Pretty sure Sub-Zero would win, once he tags Bats, he's dead
Subzero vs Batman
Since you asked ^
@nick_hero22
said:Clearly it sounds like you were struggling to debate with Mayhem and felt the need to ask me for help here with explaining MK plot to Mayhem, but honestly he didn't say anything wrong, nothing was retconned, it's merely time travel to the past in which Raiden alters certain things which changes some things, but the overall story does not change... Why are you insulting me? Worst debater? right...that's why you're asking me for help on numerous occasions with MK topics right? lol So if I'm a horrible debater then you're a utterly pathetic debater I guess? Now you're just pissed and feel the need to insult me to try to compensate....stop. I've posted tons of logical vids, canon elements unlike yourself where you just repeat yourself over and over saying Batman is more powerful and would beat Sub-Zero, no.... and you post a scan of Batman taking on Superman WITH prep prior of him getting green K, guess what? With prep, anyone can beat Superman once they know his weakness.....but head on, Batman dies just like head on against Sub he'd die... Umm, no Grand Master Sub tried outrunning the horde but when that didn't work, he killed all of them...he also at that time didn't know what his full potential was as it stated his armor was speaking to him, making him more powerful....and Batman has run/dodged enemies, it's the whole point of being stealthy, to avoid and sneak around, dodge fights with stealth...Batman has done it as well, not just Sub being a ninja. Liu Kang dying doesn't retcon the entire story, just like Sub got turned into a machine or The Elder Gods killing Kahn instead of Raiden just defeating him...If you watch the end, you see MK4 events happen anyway....with Shinnok soon to be free of Netherealm and Quan-Chi being his enforcer...that wasn't retconned, neither was Scorp killing Bi-Han, him turning into Noob etc...I can go on. I'm not a bad debater, you're the one who people think is a joke half the time...you went from totally posting "All MK characters win" to the exact opposite, you're not a true fan since you have to keep asking me for help to explain things, clearly a sign you can't do it or are failing to do so yourself... It's already established by the people posting logical points for Sub, that Sub would win, plus Batman struggles with Freeze, yet Sub is FAR more powerful then Mr. Freeze...so do the math and get a clue. Sub wins, that is all.@MKF30: Now can you please to Mayhem Theory why the original storyline is no longer canon and relevant, because he is starting to piss me off.
Wrong again I never asked your assistance in the debate I need you to help explaining to them why MK 9 was a retcon, if you actually read the thread I tried numerous times explaining to him. When have I ever asked you to help me in any MK related topic? Please post proof of this I want to see it.
I never struggle debating against Mayhem Theory I actually posted proof of all my claims. The videos you post proved nothing, Batman regaularly takes on threats that could possibly solo the MK Universe. I never posted a scan of Batman beating Superman so please re-read the thread over. The rest of the scans I posted showed why Batman is superior to Sub-Zero. If Sub-Zero is as powerful as you claim why did he run, it makes no logical sense that you claim that Sub-Zero is superior to Batman when he ran for his life against less than a dozen tarkatans which Batman would have no problem taking out since he has defeated better foes in groups before. Liu Kang death along with other twist in the story retconned the original storyline because none of the events that happen in MK 9 had happen in the original story, A retcon is a change to a established story. Oh I never stated that it retconned the whole in entire storyline but a lot of events happen differently than they happen in the original storyline which makes it non canon. No what happen when I first started out I was a MK fanboy but as I learned about comic book characters I now see the errors in my thinking and ways, when I first started out I said some really retarded sh%t. I still like Mortal Kombat though and Im still a huge fan, but now I know that not every MK fighter can win every battle thread. Again please post proof of me ever asking for your help outside of this thread. I already posted a scan of Batman easily taking out Mr. Freeze who can use his ice on a higher scale than Sub-Zero , scans were already posted to show that Mr. Freeze was superior unlike the MK trolls who haven't posted anything.
No, you're wrong and I quoted you and you're still trying to lie? lol fail...
Do you listen to yourself, you don't need "help" debating yet just need help explaining something to someone who clearly you can't do or aren't capable of doing so yourself? Right...I already posted your quote in my previous post, that's proof enough...
Actually, they prove my point as they're canon(with the exception of MKDC) but that was just posting a point to show Batman wouldn't be owning Sub...
That does no prove why he's superior much less how he could defeat Sub, they're just random scans you found of Batman beating people WITH prep and not on the spot, this topic is on the spot with NO prep and that means Batman dies...Like I said, what is Batman going to do against being frozen down to the molecular level...nothing, but die.
What you're trying to say is the story isn't retconned but certain elements are changed, that's what I've been saying for like pages now...so now you agree? yes?
I'm a fan of both vid games and DC especially comics, but I also know what's logical and that characters like Batman while far older then Sub-Zero, and naturally will have more "fighting appearances" doesn't equal=better more powerful character in this particular match up, Batman always does well because of his wit, intelligence and most of all prep time...he has NO prep what so ever in this battle which means Sub-Zero will win...
And I never said every MK character should and can win every battle, example Wolverine vs. Baraka, clearly Wolverine would kill him for numerous reasons...but this match up will go to Sub ultimately for reasons already posted..
Mr. Freeze can't use his ice on a higher scale, he needs a suit powered by crystals or fuel cells, he needs a freeze gun and needs to modify a BIG gun to freeze all of gotham, once his helmet breaks he's done...or once his suit is compromised...Sub-Zero is far more powerful with ice and naturally, doesn't need a lame suit to freeze things, sorry but that's incorrect. Sub would kill Freeze easily, what's he going to do to him? Freeze Sub-Zero? lol...while Sub could just break his suit and impale him with ice...game over for Freeze, plus Freeze has given Bats lots of trouble, so Sub would be far worse for him. Sub wins. Mayhem, myself, comicninja etc all posted valid evidence on why Sub would win...
Retard
Post proof of me asking for your help outside of this thread.
I never against for you to debate for me because clearly we are on two different sides. Duh I asked you to explain it to him because I got tried of repeating the same damn thing over again.
How does that prove your point exactly?
MK vs DC non canon, even if this is the MK vs DC version of each character Batman would still win because he defeated Raiden, Liu Kang, Scorpion, and Sub-Zero when all the forces collide against each other at the end.
Any changes that happen in a establish story is a retcon even if it is a small twist and by going off memory MK 9 had alot of major twists in it's story.
You don't read or know anything about comics, Yes Batman more appearance but almost every last one of his feats are superior to anything Batman. Sub-Zero has been over 10 different MK games even if most are non canon he should have a list of pretty descent feats which is not true.
Irrelevant to this fight.
Mr. Freeze froze a city, how he got is powers is completely irrelevant. What has Sub-Zero that has done with his ice that classifies him as powerful other than slow projectile, ice swords that break with a couple of slash, and ice clones that break in one strike. Regardless of what you thing of Mr. Freeze he can still is superior to Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero also doesn't possess the strength to break through bullet proof glass. Batman has taken out Mr. Freeze easily before too. None of yall posted any worth note in this thread and are simply MK trolls who don't use logic.
Mr. Freeze superior Sub-Zero who took several seconds to freeze both Goro and Kintaro
This is what Mr. Freeze can do with a single blast from his freeze ray
Compare it to how long it took Sub-Zero to freeze both Goro and Kintaro and to freeze a freaking chain, Mr. Freeze is superior.
You're still trying to debate after having been proven wrong on practically everything? Jesus, man, give it a rest. Mr. Freeze's best work is freezing over a city. Cool. Sub-Zero's best work is freezing someone at a molecular level, then kicking them, shattering them to pieces. Hell, he's even frozen half their body to the ground, then grabbed them and tore the not-frozen part from the waist. These were fatalities. That scan you posted, nothing flashy. Mr. Freeze fired a blast at a car, in turn causing the street to freeze over and uplift a couple cars. Now you noted things in the video, and I'm here stating why it happened the way it did. Since you played Mortal Kombat 9, isn't that the part just after Sub-Zero fought Sektor, his first fight in his Cyborg form? He wasn't used to combat, nor utilizing his ice powers as a Cyborg. Oh, then again, he also used a single hand to freeze each Goro and Kintaro at the same time, and was seconds quicker freezing Kano. You also have to imagine him freezing STEEL particles, which is almost IMPOSSIBLE to do. But he did it, and shattered the chains. Again, I don't remember Mr. Freeze being able to do anything like that, except point and shoot and hope that it hits.Mr. Freeze froze a city, how he got is powers is completely irrelevant. What has Sub-Zero that has done with his ice that classifies him as powerful other than slow projectile, ice swords that break with a couple of slash, and ice clones that break in one strike. Regardless of what you thing of Mr. Freeze he can still is superior to Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero also doesn't possess the strength to break through bullet proof glass. Batman has taken out Mr. Freeze easily before too. None of yall posted any worth note in this thread and are simply MK trolls who don't use logic.
Mr. Freeze superior Sub-Zero who took several seconds to freeze both Goro and Kintaro
This is what Mr. Freeze can do with a single blast from his freeze ray
Compare it to how long it took Sub-Zero to freeze both Goro and Kintaro and to freeze a freaking chain, Mr. Freeze is superior.
Nick lol, what a child you're calling me a retard yet I'm talking about THIS thread dope...why would I be talking about any other thread? wow....FAIL
Freeze has nothing on Sub, if you really believe that then you're more blind then kenshi..... your post just proves how ignorant you are....
.@The_Mayhem_Theory said:
@nick_hero22 said:Sadly some people are too stupid to comprehend that....but I agree, you're 100% right.You're still trying to debate after having been proven wrong on practically everything? Jesus, man, give it a rest. Mr. Freeze's best work is freezing over a city. Cool. Sub-Zero's best work is freezing someone at a molecular level, then kicking them, shattering them to pieces. Hell, he's even frozen half their body to the ground, then grabbed them and tore the not-frozen part from the waist. These were fatalities. That scan you posted, nothing flashy. Mr. Freeze fired a blast at a car, in turn causing the street to freeze over and uplift a couple cars. Now you noted things in the video, and I'm here stating why it happened the way it did. Since you played Mortal Kombat 9, isn't that the part just after Sub-Zero fought Sektor, his first fight in his Cyborg form? He wasn't used to combat, nor utilizing his ice powers as a Cyborg. Oh, then again, he also used a single hand to freeze each Goro and Kintaro at the same time, and was seconds quicker freezing Kano. You also have to imagine him freezing STEEL particles, which is almost IMPOSSIBLE to do. But he did it, and shattered the chains. Again, I don't remember Mr. Freeze being able to do anything like that, except point and shoot and hope that it hits.Mr. Freeze froze a city, how he got is powers is completely irrelevant. What has Sub-Zero that has done with his ice that classifies him as powerful other than slow projectile, ice swords that break with a couple of slash, and ice clones that break in one strike. Regardless of what you thing of Mr. Freeze he can still is superior to Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero also doesn't possess the strength to break through bullet proof glass. Batman has taken out Mr. Freeze easily before too. None of yall posted any worth note in this thread and are simply MK trolls who don't use logic.
Mr. Freeze superior Sub-Zero who took several seconds to freeze both Goro and Kintaro
This is what Mr. Freeze can do with a single blast from his freeze ray
Compare it to how long it took Sub-Zero to freeze both Goro and Kintaro and to freeze a freaking chain, Mr. Freeze is superior.
@nick_hero22
said:You're still trying to debate after having been proven wrong on practically everything? Jesus, man, give it a rest. Mr. Freeze's best work is freezing over a city. Cool. Sub-Zero's best work is freezing someone at a molecular level, then kicking them, shattering them to pieces. Hell, he's even frozen half their body to the ground, then grabbed them and tore the not-frozen part from the waist. These were fatalities. That scan you posted, nothing flashy. Mr. Freeze fired a blast at a car, in turn causing the street to freeze over and uplift a couple cars. Now you noted things in the video, and I'm here stating why it happened the way it did. Since you played Mortal Kombat 9, isn't that the part just after Sub-Zero fought Sektor, his first fight in his Cyborg form? He wasn't used to combat, nor utilizing his ice powers as a Cyborg. Oh, then again, he also used a single hand to freeze each Goro and Kintaro at the same time, and was seconds quicker freezing Kano. You also have to imagine him freezing STEEL particles, which is almost IMPOSSIBLE to do. But he did it, and shattered the chains. Again, I don't remember Mr. Freeze being able to do anything like that, except point and shoot and hope that it hits.Mr. Freeze froze a city, how he got is powers is completely irrelevant. What has Sub-Zero that has done with his ice that classifies him as powerful other than slow projectile, ice swords that break with a couple of slash, and ice clones that break in one strike. Regardless of what you thing of Mr. Freeze he can still is superior to Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero also doesn't possess the strength to break through bullet proof glass. Batman has taken out Mr. Freeze easily before too. None of yall posted any worth note in this thread and are simply MK trolls who don't use logic.
Mr. Freeze superior Sub-Zero who took several seconds to freeze both Goro and Kintaro
This is what Mr. Freeze can do with a single blast from his freeze ray
Compare it to how long it took Sub-Zero to freeze both Goro and Kintaro and to freeze a freaking chain, Mr. Freeze is superior.
Have deal with this foolishness again, When has Sub-Zero froze someone's molecules? Please post some proof instead of making stuff and giving information from wikipedias. The only Sub-Zero has done is froze someone solid with the help of the dragon medallion and that's nothing compared to freezing a whole city solid. The scan I posted shows why Mr. Freeze is superior I can post proof of all my claims the same can't be said for you haven't any proof for anything other than 3 non canon unimpressive scans. Where is it stated the Cyber Sub-Zero isn't use to his cyborg body, if you played the game you would know this is never stated or implied in the story. If you watched the video Sub-Zero had to use both hands to freeze them and to freeze a chain which took several seconds to feeze. Where did he freeze steel particles? I don't know why Im debating against someone who lied and claim that Sub-Zero was on par with Iceman and then lied and said that Sub-Zero with the dragon medallion was omnipotent.
Oh when have you ever proven me wrong about anything?
freezing isn't the only thing sub zero has going for him...
he's also an elite assassin, trained from childhood, in peak physical condition, extremely skilled in h2h...in addition he has freezing powers I fail to see how batman outclasses him...
These is coming from a guy that thinks that Scorpion can beat Current Iron Fist. Sometimes people refuse to see logic. I have proven that Batman is a far better fighter, physically superior to Sub-Zero, and has gadgets that can counter Sub-Zero's powers along with other things. So yes Sub-Zero is outclassed by Batman in this fight. Do I need to post scans again?
freezing isn't the only thing sub zero has going for him...Pretty much, and freeze needs his dumb toys in order to do anything...you see him in the cartoon series? LMAO, he got owned by a cup of soup....I'm so sure Sub-Zero is weaker then Freeze...when pigs fly. Good points.
he's also an elite assassin, trained from childhood, in peak physical condition, extremely skilled in h2h...in addition he has freezing powers I fail to see how batman outclasses him...
Gets defeated by a cup of soup...by batman once his glass helmet breaks, he's done and can barely move...
Utterly powerless without his dumb suit.... and he needs to be kept in a cool environment or he'll die as his bio even confirms.
( 1. ) Are you seriously asking me to prove something that you, as a Mortal Kombat fan, already know about and have seen hundreds of times? ( 2. ) No proof is necessary, and I don't recall ever using information from Wikipedias. All abilities from Sub-Zero are learned through playing the game, something you claim to know so much of. ( 3. ) Using the Dragon Medallion isn't the only time he's frozen someone solid. Are you insane? Are you just so wildly desperate and exhausted from the debate that you're now making things up? Also, it's entirely greater than whatever Mr. Freeze has done, and practically everyone on this battle agrees with me. You don't see them arguing -my- facts, do you? ( 4. ) Actually, the scan you posted shows why Mr. Freeze is inferior. Please, post more scans to which you believe would give Mr. Freeze the benefit of the battle. ( 5. ) Let's see... Jax, with the help of someone else I'm forgetting, reprogrammed Cyborg Sub-Zero, before he had fought anyone. And that's when he went to the city and defeated Sektor in the subway station. It isn't about being told that he was used to his new body as opposed to thinking he isn't by the introduction into that part of the story as implied. ( 6. ) Yeah, he used both hands, but one hand to freeze Goro and Kintaro at the same time. And then he used both hands with a faster rate of freezing on Kano. Also, chains are usually made up of steel (a very tough type of metal), and steel particles (generally most hard forms of metal particles) are impossible to freeze at a molecular level. Is this too scientific for you? Should I dumb it down for you to understand clearly? ( 7. ) I never claimed Sub-Zero was on par with Iceman, nor did I say Sub-Zero with the Dragon Medallion was omnipotent. Don't mix me up with other people. ( 8. ) Oh, when have I proven you wrong? Well, it seems just about everything I've said so far has people agreeing with me, people who can actually provide true information about the games and characters. These same people are also backing me up instead of you.1. When has Sub-Zero froze someone's molecules?
2. Please post some proof instead of making stuff and giving information from wikipedias.
3. The only Sub-Zero has done is froze someone solid with the help of the dragon medallion and that's nothing compared to freezing a whole city solid.
4. The scan I posted shows why Mr. Freeze is superior I can post proof of all my claims the same can't be said for you haven't any proof for anything other than 3 non canon unimpressive scans. 5. Where is it stated the Cyber Sub-Zero isn't use to his cyborg body, if you played the game you would know this is never stated or implied in the story.
6. If you watched the video Sub-Zero had to use both hands to freeze them and to freeze a chain which took several seconds to feeze. Where did he freeze steel particles?
7. I don't know why Im debating against someone who lied and claim that Sub-Zero was on par with Iceman and then lied and said that Sub-Zero with the dragon medallion was omnipotent.
8. Oh when have you ever proven me wrong about anything?
I'm still curious if anybody knows how long it took Freeze to freeze Gotham.
Also, Batman's gadgets would be pretty useless if his arms are frozen solid, ie. the fight becomes h2h while Batman is beating on Sub-Zero, he slips an ice clone into one of his parries or blocks. Regardless of the clone shattering with one hit Batman would be frozen solid.
Also, Batman's gadgets would be pretty useless if his arms are frozen solid, ie. the fight becomes h2h while Batman is beating on Sub-Zero, he slips an ice clone into one of his parries or blocks. Regardless of the clone shattering with one hit Batman would be frozen solid.
@nick_hero22 said:( 1. ) Are you seriously asking me to prove something that you, as a Mortal Kombat fan, already know about and have seen hundreds of times? ( 2. ) No proof is necessary, and I don't recall ever using information from Wikipedias. All abilities from Sub-Zero are learned through playing the game, something you claim to know so much of. ( 3. ) Using the Dragon Medallion isn't the only time he's frozen someone solid. Are you insane? Are you just so wildly desperate and exhausted from the debate that you're now making things up? Also, it's entirely greater than whatever Mr. Freeze has done, and practically everyone on this battle agrees with me. You don't see them arguing -my- facts, do you? ( 4. ) Actually, the scan you posted shows why Mr. Freeze is inferior. Please, post more scans to which you believe would give Mr. Freeze the benefit of the battle. ( 5. ) Let's see... Jax, with the help of someone else I'm forgetting, reprogrammed Cyborg Sub-Zero, before he had fought anyone. And that's when he went to the city and defeated Sektor in the subway station. It isn't about being told that he was used to his new body as opposed to thinking he isn't by the introduction into that part of the story as implied. ( 6. ) Yeah, he used both hands, but one hand to freeze Goro and Kintaro at the same time. And then he used both hands with a faster rate of freezing on Kano. Also, chains are usually made up of steel (a very tough type of metal), and steel particles (generally most hard forms of metal particles) are impossible to freeze at a molecular level. Is this too scientific for you? Should I dumb it down for you to understand clearly? ( 7. ) I never claimed Sub-Zero was on par with Iceman, nor did I say Sub-Zero with the Dragon Medallion was omnipotent. Don't mix me up with other people. ( 8. ) Oh, when have I proven you wrong? Well, it seems just about everything I've said so far has people agreeing with me, people who can actually provide true information about the games and characters. These same people are also backing me up instead of you.
1. When has Sub-Zero froze someone's molecules?
2. Please post some proof instead of making stuff and giving information from wikipedias.
3. The only Sub-Zero has done is froze someone solid with the help of the dragon medallion and that's nothing compared to freezing a whole city solid.
4. The scan I posted shows why Mr. Freeze is superior I can post proof of all my claims the same can't be said for you haven't any proof for anything other than 3 non canon unimpressive scans. 5. Where is it stated the Cyber Sub-Zero isn't use to his cyborg body, if you played the game you would know this is never stated or implied in the story.
6. If you watched the video Sub-Zero had to use both hands to freeze them and to freeze a chain which took several seconds to feeze. Where did he freeze steel particles?
7. I don't know why Im debating against someone who lied and claim that Sub-Zero was on par with Iceman and then lied and said that Sub-Zero with the dragon medallion was omnipotent.
8. Oh when have you ever proven me wrong about anything?
1. Ok then Sub-Zero has never frozen someone molecules because you can't proof he has ever done that before.
2. When I asked you where is it stated that the Dragon Medallion made Sub-Zero omnipotent you said you got thte information from wikipedia. Proof is necessary.
3. Please post proof of Sub-Zero freezing someone solid without the Dragon Medallion.
4. How does my scan show that Mr. Freeze is inferior? When you post proof of Sub-Zero freezing someone molecules then I will believe you.
5. I like I said before please post proof that is was implied that Cyber Sub-Zero wasn't use to his new body.
6. It still took longer for him to freeze with both Goro and Kintaro and they were only flash frozen. How is flash freeze a chain greater than the scan I posted for Sub-Zero. And where is it stated or said that he froze steel particles.
7. You still argeed with the person who said it.
8. You have been wrong about everything you have claim because their isn't any evidence or proof to what you have claim.
Sub-Zero's ending is non canon because he isn't human anymore. Fail equals fail.
I'm still curious if anybody knows how long it took Freeze to freeze Gotham.
Also, Batman's gadgets would be pretty useless if his arms are frozen solid, ie. the fight becomes h2h while Batman is beating on Sub-Zero, he slips an ice clone into one of his parries or blocks. Regardless of the clone shattering with one hit Batman would be frozen solid.
Probably about a couple of hours. Gotham is city a huge city though.
Batman would easily deduce that Sub-Zero is a ice manipulator, so the only thing has to do is cover the bridge in miniature explosion and as soon Sub-Zero they will explode and before Sub-Zero gets up from the explosion Batman goes in for the KO.
I'm guessing that the comic never specified the amount of time then? It could have been an hour or could have started as soon as Batman left the scene up until Batman reappeared, depending on the device he used. The reason that I brought this up was given the time and motive it might be possible (for Sub-Zero) to pull off the same feat.Probably about a couple of hours. Gotham is city a huge city though. Batman would easily deduce that Sub-Zero is a ice manipulator, so the only thing has to do is cover the bridge in miniature explosion and as soon Sub-Zero they will explode and before Sub-Zero gets up from the explosion Batman goes in for the KO.
Just looked back at the scan of that, sweet gadget btw. I assumed that morals would be active during this fight considering it has not been stated otherwise, so in that case wouldn't Batman be kind of reluctant to use the explosives considering the amount of civilians on the bridge? If, for whatever reason, the bridge is empty and he does cover the bridge with explosives wouldn't that effectively stalemate the fight? Neither one would be able to move without detonating an explosive, setting off a chain of explosions that would take out both opponents.
On a side note, does he always carry mini bombs with him? I think that would be pretty reckless considering the sensitivity of the explosives and the amount of acrobatic feats he does. Lol.
Edit: I'm not saying that he doesn't. I just think it's rather reckless.
( 1. ) Wow. Just... wow. I'm holding back all my insults because... wow. It's amazing that a fan like you would just... ignore one of Sub-Zero's fatalities like that. Pat yourself on the back, bud.1. Ok then Sub-Zero has never frozen someone molecules because you can't proof he has ever done that before.
2. When I asked you where is it stated that the Dragon Medallion made Sub-Zero omnipotent you said you got thte information from wikipedia. Proof is necessary.
3. Please post proof of Sub-Zero freezing someone solid without the Dragon Medallion.
4. How does my scan show that Mr. Freeze is inferior? When you post proof of Sub-Zero freezing someone molecules then I will believe you.
5. I like I said before please post proof that is was implied that Cyber Sub-Zero wasn't use to his new body.
6. It still took longer for him to freeze with both Goro and Kintaro and they were only flash frozen. How is flash freeze a chain greater than the scan I posted for Sub-Zero. And where is it stated or said that he froze steel particles.
7. You still argeed with the person who said it.
8. You have been wrong about everything you have claim because their isn't any evidence or proof to what you have claim.
Sub-Zero's ending is non canon because he isn't human anymore. Fail equals fail.
( 2. ) Are you that blind? I've said nothing about the Dragon Medallion making him omnipotent. That was MK and Death_and_Decay chatting back and forth about Shao Khan. Read thoroughly next time.
( 3. ) Refer to #1. As I said before, I don't need to show proof when it's been proven as one of Sub-Zero's fatalities.
( 4. ) Refer to #1 and #3. Apparently, you're no fan of Mortal Kombat if you keep wanting proof of Sub-Zero freezing someone at a molecular level and then shattering them to pieces.
( 5. ) It's not a matter of proof, it's a matter of perception. When you played the game, did you think Cyborg Sub-Zero was automatically superior with his new form? Or, like me, did you think he was inexperienced during his match with Sektor in the subway station? Either way, it doesn't need to be proven with factual evidence. I repeat, it's a matter of perception.
( 6. ) Well, no duh. Did you see how far apart they were? It's just amazing that with how powerful Goro and Kintaro seem to be, Cyborg Sub-Zero was still able to freeze them in place, using one hand a piece, and then instantly freeze Kano the second he sees it happen. It didn't take as long as you're assuming it was.
( 7. ) Alright, smart guy. Since you seem to know all the answers, and think that what you say is fact, why don't you tell me what chains are made of? If they were toy/plastic/rubber chains, you think military wouldn't be able to break free? Cyborg Sub-Zero flash freezes the chains, yes, but did you catch that EVERY piece became brittle and fell apart from his smack? Of course you did, since you've played the game and watched the videos that were posted.
( 8. ) Oh really? Then how come you're the ONLY ONE claiming that I've been wrong on everything? You're so delusional, kid.
Sub-Zero's ending is canon, as it's part of the canonical storyline. Win equals win for me!
Batman all day. LOL.
Fail
How is Sub-Zero ending canon when he isn't human anymore? Not all ending are canon to the story. So in that case Kratos's ending must be canon. Everything else was irrelevant and made no sense.
OH. MY. GOD.
its been nearly 24 full pages of everyone arguing against one dude.
as for my opinion....
Subs can freeze people solid if they so much as touch on of his ice clones, yes? So, it would make logical sense that he could freeze people if they touched him. SO. It goes to follow that if bats landed a blow on subs while he's in "freeze anyone that touches me mode", he'd freeze solid.
end
THAT'S WHAT I SAID!!!!!!!!..... but this guy is just impossible and he'll ignore anything that proves him wrong.OH. MY. GOD.
its been nearly 24 full pages of everyone arguing against one dude.
as for my opinion....
Subs can freeze people solid if they so much as touch on of his ice clones, yes? So, it would make logical sense that he could freeze people if they touched him. SO. It goes to follow that if bats landed a blow on subs while he's in "freeze anyone that touches me mode", he'd freeze solid. end
Sub-Zero only flash freezes, If Sub-Zero could freeze people solid how did Kano, Goro, and Kintaro escape being frozen? And if he froze that chain solid why didn't it completely shatter into tiny bits?
@phliuy: Sub-Zero only flash freezes, If Sub-Zero could freeze people solid how did Kano, Goro, and Kintaro escape being frozen? And if he froze that chain solid why didn't it completely shatter into tiny bits?Sub Zero only flash freezes? Dude, like, what? You know those times when something is so stupid that you just don't know what to say? This is one of those times. Those characters didn't because video games work like that. Think about Ermac's abilities. Could anyone really beat him? and yet...
@phliuy: Sub-Zero only flash freezes, If Sub-Zero could freeze people solid how did Kano, Goro, and Kintaro escape being frozen? And if he froze that chain solid why didn't it completely shatter into tiny bits?First off, I'd like to commend you for defending batman for all this time. Takes guts.
onto your post:
what???? I....didn't mention kano, goro, or kintaro. What chain? whats going on?
I'm pretty sure flash freezing means you can freeze something to your core...so i'm not getting what you're saying. Were you recapping what i said?
also, what is your opinion on a matchup between spider-man and batman, both with no prep time, in a random encounter in a colisseum?
@SpidermanWins: I'm going to determine if he's worth arguing based on his response to my last question
what???? I....didn't mention kano, goro, or kintaro. What chain? whats going on?lol
When you flash freeze isn't the same as being completely frozen, Flash freeze is kind of like being lightly froze but not completely frozen.
@nick_hero22 said:Sub Zero only flash freezes? Dude, like, what? You know those times when something is so stupid that you just don't know what to say? This is one of those times. Those characters didn't because video games work like that. Think about Ermac's abilities. Could anyone really beat him? and yet...
@phliuy: Sub-Zero only flash freezes, If Sub-Zero could freeze people solid how did Kano, Goro, and Kintaro escape being frozen? And if he froze that chain solid why didn't it completely shatter into tiny bits?
Would you like to show proof of Sub-Zero freeze someone solid. Because the only time I have seen Sub-Zero freeze someone solid was in MK Deception when he had the Dragon Medallion. If Sub-Zero could freeze people solid without it had did Kano, Goro, and Kintaro breakout of his ice?
flash freezing is basically freezing something so fast that physics can't catch up, lol.
We're using the wrong term. What subs does is encase his target in ice. Not sure there's a word for that. BUT. his signature fatality is freezing someone solid and shattering the everloving snot out of them
you can see it at 20 seconds, 45, and other various ones, too. yes, I know, everyone in the mk universe is getting their spines ripped out or tossed into acid every 30 seconds, but he's also done it in the comic version. There was an image of it earlier in the thread.
I doubt that batman could break out an armor suit of ice.
The definition Im using http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/flash-freeze
Only MK 9 fatalities are canon since we are using Sub-Zero from MK 9. As seen in Sub-Zero cutscenes he rarely freezes someone and it takes forever for him to do it. (I was wrong he froze someone solid during a cutscene in MK 9 but it still took awhile for him to completely freeze them solid)
@nick_hero22: yeahhhhh that just sent me to a page saying that it doesn't exist. But the definition was in my last post. we shouldn't call what he usually does flash freezing, as it's incorrect. we could jsut say he encases them in ice. he does this as one of his moves. He creates an ice clone, and if the opponent touches it he gets encased in ice. So, if a clone could do it, he should be able to do it too. Which would naturally give subzero the time he needed to completely freeze batman to the core.
I call it flash freezing because they are not completely frozen, but I will use the term semi frozen now. Sub-Zero has only froze someone solid once in one of the cutscenes which took him awhile to do. Ice clones don't move so they are avoidable.
You just showed yourself...@SpidermanWins said:
Would you like to show proof of Sub-Zero freeze someone solid. Because the only time I have seen Sub-Zero freeze someone solid was in MK Deception when he had the Dragon Medallion. If Sub-Zero could freeze people solid without it had did Kano, Goro, and Kintaro breakout of his ice?
@nick_hero22
said:Sub Zero only flash freezes? Dude, like, what? You know those times when something is so stupid that you just don't know what to say? This is one of those times. Those characters didn't because video games work like that. Think about Ermac's abilities. Could anyone really beat him? and yet...@phliuy
: Sub-Zero only flash freezes, If Sub-Zero could freeze people solid how did Kano, Goro, and Kintaro escape being frozen? And if he froze that chain solid why didn't it completely shatter into tiny bits?
Well Batman is intelligent enough to deduce that Sub-Zero is a ice manipulator (The cold he blows out of his breathe), so he will most likely use explosion on Sub-Zero or throw a couple of smoke bombs and use stealth and drop Sub-Zero with a nerve strike.
Well Batman is intelligent enough to deduce that Sub-Zero is a ice manipulator (The cold he blows out of his breathe), so he will most likely use explosion on Sub-Zero or throw a couple of smoke bombs and use stealth and drop Sub-Zero with a nerve strike.
Considering that Sub-Zero is now cybernetic he does not breath. Right?
You still have not answered my last set of questions either.
@phliuy said:OK, dude stop yourself and think about everything Sub-Zero has going for him. He has the Dragon Medallion which greatly enchances his abilities to "levels he never thought possible, He has the Kori Blade, He can form ice spikes, daggers, suits of armor, needles, balls, and bombs. He can turn people to ice by touch. He has trained since birth and has nearly auto-pilot reaction time and perfected form. He has the strength to rip someone's spine and skull out of their body WITH ONE HAND. He can simply breathe ice. He can form dopplegangers at every last second that instantly freeze the opponent. He can go into the ground as ice and come up behind the opponent. There are so many things he can do. One of those AT SOME POINT will slow Batman down enough for him to freeze him in some way. Once that happens its game over for Batman.I call it flash freezing because they are not completely frozen, but I will use the term semi frozen now. Sub-Zero has only froze someone solid once in one of the cutscenes which took him awhile to do. Ice clones don't move so they are avoidable.
@nick_hero22: yeahhhhh that just sent me to a page saying that it doesn't exist. But the definition was in my last post. we shouldn't call what he usually does flash freezing, as it's incorrect. we could jsut say he encases them in ice. he does this as one of his moves. He creates an ice clone, and if the opponent touches it he gets encased in ice. So, if a clone could do it, he should be able to do it too. Which would naturally give subzero the time he needed to completely freeze batman to the core.
This isn't Cyber Sub-Zero, Ice Clones are dodgeable and so are Sub-Zero's projectiles. I already posted scans of gadgets that could counter Sub-Zero's ice.
All fatalities are canon because he is capable of any of them at that time anyway. I doubt he forgot how to do those things.@phliuy:
The definition Im using http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/flash-freeze Only MK 9 fatalities are canon since we are using Sub-Zero from MK 9. As seen in Sub-Zero cutscenes he rarely freezes someone and it takes forever for him to do it. (I was wrong he froze someone solid during a cutscene in MK 9 but it still took awhile for him to completely freeze them solid)
@nick_hero22 said:OK, dude stop yourself and think about everything Sub-Zero has going for him. He has the Dragon Medallion which greatly enchances his abilities to "levels he never thought possible, He has the Kori Blade, He can form ice spikes, daggers, suits of armor, needles, balls, and bombs. He can turn people to ice by touch. He has trained since birth and has nearly auto-pilot reaction time and perfected form. He has the strength to rip someone's spine and skull out of their body WITH ONE HAND. He can simply breathe ice. He can form dopplegangers at every last second that instantly freeze the opponent. He can go into the ground as ice and come up behind the opponent. There are so many things he can do. One of those AT SOME POINT will slow Batman down enough for him to freeze him in some way. Once that happens its game over for Batman.
@phliuy said:I call it flash freezing because they are not completely frozen, but I will use the term semi frozen now. Sub-Zero has only froze someone solid once in one of the cutscenes which took him awhile to do. Ice clones don't move so they are avoidable.
@nick_hero22: yeahhhhh that just sent me to a page saying that it doesn't exist. But the definition was in my last post. we shouldn't call what he usually does flash freezing, as it's incorrect. we could jsut say he encases them in ice. he does this as one of his moves. He creates an ice clone, and if the opponent touches it he gets encased in ice. So, if a clone could do it, he should be able to do it too. Which would naturally give subzero the time he needed to completely freeze batman to the core.
This is Sub-Zero from MK 9, Sub-Zero doesn't have the Dragon Medallion or Ancestral Armor in this fight. Sub-Zero wasn't capable forming a Kori Blade in MK 9 nor did he create bombs. He can semi freeze someone with when he covers himself with ice but I don't remember him freeze someone with a touch. Batman can dodge majority of all of Sub-Zero attacks and the one he can dodge he can simply use his gadgets.
Ok I note the first part but I doubt he just forgot all of this other moves. If that's what you're saying then you definitely lack a sense of logic. Just because The Emperor never used his lightsaber in Return of the Jedi doesn't mean he can't use one y'know.@SpidermanWins said:
This is Sub-Zero from MK 9, Sub-Zero doesn't have the Dragon Medallion or Ancestral Armor in this fight. Sub-Zero wasn't capable forming a Kori Blade in MK 9 nor did he create bombs. He can semi freeze someone with when he covers himself with ice but I don't remember him freeze someone with a touch. Batman can dodge majority of all of Sub-Zero attacks and the one he can dodge he can simply use his gadgets.
@nick_hero22 said:OK, dude stop yourself and think about everything Sub-Zero has going for him. He has the Dragon Medallion which greatly enchances his abilities to "levels he never thought possible, He has the Kori Blade, He can form ice spikes, daggers, suits of armor, needles, balls, and bombs. He can turn people to ice by touch. He has trained since birth and has nearly auto-pilot reaction time and perfected form. He has the strength to rip someone's spine and skull out of their body WITH ONE HAND. He can simply breathe ice. He can form dopplegangers at every last second that instantly freeze the opponent. He can go into the ground as ice and come up behind the opponent. There are so many things he can do. One of those AT SOME POINT will slow Batman down enough for him to freeze him in some way. Once that happens its game over for Batman.@phliuy
said:I call it flash freezing because they are not completely frozen, but I will use the term semi frozen now. Sub-Zero has only froze someone solid once in one of the cutscenes which took him awhile to do. Ice clones don't move so they are avoidable.
@nick_hero22
: yeahhhhh that just sent me to a page saying that it doesn't exist. But the definition was in my last post. we shouldn't call what he usually does flash freezing, as it's incorrect. we could jsut say he encases them in ice. he does this as one of his moves. He creates an ice clone, and if the opponent touches it he gets encased in ice. So, if a clone could do it, he should be able to do it too. Which would naturally give subzero the time he needed to completely freeze batman to the core.
@Gothicowboy: This isn't Cyber Sub-Zero, Ice Clones are dodgeable and so are Sub-Zero's projectiles. I already posted scans of gadgets that could counter Sub-Zero's ice.Wait. Aren't you the one that said, " Sub-Zero's ending is non canon because he isn't human anymore." So, if he's not human anymore and he's not cyber Sub-Zero who are we talking about? Sorry, I got lost somewhere along the way...
I didn't say he couldn't dodge them, although it can be tough to pull back out of a kick once you're half-way through. I saw the scans before I posted. It is kind of null and void if he's already encased in ice though.
@nick_hero22 said:He only does it if it fits in his favor you see... after it doesn't he changes the story and it ends up making no sense.@Gothicowboy: This isn't Cyber Sub-Zero, Ice Clones are dodgeable and so are Sub-Zero's projectiles. I already posted scans of gadgets that could counter Sub-Zero's ice.Wait. Aren't you the one that said, " Sub-Zero's ending is non canon because he isn't human anymore." So, if he's not human anymore and he's not cyber Sub-Zero who are we talking about? Sorry, I got lost somewhere along the way... I didn't say he couldn't dodge them, although it can be tough to pull back out of a kick once you're half-way through. I saw the scans before I posted. It is kind of null and void if he's already encased in ice though.
@nick_hero22 said:True, but his name is subzero. Also he tends to announce himself by saying things like "i'm gonna freeze you now" or something to that effect :)Well Batman is intelligent enough to deduce that Sub-Zero is a ice manipulator (The cold he blows out of his breathe), so he will most likely use explosion on Sub-Zero or throw a couple of smoke bombs and use stealth and drop Sub-Zero with a nerve strike.Considering that Sub-Zero is now cybernetic he does not breath. Right? You still have not answered my last set of questions either.
@nick_hero22: Nerve strikes don't actually exist, in the "drop someone immediately with it" sense. They mostly just hurt a lot. They certainly don't exist in the MK world. A trained warrior would not be downed by a strike to a nerve bundle, at any rate. Also a nerve strike would require batman to touch subzero, thus still freezing him
I would also like to take this time to discredit batman's mastery of 127 different martial arts. Not saying that he doesn't know them, because I can't argue with facts, but whoever made that statistic is obviously clinically insane. First off, you really don't need that many. I'd estimate that if you mastered 4 or 5 martial arts, you would have 95% of the collective moveset for the rest of the other martial arts. second, 127 different martial arts? that's just ridiculous. assume batman is around 40, and he started training around 10. that's 30 years to learn to become a master of the different styles. That comes out to about 4 different martial arts a year. it takes 10,000 hours of practice to master something. BUT, this is the Goshdanged batman we're talking about, so lets say it would only take him 2000 hours, or five times less than a normal person. 4 martial arts would take about 8000 hours. a year contains about 9000 hours. this comes out to about 22 hours a day of practice. This leaves roughly zero time for batman to do, you know. batman stuff. end rant.
but onto the important part of all this. Batman may have a mastery of all these martial arts, but really, he only uses a few of them. He mostly uses kickboxing with some judo thrown in if the writer is feeling snazzy. A trained mixed martial artist could do many of the feats that batman has done. Maybe i should go make that thread....
but anyways, You can't say that sub zero has no feats of martial skill. he has trained all his life, which has afforded him complete mastery of shotokan karate. this would be just as useful during fisticuffs as batman's various hand to hand combat styles. No matter how many styles you know, you can only use one at a time. Look at any mixed martial arts fight. At any time, a fighter will have knowledge of muay thai, brazilian jiu-jitsu, and wrestling, but when they're standing they're doing muay thai. If they're close, they're wrestling. If they're on the ground, they're doing BJJ. BJJ has no use whatsoever when they're standing. Likewise, roughly 80 of batman's fighting styles are completely useless at any given moment. And the other 40 can be boiled down to about 3 styles.
so in the end, its one fighting master versus another. One has a bunch of gadgets, the other can manipulate ice. My vote goes to the ice master
@SpidermanWins said:If he can create clones that can instantly semi freeze someone, it follows that he himself should be able to freeze someone too. here's another way of thinking about it. I have a knife. I can throw it at you, and impale you. or, i can hold onto the knife, and just stab you with it. Get it?This is Sub-Zero from MK 9, Sub-Zero doesn't have the Dragon Medallion or Ancestral Armor in this fight. Sub-Zero wasn't capable forming a Kori Blade in MK 9 nor did he create bombs. He can semi freeze someone with when he covers himself with ice but I don't remember him freeze someone with a touch. Batman can dodge majority of all of Sub-Zero attacks and the one he can dodge he can simply use his gadgets.
@nick_hero22 said:OK, dude stop yourself and think about everything Sub-Zero has going for him. He has the Dragon Medallion which greatly enchances his abilities to "levels he never thought possible, He has the Kori Blade, He can form ice spikes, daggers, suits of armor, needles, balls, and bombs. He can turn people to ice by touch. He has trained since birth and has nearly auto-pilot reaction time and perfected form. He has the strength to rip someone's spine and skull out of their body WITH ONE HAND. He can simply breathe ice. He can form dopplegangers at every last second that instantly freeze the opponent. He can go into the ground as ice and come up behind the opponent. There are so many things he can do. One of those AT SOME POINT will slow Batman down enough for him to freeze him in some way. Once that happens its game over for Batman.
@phliuy said:I call it flash freezing because they are not completely frozen, but I will use the term semi frozen now. Sub-Zero has only froze someone solid once in one of the cutscenes which took him awhile to do. Ice clones don't move so they are avoidable.
@nick_hero22: yeahhhhh that just sent me to a page saying that it doesn't exist. But the definition was in my last post. we shouldn't call what he usually does flash freezing, as it's incorrect. we could jsut say he encases them in ice. he does this as one of his moves. He creates an ice clone, and if the opponent touches it he gets encased in ice. So, if a clone could do it, he should be able to do it too. Which would naturally give subzero the time he needed to completely freeze batman to the core.
Yeah, you're right. You failed, so get over it. Anyway, Sub-Zero's person endings for regular and Cyborg form, are not canon as they don't relate to the storyline procedure. Yes, I agree that not all endings are canon, either, so long as they're personal character endings. And is everything else irrelevant and make no sense because YOU refuse to be wrong?@The_Mayhem_Theory: Fail How is Sub-Zero ending canon when he isn't human anymore? Not all ending are canon to the story. So in that case Kratos's ending must be canon. Everything else was irrelevant and made no sense.
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