didn't read my other post then.

But really it's true. It is generally accepted that Superman/Gladiator/Beta Ray Bill have near equal strength, but BRB has much higher striking force. Diana was one shotted by Superman in Vengeance when he thought she's Doomsday. He punched her when they were near the sun all the way to Earth and she was KO'd, heat of our atmosphere brought her back. If he punched her on Earth like that there wouldn't be heat from reentry into atmosphere to bring her back.

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#42 Edited by Evil Incarnate (3822 posts) - - Show Bio

I've actually done the math in another thread about how fast Superman and Wonder Woman would have been traveling in the Sacrifice fight. I'll try to find i.

#43 Edited by dondave (36467 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian said:

@pokeysteve said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

@pokeysteve said:

Edit: Wait, are you talking about Superman/Batman Vengeance?

If he is, he's referring to one of Jeph Loebs works as evidence ....... You see where I'm going

Not that lol she wasn't in that story hahahaha

I MEANT SACRIFICE DAMMIT NOT VENGEANCE HAHAHAHAHHAHA FAIL

Hahaha I was like WTF!? Big C is better than that lol.

I don't call that a one-shot since they slugged it out all the way up to the sun. She was up and fine on the next page. To me, a one-shot means one fighter KOed or incapped another fight in one strike (a punch, kick, headbutt, whatever). That didn't happen.

He did one shot her, when he punched from space to earth, she blacked out and only woke up because she felt the heat of re-entry into earth's atmosphere

#44 Posted by BigCimmerian (8069 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@pokeysteve said:

@bigcimmerian said:

@pokeysteve said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

@pokeysteve said:

Edit: Wait, are you talking about Superman/Batman Vengeance?

If he is, he's referring to one of Jeph Loebs works as evidence ....... You see where I'm going

Not that lol she wasn't in that story hahahaha

I MEANT SACRIFICE DAMMIT NOT VENGEANCE HAHAHAHAHHAHA FAIL

Hahaha I was like WTF!? Big C is better than that lol.

I don't call that a one-shot since they slugged it out all the way up to the sun. She was up and fine on the next page. To me, a one-shot means one fighter KOed or incapped another fight in one strike (a punch, kick, headbutt, whatever). That didn't happen.

He did one shot her, when he punched from space to earth, she blacked out and only woke up because she felt the heat of re-entry into earth's atmosphere

And if he punched her like that on Earth there would be no re-entry to bring her back so we got a knock out. Yup this is what I was talking about.

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#45 Edited by Evil Incarnate (3822 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@pokeysteve said:

@bigcimmerian said:

@pokeysteve said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

@pokeysteve said:

Edit: Wait, are you talking about Superman/Batman Vengeance?

If he is, he's referring to one of Jeph Loebs works as evidence ....... You see where I'm going

Not that lol she wasn't in that story hahahaha

I MEANT SACRIFICE DAMMIT NOT VENGEANCE HAHAHAHAHHAHA FAIL

Hahaha I was like WTF!? Big C is better than that lol.

I don't call that a one-shot since they slugged it out all the way up to the sun. She was up and fine on the next page. To me, a one-shot means one fighter KOed or incapped another fight in one strike (a punch, kick, headbutt, whatever). That didn't happen.

He did one shot her, when he punched from space to earth, she blacked out and only woke up because she felt the heat of re-entry into earth's atmosphere

So then question becomes whether or not BRB or Gladiator would be able to withstand being knocked out by a punch that would send them from the sun back to Earth or replicate the same punch. You guys are acting like she got one shotted by Rogue.

#46 Posted by Pokeysteve (8250 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian said:

But really it's true. It is generally accepted that Superman/Gladiator/Beta Ray Bill have near equal strength, but BRB has much higher striking force. Diana was one shotted by Superman in Vengeance when he thought she's Doomsday. He punched her when they were near the sun all the way to Earth and she was KO'd, heat of our atmosphere brought her back. If he punched her on Earth like that there wouldn't be heat from reentry into atmosphere to bring her back.

I did not. If I did I would have known it was Sacrifice. That's what I get for not reading the other comments haha.

BRB's major striking feats usually come along with travel speed. Superman was also right next to the sun. Then you add in the other factors he was strangling her, his heat vision cutting through her face, he was taking her to the sun and the biggest factor in that she wasn't fighting back. Even assuming BRB has the strength to do that, he'll never land that lucky punch. Superman couldn't replicate it once she started defending herself.

#47 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3822 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkazrael999 said:

@bigcimmerian said:

Bloodlusted Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill can one shot Wonder Woman if they manage to hit her straight in the face with full strength.

I like this comment.

But really it's true. It is generally accepted that Superman/Gladiator/Beta Ray Bill have near equal strength, but BRB has much higher striking force. Diana was one shotted by Superman in Vengeance when he thought she's Doomsday. He punched her when they were near the sun all the way to Earth and she was KO'd, heat of our atmosphere brought her back. If he punched her on Earth like that there wouldn't be heat from reentry into atmosphere to bring her back.

It's been stated that Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman have near equal strength to Superman.

#48 Edited by Evil Incarnate (3822 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@pokeysteve said:

@bigcimmerian said:

@pokeysteve said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

@pokeysteve said:

Edit: Wait, are you talking about Superman/Batman Vengeance?

If he is, he's referring to one of Jeph Loebs works as evidence ....... You see where I'm going

Not that lol she wasn't in that story hahahaha

I MEANT SACRIFICE DAMMIT NOT VENGEANCE HAHAHAHAHHAHA FAIL

Hahaha I was like WTF!? Big C is better than that lol.

I don't call that a one-shot since they slugged it out all the way up to the sun. She was up and fine on the next page. To me, a one-shot means one fighter KOed or incapped another fight in one strike (a punch, kick, headbutt, whatever). That didn't happen.

He did one shot her, when he punched from space to earth, she blacked out and only woke up because she felt the heat of re-entry into earth's atmosphere

And if he punched her like that on Earth there would be no re-entry to bring her back so we got a knock out. Yup this is what I was talking about.

Superman was near the sun, which would obviously have amped him.

#49 Edited by BigCimmerian (8069 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian said:

@bigcimmerian said:

But really it's true. It is generally accepted that Superman/Gladiator/Beta Ray Bill have near equal strength, but BRB has much higher striking force. Diana was one shotted by Superman in Vengeance when he thought she's Doomsday. He punched her when they were near the sun all the way to Earth and she was KO'd, heat of our atmosphere brought her back. If he punched her on Earth like that there wouldn't be heat from reentry into atmosphere to bring her back.

I did not. If I did I would have known it was Sacrifice. That's what I get for not reading the other comments haha.

BRB's major striking feats usually come along with travel speed. Superman was also right next to the sun. Then you add in the other factors he was strangling her, his heat vision cutting through her face, he was taking her to the sun and the biggest factor in that she wasn't fighting back. Even assuming BRB has the strength to do that, he'll never land that lucky punch. Superman couldn't replicate it once she started defending herself.

This reminds me of that debate whether or not Hercules could withstand WW Hulk's punches if he started defending himself. People said that you don't gain durability and healing factor if you stop holding back. This is the same situation, even if she fought back from beginning she still wasn't durable enough to withstand wild Superman punch. I agree with other things you mentioned, sun probably increased Clark's strength, but they were near the sun for maybe 15 seconds only. And yes BRB will have massive problem with delivering that kind of punch cause of her reflexes and combat speed.

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#50 Posted by BigCimmerian (8069 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil_incarnate: They were near the sun for several seconds only, he probably became stronger, but not much.

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